Jump to content

Garmin Oregon, Dakota, Colorado -- Custom Raster Map support!


Followers 21

Recommended Posts

 

Here's for Nevada.

 

Nevada NAIP

 

Here's California.

 

California NAIP

 

These are very large files.

 

They certainly are. 6 hours and 13G for a single county in Nevada.

 

I wonder if those who complained about the time/size when it was a Delorme thing will now complain about the time/size when it hs to do with their ability to use? :mad: THAT is one HUGE file for a single county...OUCH! Tell me, at that rate, what would it take for all of Navada??

Link to comment

 

I wonder if those who complained about the time/size when it was a Delorme thing will now complain about the time/size when it hs to do with their ability to use? B) THAT is one HUGE file for a single county...OUCH! Tell me, at that rate, what would it take for all of Navada??

 

This is not a Delorme v Garmin thread.. please.

 

The reason people "complained" about raster size was if that was THE ONLY OPTION..which for Delorme and Canadian maps (for example) it is. Yuck. We now have a choice between vector (topo, and high accuracy road maps) and raster (for which I expect a large community library to appear). PS we can also use SD cards :mad:.

Link to comment

So..who is setting up the free community map repository? C'mon! :mad:

 

http://gpsfiledepot.com ?

 

I was thinking about this last night. I can't imagine it's going to take long for folks to want to share USGS topos and aerial photos for some national parks, etc.

 

Also, does anyone know if there is a way to use imagery available through .kmz files already posted to the Web?

Link to comment

 

I wonder if those who complained about the time/size when it was a Delorme thing will now complain about the time/size when it hs to do with their ability to use? :) THAT is one HUGE file for a single county...OUCH! Tell me, at that rate, what would it take for all of Navada??

 

This is not a Delorme v Garmin thread.. please.

 

The reason people "complained" about raster size was if that was THE ONLY OPTION..which for Delorme and Canadian maps (for example) it is. Yuck. We now have a choice between vector (topo, and high accuracy road maps) and raster (for which I expect a large community library to appear). PS we can also use SD cards B).

 

I don't believe I was saying anything to that level, but your reply seem to try to push it to that, I merely wondered out loud if there'd be the same outcry. Sorry if my comments upset you, but I have legit questions and comments which don't need to be treated as usual (being attributed to being a fan of DeLorme). Seems you were awful quick to assume this was anything but what I was observing....and to defend?

 

And for the record, it certainly wasn't only the Canadians complaining so no, that wasn't "the reason"....at least not the only one.

 

Funny though, we said the same thing about the SD cards.... :mad:

 

Back to my concerns...I am happy to hear Garmin jumped up with some imagery support as this, but as I read it, the sizes sound WAY worse than what DeLorme already has AND it sounds like there's a limit to what amount can be used? Can anyone tell me how much the aerial imagery slows their redraws? What would it take to map a state (SD wise)? And, I wonder how routing will work with a map being scanned and then shot to the unit...wouldn't there need to be more work in order for it to be accurate? (forgive me, I am NOT techy and these are honest questions I have concern about).

 

Sounds like Garmin has made a lot of users very happy, I just wonder how usuable all this will really be...

Edited by Rockin Roddy
Link to comment

So..who is setting up the free community map repository? C'mon! :mad:

 

http://gpsfiledepot.com ?

 

I was thinking about this last night. I can't imagine it's going to take long for folks to want to share USGS topos and aerial photos for some national parks, etc.

 

Also, does anyone know if there is a way to use imagery available through .kmz files already posted to the Web?

 

GPS visualizer overlay kml I linked above is the closest thing I've found so far, it isn't 100% automated but you can get topo and b/w ortho images on pretty easily. You just need to save the file to disk and relink it in the overlay to reference the local image instead of the network URL.

 

Garmin has starting to pull some examples together here:

 

https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=206

Link to comment

If I do the math using the 1 megapixel limit and assume you want good quality rendering down to the 200'-300' zoom level you can only map about 10 square miles.

 

That should have been 100 sq/miles. Garmin has confirmed that this is the practical limit given the other restrictions assuming you want good resolution on the unit down to the 200-300' zoom level. Of course you can always back off on the resolution to cover more area at the expense of not having as high a quality map at the more zoomed in levels.

Link to comment

If I do the math using the 1 megapixel limit and assume you want good quality rendering down to the 200'-300' zoom level you can only map about 10 square miles.

 

That should have been 100 sq/miles. Garmin has confirmed that this is the practical limit given the other restrictions assuming you want good resolution on the unit down to the 200-300' zoom level. Of course you can always back off on the resolution to cover more area at the expense of not having as high a quality map at the more zoomed in levels.

 

THANKS for the clarification on that, 10 miles sounded pretty scary. I wondered how good the resolution would be on this. Having just upgraded to the latest GE, I noted their quality wasn't any better than what I currently see with DeLorme's subscription and am wondering if there's better sources?

Link to comment

Lack of detail? My immediate area.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.91087+-79...003484&z=19

 

Oh, not upset, far from it. This could be a very useful thread / resource for Garmin units that now support this, didn't want it going the usual route. Maybe start a separate "My imagery is bigger than yours thread"?

 

 

Speaking of that, I still have a Delorme annual map subscription. Presumably we can grab, index those and use those as cheap source??

Link to comment

Speaking of that, I still have a Delorme annual map subscription. Presumably we can grab, index those and use those as cheap source??

Not being a lawyer, I'm not even going to try to read the subscription license agreement or terms of service or whatever. But since DeLorme goes to great lengths to lock the desktop data to your copy of Topo and the cut data to your particular unit -- you'd think there'd be something in there prohibiting this... but I don't really know.

Link to comment

Lack of detail? My immediate area.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.91087+-79...003484&z=19

 

Oh, not upset, far from it. This could be a very useful thread / resource for Garmin units that now support this, didn't want it going the usual route. Maybe start a separate "My imagery is bigger than yours thread"?

 

 

Speaking of that, I still have a Delorme annual map subscription. Presumably we can grab, index those and use those as cheap source??

 

Again, why are you assuming my questions are anything other than what I asked? Really...

 

My questions stand for anyone who could lend some insight, much appreciated!!

 

With sooo much (supposed) accessible imagery available, you'd feel the need to pirate off the DeLorme? What does that say for the imagery available? :mad:

Link to comment

No worries, not pirating, just curious about the terms. Yeh. Glancing at the Terms, certainly (and obviously) can't use for any derivative work which I would assume was for personal use as well. I get the linking of cut maps to a certain unit, people would be uploading all types of pre-cut images for people to leech off. *shrug* it's mostly public domain anyway. http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtd...p;section=10462

 

Good link embra, nice sources there.

 

(some errors in the Oregon comparison chart now.. "aerial imagery etc "needs a check, "Place data onto SD card while in the receiver" has always needed a check mark, "Waypoints: 1000", PLUS a separate "Geocaches:2000" database on the unit..so in effect, 3,000 waypoints if you like). Its a wikispaces community, right, can be edited by anyone?

Edited by Maingray
Link to comment
(some errors in the Oregon comparison chart now.. "aerial imagery etc "needs a check, "Place data onto SD card while in the receiver" has always needed a check mark, "Waypoints: 1000", PLUS a separate "Geocaches:2000" database on the unit..so in effect, 3,000 waypoints if you like). Its a wikispaces community, right, can be edited by anyone?

Absolutely; you need to join for editing privileges, but membership is routinely granted.

Link to comment

(some errors in the Oregon comparison chart now.. "aerial imagery etc "needs a check, "Place data onto SD card while in the receiver" has always needed a check mark, "Waypoints: 1000", PLUS a separate "Geocaches:2000" database on the unit..so in effect, 3,000 waypoints if you like). Its a wikispaces community, right, can be edited by anyone?

Edits are restricted to members of the wiki, but we take all comers :mad: In fact, you are already a member -- so feel free.

Link to comment

What does that say for the imagery available? :mad:

 

Nothing. It just says that DeLorme is a convenient aggregator.

 

I'm trying to understand this, please don't see this as anything but the question it is. Reading through the thread, I see many saying the imagery is out there freely to use and is easy to acquire. Then I see you say DeLorme is the convenient aggregator. Which is it? Isn't the imagery that easy to get? Is it because the info on DeLorme is already set up, is this why it's so easy?

 

I also wonder, so many have railed that the imagery from DeLorme is junk (well, that might be strongly worded, but you know what I'm getting at), this is why I asked what this says for DeLorme's imagery.

 

ANYWAY, back to the questions on hand...well, let me ask a few anyway...

 

Can all of Nevada be mapped or is the limit going to not make this possible (I'm not understanding the limitation...not the SD card limits mind you)? Also, how many SD cards would it take?

Link to comment

Lack of detail? My immediate area.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.91087+-79...003484&z=19

 

Oh, not upset, far from it. This could be a very useful thread / resource for Garmin units that now support this, didn't want it going the usual route. Maybe start a separate "My imagery is bigger than yours thread"?

 

 

Speaking of that, I still have a Delorme annual map subscription. Presumably we can grab, index those and use those as cheap source??

I followed the link to the shot of your area. I don't make any claims to understanding 99% of what you folks talk about here, but that sure was some impressive detail on that shot (please understand this is said sincerely and in no way sarcastic since it really looks very impressive as far as the detail goes). I'll have to sit down and reread the entire thread to see if maybe I can wrap my tired old brain around maybe even a small bit of the info. If folks are going from no aerial footage to what I saw at the link I'd have to say it looks very nice and there are going to be a lot of happy campers. Congrats to those that will benefit from it! :mad:

Link to comment

Looks like they already have some posted:

http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/view/143/

 

Without downloading it, those look like vectorized rasters in IMG format, using Moagu to vectorize the rasters.

Oh, well I image it won't be long. They have a thread going in their forum with some cool images on the subject. looks like they are using Global Mapper as a front end to Google Earth. Edited by JDiablo
Link to comment

Added some imagery to my Oregon 300 and went to lunch today. The map refresh didn't seem to be an issue. This is by far the most impressive firmware update! I contemplated the PN series because of the aerials, but went with the Oregon for the touchscreen. Now I've got the best of both!

 

JetSkier

Link to comment

Interesting update. It will be a week or two before I get the chance to play with it, but hopefully, by then everyone else will have figured out how to easily do things by then so I don't have to learn the hard way myself :mad: . While I'm thinking people will figure out how to get aerial photos loaded somewhat easier than what I'm able to do with my PN-40, I doubt the memory issues of raster images will be easily overcome.

 

It will be fun to see how this plays out.

Link to comment

Before I go out and buy an Oregon can somebody tell me:

 

1) What's the marginal benefit of having a raster map of something I already have vector based?

2) Assuming there's some merit in having imagery available on the unit, is it possible to overlay transparent vector based (routable) graphics on top of the imagery?

 

It looks to me like the greatest benefit of this is for things that are hard to get in vector form, like bathymetry.

Link to comment

Before I go out and buy an Oregon can somebody tell me:

 

1) What's the marginal benefit of having a raster map of something I already have vector based?

2) Assuming there's some merit in having imagery available on the unit, is it possible to overlay transparent vector based (routable) graphics on top of the imagery?

 

It looks to me like the greatest benefit of this is for things that are hard to get in vector form, like bathymetry.

 

1) if it's the same data (e.g. 24k topo) the vector will update faster and cover a much larger area...so there's really no benefit if it's the SAME data...however, there is data available as raster which is NOT available as vector and that is where this feature is a benefit

 

2) you can set the level you would like the raster image relative to your vector data...regardless of which appears on top, your routable data will still work (e.g. even if you allow this raster data to cover your city navigator map, as long as that city navigator map is active you can use auto routing)

Link to comment

Wow! This makes my day!

 

To try it out I made a quick map from one of those Park Service trail maps that you get when visiting most national parks. I'll post the kmz file to my website in a bit. This means we can now have real 24K topo imagery... or even subway or bus routes. I could have some fun with this.

 

76be041f-6e0f-4d95-92c0-8101cff450e6.jpg

 

I notice that the raster maps sit below their vector maps... so you can see the City Navigator streets (gray lines) in Gatlinburg in the image above.

Edited by DavidMac
Link to comment

With all due respect....

 

The detail will be the same on GE as with any other source. 99% of the images originate from the same places and are public domain.... I doubt Google pays for much...

You would lose that bet. There is some free imagery out there. Google buys rights to a _lot_ of imagery from Digital Globe, GeoEye, Sanborn, and others. Most of the deals aren't exclusive (some are) and this is why you'll sometimes see the same imagery in other products, too. That doesn't mean it's public domain and it doesn't mean it's free.

 

DavidMac, you can control whether it's "above" or "below" things by tinkering with the draw order when you build the KML.

Link to comment
As for the detail on GE, my area is nowhere near as detailed and you can't zoom in nearly as far... The detail is no better than what I currently have with DeLorme.
Yeah, Google Earth's imagery is really good in some places and not so hot in others. It's spot-on where I live, and I can see 6" details in my back yard. Yet I can bicycle out of the range of that high-resolution coverage in just a few hours.

 

But the coolest thing (well, one of the coolest) about what Garmin is doing here though is that you don't have to use Google's data*. Use imagery from ANY source you can get your hands on.

 

You just need Google Earth to calibrate your images. I think most people will find GE a lot easier to work with - and cheaper - than any verison of DeLorme's XMap for this task.

 

---

* Edit to add: Pay heed to Robert Lipe's notes about licensing. You really shouldn't be using Google's imagery. His GPSBabel is built into Google Earth, so I expect he knows a bit more about Google Earth and licensing arrangements than anyone else in this forum. Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious Robert, but you shouldn't be trying to get anyone to take sucker bets :mad:

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment

My Colorado 400T is shutting done when I go to the select map button. I was able to upload and view both captured satellite imagery and a park map no problems.

 

But as I said, it shuts down immediately when I go to "select map"

 

Ideas?

 

Note, I am inside, with no satellite lock at the moment.

 

was there a GPS software update too, or just the firmware?

Edited by Baumer
Link to comment

I am going back to Colorado version 3.0. :(

 

I dont care for raster maps right now and the unit does seem to work smoother with 3.02.

The maps also look sharper and faster too but theres two things that I dont like at all.

 

The already mentioned tracklog line... its too big and cumbersome, keep it thin and black.

The other and its major is that putting the cursor on a waypoint (like a geocache) does not popup a tooltip box with the cache name.

Because of it I am keeping 3.0 and will wait for a new version.

Link to comment

Before I go out and buy an Oregon can somebody tell me:

 

1) What's the marginal benefit of having a raster map of something I already have vector based?

2) Assuming there's some merit in having imagery available on the unit, is it possible to overlay transparent vector based (routable) graphics on top of the imagery?

 

It looks to me like the greatest benefit of this is for things that are hard to get in vector form, like bathymetry.

 

For the most part, Raster maps are a negative in my opinion. That said, for many areas, or types of maps, especially photo type maps, raster maps are all that's available. Myself, I get frustrated enough with the currently available maps that I often wonder if they're worth the trouble. Map errors can often cause me more headache than not having a map at all.

 

I haven't played with this new update for Garmin yet, so I'm not sure if you can overlay the images in the same manner you do on the Delorme units. There are several programs that will allow you to do so on the PC however, so you could build them that way prior to converting to the format required to upload if you needed to. On a small screen though, the vector maps really shine when you try to zoom in. To have high enough resolution in an image to zoom in tight requires significant amounts of memory. This means lots of disk space for storage, and long transfer times to move the data from place to place.

Link to comment

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any easy way to do this that I've found. However this overlay tool works very well for USGS Topos and the B/W orthos (I know this probably doesn't help our friends in Canada!).

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/kml_overlay

 

You need to save the file locally first but it is a pretty easy way to get topo tiles on the unit.

I don't have a fancy new Garmin unit to test it with, but I think it might work without any extra steps if you select "Static" for "Ground Overlay type" in GPS Visualizer's KML Overlay input form.

 

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/kml_overlay?k..._dimension=1024

 

And as I think someone else mentioned, Canadian topo maps are indeed available. They're not as nice as the USGS topos (or MyTopo.com tiles), but they're something.

Edited by adamschneider
Link to comment

Here are a couple of shots from the state park map I was using for testing:

 

go03.jpg

 

go04.jpg

 

I'm using Globalmapper to cut kmz's from some existing maps that I had. Pretty painless, GM cuts them into 1024x1024 chunks and it sounds like Mike is going put in a Garmin raster specific export to streamline the process even more.

 

The maps look great, panning and zooming is slow but that might be because of the number/size of images in the kmz. Also on a couple of occasions when zooming in I've had the unit sort of lock up (doesn't display any maps) that has required a reboot. This weekend I'll get out moving to see how it works during actual tracking (instead of panning around).

Link to comment

Here's one zoomed in pretty well:

test02.jpg

Public domain image courtesy of NJ Office of Information Technology (NJOIT), Office of Geographic Information Systems (OGIS)

 

Data Storage and Access Information:

Access Constraints: None

Use Constraints: None; acknowledgment of "NJ Office of Information Technology (NJOIT), Office of Geographic Information Systems (OGIS)" as the data source would be appreciated. Reference date for this data set in a citation should be 2007 - 2008.

Online Linkage: http://njgin.nj.gov/OIT_IW/index.jsp

Edited by JDiablo
Link to comment

OK, I was causing some problems with the way I cut the kmz from GM. Doing it the correct way has made things a lot faster....still getting a lock up if I zoom in too far though.

 

Another one:

 

go05.jpg

Note: The above is NOT GE imagery.

Edited by IndyJpr
Link to comment

Let me get this straight. I can download aerial photo shots to my Colorado?

 

Or am I just missing the basics of this discussion?

A Picture viewer has always been part of the software of the unit and you could view aerial images if desired, but with the latest β software, you can now use them for a moving map display.
Link to comment

Let me get this straight. I can download aerial photo shots to my Colorado?

 

Or am I just missing the basics of this discussion?

A Picture viewer has always been part of the software of the unit and you could view aerial images if desired, but with the latest β software, you can now use them for a moving map display.

 

Yes, I knew about the picture viewer. I've played with that a little but found it wasn't part of my geocaching experience but to see aerial "maps" that are interactive while caching would be a benefit.

Link to comment

You can zoom in until you have what you need and really can see what's on the map, do a capture screen and go on until you have what you need.

 

With photoshop or PsP you make ONE image of the tiles you made before, be aware you can MIX aerial photoos, map tiles and whatever this way, just laying them over each other and/or merging.

 

Of course it has to fit in with the map you're making, but the only real important thing is the overlay in G.E.

Edited by splashy
Link to comment

Although I still haven't heard how you make a picture of a map into a routable download, i can see many great uses here. Congrats Garmin users! And, while I wondered about the amount you can download, it appears fairly easy to do this, so I would assume there's no need to have it waiting (like I have my aerials of MI), you can simply scan and load?

 

Will be passing all this info on to my Garmin using friend! :(

Link to comment

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any easy way to do this that I've found. However this overlay tool works very well for USGS Topos and the B/W orthos (I know this probably doesn't help our friends in Canada!).

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/kml_overlay

 

You need to save the file locally first but it is a pretty easy way to get topo tiles on the unit.

I don't have a fancy new Garmin unit to test it with, but I think it might work without any extra steps if you select "Static" for "Ground Overlay type" in GPS Visualizer's KML Overlay input form.

 

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/kml_overlay?k..._dimension=1024

 

 

Adam, I've posted instructions on how to use the GPSVisualizer KML Overlay to create Garmin Custom Maps here:

 

http://www.gpsfix.net/garmin-custom-maps-t...gps-visualizer/

 

I've also posted some random bits that I've picked up over the course of the last couple of days here:

 

http://www.gpsfix.net/garmin-custom-maps-tips-random-stuff/

 

I'm really hoping that MapTiler can be enhanced to output overlays that are compatible with Garmin units (you can vote to have it added as a feature here http://maptiler.uservoice.com/pages/10188-maptiler-todo ). That would allow the creation of overlays (broken into appropriate sized tiles for the Garmin) from freely available maps in a multitude of formats (GeoTIFF, MrSID, jpeg2000).

Link to comment

@ RR

 

As long as the roads on the picture 'connects' to the rest of the tiles it works, as does a layout of for example disneyworld or a busmap.

Basically a tile is a picture.

 

Remember these maps are NOT routable and it will not make a tracklog.

Edited by splashy
Link to comment

 

* Oregon 300/400 (can't find this one yet!)

 

 

Oregon 300 link is here:

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloads...5&pID=14903

 

I just submitted a bug report about the Colorado Beta.

Some polygon colours have changed. On the DEM basemap, the lakes are almost white.

On Topo Switzerland v2, cities are dark-grey (instead of light-grey) and buildings are brown (instead of dark-grey) which makes the buildings almost invisible.

 

The same maps show fine on the Dakota 10 with the Beta firmware

http://picasaweb.google.com/mt.erebus/Scrn...feat=directlink

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 21
×
×
  • Create New...