Is mentioning an upcoming event in a log REALLY advertising?

February 25, 2010

I am shocked that I got this email today. You would think I was trying to advertise my Music Store that I work at, or something I would make money off. I really thinks some people complain too much, it is kind of sad. I also am surprised that I have been given less then 24 hours to go through my 125+ recent logs, and edit them appropriately.

Any ideas?

Copy of email:

It has come to our attention that there has been some advertising in your logs. This is a violation of section 4 (e) of the Terms of Use. It states:

"You agree not to:

(e) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation."

An example of this is listed here:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...36-fb76a08ac1ed

"joespaz found Holey Moley Batman, #499 (Traditional Cache)

I was out "bug hunting" today. I'll try to add comments after I find my notes.

If you are reading this I hope you can make it to the:

F.A.M.E. "Travel Bug Photoshoot" Event on Sunday February 28, 2010 GC23TCQ (visit link)"

This includes email, logs and all other forms of communication on our site. Please edit your logs to remove the text by Feb. 25th 2010, or your log may be deleted.

Please let me know if you have any questions./b]

Wish me luck...

Edited February 25, 2010 by joespaz

4.8k · February 25, 2010

Yup, you were advertising a geocaching event.

It doesn't make sense but it looks like dem are the rules guidelines.

February 25, 2010

Yup, you were advertising a geocaching event.

It doesn't make sense but it looks like dem are the rules guidelines.

So is any mention of another geocache an advertisement?

I usually include in my logs something like:

Last cache: GCXXXX (visit link)

Next cache: GCYYYY (visit link)

6.7k · February 25, 2010

It is definitely advertising.

6.7k · February 25, 2010

Yup, you were advertising a geocaching event.

It doesn't make sense but it looks like dem are the rules guidelines.

So is any mention of another geocache an advertisement?

I usually include in my logs something like:

Last cache: GCXXXX (visit link)

Next cache: GCYYYY (visit link)

It becomes advertising when you ask people to do something. In this case attend the event. It could have been buy my geocoin or custom container just as easily. Not a big deal on its own but where do they end it?

19k · February 25, 2010

What exactly does "or any other form of solicitation." mean? :laughing: I think it means, "or any other form of solicitation."

I'm guessing that nothing would have been said had you mentioned that in a log or two. But 125 logs? I think that also hits the "spam" clause pretty much on the head, as well as " promotional materials" I don't see a think there that exempts geocaching.com events or your own personal cache hides.

Posting links to previous/next logs has nothing to do with promotion.

4.2k · February 25, 2010

wth is wrong with advertising a GEOCACHING event? :laughing:

i would see a problem if it was something totally unrelated to caching

February 25, 2010

It is definitely advertising.

I got it now...

I was out "bug hunting" for some bugs to take to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photoshoot" on Sunday Feb. 28th GCXXXX (visit link), I found many along the way. TFTC

now it's not advertising?

AND isn't there a difference in inviting people to a geocaching event then non-related advertising?

14k · February 25, 2010

I am shocked that I got this email today. You would think I was trying to advertise my Music Store that I work at, or something I would make money off. I really thinks some people complain too much, it is kind of sad. I also am surprised that I have been given less then 24 hours to go through my 125+ recent logs, and edit them appropriately.

Any ideas?

Copy of email:

It has come to our attention that there has been some advertising in your logs. This is a violation of section 4 (e) of the Terms of Use. It states:

"You agree not to:

(e) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation."

An example of this is listed here:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...36-fb76a08ac1ed

"joespaz found Holey Moley Batman, #499 (Traditional Cache)

I was out "bug hunting" today. I'll try to add comments after I find my notes.

If you are reading this I hope you can make it to the:

F.A.M.E. "Travel Bug Photoshoot" Event on Sunday February 28, 2010 GC23TCQ (visit link)"

This includes email, logs and all other forms of communication on our site. Please edit your logs to remove the text by Feb. 25th 2010, or your log may be deleted.

Please let me know if you have any questions./b]

Wish me luck...

Out of curiosity, did you include the announcement in every log you posted two days ago. If so, there were 11 caches all owned by the same person that you logged that day. That means that the cache owner received 11 copies of your announcement as email messages. I'm not surprised that the CO might have complained about what they felt was an inappropriate use of the logs.

7.7k · February 25, 2010

Since it is someone at Groundspeak who defined it as advertising, nothing much of we say here matters (though it'll be interesting to see what the reviewers think of it). You may want to check with appeals@geocaching.com.

February 25, 2010

What exactly does "or any other form of solicitation." mean? I think it means, "or any other form of solicitation."

I'm guessing that nothing would have been said had you mentioned that in a log or two. But 125 logs? I think that also hits the "spam" clause pretty much on the head, as well as " promotional materials" I don't see a think there that exempts geocaching.com events or your own personal cache hides.

Posting links to previous/next logs has nothing to do with promotion.

I didn't do it in 125 logs...but I will need to search all 125 logs from over the last two months to see which ones I did and didn't do it in. I think 24 hrs to do that is unreasonable...I might not have even gotten the email in 24hrs. Luckily I did, but I think a "3 day Pay or quit" standard would be more fair.

As I said years ago...I wouldn't really know about events, especially if I was new, unless people told me, or they were very close to home. I was about 15 miles away one day finding 25 caches, and I included a note about the event...mostly so people would know about the event.

With that said I guess I am admitting that this IS advertising. But, is this really the type of advertising we don't want?

February 25, 2010

Here is a log from a different day of caching. Is this prohibited too?

Came here after taking care of my rabbits. I think I picked up two travelers here. I will be bringing them to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photo Shoot" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...29-fc80c64e2893 with me. If you're reading this log, then I hope to see you there too.

How about this?

Came here after taking care of my rabbits. I think I picked up two travelers here. I will be bringing them to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photo Shoot" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...29-fc80c64e2893 with me.

7.7k · February 25, 2010

I didn't do it in 125 logs...but I will need to search all 125 logs from over the last two months to see which ones I did and didn't do it in. I think 24 hrs to do that is unreasonable...I might not have even gotten the email in 24hrs. Luckily I did, but I think a "3 day Pay or quit" standard would be more fair.

Download "My Finds" (assuming you haven't done it recently) and search that file. If you have, then you may want to do a PQ for caches you found instead.

24 hours does seem rather extreme. You can probably email whoever notified you and ask for more time, as long as you're demonstrating that you're making an effort to comply. But that's just a guess - doesn't hurt to ask though.

9.2k · February 25, 2010

Logs should be about your experience in hunting that cache, and nothing else.

Since your logs go out to anyone watching the cache, or who have it bookmarked with the email option, or have an I.N. set for it, what you're doing is spamming all those people. Not cool.

4.8k · February 25, 2010

Let's give it a little Litmus test.

What was your reason for including that segment of text in your log?

Was it to let people know of an upcoming event?

If the answer is yes then it was advertising.

6.7k · February 25, 2010

It is definitely advertising.

I got it now...

I was out "bug hunting" for some bugs to take to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photoshoot" on Sunday Feb. 28th GCXXXX (visit link), I found many along the way. TFTC

now it's not advertising?

AND isn't there a difference in inviting people to a geocaching event then non-related advertising?

You would have to ask Groundspeak. The problem is where do they draw the line? At what point does it start being unacceptable? If I want to start selling custom cache containers can I mention it in my logs? It's geocaching related.

2k · February 25, 2010

It's one thing to say you were at an event or found a cache on the way to an event or something like that. By posting the link and stuff in your log, you look like you're using your log on someones cache page to promote the event. That rubs people the wrong way. I'm not a fan of that.

Also, Editing your log like this is kinda lame man.

joespaz found Holey Moley Batman, #499 (Traditional Cache)

Found It

(I edited this log to "Found It" because someone complained I was "advertising" by mentioning an upcoming event. Hopefully this will fix the problem.)

[This entry was edited by joespaz on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 at 4:45:59 PM.]

If I got one of your advertisement logs I would be annoyed. If you then edited out the ad and added this remark, I would think you're 'doubley' annoying. Just delete the advertising and move on.

2k · February 25, 2010

Here is a log from a different day of caching. Is this prohibited too?

Came here after taking care of my rabbits. I think I picked up two travelers here. I will be bringing them to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photo Shoot" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...29-fc80c64e2893 with me. If you're reading this log, then I hope to see you there too.

How about this?

Came here after taking care of my rabbits. I think I picked up two travelers here. I will be bringing them to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photo Shoot" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...29-fc80c64e2893 with me.

Here's what I would reccomend you write:

"Came here after taking care of my rabbits. I picked up a couple travelers here to take to an upcoming event. SL. Thanks."

38.2k · February 25, 2010

It is definitely advertising.

I got it now...

I was out "bug hunting" for some bugs to take to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photoshoot" on Sunday Feb. 28th GCXXXX (visit link), I found many along the way. TFTC

now it's not advertising?

AND isn't there a difference in inviting people to a geocaching event then non-related advertising?

You would have to ask Groundspeak. The problem is where do they draw the line? At what point does it start being unacceptable? If I want to start selling custom cache containers can I mention it in my logs? It's geocaching related.

I'm sure they draw the line when they start receiving complaints. It's not like they monitor all of the thousands of logs posted every day. Someone complained.

February 25, 2010

It is definitely advertising.

I got it now...

I was out "bug hunting" for some bugs to take to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photoshoot" on Sunday Feb. 28th GCXXXX (visit link), I found many along the way. TFTC

now it's not advertising?

AND isn't there a difference in inviting people to a geocaching event then non-related advertising?

You would have to ask Groundspeak. The problem is where do they draw the line? At what point does it start being unacceptable? If I want to start selling custom cache containers can I mention it in my logs? It's geocaching related.

I'm sure they draw the line when they start receiving complaints. It's not like they monitor all of the thousands of logs posted every day. Someone complained.

The whole situation is pitiful. I would like someone to tell me...what kind of a link in a log would NOT be advertising. It is obvious that some whiner complained about something that shouldn't be that big of a deal. I am also really disappointed that I was only given 24 hours to fix the problem.

Now...back to editing my logs

8k · February 25, 2010

Someone complained because your log was off-topic. Geocache logs are to describe you experience geocaching. I am surprised that Grounspeak sent you this email however. Instead they should've told the person who complained to delete your logs and allow to relog without the off topic remarks. If Groundspeak is going to start telling us what we can or can't put in the logs we will soon have logs that only say TFTC.

I know lots of cachers that currently log "TFTC, for mor about my experience geocahing see my blog (with link to their blog)." Is this now advertising a blog?

I might mention that I found my cache on my way to shop at WalMart. Will I now be told not to mention a store's name in the log?

I may not be able to post pictures of Cahuenga Peak anymore and say "I could see Ooper's cache today" for fear I'm advertising Ooper's cache.

Come on Groundspeak, use a little common sense. If you have some AR cache owner who can't stand that joespaz mentions his event in his logs, tell them to delete his log for being off topic. Don't start making rules that are going to effect every log. Oh no! I mustn't say that in a log or I'll get a letter from Groundspeak. TFTC. Woo! Now my log is OK.

4.8k · February 25, 2010

Joe, do yourself a favor and try to live within the same guidelines the rest of us live in.

Nothing bothers me more than when someone complains because they aren't allowed to step outside the rules.

I see a "forget it, I'm done with Geocaching" post coming up soon if you keep trying to skirt the guidelines.

Thinking to myself, this sounds a lot like the other entitlist thread we had a couple weeks ago where the guy was mad because he couldn't place a cache INSIDE the drive-in. Or the one a couple weeks before that one...

February 25, 2010

Someone complained because your log was off-topic. Geocache logs are to describe you experience geocaching. I am surprised that Grounspeak sent you this email however. Instead they should've told the person who complained to delete your logs and allow to relog without the off topic remarks. If Groundspeak is going to start telling us what we can or can't put in the logs we will soon have logs that only say TFTC.

I know lots of cachers that currently log "TFTC, for mor about my experience geocahing see my blog (with link to their blog)." Is this now advertising a blog?

I might mention that I found my cache on my way to shop at WalMart. Will I now be told not to mention a store's name in the log?

I may not be able to post pictures of Cahuenga Peak anymore and say "I could see Ooper's cache today" for fear I'm advertising Ooper's cache.

Come on Groundspeak, use a little common sense. If you have some AR cache owner who can't stand that joespaz mentions his event in his logs, tell them to delete his log for being off topic. Don't start making rules that are going to effect every log. Oh no! I mustn't say that in a log or I'll get a letter from Groundspeak. TFTC. Woo! Now my log is OK.

I think you have stated my feelings to the mark! Thank you.

19k · February 25, 2010

The whole situation is pitiful. I would like someone to tell me...what kind of a link in a log would NOT be advertising. It is obvious that some whiner complained about something that shouldn't be that big of a deal. I am also really disappointed that I was only given 24 hours to fix the problem.

Now...back to editing my logs

Some "whiner" complained because you used his cache as a platform to advertise your event rather than to comment on his cache. Forget the link. The weekly geocaching newsletter will let them know of the event, as well as word of mouth and premium member's notifications.

You might want to take a look at how Mega events such as Geowoodstock are promoted if you really feel that your event needs more promotion than that. Dirigibles and billboards are always a possibility.

February 25, 2010

The whole situation is pitiful. I would like someone to tell me...what kind of a link in a log would NOT be advertising. It is obvious that some whiner complained about something that shouldn't be that big of a deal. I am also really disappointed that I was only given 24 hours to fix the problem.

Now...back to editing my logs

Some "whiner" complained because you used his cache as a platform to advertise your event rather than to comment on his cache. Forget the link. The weekly geocaching newsletter will let them know of the event, as well as word of mouth and premium member's notifications.
You might want to take a look at how Mega events such as Geowoodstock are promoted if you really feel that your event needs more promotion than that. Dirigibles and billboards are always a possibility.

Old log:

No school on Tuesdays so I checked the local area for caches with TB's. I made a nice circle around Fremont and Union City then home. I'll be taking any TB's I find to the to the F.A.M.E. "Travel Bug Photo Shoot" (GC23TCQ) http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...29-fc80c64e2893 with me. Read on to enjoy my adventures for the day:

iCache - Fremont: I knew exactly what parking lot to drive to to retrieve this cache, as any one from the neighborhood would. I parked a little farther then need be, but I didn't see anyone around anyways. Once at GZ I was surprised by the packaging the cache was in. I am really afraid this will get extremely wet when the rains come. It might be a good idea to put the existing container into a quart sized zip lock bag. In side the packaging was another really cool container choise. While I was there I retrieved TB21FE3 Keruso's Rocket Car http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.as...8f-3552a45434f9 and will take it to the F.A.M.E. "Travel Bug Photo Shoot" (GC23TCQ) http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...29-fc80c64e2893 with me.

Next cache for me today: Oh Tannenbaum, Oh Tannenbaum (GC1JBY2) http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-cb276df87acf

Previous cache for me today: Saint Joseph's 36th Birthday Cake: (GCN5YF) http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...6e-75b67797ed0b

New log:

Found it

Now there is no reason to complain. Woo Hoo! LOL...now I'm a whiner.

Edited February 25, 2010 by joespaz

2k · February 25, 2010

...now I'm a whiner.

yep

19k · February 25, 2010

New log:Found it

Now there is no reason to complain. Woo Hoo! LOL...now I'm a whiner.

Yes, you are. Your way or the highway, huh? OK.

4.8k · February 25, 2010

New log:Found it

Now there is no reason to complain. Woo Hoo! LOL...now I'm a whiner.

Yes, you are. Your way or the highway, huh? OK.

OMG!!!

Wait for it.....

I agree with you.

5.8k · February 25, 2010

I'm going to venture a guess that there was ONE player who sent a complaint, and only the complaining party will delete your log. It says that your logs MAY be deleted. To me that means that GC staff will ALLOW it to be deleted of the CO wants. I don't read this to mean that GC will delete all your logs. One approach would be to just wait for the log deletion notices, and click the link(to the Ccahe page) in any notices that come, then resubmit the log in a non offending manner.

5.2k · February 25, 2010

One approach would be to just wait for the log deletion notices, and click the link(to the Cache page) in any notices that come, then resubmit the log in a non offending manner.

Exactly what I was thinking.

February 25, 2010

One approach would be to just wait for the log deletion notices, and click the link(to the Cache page) in any notices that come, then resubmit the log in a non offending manner.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Thanks for the suggestion. Too bad I already deleted about 20 log entries that included interesting stories. How sad it is that some people have to take things to the extreme.

(So I say as I look in the mirror)

February 25, 2010

MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE SENT ME THIS EMAIL INSTEAD:

It has come to our attention that there has been some advertising in your logs. This is a violation of section 4 (e) of the Terms of Use. It states:

"You agree not to:

(e) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation."

An example of this is listed here:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...36-fb76a08ac1ed

"joespaz found Holey Moley Batman, #499 (Traditional Cache)

I was out "bug hunting" today. I'll try to add comments after I find my notes.

If you are reading this I hope you can make it to the:

F.A.M.E. "Travel Bug Photoshoot" Event on Sunday February 28, 2010 GC23TCQ (visit link)"

This includes email, logs and all other forms of communication on our site. Cache owners have permission to delete logs that violate the guidelines. To remedy this situation you may either edit your current logs, or re-log them without violating the terms if they are deleted.

DOESN'T THIS SOUND LESS THREATENING?

Edited February 25, 2010 by joespaz

4.8k · February 25, 2010

MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE SENT ME THIS EMAIL INSTEAD:

It has come to our attention that there has been some advertising in your logs. This is a violation of section 4 (e) of the Terms of Use. It states:

"You agree not to:

(e) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation."

An example of this is listed here:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...36-fb76a08ac1ed

"joespaz found Holey Moley Batman, #499 (Traditional Cache)

I was out "bug hunting" today. I'll try to add comments after I find my notes.

If you are reading this I hope you can make it to the:

F.A.M.E. "Travel Bug Photoshoot" Event on Sunday February 28, 2010 GC23TCQ (visit link)"

This includes email, logs and all other forms of communication on our site. Cache owners have permission to delete logs that violate the guidelines. To remedy this situation you may either edit your current logs, or re-log them without violating the terms if they are deleted.

DOESN'T THIS SOUND LESS THREATENING?

Yes, dear.

It's not your fault.

Come over here. Let mommy rub your back a little.

That's alright, dear....

19k · February 25, 2010

New log:Found it

Now there is no reason to complain. Woo Hoo! LOL...now I'm a whiner.

Yes, you are. Your way or the highway, huh? OK.

OMG!!!

Wait for it.....

I agree with you.

Can I change my mind? :lol:

February 25, 2010

Been reading along with this thread and hesitate to add, but while I understand some people just don't like rules (and I respect that right) lets not forget whose sandbox we are playing in. We can all go to another site and play, but this is Groundspeaks site, their Guidelines, their forum, ect. Way I see it its their way or the highway.? (though I dont really see them being that harsh about it) just my two bits worth

February 25, 2010

Been reading along with this thread and hesitate to add, but while I understand some people just don't like rules (and I respect that right) lets not forget whose sandbox we are playing in. We can all go to another site and play, but this is Groundspeaks site, their Guidelines, their forum, ect. Way I see it its their way or the highway.? (though I dont really see them being that harsh about it) just my two bits worth

NOTE: I am willing to agree that my link to the event. I guess I titled the discussion wrong. I should have started with "What kind of advertising should be allowed in cache logs?"

I wouldn't mind if they played consistently.

What about the "Eat, Stay, Play" deal...isn't that advertising? To get a free "Eat, Stay, Play" geocoin, you must drop their tokens in caches, then mention doing so in your logs.

What about people that say "If you liked this cache, try and find this other cache GCXXXX (visit link)"

10.2k · February 25, 2010

It is definitely advertising.

I got it now...

I was out "bug hunting" for some bugs to take to the "F.A.M.E. Travel Bug Photoshoot" on Sunday Feb. 28th GCXXXX (visit link), I found many along the way. TFTC

now it's not advertising?

AND isn't there a difference in inviting people to a geocaching event then non-related advertising?

You would have to ask Groundspeak. The problem is where do they draw the line? At what point does it start being unacceptable? If I want to start selling custom cache containers can I mention it in my logs? It's geocaching related.

I'm sure they draw the line when they start receiving complaints. It's not like they monitor all of the thousands of logs posted every day. Someone complained.

Yeah, bottom line, someone complained. I've seen many an event "advertised" in logs. Although I myself thought it to be somewhat obnoxious, I'd never complain, and I'm sure most people wouldn't either.

I've even seen caches placed by multiple cachers to "advertise" an event. Haven't seen that in a couple of years though, maybe they clamped down on that. Or maybe they didn't, who knows.

Either way, someone complained. :lol:

6.7k · February 25, 2010

Been reading along with this thread and hesitate to add, but while I understand some people just don't like rules (and I respect that right) lets not forget whose sandbox we are playing in. We can all go to another site and play, but this is Groundspeaks site, their Guidelines, their forum, ect. Way I see it its their way or the highway.? (though I dont really see them being that harsh about it) just my two bits worth

NOTE: I am willing to agree that my link to the event. I guess I titled the discussion wrong. I should have started with "What kind of advertising should be allowed in cache logs?"

I wouldn't mind if they played consistently.

What about the "Eat, Stay, Play" deal...isn't that advertising? To get a free "Eat, Stay, Play" geocoin, you must drop their tokens in caches, then mention doing so in your logs.

What about people that say "If you liked this cache, try and find this other cache GCXXXX (visit link)"

I absolutely hate those little plastic pieces of never mind. But they are in a cache and not on the cache page. Makes a big difference.

The big difference between someone saying "If you liked this cache, try and find this other cache GCXXXX (visit link)" and you promoting the event is that someone probably complained about your logs. Do you want to be that guy?

6k · February 25, 2010

Save yourself a lot of trouble. Wait for the offending log to be deleted. You will get an email notifying of that and then relog it w/o the offending comment.

Not need to do a big search and find.

February 25, 2010

I've decided that the best thing I could do is play the way I wish others did:

Clean up a cache that needs help whenever I can.

CITO as often as possible.

Leave interesting logs at the cache site AND online.

Hide the type of caches that I would enjoy looking for.

Add a gaol tag to TB's that don't have one.

Maybe if I play the game this way, I will enjoy it more.

Thank you all for your input! I have learned a lot...I hope.

8k · February 25, 2010

It's clear the the TOU are meant to prevent spammers from using geocaching logs to send spam. What's not clear is why saying something about your upcoming event is spam.

Many geocachers have blogs. They put links to their blog in their logs. Is this going to be considered spam and no longer allowed?

Many geocachers mention a local geocaching group in their logs. Is this going to be considered spam and no longer allowed?

I have a running shtick of posting picture from the cache site of Cahuenga Peak (when you can see it from the cache - which is the case for a great deal of the Los Angeles area) and mentioning my cache there. Will this be considered spam from now on?

Once upon a time - not so long ago - Groundspeak would say "We are not going to be the cache police. It is up to the cache owner to decide if a log needs to be deleted." I suppose if someone saw a cache that had some not so family friendly language or outright commercial advertising and the cache owner was ignoring it - you could get a reviewer or Groundspeak lackey to remove the offensive log, but these cases seemed to be rare.

Somewhere along the line Groundspeak's attitude changed. They started becoming cache log cops (or at least the judge and jury). The began archiving (mainly virtual) caches where the cache owner wasn't deleting bogus logs. Then they told cache owners that they could not delete logs solely on the basis of some Additional Logging Requirement. Perhaps they always sent letters to spammers - I don't know. But at least the definition of spam seem to limited to commercial messages or non-geocaching related agendas. I would never imagine that you couldn't say "Hope to see you at my XYZ event next month" with a link to the event page. But this thread shows the either I was wrong or Groundspeak has changed their position. Either way it shows that Groundspeak has decided to be more active in policing logs. One of the cool things used to be that Groundspeak treated cachers with respect and expected cache owners and loggers would work out disputes without the frog's involvement. Only in rare instances would the frog get involved. It seems that this is no longer the case. Now as soon as someone complains, out comes the threatening emails, either to the cache owner or the cache logger, laying down the frog's law. No longer are cache owners trusted as they once were.

4.8k · February 25, 2010

It's clear the the TOU are meant to prevent spammers from using geocaching logs to send spam. What's not clear is why saying something about your upcoming event is spam.

Many geocachers have blogs. They put links to their blog in their logs. Is this going to be considered spam and no longer allowed?

Many geocachers mention a local geocaching group in their logs. Is this going to be considered spam and no longer allowed?

I have a running shtick of posting picture from the cache site of Cahuenga Peak (when you can see it from the cache - which is the case for a great deal of the Los Angeles area) and mentioning my cache there. Will this be considered spam from now on?

Once upon a time - not so long ago - Groundspeak would say "We are not going to be the cache police. It is up to the cache owner to decide if a log needs to be deleted." I suppose if someone saw a cache that had some not so family friendly language or outright commercial advertising and the cache owner was ignoring it - you could get a reviewer or Groundspeak lackey to remove the offensive log, but these cases seemed to be rare.

Somewhere along the line Groundspeak's attitude changed. They started becoming cache log cops (or at least the judge and jury). The began archiving (mainly virtual) caches where the cache owner wasn't deleting bogus logs. Then they told cache owners that they could not delete logs solely on the basis of some Additional Logging Requirement. Perhaps they always sent letters to spammers - I don't know. But at least the definition of spam seem to limited to commercial messages or non-geocaching related agendas. I would never imagine that you couldn't say "Hope to see you at my XYZ event next month" with a link to the event page. But this thread shows the either I was wrong or Groundspeak has changed their position. Either way it shows that Groundspeak has decided to be more active in policing logs. One of the cool things used to be that Groundspeak treated cachers with respect and expected cache owners and loggers would work out disputes without the frog's involvement. Only in rare instances would the frog get involved. It seems that this is no longer the case. Now as soon as someone complains, out comes the threatening emails, either to the cache owner or the cache logger, laying down the frog's law. No longer are cache owners trusted as they once were.

I tend to agree with this but will add that it appears that Groundspeaks control isn't being limited to just caches but every aspect of the hobby.

Whether it's cache placement, spam rules or access to the site by 3rd party apps, it appears that we are being micromanaged.

As I have said many times before, this isn't my company so I can't say how they run it. If they wanted to run it into the ground, there's nothing I could do or say. I play by the rules (sometimes just by a hair) but that doesn't mean I necessarily like the way things are being done. It would be nice if we could have a few more of the freedoms that I've heard of back in the old days.

February 25, 2010

It's clear the the TOU are meant to prevent spammers from using geocaching logs to send spam. What's not clear is why saying something about your upcoming event is spam.

Many geocachers have blogs. They put links to their blog in their logs. Is this going to be considered spam and no longer allowed?

Many geocachers mention a local geocaching group in their logs. Is this going to be considered spam and no longer allowed?

I have a running shtick of posting picture from the cache site of Cahuenga Peak (when you can see it from the cache - which is the case for a great deal of the Los Angeles area) and mentioning my cache there. Will this be considered spam from now on?

Once upon a time - not so long ago - Groundspeak would say "We are not going to be the cache police. It is up to the cache owner to decide if a log needs to be deleted." I suppose if someone saw a cache that had some not so family friendly language or outright commercial advertising and the cache owner was ignoring it - you could get a reviewer or Groundspeak lackey to remove the offensive log, but these cases seemed to be rare.

Somewhere along the line Groundspeak's attitude changed. They started becoming cache log cops (or at least the judge and jury). The began archiving (mainly virtual) caches where the cache owner wasn't deleting bogus logs. Then they told cache owners that they could not delete logs solely on the basis of some Additional Logging Requirement. Perhaps they always sent letters to spammers - I don't know. But at least the definition of spam seem to limited to commercial messages or non-geocaching related agendas. I would never imagine that you couldn't say "Hope to see you at my XYZ event next month" with a link to the event page. But this thread shows the either I was wrong or Groundspeak has changed their position. Either way it shows that Groundspeak has decided to be more active in policing logs. One of the cool things used to be that Groundspeak treated cachers with respect and expected cache owners and loggers would work out disputes without the frog's involvement. Only in rare instances would the frog get involved. It seems that this is no longer the case. Now as soon as someone complains, out comes the threatening emails, either to the cache owner or the cache logger, laying down the frog's law. No longer are cache owners trusted as they once were.

You state my feelings better then I ever could.

7.7k · February 25, 2010

It's clear the the TOU are meant to prevent spammers from using geocaching logs to send spam. What's not clear is why saying something about your upcoming event is spam.

Which is why I suggested writing to appeals@geocaching.com way up there. At least it will help clarify.

February 25, 2010

So is any mention of another geocache an advertisement?

I usually include in my logs something like:

Last cache: GCXXXX (visit link)

Next cache: GCYYYY (visit link)

I don't think so. People do that all the time.

I suppose this is why some people only put TNLNSL or TFTC in their logs. It's not because they don't want to type too much, it's because they don't want to spend hours looking over the rules to make sure anything else they enter doesn't contravene them.

And Guidelines is just a politically correct way of saying Rules.

5.3k · February 25, 2010

I suppose this is why some people only put TNLNSL or TFTC in their logs. It's not because they don't want to type too much, it's because they don't want to spend hours looking over the rules to make sure anything else they enter doesn't contravene them.

Oh, come on.

That is the lamest excuse I have ever heard. Really.

6.1k · February 25, 2010

If you had just mentioned the event casually I don't think anyone would mind. It's the repetitious copy and paste along with the tone that triggers the annoyance factor. It's more about the commercial language used than about exactly what was said. Sounds like a good event though. :lol:

38.2k · February 25, 2010

Someone complained because your log was off-topic. Geocache logs are to describe you experience geocaching. I am surprised that Grounspeak sent you this email however. Instead they should've told the person who complained to delete your logs and allow to relog without the off topic remarks. If Groundspeak is going to start telling us what we can or can't put in the logs we will soon have logs that only say TFTC.

I know lots of cachers that currently log "TFTC, for mor about my experience geocahing see my blog (with link to their blog)." Is this now advertising a blog?

I might mention that I found my cache on my way to shop at WalMart. Will I now be told not to mention a store's name in the log?

I may not be able to post pictures of Cahuenga Peak anymore and say "I could see Ooper's cache today" for fear I'm advertising Ooper's cache.

Come on Groundspeak, use a little common sense. If you have some AR cache owner who can't stand that joespaz mentions his event in his logs, tell them to delete his log for being off topic. Don't start making rules that are going to effect every log. Oh no! I mustn't say that in a log or I'll get a letter from Groundspeak. TFTC. Woo! Now my log is OK.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Groundspeak has never had an issue with this kind of stuff in the logs and I don't see that changing. I suspect that neither do you, and are engaging in hyperbole for a purpose known only to you.

If the OP mentioned the event in one log there never would have been an issue. He was putting it in nearly every log. It's a matter of degree.

Edited February 25, 2010 by briansnat

4.2k · February 25, 2010

New log:Found it

Now there is no reason to complain. Woo Hoo! LOL...now I'm a whiner.

Yes, you are. Your way or the highway, huh? OK.

...I agree with you.

Did the lion just lyeth with the lamb?

I have to admit, that I've never really thought about mentioning an event in a cache log as advertisement. For some reason that seems kind of strange- can't have have events for the sole purpose of caching, okay I'm on board. Can't mention an event in a cache log, okay sure. I mean I can see how it would be annoying across multiple logs, but I don't know. Seems kind of counter-intuitive. So I'm not trying to support the OP's angst but I'm not really sure why I should disagree with him either.

I'm gonna go think about it and wait for this migraine to go away.

6.7k · February 25, 2010

I have to agree with those who think this issue is counter-intuitive, but it's the law of the land so go with it.

I got my hand slapped years ago when I hosted an event; I went through the logs on caches in the area looking for names I had never heard of and sent them a PM inviting them to the event.

Someone complained that my invitation was unwanted spam and Groundspeak sent me a shouldna-done-it email telling me to cease and desist.

I thought that it was a great way to alert cachers to an upcoming event who may not read the event calendar, but... not.

Oh well. :lol:

Is mentioning an upcoming event in a log REALLY advertising?

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