What's more accurate?

[BigC847]

I'm gonna place a cache here in the next couple days and I was curious as to which would be more accurate; my GPSr or google earth. The cache will be in an area very distinguishable from the satellite. So should I use my gps coordinates or the google earth coordinates after I place the pin on the exact location?

[+Chokecherry]

Did you read the guidelines for placing a cache? You should probably do that before placing your cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

[Andronicus]

google earth is very good in most places, but very bad in some. It is usefull as a handy double check.

[Pup Patrol]

Did you read the guidelines for placing a cache? You should probably do that before placing your cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

+1

[BigC847]

Did you read the guidelines for placing a cache? You should probably do that before placing your cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Don't get nervous about the noobness. I'm well aware of the guidelines, read through most of thus forum, the GONIL forum, watched a zillion YouTube videos, and read the gidlines again. So I've decided to do a LPC infront of a police station across from a playground and chose a special container that's gray, square, with a watch and some colorful wires...........Lol, that was a joke. When I do something, I do it right.

[+Chokecherry]

The answer you seek is in the guidelines. I'm not concerned about your newbie-ness. Just reinforcing that the answer is right there.

[BigC847]

Thanks Andronicus, that's a very smart idea!

[GOF and Bacall]

What GPS do you have? I have found the best results are to let my GPS average the coordinates for me.

[BigC847]

Sorry Choke, i didn't mean to be so defensive, but what "noob" wouldn't be though after reading some of the posts on the forum? I know, it only takes a few bad apples.........

 

Gof, Since i did just start last week, i have to save up for some better hardware. For now I'm using a combo of my iPhone w/ Groundspeak app and a garmin eTrex H. I bought the Garmin 10min after going for my first cache in the woods with only my iPhone (I'm surprised i had any hair left by the time i found the cache!)

[GOF and Bacall]

The Etrex H should have a feature to average the coordinates for you. Go with that.

[+Coldgears]

I'm gonna place a cache here in the next couple days and I was curious as to which would be more accurate; my GPSr or google earth. The cache will be in an area very distinguishable from the satellite. So should I use my gps coordinates or the google earth coordinates after I place the pin on the exact location?

Hide it whichever way you feel comfortable. If it's distinguishable with google maps it probably won't make much of a difference.

[GOF and Bacall]

I'm gonna place a cache here in the next couple days and I was curious as to which would be more accurate; my GPSr or google earth. The cache will be in an area very distinguishable from the satellite. So should I use my gps coordinates or the google earth coordinates after I place the pin on the exact location?

Hide it whichever way you feel comfortable. If it's distinguishable with google maps it probably won't make much of a difference.

 

Not the case in all locations. Google maps have been known to be off by a large margin some places and dead on elsewhere.

[+narcissa]

When I do something, I do it right.

 

Then your thorough reading of the guidelines should have answered your question.

[knowschad]

The bush that several responses have been beating around is that the guidelines state that the cache coordinates must be obtained with a GPS unit. Caches do not need to be found with one, but they must be hidden with one. Does that answer your question?

[BigC847]

Now that I'm home with my computer and not on my iPhone at work, Let me elaborate.

 

Hi! My name is Chris, I'm 30, and I am a brand new geocacher! While I have only found 7 caches thus far, I know that I could do a great job of hiding one. I grew up in a rural area and my "yard" was the woods. When I was young, my friends and I would hide "treasure" in the woods and draw simple treasure maps using drawings and terms such as "from the top of the big dune walk 15 paces north"....we would do crazy things like carve out logs and hide things in them, or tie things in trees with string. my best was when i carved a hole in a tree big enough to hold 3 G.I. Joes and a couple Hotwheels cars and placed the bark back over it (I actually found them again 17 years later,kinda, but i needed a ladder and found the front end of a Hotwheels car sticking out of the tree, and now part of the tree!)..........It was a great time. And this is what I think of every time I'm walking around with a GPS in my hand.

 

I have read and understood the guidelines, with the exception of one thing. While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth. Which leads me to the question........Which is a more accurate way to determine coordinates, My eTrex GPSr or Google?

 

Of course i got my answer for the preceding already, Thank You, I just thought i would take the time to phrase my question in a way that would have gotten a better response.

 

 

When I do something, I do it right.

 

Then your thorough reading of the guidelines should have answered your question.

 

Oh Snap! U got me good! How bout you read your next credit card agreement 3 times and let me berate you when you cant remember the policy on international frequent flyer mile black out dates. Sheesh!

[+dfx]

While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth.

that's usually those people who used a smartphone to get their coordinates (or screwed up in some other way - it's perfectly possible to get bad coordinates from a good GPSr too), then learnt from the cachers who went for the cache that the coords were bad, and then tried to make it "better" through google without revisiting their cache site. sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

Edited September 16, 2010 by dfx

[+LukeTrocity]

While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth.

that's usually those people who used a smartphone to get their coordinates (or screwed up in some other way - it's perfectly possible to get bad coordinates from a good GPSr too), then learnt from the cachers who went for the cache that the coords were bad, and then tried to make it "better" through google without revisiting their cache site. sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

[+dfx]

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

so 10% of the caches placed with it would have off coordinates.

[knowschad]

While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth.

that's usually those people who used a smartphone to get their coordinates (or screwed up in some other way - it's perfectly possible to get bad coordinates from a good GPSr too), then learnt from the cachers who went for the cache that the coords were bad, and then tried to make it "better" through google without revisiting their cache site. sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

Sure it is. Just like my Popeil Pocket Fisherman is as good as my 8 1/2 foot Leonard bamboo flyrod.

 

Seriously, I would love to see some carefully controlled tests regarding the accuracy of smart phones vs dedicated GPS units.

Edited September 16, 2010 by knowschad

[+LukeTrocity]

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

so 10% of the caches placed with it would have off coordinates.

Coordinates would be no more off than most people with a GPSR since there is always +- error.

 

Most coordinates being off is USER ERROR from not following directions. Both on GPS and phones.

 

And this is what I'm talking about "know it alls" that don't have both to follow actual results.

Edited September 16, 2010 by LukeTrocity

[knowschad]

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

so 10% of the caches placed with it would have off coordinates.

Coordinates would be no more off than most people with a GPSR since there is always +- error.

 

If the unit itself is less accurate, then the +- error will be greater. That is not rocket surgery.

[+narcissa]

Oh Snap! U got me good! How bout you read your next credit card agreement 3 times and let me berate you when you cant remember the policy on international frequent flyer mile black out dates. Sheesh!

 

I would certainly read that section thoroughly before asking you about it.

[+dfx]

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

so 10% of the caches placed with it would have off coordinates.

Coordinates would be no more off than most people with a GPSR since there is always +- error.

which would mean that your smartphone was as accurate as your oregon in 100% of the cases. why did you say something else before then?

[+GrateBear]

I have to say that it's remarkable how gentle noobs are responded to in these forums. I've been on some where the comments they've made above would have generated scorching replies.

[+LukeTrocity]

Heres what I know:

 

Droid incredible gets me to the cache every time.

 

Oregon 450 gets me to the cache every time.

 

I've placed caches with my smart phone and was told it was dead on by GPSR user. Then gone to someone who placed the cache using a GPSR and had it been 50' away. And all the following logs confirm this.

 

IT'S USER ERROR. People don't follow the guidelines. I would argue the smartphone USER might be a more casual cacher therefore less knowledgable about placing caches properly. But even then still doesn't explain all the GPSR caches I find where the 5 most recent logs are re posting coordinates.

[+dfx]

I have to say that it's remarkable how gentle noobs are responded to in these forums. I've been on some where the comments they've made above would have generated scorching replies.

try the german speaking forum here, you'd feel right at home

[+narcissa]

I have to say that it's remarkable how gentle noobs are responded to in these forums. I've been on some where the comments they've made above would have generated scorching replies.

 

My other internet playgrounds are way rougher than this place. I always have a bit of a laugh when someone complains about how mean people are in the Groundspeak Forums.

[+Cardinal Red]

The Etrex H should have a feature to average the coordinates for you. Go with that.

Since you have made such a point of emphasizing it, I just have to say that I do not rely on the "average the coordinates for you" feature. It's a tool (or a crutch). Sometimes I ask it for advice. Sometimes I don't. If Garmin took that feature away, my caches would still have very good coords.

[+power69]

While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth.

that's usually those people who used a smartphone to get their coordinates (or screwed up in some other way - it's perfectly possible to get bad coordinates from a good GPSr too), then learnt from the cachers who went for the cache that the coords were bad, and then tried to make it "better" through google without revisiting their cache site. sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

I'd rather seek a google earth cache than a iphone cache!

[+TABjuggler]

I have to say that it's remarkable how gentle noobs are responded to in these forums. I've been on some where the comments they've made above would have generated scorching replies.

 

My other internet playgrounds are way rougher than this place. I always have a bit of a laugh when someone complains about how mean people are in the Groundspeak Forums.

 

True. However, objectively in either case, being unkind is unnecessary.

[GOF and Bacall]

The Etrex H should have a feature to average the coordinates for you. Go with that.

Since you have made such a point of emphasizing it, I just have to say that I do not rely on the "average the coordinates for you" feature. It's a tool (or a crutch). Sometimes I ask it for advice. Sometimes I don't. If Garmin took that feature away, my caches would still have very good coords.

 

And your point is? The tool (or crutch as you put it) is there. If the OP learns to use it their coordinates will most likely be well within acceptable limits.

[+WhoDis]

While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth.

that's usually those people who used a smartphone to get their coordinates (or screwed up in some other way - it's perfectly possible to get bad coordinates from a good GPSr too), then learnt from the cachers who went for the cache that the coords were bad, and then tried to make it "better" through google without revisiting their cache site. sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

Then the Driod must be a better phone than the iPhone. My iPhone doesn't even come close to my 450. The iPhone does however beat the pants off my Explorist GC.

[Clan Riffster]

Hi Chris, welcome to the addiction. Thankfully, there is no 12 step program.

Glad to see you've got some experience playing in the woods. I hope you hide your caches in similar locales, as opposed to Burger King parking lots, but that's just my personal bias. Where ever you elect to create your first hide, many of the finders will be grateful. As for your question, I know it's already been answered, but allow me to touch on the "Why". Jeremy, (CEO of this madhouse we call home), believes that GPSr use is integral to the game, and the requirement to use a GPSr to hide a cache is a reflection of that. Other tools out there, such a Google Earth, can have huge margins of error. I once submitted an event using Google Earth coords, (fully intending to verify them the next day... and forgot), and had my ground zero pop up over a quarter mile away. The Vista H will give you decent coords under most circumstances.

 

As for the whole smart phone vs dedicated GPSr debate? Meh. My kids all have them, as does my wife. I use a 60CSx.

In direct, side-by-side, (unofficial), tests, my ability to mark a location and return to it consistently is far greater than theirs.

Regardless of tree cover, I could always get within 3' of any coords I marked. They would be lucky to get within 20'.

[Andronicus]

Thanks Andronicus, that's a very smart idea!

I find that near my house, and most anywhere in the my city, google maps is bang on. But at our local amusment park just outside the city, it is about 70m off; even though it is high resolution images.

[Andronicus]

As for the whole smart phone vs dedicated GPSr debate? Meh. My kids all have them, as does my wife. I use a 60CSx.

In direct, side-by-side, (unofficial), tests, my ability to mark a location and return to it consistently is far greater than theirs.

Regardless of tree cover, I could always get within 3' of any coords I marked. They would be lucky to get within 20'.

I have done about 75 benchmarks with my smart phone. More than half were using the internal GPSr. They are usualy within 3m, but once in a while out by as much as 12m. My new Bluetooth GPSr it amazing. Super sencitive (at -165dBm it is 2x as sensitive as the Garmin "High sensitivity" receivers), and the standard 3m accuracy. So far I have only done 2 benchmarks with it, but both were within 3m.

[Clan Riffster]

My new Bluetooth GPSr it amazing.

Sounds pretty neat. None of my smart phone carrying horde has blue teeth. Hopefully they won't see this thread, or I'll have to buy them some.

[+sseegars]

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

so 10% of the caches placed with it would have off coordinates.

Coordinates would be no more off than most people with a GPSR since there is always +- error.

 

If the unit itself is less accurate, then the +- error will be greater. That is not rocket surgery.

 

I hid a cache just the other day with a friend. He had a droid smart phone with him and I was using my Oregon 550. His coords were about 2 feet off from mine after averaging. Just putting this out there. It was pretty accurate.

[knowschad]

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

so 10% of the caches placed with it would have off coordinates.

Coordinates would be no more off than most people with a GPSR since there is always +- error.

 

If the unit itself is less accurate, then the +- error will be greater. That is not rocket surgery.

 

I hid a cache just the other day with a friend. He had a droid smart phone with him and I was using my Oregon 550. His coords were about 2 feet off from mine after averaging. Just putting this out there. It was pretty accurate.

Note the first seven words in what I said. I am not saying any unit is more or less accurate than another.

[Andronicus]

My new Bluetooth GPSr it amazing.

Sounds pretty neat. None of my smart phone carrying horde has blue teeth. Hopefully they won't see this thread, or I'll have to buy them some.

The bluetooth GPSr I have was only $80(CAD) including shipping. There are ones that are quite good (but not as good as the $80 one) for much less ($45).

[Skippermark]

Seriously, I would love to see some carefully controlled tests regarding the accuracy of smart phones vs dedicated GPS units.

We found some caches hidden by a user with a iPhone 3Gs. I was worried because her description said she had 56 feet of accuracy when she hid them, but her coordinates were perfect. All of them had us within 9 feet or better according to our Garmin 60CSx.

 

Awhile back we found some caches hidden by someone with a 60CSx (they said so in their description), and they were 50 feet or more off.

 

I've never hidden anything with my iPhone 4, but we're using it more and more to find caches because the accuracy is so good, and having description and everything in one spot is great. I've done some testing at various caches, and both the phone and the Garmin are usually within a few feet of other. The phone is so good that I don't hesitate to run off into the woods using just it and find 5 or 6 caches.

 

I have friends who use Android phones, and theirs are just as accurate it seems.

[Skippermark]

I have to say that it's remarkable how gentle noobs are responded to in these forums. I've been on some where the comments they've made above would have generated scorching replies.

Everyone is new at some point, and I've found that cachers are generally pretty willing to help out and show others the ropes. We've been to events where someone is new and only done a couple caches or someone has only heard of caching but never actually found any, and other cachers will be lining up to take them out onto the trail and show them what it's about.

 

Ultimately, it benefits everyone to be friendly. It helps newer cachers get over any concerns they may have, and it helps veterans because newer caches are comfortable placing caches, so there will be new caches getting placed that everyone can find. It goes on and on.

[+LukeTrocity]

LP

Sigh...please dont blame smart phone users. My droid incredible is as accurate as my oregon 450 in 90% of conditions.

so 10% of the caches placed with it would have off coordinates.

Coordinates would be no more off than most people with a GPSR since there is always +- error.

 

If the unit itself is less accurate, then the +- error will be greater. That is not rocket surgery.

 

I hid a cache just the other day with a friend. He had a droid smart phone with him and I was using my Oregon 550. His coords were about 2 feet off from mine after averaging. Just putting this out there. It was pretty accurate.

Note the first seven words in what I said. I am not saying any unit is more or less accurate than another.

Sure it is. Just like my Popeil Pocket Fisherman is as good as my 8 1/2 foot Leonard bamboo flyrod

 

Thats what I remember being said. Anyway I will be conducting such tests soon. I will probably be releasing them in stages.

[+roziecakes]

I have read and understood the guidelines, with the exception of one thing. While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth. Which leads me to the question........Which is a more accurate way to determine coordinates, My eTrex GPSr or Google?

 

It's too hard to tell whether or not Google is going to be more accurate. Always take the 'better safe than sorry' route and use your GPS to hide the cache, as the guidelines state; despite what other cachers may do. Your etrex should do fine.

 

There are some guidelines that I don't agree with or find questionable, but this is in my opinion, one of the most fundamental and important guidelines, because it affects everyone's game when coordinates are off.

[+BlueDeuce]

Hi! My name is Chris, I'm 30, and I am a brand new geocacher!

 

Hey Chris. Welcome to the addiction.

 

I'm over to your side of the state quite often. Maybe I'll see you on the trail.

 

Happy Caching!

[Andronicus]

Seriously, I would love to see some carefully controlled tests regarding the accuracy of smart phones vs dedicated GPS units.

We found some caches hidden by a user with a iPhone 3Gs. I was worried because her description said she had 56 feet of accuracy when she hid them, but her coordinates were perfect. All of them had us within 9 feet or better according to our Garmin 60CSx.

 

Awhile back we found some caches hidden by someone with a 60CSx (they said so in their description), and they were 50 feet or more off.

 

I've never hidden anything with my iPhone 4, but we're using it more and more to find caches because the accuracy is so good, and having description and everything in one spot is great. I've done some testing at various caches, and both the phone and the Garmin are usually within a few feet of other. The phone is so good that I don't hesitate to run off into the woods using just it and find 5 or 6 caches.

 

I have friends who use Android phones, and theirs are just as accurate it seems.

I have heard that the iPhone 4 has a much better GPS chipset than the iPhone 3

 

How do you find the iPhone 4 when out of cell phone coverage?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

While the guidelines do say that I should use a GPSr to determine the coordinates for the hide, I have read in other posts, cache descriptions, and logs that cache hiders will "update" their coordinates with Google Maps and/or Google Earth.

that's usually those people who used a smartphone to get their coordinates (or screwed up in some other way - it's perfectly possible to get bad coordinates from a good GPSr too), then learnt from the cachers who went for the cache that the coords were bad, and then tried to make it "better" through google without revisiting their cache site. sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

I'd rather seek a google earth cache than a iphone cache!

 

If you've looked at google earth images in some remote areas outside of the U.S. you'll see that the resolution is quite inadequate for searching for a geocache. Look at the north part of Costa Rica for example and you'll find that much of the terrain is obscured by cloud cover. Look in many parts of Africa and you'll find that the resolution is so low that you'll have a hard time identifying a building let alone any smaller landmarks that can assist in finding a geocache.

[+kissguy&frannyfru]

Hi chad,welcome to the game. Your question seemed to be which was more accurate,not what the guidlines say. In my opinion the answer is the gpsr is more accurate.

Now, my inquiring (sometimes strange) mind has to ask a question. In your post you said

"my best was when i carved a hole in a tree big enough to hold 3 G.I. Joes and a couple Hotwheels cars and placed the bark back over it (I actually found them again 17 years later,kinda, but i needed a ladder and found the front end of a Hotwheels car sticking out of the tree, and now part of the tree!).........."

Now my question,why did you need a ladder? Did you use a ladder when you put it there? Reason i ask is if you put a hole in a tree,say 4ft off the ground,20 years later that hole will still be 4ft off the ground. The tree doesn't grow from the bottom up. Sorry but my strange thinking mind read that and it just has to know.

[Skippermark]

I have heard that the iPhone 4 has a much better GPS chipset than the iPhone 3

 

How do you find the iPhone 4 when out of cell phone coverage?

I haven't used it yet without cell coverage. If I know I'm not going to have service I use the Garmin. I should try it just to see.

 

The iPhone 4 GPS is really good. It's not quite as fast to update at the Garmin, but it's pretty close, and it's accurate. I know the 3G was bad with cell coverage and not usable without unless you waited awhile for the real GPS to kick in. I'd like to think the 4 is better without cell coverage.

[+TerraViators]

I'm gonna place a cache here in the next couple days and I was curious as to which would be more accurate; my GPSr or google earth. The cache will be in an area very distinguishable from the satellite. So should I use my gps coordinates or the google earth coordinates after I place the pin on the exact location?

I've hid some without a GPSr and used Google and had spot on coords. I've used my GPSr for some with the same results. Mostly, I cross reference my coords with Google as a redundancy.

[BigC847]

Hi chad,welcome to the game. Your question seemed to be which was more accurate,not what the guidlines say. In my opinion the answer is the gpsr is more accurate.

Now, my inquiring (sometimes strange) mind has to ask a question. In your post you said

"my best was when i carved a hole in a tree big enough to hold 3 G.I. Joes and a couple Hotwheels cars and placed the bark back over it (I actually found them again 17 years later,kinda, but i needed a ladder and found the front end of a Hotwheels car sticking out of the tree, and now part of the tree!).........."

Now my question,why did you need a ladder? Did you use a ladder when you put it there? Reason i ask is if you put a hole in a tree,say 4ft off the ground,20 years later that hole will still be 4ft off the ground. The tree doesn't grow from the bottom up. Sorry but my strange thinking mind read that and it just has to know.

 

Thank you for the welcome! it's appreciated!

FYI, My names Chris, Lol

I sat on a limb for 2 hours carving that hole when i was a spry 10 or 11 year old. Now I'm 30 and a little on the rotund side, lol. My tree climbing skills aren't what they used to be. Luckily i knew the people who lived in my childhood home and they had a ladder for me to use.

 

 

The house with the red circle is where i grew up. The houses with the blue circles were the only other houses back then. the whole red outline was my parents property and nothing but woods. ALL Mine, well back then anyway. It was a great place to grow up. That was my "yard", and most of my friends had their own "yard" as well. There was also a decent sized lake about a third of a mile to the east.