Fixing a cache that you broke

[+9Key]

Let's say you climb a tree and the ammo can separates from its hinges and falls to the ground. Do you climb down, retrieve the bottom of the can, and climb back up and replace it, or is it the cache owner's responsibility to fix it if you don't want to climb again?

 

To me you should fix it since it doesn't require any special tools or glue or whatnot.

 

What do you think, forum?

[+GeoGeeBee]

The answer seems so obvious, that I have to wonder why you are even asking the question. It should go without saying that if you break something you can fix, you fix it. This doesn't even require tools or spare parts, so there should be no question.

 

Now, will you tell us the rest of the story?

[+palmetto]

Edited April 21, 2010 by palmetto

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Early winter, I "found" a geocache with my left size 12, hidden 40+ from where my GPSr said it shudda been.

It was a cheapo consumer-grade juice container -- key word "was". It disintegrated in the 0ºF temps.

 

Luckily, I had just found a real deal on some L&L containers and they were still in the truck.

 

Transferred all the swag and logbook to the new L&L, returned to its' hide.

 

What more to say? I broke it, I replaced it. I refer to it now as an "upgrade".

[+9Key]

 

Now, will you tell us the rest of the story?

Someone did this to one of my high difficulty and terrain caches recently. They seemed to think that I should go and fix it. Just wondering if they were out of line or if it was just me.

 

@Palmetto - what did you post? I'd be interested in hearing what you had to say!

[hoosier guy]

Seems obvious that you do what you must to make it right.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Someone did this to one of my high difficulty and terrain caches recently. They seemed to think that I should go and fix it. Just wondering if they were out of line or if it was just me.

 

They were actually that crass? I think perhaps you could delete their find as it is not a "find", it is a "destroy"!

 

Not that I would, but just suggesting...

[+Team MacKenzie]

Of course I'd be fixing it!!

 

Heck, I've been known to fix caches that were broken that I didn't even break!! And clean out rusty/damaged swag, and replace full or wet logs, and supply replacement pencils and, and, and!

 

And if I didn't have the right equipment with me to fix what I broke, I'd be making a return trip post haste to the cache with the right equipment to fix it properly.

 

But then, I wouldn't be UP a tree in the first place. I never managed to climb the tree in our backyard when I was a child and I'm sure not trying to climb one now!!

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I never managed to climb the tree in our backyard when I was a child and I'm sure not trying to climb one now!!

 

Good point. Maybe you should always take your pet monkey along geocaching.

[knowschad]

Let's say you climb a tree and the ammo can separates from its hinges and falls to the ground. Do you climb down, retrieve the bottom of the can, and climb back up and replace it, or is it the cache owner's responsibility to fix it if you don't want to climb again?

 

To me you should fix it since it doesn't require any special tools or glue or whatnot.

 

What do you think, forum?

I've done it. Dropped the cap from a small, not an ammo can lid, but same concept. I did NOT want to climb that tree again, but I did. My responsibility.

[+StarBrand]

I've done similar and had to make a 2nd trip up/out/over/in to take care of the issue.

[+Team Noodles]

I've done it. Dropped the cap from a small, not an ammo can lid, but same concept. I did NOT want to climb that tree again, but I did. My responsibility.

 

I've done similar and had to make a 2nd trip up/out/over/in to take care of the issue.

 

yup have done the exact same (and bolded for emphasis)

[+buttaskotch]

You breakie, you fixie.

 

Maybe you should send this link to the person who screwed up your cache so they can see that the consensus is that they should have done the "right" thing.

[Whichwaydoigo]

Let's say you climb a tree and the ammo can separates from its hinges and falls to the ground. Do you climb down, retrieve the bottom of the can, and climb back up and replace it, or is it the cache owner's responsibility to fix it if you don't want to climb again?

 

To me you should fix it since it doesn't require any special tools or glue or whatnot.

 

What do you think, forum?

 

An ammo can in a tree, that requires climbing to retrieve, doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

[+Touchstone]

To your original question, yes I would attempt to fix it.

 

However, putting this topic in the proper context:

 

Someone did this to one of my high difficulty and terrain caches recently. They seemed to think that I should go and fix it. Just wondering if they were out of line or if it was just me.

 

If it were one of my caches, I would take responsibility for the obvious design failure and would probably redesign it so that future finders would not be faced with a difficult predicament like this.

 

My 0.02

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

An ammo can in a tree, that requires climbing to retrieve, doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

Cacher's choice. To climb or not to climb.

 

Fixing what you broke is a moral issue. Some people have no morals.

[GPS-Hermit]

If you can fix it - we all benefit and the game continues - it is fun being a positive part of what is happening. We participate in keeping the game going and all have a want to see the next person enjoy what we just found. I have done lots of maintenence knowing full well cache owner are not always handy. I always let the owner what I did so he/she has no surprizes upon him. WE should always clean up and so minor maintenence and keep the owner knowing how the cache condition is.

[+9Key]

You breakie, you fixie.

 

Maybe you should send this link to the person who screwed up your cache so they can see that the consensus is that they should have done the "right" thing.

I'm hoping they find it on their own.

[+9Key]

 

If it were one of my caches, I would take responsibility for the obvious design failure and would probably redesign it so that future finders would not be faced with a difficult predicament like this.

 

My 0.02

It is / was a high terrain / high difficulty cache, meant to be difficult to get to and retrieve. I don't think that constitutes a design flaw.

[+Walts Hunting]

Just like in a store. You broke it, you own it.

 

Using your logic if you accidentally ran a stop sign and smashed a car going the other way it would be okay to leave the scene and let the victim fix his car.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

Now, will you tell us the rest of the story?

Someone did this to one of my high difficulty and terrain caches recently. They seemed to think that I should go and fix it. Just wondering if they were out of line or if it was just me.

 

@Palmetto - what did you post? I'd be interested in hearing what you had to say!

It's obvious that if I break something I should to my very best to return it to it's original(or at least functional) condition. Gee, I even do this for tons of Caches that I didn't break and don't own. No biggie.

 

The first things that comes to mind in this case are...

 

1. Perhaps they didn't realize that the lids are detachable, and thought something was REALLY broken? I could forgive them if this were the case. (If they thought that it was a major structural failure of the hinge, I can see them not trying to fix it)

2. Perhaps there's a way to rig the can so that the lid does NOT come off? It would be really bad if it had hit someone on the way down.

[+Touchstone]

I don't think that constitutes a design flaw.

 

I'll politely disagree

 

It's fairly common knowledge (at least to veteran cachers such as yourself), that ammo cans have hinged lids that are removable. I would suggest finding a container that doesn't fall apart when opened and attaching the container in such a way that prevents removal from its location (cable swagging perhaps or locked cable)

[+Juan Durrer]

If you are talking about [link to specific cache removed at request of OP/CO] I think you're out of line.

 

First off, a Terrain 3.5 (at least in my neck of the woods and according to the guidelines) is not a "life and limb" situation. It's a good hike. Probably some bushwhacking. Certainly no need for special equipment. Judging from the comments of other finders - which the most recent cacher was NOT OBLIGED TO READ - you have under rated the terrain by probably a whole star.

 

2nd, a hint is merely that: a hint. Many cachers don't read them; they enjoy the hunt. This means the guy had no idea he'd be up in a tree when he set out to find your hide.

 

3rd, I'd say that if you are hanging a cache in a tree, as others have said, you might use a container that isn't prone to falling apart - as ammo boxes often do.

 

4th - despite finding terrain beyond what was advertised and a cache container that fell apart on him, he preserved the cache, told the story in the log, and offered (politely) to come back and fix the thing another day.

 

Your response to him was out of line. He did note the terrain rating. One need not be "prepared for anything" when hunting a 3.5. Suggesting that a guy with 1105 finds was unprepared is plain old disrespectful, even if you do have 3,800+

 

Now, I'm still a newbie cacher and I know it, but I'm not a kid either. If I found your cache, with that rating and encountered what the finder did, maybe I wouldn't have tried for it. Then again, if I'd bushwhacked in all the way, maybe I would go for it. Hell, I earned it. When the box fell apart, I'd be pissed. If I could fix it without making the climb again, I would, but I sure as hell wouldn't take any risks. I'd post the same note he did, but maybe not so polite and good natured. (YOU gave HIM wrong information)

 

If I were the CO, and I'd already seen other logs suggesting the terrain was under rated, and then I saw this finder's log, I'd apologize to the finder, and ask him to send me the cache so I could fix it and I would CHANGE THE RATING!

Edited April 22, 2010 by Juan Durrer

[+L0ne.R]

And if I didn't have the right equipment with me to fix what I broke, I'd be making a return trip post haste to the cache with the right equipment to fix it properly.

 

But what if you're visiting another province/state and you don't have time to go back to the location. Me? I'd email the owner asap and apologize profusely for wrecking the container, that is if it was totally my fault and not the fault of a shoddy container. I'd explain to him/her that I couldn't go back. I'd also mention it in the log to send a heads up to the next finder that the container was broken.

 

If it was the fault of a shoddy container (e.g. brittle gladware where the lid snaps in 2 when I try to pull it off) then I'd still contact the owner and let them know that the gladware lid split in two (but I wouldn't apologize profusely since it's not my fault). I would not, even if it's a local cache, go out and buy a gladware container to replace the current one - it would only serve to perpetuate the problem.

 

What if the way the CO placed the cache was inferior, just a matter of time that the cache equipment would fall apart? I'd just post a NM log in that case. "The fish line that the ammo can was hanging from snapped when I reached for it. I left the cache in the crook of a branch about 8 feet up." I wouldn't go out and purchase better fish line.

 

Now in the case of the OP. I didn't think that intact ammo can lids came off. The only experience I've had was with one of my ammo can hides and another COs ammo can hide where the lid came off in my hand. The hinge pins had sheared off. I was thinking about re-using my ammo can by pulling out the pin and replacing it. Couldn't do it, there was no way the pins were coming out of the hinges. So, is the OP sure that the hinge pin hasn't sheared?

 

Forum topic about recouping my damaged ammo can http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=230627

[knowschad]

Just like in a store. You broke it, you own it.

Oh, great!! Don't let Paul Repak see that!!

[+QuadWrays]

If you are talking about GC1HKZR I think you're out of line.

 

First off, a Terrain 3.5 (at least in my neck of the woods and according to the guidelines) is not a "life and limb" situation. It's a good hike. Probably some bushwhacking. Certainly no need for special equipment. Judging from the comments of other finders - which the most recent cacher was NOT OBLIGED TO READ - you have under rated the terrain by probably a whole star.

 

2nd, a hint is merely that: a hint. Many cachers don't read them; they enjoy the hunt. This means the guy had no idea he'd be up in a tree when he set out to find your hide.

 

3rd, I'd say that if you are hanging a cache in a tree, as others have said, you might use a container that isn't prone to falling apart - as ammo boxes often do.

 

4th - despite finding terrain beyond what was advertised and a cache container that fell apart on him, he preserved the cache, told the story in the log, and offered (politely) to come back and fix the thing another day.

 

Your response to him was out of line. He did note the terrain rating. One need not be "prepared for anything" when hunting a 3.5. Suggesting that a guy with 1105 finds was unprepared is plain old disrespectful, even if you do have 3,800+

 

Now, I'm still a newbie cacher and I know it, but I'm not a kid either. If I found your cache, with that rating and encountered what the finder did, maybe I wouldn't have tried for it. Then again, if I'd bushwhacked in all the way, maybe I would go for it. Hell, I earned it. When the box fell apart, I'd be pissed. If I could fix it without making the climb again, I would, but I sure as hell wouldn't take any risks. I'd post the same note he did, but maybe not so polite and good natured. (YOU gave HIM wrong information)

 

If I were the CO, and I'd already seen other logs suggesting the terrain was under rated, and then I saw this finder's log, I'd apologize to the finder, and ask him to send me the cache so I could fix it and I would CHANGE THE RATING!

 

In his defense, how would you feel about the cacher in question taking the broken container to an event so others could log the cache in question while he was publically criticizing the cache owner and his hides? All without Cache owner's permission or approval, only to place back afterwards? If he had such a problem with the cache owner, couldn't he have not chosen to hunt his hides in the first place? He knew it was a tree climb when he got to GZ. Couldn't he have chosen not to attempt?

Edited April 21, 2010 by QuadWrays

[+Touchstone]

Why do I hear a famous composition by Marius Constant in my head

 

That's seems like a remarkable tangent you're exploring. Please elaborate

 

Edit spelling

Edited April 21, 2010 by Touchstone

[+9Key]

If you are talking about GC1HKZR I think you're out of line.

 

First off, a Terrain 3.5 (at least in my neck of the woods and according to the guidelines) is not a "life and limb" situation. It's a good hike. Probably some bushwhacking. Certainly no need for special equipment. Judging from the comments of other finders - which the most recent cacher was NOT OBLIGED TO READ - you have under rated the terrain by probably a whole star.

 

No cacher used special equipment on the cache. To me it was a 3.5. The majority agreed with me.

 

"Not obliged to read"? Sure, you don't have to, but this cache was not a park and grab. It would behoove you to read up and research before attempting it. Many of my caches are that way. If the cache if above your limits do not try it.

Edited April 21, 2010 by 9Key

[+Juan Durrer]

In his defense, how would you feel about the cacher in question taking the broken container to an event so others could log the cache in question while he was publically criticizing the cache owner and his hides? All without Cache owner's permission or approval, only to place back afterwards? If he had such a problem with the cache owner, couldn't he have not chosen to hunt his hides in the first place? He knew it was a tree climb when he got to GZ. Couldn't he have chosen not to attempt?

 

Is this what happened? And who, at an event, would log such a find? If your story is the case, forget it... I'm not interested in interpersonal melodrama of that order.

 

As for finding out it's a tree climb AT ground zero? I still say, it's not a proper 3.5

[+9Key]

 

As for finding out it's a tree climb AT ground zero? I still say, it's not a proper 3.5

Clayjar gave it a 4.

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/?

[+Juan Durrer]

No cacher used special equipment on the cache. To me it was a 3.5. The majority agreed with me. It would behoove you to read up and research before attempting it. Many of my caches are that way. If the cache if above your limits do not try it.

Specialized equipment should not be needed for less than a 5 rating.

 

The guidelines say "*** = The average adult or older child should be OK depending on physical condition. Terrain is likely off-trail. May have one or more of the following: some overgrowth, some steep elevation changes, or more than a 2 mile hike."

 

"**** = Terrain is probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or more than a 10 mile hike. May require an overnight stay."

 

Neither of these suggests climbing high into a tree.

 

You are certainly free to rate your caches your way. If you pride yourself on having the biggest baddest meanest man-eatenest caches this side of the Rio Grande, I guess that's your privilege. But, your reputation does not precede you. No one is expected to know who you are and how bad-a** your caches are; we choose a location, we get GC numbers, coordinates, difficulty & terrain ratings and we go a huntin'.

 

My understanding of geocaching as set out by Groundspeak is that we play by the guidelines. Your cache did not conform to the guidelines and an experienced cacher found himself in over his head. Even if the majority "agrees" with you, I read all the logs and I think there were more than enough people who politely hinted or said outright that the cache was tougher than listed. You were on notice even if you didn't already know (but I suspect you did already know and you did want it to be so.) Ironically, it sounds as if the 2.5 difficulty rating on this hide is overrated by a star or more!

 

IF the finder had read the logs, he should have been on notice too. But, again, given the RATING you listed, I believe there are a lot of experienced cachers who would CHOOSE to not read the logs; they're filled with spoilers that take the fun out of the find for a lot of players. It "behooves" a player to read the DESCRIPTION, NOT the logs. Many of your caches might be "that way," but YOU are not relevant vis a vis the cache. It's the description, the difficulty rating and the terrain rating [period]

 

No 2.5/3.5 cache should be "above the limits" of a cacher with 1100+ finds and 70+ finds at Terrain 3 or higher.

 

Of course, if the finder knows you and/or knows your caches, than he should have been on notice too. There's no info on that. His log was a detailed account of what sounded like an unfortunate if ill advised adventure, with a transparent offer to fix coupled with a pretty opaque plea that you fix it yourself. If there's no history between you too, it looks pretty innocent on his part.

 

If the hypothetical presented by QuadWrays is the rest of the story of what transpired, then in ADDITION to what I've said, I'm sorry for you. That finder's behavior is inexcusable.

 

So my conclusion is this: You presented VERY incomplete information at the beginning of this thread, looking for validation for your position. I did my best to piece together the story, because something about this didn't feel right. If there's history between you guys, you should have said so. His log doesn't make it seem so. And, if it comes down to just reading the logs... he didn't really do anything wrong, and you could have been nicer.

 

Nobody ever got in trouble by being nicer

[+Juan Durrer]

Further to the rating issue:

 

A few log excerpts... each line from a different log:

 

"a plan that had us constructing a series of ropes, wedges, levers, and pulleys"

 

"skills I learned in the hills of Tennessee"

 

"I have done a couple of 5/5's but this one was even more challenging" (2401 found)

 

"Are you sure this isn't at least a four star terrain" (3145 found)

 

"a 2.5 and 3.5 .. How can that be??? Must be at least a 4, 4" (6401 found)

 

"I would say this is at least a difficulty 4-4.5 hide. I was not equipped to get this one" (957 finds)

 

Don't get me wrong. It sounds like a blast. Lots of people said they had fun. I hope to look for your caches some day. But, please be more fair about the ratings and/or more informative in the descriptions!

[+popokiiti]

I found a cache that was hidden in a log - as I picked it up, it fell apart...nature at work, but I felt responsible. After entering the find online, I emailed the cache owner, explained what had happened and that I had put it back together as best I could. They were very gracious and had another "outer container" ready to go as they were aware it would be needed soon.

The best thing to do is 'fess up - I wouldn't expect someone to replace a container I had placed it it was an accident...these things happen.

[+wolfslady]

Reading the logs the first that that catches my eye is that he was barely able to reach the cache to open it and reaching the part that needed repaired was not something he felt he could do. So what did you expect him to do? Risk life and limb to figure out what the problem was?

 

Second it looks to me like the ammo can was secured in such a way that it couldn’t be removed from the tree and it was designed to hang from the lid when opened. That doesn’t seem like something that is going to hold up indefinitely, so you should have expected this at some point.

 

Third I see a note that this cache was “fixed” in the past by another geocacher who “broke” it. I do not see a note that their repair was checked on or that it was replaced with a new ammo can. So accusing this person of breaking it is rude. (to be nice.) Even if you had replaced it, it seems clear that the cache placement has a flaw, besides the obvious fact that it’s under rated. Seems to be a rash of underrated caches that require climbing a tree. IMO the owners are the type who get a kick out of sending people off on wild goose chases that they are unprepared for. In this case there were also many comments from previous finders about the difficulty of getting to the cache other than the climb, including a creek crossing and about the coordinates putting them on the wrong side of the creek. So it seems to me that it’s safe to say someone isn’t playing in the spirit of the game. When in doubt it’s better to overrate your cache than it is to underrate it. Even more so when it requires something that several people stated they feared life or limb while doing it.

 

Or maybe you just don’t have what it takes to fix your own hide. It does sound like you adopted it.

[+DorkX2]

If a cache needs maintenance, fixed, or if anything is wrong with it that I can fix, I do it. I would hope the etiquette for most cachers is to do the same, I would want them to do it to my cache is well.

 

This is why I carry a BUNCH of supplies with me in a bag when I cache.

[+simpjkee]

Let's say you climb a tree and the ammo can separates from its hinges and falls to the ground. Do you climb down, retrieve the bottom of the can, and climb back up and replace it, or is it the cache owner's responsibility to fix it if you don't want to climb again?

 

To me you should fix it since it doesn't require any special tools or glue or whatnot.

 

What do you think, forum?

I don't think this is an issue of 'fixing' a cache, because there is nothing broken. It's an issue of replacing the cache how you found it. I would replace the cache how I found it. If that meant climbing down, getting the bottom of the ammo can, and climbing back up, that is exactly what I would do.

 

On a side note (now that I've read the cache page), a cacher leaving my cache worse than they found it and notifying me of the situation is not good, but I would be okay with it, appreciate their honesty, and go replace it correctly no questions asked. A cacher taking half my container home with them and then being so bold as to suggest that I should disable my cache until they get back to replace it, would really really not make me happy. That is not cool.

 

On another side note, Porcupine Tree is rockin band!

Edited April 22, 2010 by simpjkee

[+Ambrosia]

Random thoughts:

 

I wouldn't have rated the cache any higher, either. I've not been to this cache spot, so I can't know if it's super dangerous or not. But I do know that everyone's perception is different - some people will complain about anything it seems, so just because there are complaints about the terrain in cache logs does not automatically mean that it should be bumped up. That's up to the cache owner to determine.

 

I don't think that 9Key was rude in his log.

 

I don't understand the log by the finder, did they take the cache home with them? If they feel that they could fix the cache on a return visit, why didn't they just fix it while they were still there? If they've found that many caches, I would think they would know how to put an ammo can lid back on?

 

And yes, ammo can lids do come off (responding to an earlier comment about if they come off). Some of them are a bit tough to get off, but some are looser and can come off easier.

 

I would be frustrated if someone did something to my cache hide, and didn't fix it if it was reasonably easy for them to fix it right at the cache site. But, if they mentioned it in the cache log, I would mumble to myself and then head out there to fix it as soon as I could (after disabling the cache, if need be). If they took the container home with them, I would see if they could replace it or send it to me. If not, I would replace the cache with a new container if the cache was important enough to me (which pretty much all of mine are).

 

[+power69]

Let's say you climb a tree and the ammo can separates from its hinges and falls to the ground. Do you climb down, retrieve the bottom of the can, and climb back up and replace it, or is it the cache owner's responsibility to fix it if you don't want to climb again?

 

To me you should fix it since it doesn't require any special tools or glue or whatnot.

 

What do you think, forum?

 

An ammo can in a tree, that requires climbing to retrieve, doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

specially if what holds it should break while you're under it.

OUCH! thats gonna leave a mark!

[Skippermark]

Let's say you climb a tree and the ammo can separates from its hinges and falls to the ground. Do you climb down, retrieve the bottom of the can, and climb back up and replace it, or is it the cache owner's responsibility to fix it if you don't want to climb again?

 

To me you should fix it since it doesn't require any special tools or glue or whatnot.

I think the person that broke it should try to fix it. If for some reason they can't and the owner has to go out, they should offer to go with them (maybe even drive them if it's a far trip) and try to help out as much they can.

[+L0ne.R]

Let's say you climb a tree and the ammo can separates from its hinges and falls to the ground. Do you climb down, retrieve the bottom of the can, and climb back up and replace it, or is it the cache owner's responsibility to fix it if you don't want to climb again?

 

To me you should fix it since it doesn't require any special tools or glue or whatnot.

I think the person that broke it should try to fix it. If for some reason they can't and the owner has to go out, they should offer to go with them (maybe even drive them if it's a far trip) and try to help out as much they can.

 

I hide caches and expect if something goes wrong with a box that I will go out and fix it. All I ask is that you let me know asap. Mistakes and accidents happen. I don't understand why a CO would hide a cache that he/she doesn't want to have to drive back to or replace if the container breaks or has a mishap. If you place the cache 20 feet up a tree and don't want to have to climb up there whenever the need arises, maybe you shouldn't hide a cache up a tree. I had a magnetic cache that on occasion would be dropped down into the 3 foot shaft it was stuck to. I knew that that may be a problem every once in a while (happened a couple of times in 3 years). Did I expect someone to carry around a magnet on a pole to retrieve such a cache should a slip-of-the-hand happen? No. I expected that I would go out with my magnet on an extension rod and retrieve the cache - it was my responsibility, since I hid it in such a way that that was a possibility.

[+fishingfools]

I broke one while i was out of town recently. Took a little drive to the hardware, bought some exopy and fixed it as good as new. I broke it, felt I should fix it.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Yeah, obviously the breaker should fix it. I've broken and fixed a cache before. I've also broken something on a cache site that I thought would be the cache and wasn't (oops!) and fixed that. I had to go back with tools to do it. One time I found a broken cache and it wasn't an easy fix so I told the owner and the owner replied back that it wasn't broken when they checked on it two days prior. Uhm... okay... well, it was when I found it so go check again. *shrug.

[Skippermark]

I hide caches and expect if something goes wrong with a box that I will go out and fix it. All I ask is that you let me know asap. Mistakes and accidents happen. I don't understand why a CO would hide a cache that he/she doesn't want to have to drive back to or replace if the container breaks or has a mishap. If you place the cache 20 feet up a tree and don't want to have to climb up there whenever the need arises, maybe you shouldn't hide a cache up a tree. I had a magnetic cache that on occasion would be dropped down into the 3 foot shaft it was stuck to. I knew that that may be a problem every once in a while (happened a couple of times in 3 years). Did I expect someone to carry around a magnet on a pole to retrieve such a cache should a slip-of-the-hand happen? No. I expected that I would go out with my magnet on an extension rod and retrieve the cache - it was my responsibility, since I hid it in such a way that that was a possibility.

As a courtesy to the owner, if I do something to the hide/container, I do whatever I can to make it right. Will everyone do that? No, but it's something I do. But, as an owner, I also know that I need to be prepared to go out and fix any cache I've placed in case it develops a problem.

 

I once cracked a container with a hammer while caching in the winter and trying to dig it out. I didn't have a replacement with me, but I did have a plastic bag, so I put everything into the bag and re-hid so it would stay dry. When I got home, I emailed the owner and told her I had destroyed the container and would be going back in the next couple days to replace it.

 

She told me not to worry about it and replaced it herself the next day. Even though she wasn't worried about it, I felt bad about making her have to pay for another container and hike out to replace it because of my bad aim while chipping the ice that was holding it in place, so at the next event I gave her a new, ready to hide container stocked full of goodies and a logbook.

[+FatCat2]

When I dropped a hanging cache inside a metal fence pole I returned the next day to retrieve and return it becasue even though this cache had a design flaw I felt it was my responsibility to do everything possible. But, if the rescue mission hadn't worked then I would have contacted the CO --just like youknowwho did-- to fess up and figure out how I could make it right. (Fortunately I didn't have to. Whew!!) I was the second of three butterfingers out of the first 15 cachers who made the same mistake-- so after #3 couldn't retrieve it the CO redesigned the hide. Point: There was shared responsibility between the finder the CO and that applies to your situation too. I'm seeing some all-or-nothing/ black& white thinking. Some of the discussion on this board seems to obsess about who is right or wrong than on problem solving or gaining perspective.

 

After perusing the logs, it's clear the cacher did the very, very best he could. In fact, made an extraordinary effort and was honest and prompt and considerate in letting you know about the problem. He took as much responsibility as was able and I'm sure he wanted to do more as he felt so terrible. Sometimes "stuff" happens. (I presume I can't use the other word on the forums.) He made a mistake, perhaps a couple, but there are things you could have done differently too. While momentarily irritating, they're all fairly minor mistakes in the grand scheme of things. Nothing to warrant the anger and insult you leveled at him.

 

No, as CO you can't clean up after every rushed and lazy cacher, but that does not appear to be the case. I'm sure you are inconvenienced and annoyed and I bet the embarrassed cacher understands that as much as I do. Nonetheless, I do hate to be harsh, but your response was breathtakingly rude. The situation is completely different than how you outlined it in this thread. (Juan Durrer nails it correctly) Anyway, why not focus on problem solving? Why not ask how much he was willing and able to do to help you out and come up a plan? As a CO you do bear some responsibility in fixing the inevitable "oops" on a challenging hide even if it's a bummer sometimes. Do you plan to excoriate everyone who has a bad experience? Wow.

 

You missed a great opportunity to make a friend and work together to solve the problem. There is so much rigid inflexible thinking here and laser-like focus on placing blame I have to shake my head. To what end?

 

Purely unsolicited advice on my part (which means probably annoying) but here goes: While you're not a mommy, it is to your direct benefit to let people how they should "prepare" on your cache page. That's not blaming you-- it's a pragmatic observation that makes everyone's life easier. If you can prevent a prioblem you don't have to fix it or worry about who's "wrong! " The logs indicate the cache page was insufficient.

 

With due respect, I'm sure you are a reasonable person but could have done things differently here. Consider this 1) a lesson learned about best practices in being a CO and 2) apologizing to GiT for your part in this. Judging by his log entry I would not be surprised if he was gracious and understanding.

Edited April 25, 2010 by FatCat2

[+lavender_rabbit]

Agreed with FatCat2 that the CO's response was rude compared to the finder/breaker's apology. It is apparent from his log he couldn't fix it, and he admits to making the mistake of popping the latch in the first place.

 

He did the best he could in a situation after creating the problem by identifying it, and all he got for his apology was a nose rubbing. If he'd been so inclined, the finder/breaker could have just left the whole thing busted on the ground without ever having to worry about it again. The CO could have used more tact, the guy tried to right a mistake he couldn't fix.

 

With that being said: I don't know if taking the cache home with him was a good idea. And I'm very curious about the after story at an event that was mentioned. It sounds like there is much more to this issue.

[+FatCat2]

With that being said: I don't know if taking the cache home with him was a good idea. And I'm very curious about the after story at an event that was mentioned. It sounds like there is much more to this issue.

 

Well, it's certainly awkward and not ideal, but I think that's the core issue here. If he could have returned the cache or put the lid back himself there would have been no problem--just another smiley in the logs and no story. It certainly would have been easier to abandon the cache and walk away, but he took it with him to ensure it was safe until he could get it to the CO. I would have done the same which is why I am intrigued by the comment.

Edited April 30, 2010 by FatCat2

[+TreeSqueezers]

If a cache needs maintenance, fixed, or if anything is wrong with it that I can fix, I do it. I would hope the etiquette for most cachers is to do the same, I would want them to do it to my cache is well.

 

This is why I carry a BUNCH of supplies with me in a bag when I cache.

 

I came on one that had a broken container but I didn't have repair equipment. I'm putting together a kit now.