Logging could not finds

[+all done]

I'm sure this has been asked before or can be read somewhere but, what is the proper etiquette on logging could not finds, for example the reason I ask is we have had a few micros that we could not find but we pretty much assume that it is just our rookieness or our desire to not spend too much time on one hide. By reading the logs before and after our could not find we have determined that the cache is there we just couldn't find it so we don't log the could not find. I assume that the could not finds are to alert to a possible problem and not neccessarily to say "we lost the battle and just couldn't find it" opinions...........

[+Prime Suspect]

I'm sure this has been asked before or can be read somewhere but, what is the proper etiquette on logging could not finds, for example the reason I ask is we have had a few micros that we could not find but we pretty much assume that it is just our rookieness or our desire to not spend too much time on one hide. By reading the logs before and after our could not find we have determined that the cache is there we just couldn't find it so we don't log the could not find. I assume that the could not finds are to alert to a possible problem and not neccessarily to say "we lost the battle and just couldn't find it" opinions...........

By all means, log your DNFs. It can also clue in the cache owner that they may have the cache rated wrong.

[+SilentWolf]

The only time I don't log a DNF is if my search was cut short for some reason, be it muggle or whatever. I always log my DNF's if I was indeed not able to find it - I have maybe not as many DNF's as finds, but close. I'm not afraid to admit I didn't find something. In fact, at least 3 or 4 of my DNF's were verified missing by the cache owner after my log, so it helps everyone in the long run. The next guy/gal won't have to waste time looking for it just because I was too chicken not to log it.

[+briansnat]

I assume that the could not finds are to alert to a possible problem and not neccessarily to say "we lost the battle and just couldn't find it" opinions...........

 

It simply means you searched and didn't find it, so it could be either.

 

Your DNF could alert the owner to a possible problem or it could alert him to the fact that perhaps he didn't rate it correctly. Or it could mean nothing more than you just couldn't find it.

 

I think if you hunt a cache and come up empty you should log your DNF. The reason is irrelevant.

[+FatherAndProgeny]

I always log my DNFs as I like a record of what I did/did no do. Also I believe the cache owners like to know when people attempt there cache even if not found just to know that someone thought their cache was worth finding.

[+kunarion]

we have had a few micros that we could not find but we pretty much assume that it is just our rookieness

Log your DNF, and attribute it to the rookieness (so you don't alarm the Cache Owner like I always seem to do). But you can also keep trying to find those demonic little things, if you enjoy the challenge. With experience, you'll probably get very good at finding them.

Edited October 23, 2009 by kunarion

[+racingmissy]

If a cache was a 6 stage multi and you were only able to find 4 before it got so dark you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and you plan on going back to finish in a few days would you still log DNF?

[+Crafty Turtle]

Do log the DNF. Do explain why. It either circumstance (muggles, fading daylight, started to rain, ran out of time, etc) or it is your own newbie-ness (we don't know whether we are permitted to walk on the flowerbeds, we didn't have boots to wade across the creek, we are getting used to a new GPS, etc)

The CO is interested in your reason, and so are other cachers. And so are you! A record goes in your profile page - you can refer back to your previous DNFs and re-visit them later.

 

If you want to ask questions of the cache owner, then do so in a private message. Try not to put spoilers in the log.

 

You might have a 50/50 find/DNF rate early on in your career. Don't worry about it. 5 DNFs out of 10 caches is pretty common. You are new to this.

OTOH, if you've got 50 DNFs out of 100 caches, then you have a problem.

 

The only times I don't log a DNF is when I plan to return - eg the next day, to continue my search.

Everyone is different.

[+kunarion]

If a cache was a 6 stage multi and you were only able to find 4 before it got so dark you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and you plan on going back to finish in a few days would you still log DNF?

I’d do a “note” for that situation. Then I’d DNF only after finally finishing all 6 stages to discover that the Final has been stolen.

 

I’ve always wondered about all those puzzle caches. If I’m lost just looking at the page, do I log a “Too Stupid To Understand This Puzzle”? I don’t see anybody else doing that, and “Monkey Not See, Monkey Not Do”.

 

OK, I've seen it once.

Edited October 23, 2009 by kunarion

[+niraD]

If a cache was a 6 stage multi and you were only able to find 4 before it got so dark you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and you plan on going back to finish in a few days would you still log DNF?

I've logged notes in such situations. I'd log a DNF if I couldn't find a stage (whether it's the final or one of the earlier stages). But if I had time for only some of the stages, or if the final is 20 miles away, or something like that, then I log a note.

[+burtsbodgers]

If a cache was a 6 stage multi and you were only able to find 4 before it got so dark you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and you plan on going back to finish in a few days would you still log DNF?

I would but only if i had searched for them, if i had not looked because i ran out of daylight/ time then i would not. I would then note this in the logs for the ones found saying i would return for the others.

[+briansnat]

If a cache was a 6 stage multi and you were only able to find 4 before it got so dark you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and you plan on going back to finish in a few days would you still log DNF?

 

I do. I started the hunt and didn't find the cache. Some others would log a note. Whatever you do log something. Most cache owners want to know that someone is out there looking.

 

Log your DNF, and attribute it to the rookieness (so you don't alarm the Cache Owner like I always seem to do).

 

No need to even do that. Cache owners know. When I get a DNF log one of the first things I check is to see how experienced the logger is. If he has a half dozen finds I will note the DNF but I won't be alarmed. If I see a DNF on a supposedly easy cache from someone with thousands of finds I'll be more concerned.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I assume that the could not finds are to alert to a possible problem and not neccessarily to say "we lost the battle and just couldn't find it" opinions..

 

Online logging is a sort of running blog of your caching experiences. You can chose to log whatever you want. Some people think of DNFs as a failure, and prefer not to advertise them, or aren't interested in taking the time, or don't want to alarm others. Some people think you ought to log something every time you hunt. A DNF or a note, or something for each hunt, as a courtesy to the cache owner.

I used to do this, but have become a moderately lazy online logger. I log the stuff I want to remember. I'm not logging some DNFs, and I'm not logging some finds. It's your call.

I wouldn't worry about "alarming the owner" regardless of your experience or lack thereof.

[+AbMagFab]

I always log a DNF if I went to the cache and tried to find it and failed. Of course, at the time I always feel like it's missing, but most of the time it's just my inexperience or inability to see it.

 

For multis, this only applies if I made it to the end.

 

For puzzles, if I'm still trying to solve it, I don't post anything. If I give up trying to solve it, I might post a note, or do nothing. If I solve it and can't find the cache, it's a DNF.

 

Post them!

[+jhauser42]

If a cache was a 6 stage multi and you were only able to find 4 before it got so dark you couldn't see your hand in front of your face and you plan on going back to finish in a few days would you still log DNF?

 

I also log a note in this situation. I feel that the CO would like to know that someone was out looking at the cache as these big multi's do not get a lot of traffic. However, if I will post a DNF on it if I search for a specific stage and could not find that. It is just as easy for an early stage to go missing as it is for the final.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

The only times I don't log a DNF is when I plan to return - eg the next day, to continue my search.

Everyone is different.

 

We still log that DNF. It's not like it is a score "against" you! Nor, as many, do we edit the DNF once we do make the find. We feel it should remain as part of the cache's history.

[+flask]

i notice that the OP uses the language "could not find", which i think is the root of the problem. it's "did not find".

 

there's an implied failure in "could not find", and people would be less likely to want to "admit defeat". think of it as the more properly neutral "did not find". it's just that: you didn't find it. it don't matter why.

[+kunarion]

If he has a half dozen finds I will note the DNF but I won't be alarmed. If I see a DNF on a supposedly easy cache from someone with thousands of finds I'll be more concerned.

That's a relief.

 

A few weeks ago, I logged my 3rd DNF on a cache (well, the first 2 were “notes”, since I was so thick, I hadn’t even gotten to the point of searching yet). Cache Owner then went out there to check on this relatively easy (and kinda sneaky) cache. I could chalk that up to diligent CO maintenance, but it looked like I’d put a doubt into the CO’s mind, so they had to run out there and check. Since then, in my log I attribute it to my rookieness. Latent rookieness… Let’s just say my inability to find some easy caches.

 

It's not like it is a score "against" you! Nor, as many, do we edit the DNF once we do make the find. We feel it should remain as part of the cache's history.

Yes, please. My "Micro" is in arm's reach from a paved trail, and still several people Did Not Find. But some removed the DNF upon finding it. It's both tough to guage if I should adjust the difficulty stars, and hard to explain to people that it is a tricky cache, without those DNFs showing.

Edited October 23, 2009 by kunarion

[knowschad]

To add a point to what the others have said, your "rookieness" will be apparent to the cache owner and others because they can see the number of finds you have, and will be taken into account, so don't worry about that part, either.

[+all done]

thanks to all for the comments/advice etc. I guess I'll get cracking and log our "did not find".

[+briansnat]

thanks to all for the comments/advice etc. I guess I'll get cracking and log our "did not find".

 

A benefit of logging a DNF is that the owner will sometimes contact you and offer a better hint.

[+Curioddity]

I'd like to point out something from the other side of the coin:

 

When I was fairly new to caching I'd usually not even bother to look for a cache if the last log entry (or several) were DNFs. I just assumed that they were either gone or too tough for me. But then I started occasionally caching with a fellow who took extra pleasure in finding caches with lots of DNFs and even disabled and archived caches and some of his enthusiasm for finding them rubbed off on me.

 

Since then I've never ignored a cache simply because it has recent DNFs in the log, and I find quite a few of them. Not all, but quite a few, and I have to confess to getting a little more pleasure out of finding them versus the caches everyone can find.

 

Pete

[+kunarion]

I've never ignored a cache simply because it has recent DNFs in the log, and I find quite a few of them. Not all, but quite a few, and I have to confess to getting a little more pleasure out of finding them versus the caches everyone can find.

That's a good idea, Pete! There was a new cache, where the power hunters logged DNFs, and I realized they were all on the wrong side of the street (bad coordinates, good cache description). You can sometimes use DNF as a guide to where not to look.

[+eflyguy]

Right or wrong, if I've given up on a cache I'll log a DNF, but if I'm intent on coming back and finding it and just don't have time to keep looking, I won't log it..

 

We have some evil puzzles close by..

..a

[+Azaray]

If you post a DNF that is later found, can you edit the log when it is found?

[+kunarion]

If you post a DNF that is later found, can you edit the log when it is found?

I’ve edited some previous logs, to add something I forgot, correct errors, get rid of something that gives away too much of the secret to the location, or to clarify what I meant to say. I deleted my first DNF, and then found out why it’s a great idea to leave them. And boy do I ever leave DNFs now.

 

So, yes. You can edit your DNF. There doesn’t seem to be a restriction on the ability to do so (as there is in the forums). But when you’re making your new “Found It” log, you can type what you want to say there, instead. Since the logs are in a timeline, it makes them easier to follow if you add your new text to a new log.

Edited October 29, 2009 by kunarion

[+SkellyCA]

If you post a DNF that is later found, can you edit the log when it is found?

 

It's better to make a whole new log entry and let the DNF as part of the cache history.

[+briansnat]

If you post a DNF that is later found, can you edit the log when it is found?

 

You can, but what would the point be? The logs are part of the cache's history. Other geocachers look at them to determine the real difficulty of a cache. Lots of DNFs show that the cache is a tough one no matter what the difficulty rating is. Few or no DNFs and you can usually tell its an easy one even if the owner gave it 4 stars.

 

Also, the owner doesn't get notification of your find if you edit the log. So if your DNF caused him to decide to head out to check on the cache, he won't know you found it without looking at the cache page. He might wind up making an unnecessary trip to the cache.

[+Curioddity]

Lots of DNFs show that the cache is a tough one no matter what the difficulty rating is. Few or no DNFs and you can usually tell its an easy one even if the owner gave it 4 stars.

That's how it's supposed to be but not how it is. I only have one hide so far and it only has a few finds and one DNF. Last weekend I went to two events which were also attended by many of the local active cachers and it became apparent why so few of them had log entrys for my cache: Almost all of them did look for it but didn't find it, and none of them posted DNFs. I know this now because they all asked me for additional hints.

 

I had no idea that my cache was so hard to find. I thought I had all but spoiled it in my hint, but apparently their minds don't work the same way mine does (which probably isn't such a bad thing). Anyway, now my plan is to adjust the difficulty rating and maybe tweak the hint a little, but I could and would have done that long ago if people had been logging their DNFs.

 

'Nuff outta me.

 

Pete