Cache in Sad Shape - What is Appropriate?

[+DragonflyTotem]

I found a cache today, pretty much where I'd expected it to be and saw that as prior log entries indicated the cache is in sad shape and is missing half of the container, log has been damp because of that and it has been found laying out in the open. I logged my find and then also left a "needs maintenance" log entry.

 

My question though -- since it looks like folks have been leaving log entries to say the same thing for about four months now -- is what can/should someone other than the CO do to fix/repair things? I just happened to have with me a replacement container for what the cache had been in (traveling prepared in case I found an interesting location for a cache!), and considered replacing the broken/part missing container with a new one of mine. It's a nice cache location but it looks like there has been no response about the maintenance issues (I have no clue if the CO is in town or not, etc.) and as the logs indicate this cache has been found more than once laying out in the open because of the broken/part missing issue. I've also sent an email to the CO offering to swap out the container with a new one of mine. Is that doing the right thing? Meaning, sit and wait to see if he fixes it or answers my email rather than swapping out the container for him? And if so, is there a point at which it is likely okay to go ahead and do it (assuming that I don't hear from the guy)? I sure hated driving away knowing that I had the same cache he'd used sitting in my hand that I could have swapped out.

[+Stargazer22]

I think you did OK by leaving the maintenance log.

 

I will replace torn baggies, leave an extra pen, or put in a couple of extra log pages if the log is full.

I draw the line for myself at replacing the container. I'll leave that to the CO.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

I would swap it out and let the CO know by email. I would hope he would let you know if he is no longer in the area of no longer caching.

 

We have a local cacher that helps maintain and even replaced an ammo can on a hide that isn't his. We all love that he does this and lets us know all is well. Not often we come across someone like that! He's awesome.

 

I can't imagine a CO objecting to the help.

[+Col. Flagg]

If you look at the profile of the cacher that hid the cache you will see that they haven't logged on in over a year(yes they could be caching under a different name, but unlikely since there have been complains about the cache for several months and nothing done about it). Given the info I think I would have put up a needs archived on this cache, if the owners don't want to maintain it open the spot up to someone who will.

[+huskerrich2000]

actually, given the fact that the co, hasn't visited the site since 2008, this cache is actually a candidate for adoption or sba, in my opinion

[+Vater_Araignee]

drdan,

Is maintaining the hide worthy of your efforts? Don't ask us if it is worthy ask yourself.

If it is, then first try to contact the CO (some can be possessive) if you don't get a response in a reasonable amount of time then do what you can do to save it.

 

I would be interested in why you believe this cache has enough merit to warrant you helping.

[+Castle Mischief]

actually, given the fact that the co, hasn't visited the site since 2008, this cache is actually a candidate for adoption or sba, in my opinion

 

Current adoption guidelines (rules, whatever) would prevent an adoption without the CO initiating. If they aren't coming back then it looks like either archival or "community maintenance".

[+DragonflyTotem]

drdan,

Is maintaining the hide worthy of your efforts? Don't ask us if it is worthy ask yourself.

If it is, then first try to contact the CO (some can be possessive) if you don't get a response in a reasonable amount of time then do what you can do to save it.

 

I would be interested in why you believe this cache has enough merit to warrant you helping.

 

Yes, I'd be happy to do whatever to fix the cache -- it's in a really nice park that many don't know about, making it a great quiet place to bring your family. A cache there brings lots of folks who probably have no clue the park is there. When I got into geocaching a few weeks ago this park was the first place that I thought of for placing my own cache, but then realized this one was there. I've even walked the park and find that I can get .11 miles away from it to another location, but then decided that putting the second cache there probably wasn't the right thing to do even though it met the distance guidelines. But it is a really nice park, and I think that having the negatives about the container and such probably turns folks off who might otherwise come.

 

Added: I had already sent an email to the CO, actually had sent one to him about another of his as well. Haven't heard back yet. We have a lot of military in the area and for all I know he's been deployed or such, but will see if I hear back from him.

 

Anyway, that's what was running through my mind.

Edited September 30, 2009 by drdan01

[+ecanderson]

Yes, I'd be happy to do whatever to fix the cache -- it's in a really nice park that many don't know about, making it a great quiet place to bring your family. A cache there brings lots of folks who probably have no clue the park is there.

Sounds like the right spot for a cache. If you don't hear back from the owner, you can always adopt the cache informally, taking care of its maintenance yourself and putting a "watch" on it so you'll see if other cachers have problems in the future. If the owner is MIA, I'd probably only do that if there's some decent history to go along with the cache itself. There's obviously no merit in keeping the container.

 

Alternately, if you place an SBA log on it, you can replace it when it's archived and maintain it the "normal" way.

[knowschad]

I agree that a cache owner that hasn't at least logged into the site in a year is probably not caching any longer. I'd suggest that you put a watch on it, and if there has been no action taken on your Needs Maintenance log in a couple of weeks, post a Needs Archived log to call it to the attention of the reviewer. Keep in mind that calling the reviewer's attention to the issue is *all* that a NA log does. It is then totally up to the reviewer (or between the reviewer and the cache owner) as to the result.

[Dj Storm]

The owner of that cache seems to be missing, so it's unlikely that you will be able to adopt his cache. Since you decided to maintain a cache at that location, you have two options:

 

- Do what's necessary to repair the cache: change the container, change the logbook, repair the camo, etc; you will become part of the community that maintains an old cache. You won't be able to modify the cache page.

- Wait a month, then post a SBA (if you don't receive an answer from the owner). Once archived, submit your own cache. You will be able to fully maintain the cache page. The drawback is the history of the cache will be lost.

 

You should consider if the history is more important than the ability to edit the cache page and cache attributes.

In this situation, I would request archival. The cache is only 3 years old (not a historic one), and it's a micro. I would maintain a historic cache - 8+ years old, or the first in the county, or with a theme matching the historic place it's placed in, or the cache of a (geocaching) celebrity, etc.

[+DragonflyTotem]

Yes, I'd be happy to do whatever to fix the cache -- it's in a really nice park that many don't know about, making it a great quiet place to bring your family. A cache there brings lots of folks who probably have no clue the park is there.

Sounds like the right spot for a cache. If you don't hear back from the owner, you can always adopt the cache informally, taking care of its maintenance yourself and putting a "watch" on it so you'll see if other cachers have problems in the future. If the owner is MIA, I'd probably only do that if there's some decent history to go along with the cache itself. There's obviously no merit in keeping the container.

 

Alternately, if you place an SBA log on it, you can replace it when it's archived and maintain it the "normal" way.

 

What's an SBA log?

Thanks!

[+huskerrich2000]

should be archived, it sends an e-mail to the local reveiwers as well as the cache owner.

[+Lil Devil]

The log used to be called "Should Be Archived" but at some point it was shortened to "Needs Archived."

Edited September 30, 2009 by Lil Devil

[knowschad]

The log used to be called "Should Be Archived" but at some point it was shortened to "Needs Archived."

One would think they could spare just one more letter and make it, "Needs Archiving", wouldn't you?

[+DragonflyTotem]

Since I've already tried to make contact it sounds like there isn't much more that I can do in that regard. And it also sounds like the general consensus is that in this situation it would probably be best to repair the cache by swapping containers (mine is exactly what he had and I think that will at least keep the cache from dropping to the ground and being muggled).

 

I'll start watching the cache and then if I haven't heard anything in a few more weeks will turn it in as a needs archive.

 

I assume that I make a log entry to explain repairing the cache. Should I do anything to suggest that I'm trying to maintain the cache until hearing from the CO? I don't want to do anything to step on the CO's toes but am thinking about how if anyone has a problem could there be any need for them to be able to contact someone? I do live close by so it is easy for me to whatever is best.

[+Moose Mob]

Add me to the "Post a Needs Archived Log" list.

 

Most caches in that bad of shape have an owner that is not willing or able to maintain the cache and it should be dsiabled for a few weeks to give them a chance to repair it.

 

<steps on soap box>

Folks... posting a Needs Archived is a good way to get attention to caches that you would like your local reviewer to take a look at. Sure, we do not do much about safety or quality, but things like illegal locations and lack of maintenance will be scrutinized.

[+DragonflyTotem]

Add me to the "Post a Needs Archived Log" list.

 

Most caches in that bad of shape have an owner that is not willing or able to maintain the cache and it should be dsiabled for a few weeks to give them a chance to repair it.

 

<steps on soap box>

Folks... posting a Needs Archived is a good way to get attention to caches that you would like your local reviewer to take a look at. Sure, we do not do much about safety or quality, but things like illegal locations and lack of maintenance will be scrutinized.

 

Well, I think things have possibly run their course. I got a returned undeliverable email from my attempt to contact him earlier today. I think then that it is probably time to go ahead and do as suggested by posting a Needs Archived log entry. I assume that the reviewers have their own process for what happens after no response, or perhaps his email is only temporarily down.

 

As I'm new this brings up a new related question -- what do you do to/with the cache itself when a cache has been archived? It's not my cache but I'm a bit nervous about the thought of this being just left there...I can provide info privately as I assume we're not supposed to post cache location info in the forum (?) but leaving it there means that there is a good probability that some very young kids might get their hands on things like little magnets and other choke hazards as this cache will most likely be laying out in the open shortly (again, based on the logs). So what if anything do we do in situations like this? If the cache needs to stay, then I probably have no choice but to repair the container so that it won't be picked up by a kid?

[AZcachemeister]

In the past I have replaced containers and logbooks as an act of kindness.

 

Under the new 'system', such kindness could be for nothing, as (in our area at least) the cache will eventually be archived if the OWNER doesn't respond to a call for maintenance.

 

Thus (in my opinion), the current scheme is teaching geocachers to be selfish, uncaring bastages.

 

If it isn't being maintained BY THE OWNER, then it can't be listed (on this site)...but don't remove it, because it belongs to someone else.

 

Who said you can't have your cake and eat it too?

[+ladyrich007]

Sometimes cachers are loners. They cache alone because they have no one to caches with. There's always a chance that something has happened to the co. If they haven't logged in in over a year and the cache is destroyed it should just be archived.

 

In the past I have replaced containers and logbooks as an act of kindness.

 

Under the new 'system', such kindness could be for nothing, as (in our area at least) the cache will eventually be archived if the OWNER doesn't respond to a call for maintenance.

 

Thus (in my opinion), the current scheme is teaching geocachers to be selfish, uncaring bastages.

 

If it isn't being maintained BY THE OWNER, then it can't be listed (on this site)...but don't remove it, because it belongs to someone else.

 

Who said you can't have your cake and eat it too?

Edited October 1, 2009 by ladyrich007

[+Minimike2]

What is the cycle time on deployments now? Eighteen months?

 

You could check the CO's logs on found caches back a year ago - perhaps he says something about an upcoming deployment. Seems a shame to throw away caches put out by someone because they are deployed.

[+DragonflyTotem]

What is the cycle time on deployments now? Eighteen months?

 

You could check the CO's logs on found caches back a year ago - perhaps he says something about an upcoming deployment. Seems a shame to throw away caches put out by someone because they are deployed.

 

It depends upon what kind of deployment (ship or shore unit). But I agree with you and I'm continuing with my efforts to try to reach him and if that is at all possible will try to find a way to do so.

[Clan Riffster]

If they haven't logged in in over a year and the cache is destroyed it should just be archived.

I'd like to add one more step to this process:

If the owner drops out, the cache is no longer viable and the community is unwilling to adopt it, it should be archived.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Yes, I'd be happy to do whatever to fix the cache -- it's in a really nice park that many don't know about, making it a great quiet place to bring your family. A cache there brings lots of folks who probably have no clue the park is there.

Sounds like the right spot for a cache. If you don't hear back from the owner, you can always adopt the cache informally, taking care of its maintenance yourself and putting a "watch" on it so you'll see if other cachers have problems in the future. If the owner is MIA, I'd probably only do that if there's some decent history to go along with the cache itself. There's obviously no merit in keeping the container.

 

Alternately, if you place an SBA log on it, you can replace it when it's archived and maintain it the "normal" way.

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this so far. The OP indicated that the cache is in sad shape because the container is broken, and that a replacement container just like it was available. If the current container is damaged wouldn't it be likely that a replacement container of the same type would suffer the same fate?

[+The Blorenges]

 

...As I'm new this brings up a new related question -- what do you do to/with the cache itself when a cache has been archived? It's not my cache but I'm a bit nervous about the thought of this being just left there...I can provide info privately as I assume we're not supposed to post cache location info in the forum (?) but leaving it there means that there is a good probability that some very young kids might get their hands on things like little magnets and other choke hazards as this cache will most likely be laying out in the open shortly (again, based on the logs). So what if anything do we do in situations like this? If the cache needs to stay, then I probably have no choice but to repair the container so that it won't be picked up by a kid?

 

What I would do, if I found the remains of an archived cache is

 

First, have a quick look to see whether it was listed on any of the other 3 geocaching sites in use in the UK (which is very unlikely around here.)

 

Assuming I could find no trace of it being listed elsewhere, I would then remove all remnants of the cache, bring it home and stick it in the far corner of the garage.

 

Then I'd put a note on the archived cache page saying that I had done this and adding, "If the cache owner would like to have the remains of the cache returned then please contact me through our geocaching.com profile and arrangements can be made."

 

MrsB

[+DragonflyTotem]

Yes, I'd be happy to do whatever to fix the cache -- it's in a really nice park that many don't know about, making it a great quiet place to bring your family. A cache there brings lots of folks who probably have no clue the park is there.

Sounds like the right spot for a cache. If you don't hear back from the owner, you can always adopt the cache informally, taking care of its maintenance yourself and putting a "watch" on it so you'll see if other cachers have problems in the future. If the owner is MIA, I'd probably only do that if there's some decent history to go along with the cache itself. There's obviously no merit in keeping the container.

 

Alternately, if you place an SBA log on it, you can replace it when it's archived and maintain it the "normal" way.

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this so far. The OP indicated that the cache is in sad shape because the container is broken, and that a replacement container just like it was available. If the current container is damaged wouldn't it be likely that a replacement container of the same type would suffer the same fate?

 

I don't think so. My first post mentioned that it was missing half the container and then I called that "broken" as a substitute for giving away information about the cache (since it's still active). I believe that this probably happened when someone failed to properly screw the top onto the nano container or something like that. Alternately, it could just be that the original one didn't have the rubber o-ring that is on the improved model which I have and so it got damp and the magnet was less effective as it got wet, etc. In short, I'd think that a replacement would be okay but would also assume that these things aren't meant to be forever and that you probably need to change them out after a year or so.

[Skippermark]

It's your call if you want to fix it up or not. I used to think it was a good idea, but it got frustrating fixing up caches for slackers who no longer care about the game or their fellow cachers. Unless a cache is ultra special, which most really aren't, I'd rather see it get archived and a new one placed in the same area by an active cacher who will take pride in it and keep it maintained.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Skippermark

[+BlueDeuce]

It's your call if you want to fix it up or not. I used to think it was a good idea, but it got frustrating fixing up caches for slackers who no longer care about the game or their fellow cachers. Unless a cache is ultra special, which most really aren't, I'd rather see it get archived and a new one placed in the same area by an active cacher who will take pride in it and keep it maintained.

 

ayep.

[+Vater_Araignee]

drdan,

Is maintaining the hide worthy of your efforts? Don't ask us if it is worthy ask yourself.

If it is, then first try to contact the CO (some can be possessive) if you don't get a response in a reasonable amount of time then do what you can do to save it.

 

I would be interested in why you believe this cache has enough merit to warrant you helping.

 

Yes, I'd be happy to do whatever to fix the cache -- it's in a really nice park that many don't know about, making it a great quiet place to bring your family. A cache there brings lots of folks who probably have no clue the park is there. When I got into geocaching a few weeks ago this park was the first place that I thought of for placing my own cache, but then realized this one was there. I've even walked the park and find that I can get .11 miles away from it to another location, but then decided that putting the second cache there probably wasn't the right thing to do even though it met the distance guidelines. But it is a really nice park, and I think that having the negatives about the container and such probably turns folks off who might otherwise come.

 

Added: I had already sent an email to the CO, actually had sent one to him about another of his as well. Haven't heard back yet. We have a lot of military in the area and for all I know he's been deployed or such, but will see if I hear back from him.

 

Anyway, that's what was running through my mind.

I can't see a reason for fixing it when your purposes would actually be better served by giving the CO a chance, then recommending it be archived and being prepared to place one of your own.

Or better yet placing one at the .11 mark so that an active cache will already be in place at the park.

I guess that's my long way of agreeing with Skippermark and BlueDeuce.

[+DragonflyTotem]

drdan,

Is maintaining the hide worthy of your efforts? Don't ask us if it is worthy ask yourself.

If it is, then first try to contact the CO (some can be possessive) if you don't get a response in a reasonable amount of time then do what you can do to save it.

 

I would be interested in why you believe this cache has enough merit to warrant you helping.

 

Yes, I'd be happy to do whatever to fix the cache -- it's in a really nice park that many don't know about, making it a great quiet place to bring your family. A cache there brings lots of folks who probably have no clue the park is there. When I got into geocaching a few weeks ago this park was the first place that I thought of for placing my own cache, but then realized this one was there. I've even walked the park and find that I can get .11 miles away from it to another location, but then decided that putting the second cache there probably wasn't the right thing to do even though it met the distance guidelines. But it is a really nice park, and I think that having the negatives about the container and such probably turns folks off who might otherwise come.

 

Added: I had already sent an email to the CO, actually had sent one to him about another of his as well. Haven't heard back yet. We have a lot of military in the area and for all I know he's been deployed or such, but will see if I hear back from him.

 

Anyway, that's what was running through my mind.

I can't see a reason for fixing it when your purposes would actually be better served by giving the CO a chance, then recommending it be archived and being prepared to place one of your own.

Or better yet placing one at the .11 mark so that an active cache will already be in place at the park.

I guess that's my long way of agreeing with Skippermark and BlueDeuce.

 

The main thing on my mind has to do with where the cache is and that because it is missing a piece it won't easily remain in place and has been logged as having been found laying on the ground. If it doesn't remain in place, then it will drop at the feet of a kid playing on the thing that this is attached to...and then some kid could potentially pick it up (these kids would be age 2-5 or so) and do what small kids do with things that might look like something interesting to put in their mouths, and then choke on the loose magnet, etc. That's why I'm torn about it as I agree (see below for why) especially about waiting for it to be archived, etc. as probably the better end result.

 

About the agreeing with all about the CO -- I've sent two emails and although both were bounced back, I did get email receipts from his email. Strange. So I then sent another email to him early this morning explaining that I was a fellow cacher, that I'd tried to reach him about his cache and that I'd be willing to help out if he'd like that. No reply (yet) and no email bounce-back either. And see that he hasn't logged in. Seems to further suggest that he's just no longer interested in caching. But who knows for sure.

 

So I'm right now in a wait mode after logging the Needs Archive entry, and have emailed with the reviewer who has asked me to let him/her know if I hear from the CO.

[+DragonflyTotem]

 

What I would do, if I found the remains of an archived cache is

 

First, have a quick look to see whether it was listed on any of the other 3 geocaching sites in use in the UK (which is very unlikely around here.)

 

Assuming I could find no trace of it being listed elsewhere, I would then remove all remnants of the cache, bring it home and stick it in the far corner of the garage.

 

Then I'd put a note on the archived cache page saying that I had done this and adding, "If the cache owner would like to have the remains of the cache returned then please contact me through our geocaching.com profile and arrangements can be made."

 

MrsB

 

I like that idea...especially since one question that I asked was what happens IF it is archived, and although it is no longer "officially" there, it is still actually there (well at least until it falls to the ground and then whatever happens). But that would kind of preclude me from putting a new cache there in the same location as the risk of his being found by muggles would also expose any new cache there to the same (especially if I simply put a new nano there like what was originally there). I guess that unless I use your idea...that I'd need to go find another spot in the park to do a different kind of cache (lots of possibilities in that I think).

 

One thing for sure, I'm likely to know lots about the archive process and such by the time all of this is done!

[+DragonflyTotem]

Just in case anyone was still following this or wondering what happened, I'm happy to say that after sending several follow-up emails and seeing return receipts but getting no replies, I sent one this morning suggesting that if he's no longer interested in geocaching that I'd be more than willing to adopt his caches so that they can continue on. And I just heard back from him -- he's agreed to have me adopt all of his caches. Hopefully he'll be submitting the email request for that to GS today!

 

And the immediate good news is that his email also gives me permission to do any maintenance now so today I will get this container changed out, keeping the logs!