Jump to content

Do you log each DNF?


chephy
Followers 5

Recommended Posts

If there is a problem with searching for a cache -- like its on the other side of a no trespassing sign -- I will try to post a note so that others can decide about whether they want to go for it.

 

If its local, and I intend to try again in a day or two, I might not dnf it until I have had a chance to look for it then.

 

If there is something about the search that makes it stand out -- I spent a half hour or more looking and the area has been torn up by other cachers trying to find it -- I will make a point of dnfing it. If there is a good story that would make a fun log, or the name of the cache itself evokes something, I might take special note of it and dnf the cache. Particularly if I had a log in mind for the cache before I even started looking.

 

The more I am convinced that a cache is missing, the more I will try to dnf it.

 

If I cannot find it, look at the hint, which tells me that there is no hint -- or makes a similar cute comment about how the cache is too easy for a hint -- I may decide to treat the cache as I feel I was treated and stop the search then without a dnf or any further comment. (Note: its better not to have a hint than to waste someone's time.)

 

And if I am driving through an area with my noncaching family and the five minute rule applies, I may not log it, particularly if I do not have immediate access to a computer. And if it has been a long day, sometimes my best intentions about remembering what caches I could not find get lost in the works.

Link to comment

If I search for it I will log a DNF and i bookmark them so I can see new logs posted on them and what not, sure I have forgotten a few in the beginning, but now that its a challenge to me to clear my bookmake (but it only grows and grows :( ) I log'em all. I also sometime wonder why some dont log the DNF's to me it can show the true Diff. rating. I might not go look for one that has 3 or 4 DNF's if im running short on time. I also think that logging a DNF might let the owner to keep an eye on it if there it multi-DNF.

Link to comment

I really appreciate this thread. I think I've developed a philosophy I'll use in future caching...

 

-If I arrive at a site and spend effort looking, I'll log a DNF.

-If I arrive and must abort the search due to muggle activity or some other reason I will not log a DNF since there I haven't actually begun to search yet.

-If the reason why I couldn't search is interesting or relevant to the next searcher, I'll log a note.

 

I think that sounds reasonable and within the intentions of the system.

Link to comment

These replies; so much anger some contain. Anger leads the way to the dark side of the Force.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't there options to leave a note that a cache needs maintenance if it appears to actually have something wrong with it instead of using a DNF to indicate a problem? The DNF simply indicates that I (note the no finger pointing) couldn't find it; for whatever reason. If an easy park-n-grab cache gets a few DNFs in a row, then it may indicate a potentially muggled cache. If a 5 star difficulty cache gets a few DNFs in a row, it may indicate that it really is a tough one to find. Regardless, it's always best to leave at least a short description for clarity. Case in point I was able to log a find (FTF as well) after two others logged a DNF. Just because someone "gets" to log a DNF, doesn't mean the cache isn't there.

 

I for one, will make more of an effort to be a little more verbose in my logs. As a cache owner, I recognize that there is more pleasure in reading about the exploits and failures of fellow cachers than the gratuitous TFTC.

 

As a side note, if one were only to put out a magnetic skirt hide with no imagination, then one couldn't expect much more than a "TFTC" log. I for one want more. My first cache had some effort put into it's design and placement, so shall the rest. I want to make the search worthwhile of an entertaining log.

Edited by CraigsOutside
Link to comment
These replies; so much anger with some contain. Anger leads the way to the dark side of the Force.

From my short few months in the forums, this is one of the topics that generate a lot of lively discussion. Others include : logs getting deleted, FTF rules and ethics.

 

Off topic, but I know of a cache you may be interested in : GCPTVZ

Link to comment

no, i don't log every DNF; just most of them.

 

if i start hunting and break off to go to lunch or something but expect to come finish my search soon, i usually write a note.

 

if i make multiple attempt in the same day or the same trip, it's usually one DNF and a suitable number of notes.

 

if i have nothing to say about the hunt because i suspect it's a loserly cache but i don't want to pass judgment on it before i've found it, i usually won't make a log at all.

 

if i find it subsequently and the cache IS loserly, the whole of my log will read "found".

 

that said, a DNF is still part of the story, and more than anything else i am interested in the story. geocaching is simply a way to look at my world, a way to be present in the world that suits me. almost every hunt is about being rather than finding, so they're part of my tale.

 

i wish, though, that the log read "flask didn't find such and such cache" instead of "couldn't find". granted, sometimes i can't find it, but sometimes i just don't.

Link to comment

I log DNFs if I spent a long time looking. I feel its helpful for the owner of the cache to know how difficult it is.

This morning I couldn't find a cache with a 1.0 difficulty. I had a friend helping me look.

 

Either the cache is missing or its not really a 1.0. I think the owner of the cache needs to know that.

Link to comment

Hmm... We cannot even agree on what constitutes a DNF!

Thanks, Brian, but I was in northern Manhattan today. Parking sucks! The drivers are terrible! WE set out for four caches in Inwood Hill and Isham Parks. Only took a half hour to find parking! One cache we had DNFed previously. Two had two DNFs. Found all four. Here's a cache on the way back! Couldn't find parking. We continued onward. Not a DNF, nor even a note. We didn't look for it! Let's try Fort Tryon Park. Nope. No parking there either. Might have looked for three caches, if we'd found parking. But we didn't find parking. Oh, well. But not a DNF.

Then we have the question of what purpose a DNF serves. Notifies the CO that there might be a problem? Inflate the ego of a cacher who deliberately posts 'soft' coords? If I make an honest effort, then usually that will get a DNF. Doesn't matter if it rains, or there are a lot of muggles, or I'm just being stupid. I spend time looking and cannot find, it's usually a DNF. And I am up to 232 DNFs. That's 11%. "Picknickers started being interested in what we were doing, so we gave up." That's a DNF, even though I know where the cache is! Coords obviously badly off? (845 feet.) That one took me four tries, but only got one DNF.

If we cannot define what a DNF is, or what purpose it serves, we can argue till the cows come home.

Link to comment

it's simple: the purpose of my DNF logs is my own amusement. same with my found logs.

 

my amusement, not yours. not your information, not the COs information, not fanatical stat-keeping.

 

my amusement.

 

if you are amused as well, tant mieux.

Link to comment

I'm new to this, and just wondering why geocaches tend to have such a high proportion of "Find it" logs. Some caches have no DNFs logged at all, yet I could not find them after a bunch of searching. Sure, I'm a noob, but there must've been others who attempted the search and had to give up. So is it because people don't tend to log DNFs, or is it an unsubtle hint that I must really work on my geocaching skills? What percentage of your DNFs do you log?

 

.....as they say, do unto others..........we log all DNFs. :P

Link to comment

We're relatively new and I'm still feeling my way through what and how I'll log. Where I am today is this. I log finds if:

 

1) We found it. AND

 

2) I can say something nice or interesting OR

 

3) I've taken great pictures that I want to upload

 

I can generally find something interesting to say, but if a find is so unmemorable that I can't think of anything and didn't take any good photos, I won't log it. So far this has happened once.

 

I log DNFs if:

 

1) We didn't find it after looking for at least five minutes AND

 

2) I can say something nice or neutral or interesting. I really don't see the point in logging something unpleasant. (So if someone puts a cache in an area filled with garbage or at a dumpster, I won't log it if we find it and I won't log a DNF if we don't. We also won't spend more than a few minutes at such a place. Let people who have stronger stomachs than I do log such finds/DNFs.) OR

 

3) I've taken great pictures that need to appear on the log.

 

When I began we logged very few DNFs and I regret that now. I miss being able to look back and the ones we didn't catch. I especially regret that right now since we made our 100th find today and I wanted to check back at our DNFs but found a number missing. :P

 

You asked about what percentage of DNFs do we log. In my case probably about 80 percent these days. Less when we first began.

 

I have two concerns about logging DNFs.

 

1) Unlike finds, they don't appear in one's profile. A number of my DNF logs are entertaining (at least to me). I regret that my friends can't see them easily. It sometimes seems like wasted effort to log DNFs if they won't get read.

 

2) I keep hearing about logs being deleted and that scares me a bit. If one were to go by the conversations on the forums one would think that logs are being deleted willy nilly at every hour of the night and morning. Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be true, at least not in Tennessee.

 

Carolyn

Link to comment

it's simple: the purpose of my DNF logs is my own amusement. same with my found logs.

 

my amusement, not yours. not your information, not the COs information, not fanatical stat-keeping.

 

my amusement.

 

if you are amused as well, tant mieux.

 

Your can "play the game anyway you want" - but I do see an intellectual problem with that kind of attitude. The caches take effort, and frequently, money to place and maintain. Taking some time out to consider the desires and feelings of the cache owner and your fellow cachers seems quite reasonable.

Link to comment

it's simple: the purpose of my DNF logs is my own amusement. same with my found logs.

 

my amusement, not yours. not your information, not the COs information, not fanatical stat-keeping.

 

my amusement.

 

if you are amused as well, tant mieux.

 

Your can "play the game anyway you want" - but I do see an intellectual problem with that kind of attitude. The caches take effort, and frequently, money to place and maintain. Taking some time out to consider the desires and feelings of the cache owner and your fellow cachers seems quite reasonable.

 

it's simple: the purpose of the caches i place is my own amusement.

 

my amusement, not yours. not your education, and certainly not your stats.

 

my amusement.

 

if you are amused as well, tant mieux.

Link to comment

Even though I'm new to geocaching I don't really intend to post a DNF. It sounds to decidingly like giving up. As far as I'm concerned the only thing existing for me is Not Yet Found (NYF as far as I care). I will be back.

 

brace yourself, then, because it is precisely this attitude that people make so many posts against.

Link to comment

Even though I'm new to geocaching I don't really intend to post a DNF. It sounds to decidingly like giving up. As far as I'm concerned the only thing existing for me is Not Yet Found (NYF as far as I care). I will be back.

 

I never give up on a cache, unless I am certain it is gone (previous finder validates it). I will log a DNF each time I try to find it and do not. I have logged 3 or 4 DNF's on a cache before finding it and logging the find. I like to remind myself what I have done at a particular cache before returning, and also like to let the cache owner know how things are going with their cache (difficulty, feedback, etc.).

 

I am very surprised by some attitudes on this forum - how some people see geocaching as solely about themselves and their own amusement - really doesn't match up with the people I've met, but ....oh, well.

 

Granted, geocaching is for my amusement, but that amusement comes from sharing information with other cachers, and interacting with other cachers.

Link to comment

 

I am very surprised by some attitudes on this forum - how some people see geocaching as solely about themselves and their own amusement - really doesn't match up with the people I've met, but ....oh, well.

 

 

how do you know what amuses me?

 

maybe i'm amused by leaving expensive gifts in caches. or by carefully maintaining other people's cache containers. maybe i'm amused by carefully finding a cache and writing a decent log.

 

it's still about my amusement. there's no such thing as philanthropy. everything we do we do because it pleases us.

 

saints? it pleases them to be saints.

 

fat lotta nerve you have judging my attitude.

Link to comment

i don't even log all of my finds.

 

sometimes i just don't have anything to say. i know that will come as a surprise to some of you, but it's true.

 

i log almost everything and post pictures where i can, and when i'm logging i try to string together a few thoughts, if not coherent ones. there are people (and i'm an acquired taste) who love my logs and i try to be mindful of the larger narrative when i'm tempted to take shortcuts.

 

nobody but nobody cares if i'm too busy to write a few decent lines because i found way too many caches today, and the first time i write a cookie-cutter log thanking all the little people who made my fabulous trip through their tri-state area such a numbers bonanza for me i hope someone comes over to my house and shoots me execution-style.

 

so, no. i don't log EVERY cache, found or not. i do log most of them. almost all of them.

 

it's not only for my amusement, though; it's partly documentary. i have brain damage that prevents me from reliably forming memory and if it weren't for my logs, i'd have no memory at all of many of my days.

 

a friend of mine says that he tries not to spend more time writing the log than the hider spent on the cache. a gladware in the bushes may not rate a log. a stupidly hard cache (not a cleverly hidden hard cache) doesn't rate a DNF in my book. you toss a bison tube underneath a half acre of broken rock and call it a cache and i don't give you two minutes of my time.

Link to comment

there's no such thing as philanthropy. everything we do we do because it pleases us.

 

saints? it pleases them to be saints.

 

That's the saddest thing I've read today. Luckily it isn't true.

 

On to other matters. Yes, I confess, I didn't log a DNF yesterday. That's because my GPS took me to the middle of a highway bridge. As I stood there on the center line, waiting to be clobbered by a passing truck, I thought to myself, "This can't be right."

 

I did look along the bridge on each side of the highway for a few minutes, but I was certain I had entered the coords wrong. I didn't occur to me until after I got home that the cache was UNDER the bridge. That's just a bit too embarrassing, even for me, so I'll just quietly pretend I never left the safety of my own padded cell home.

Link to comment

If there is a problem with searching for a cache -- like its on the other side of a no trespassing sign -- I will try to post a note so that others can decide about whether they want to go for it.

 

If its local, and I intend to try again in a day or two, I might not dnf it until I have had a chance to look for it then.

 

If there is something about the search that makes it stand out -- I spent a half hour or more looking and the area has been torn up by other cachers trying to find it -- I will make a point of dnfing it. If there is a good story that would make a fun log, or the name of the cache itself evokes something, I might take special note of it and dnf the cache. Particularly if I had a log in mind for the cache before I even started looking.

 

The more I am convinced that a cache is missing, the more I will try to dnf it.

 

If I cannot find it, look at the hint, which tells me that there is no hint -- or makes a similar cute comment about how the cache is too easy for a hint -- I may decide to treat the cache as I feel I was treated and stop the search then without a dnf or any further comment. (Note: its better not to have a hint than to waste someone's time.)

 

And if I am driving through an area with my noncaching family and the five minute rule applies, I may not log it, particularly if I do not have immediate access to a computer. And if it has been a long day, sometimes my best intentions about remembering what caches I could not find get lost in the works.

 

Gosh guy, maybe you should try metal detecting. DNF it with an explanation why.

Link to comment

how do you know what amuses me?

 

maybe i'm amused by leaving expensive gifts in caches. or by carefully maintaining other people's cache containers. maybe i'm amused by carefully finding a cache and writing a decent log.

 

it's still about my amusement. there's no such thing as philanthropy. everything we do we do because it pleases us.

 

saints? it pleases them to be saints.

 

fat lotta nerve you have judging my attitude.

 

Ayn Rand? Is that you? Cool. We have much to discuss. :D

 

You are entirely right. Even the hair-shirt brigade chooses their positions because they like to itch. What they hate is for us to notice their enjoyment.

Link to comment

 

That's the saddest thing I've read today. Luckily it isn't true.

 

 

it is not sad, and it is patently true.

 

today i picked up a hitchhiker. a guy with some serious mental or developmental disability. i took him to where he was going, not on my way. it pleased me to do so.

 

last week i baked bread to bring to a homeless woman and tracked her down to give it to her because it pleased me to think that carefully crafted bread might bring her strength and hope.

 

the week before that i gave half of the food i had to a homeless couple because it pleased me to do it. something like four days' meals for them.

 

one can hope to be the kind of person who is pleased to perform acts of kindness, but in the end it really does come down to what pleases us, ourselves. everything is, ultimately about us.

 

if you have faith in a present and living God, do you think he is more pleased by your obedience out of fear or duty, or because you are intrinsically pleased to be obedient?

 

if you have children, do you want them to behave decently because they think you're watching, or because they have an internal sense of decency and they are pleased to be that way?

 

smaller scale: everyone who's left a trade item in a cache that's worth more than twenty dollars, raise your hand. more than fifty? and you didn't own up to it in the log? and left an anonymous note telling the next finder to just trade the nicest thing they had and consider the added value a gift?

 

ah. that's what i thought.

 

see, when i did it (and i've done it more than once) it was for my amusement. it pleased me to think that someone would enjoy that surprise.

 

now tell me i have a sucky attitude.

Link to comment

Here's my practice:

 

If there is at least one DNF just before me, the last log, if I can't find it I log a DNF.

If there is a log just within a few days and someone found it, but I can't and I looked really hard, I usually log a DNF. The key here is "looked really hard."

If I didn't really have time to look well because of whatever, especially being muggled, I do NOT log a DNF. Sometimes I'll just log a note that says "...got muggled" or "I looked but will try again."

If I couldn't find it and it's been a week or more since the last found it log, and I looked really well, I will often log a DNF just on the outside chance the cache is missing.

Link to comment

Depends...

 

If I do not find it, but plan on going back in the next few days or so I'll nt log it as a DNF... I may note it, if I have some questions and see if anyone answers...

 

If after I've made an honest to goodness effort and I do not think I'm going to be able to find it, its a DNF....

Link to comment

 

That's the saddest thing I've read today. Luckily it isn't true.

 

 

it is not sad, and it is patently true.

 

today i picked up a hitchhiker. a guy with some serious mental or developmental disability. i took him to where he was going, not on my way. it pleased me to do so.

 

last week i baked bread to bring to a homeless woman and tracked her down to give it to her because it pleased me to think that carefully crafted bread might bring her strength and hope.

 

the week before that i gave half of the food i had to a homeless couple because it pleased me to do it. something like four days' meals for them.

 

one can hope to be the kind of person who is pleased to perform acts of kindness, but in the end it really does come down to what pleases us, ourselves. everything is, ultimately about us.

 

if you have faith in a present and living God, do you think he is more pleased by your obedience out of fear or duty, or because you are intrinsically pleased to be obedient?

 

if you have children, do you want them to behave decently because they think you're watching, or because they have an internal sense of decency and they are pleased to be that way?

 

smaller scale: everyone who's left a trade item in a cache that's worth more than twenty dollars, raise your hand. more than fifty? and you didn't own up to it in the log? and left an anonymous note telling the next finder to just trade the nicest thing they had and consider the added value a gift?

 

ah. that's what i thought.

 

see, when i did it (and i've done it more than once) it was for my amusement. it pleased me to think that someone would enjoy that surprise.

 

now tell me i have a sucky attitude.

flask, for me you are still amusingly strange and strangely amusing. What you are also is yourself and I truly admire that. I find many truths in your posts and I thank you for sharing. Thank you.

Link to comment

 

That's the saddest thing I've read today. Luckily it isn't true.

 

 

it is not sad, and it is patently true.

 

today i picked up a hitchhiker. a guy with some serious mental or developmental disability. i took him to where he was going, not on my way. it pleased me to do so.

 

last week i baked bread to bring to a homeless woman and tracked her down to give it to her because it pleased me to think that carefully crafted bread might bring her strength and hope.

 

the week before that i gave half of the food i had to a homeless couple because it pleased me to do it. something like four days' meals for them.

 

one can hope to be the kind of person who is pleased to perform acts of kindness, but in the end it really does come down to what pleases us, ourselves. everything is, ultimately about us.

 

if you have faith in a present and living God, do you think he is more pleased by your obedience out of fear or duty, or because you are intrinsically pleased to be obedient?

 

if you have children, do you want them to behave decently because they think you're watching, or because they have an internal sense of decency and they are pleased to be that way?

 

smaller scale: everyone who's left a trade item in a cache that's worth more than twenty dollars, raise your hand. more than fifty? and you didn't own up to it in the log? and left an anonymous note telling the next finder to just trade the nicest thing they had and consider the added value a gift?

 

ah. that's what i thought.

 

see, when i did it (and i've done it more than once) it was for my amusement. it pleased me to think that someone would enjoy that surprise.

 

now tell me i have a sucky attitude.

flask, for me you are still amusingly strange and strangely amusing. What you are also is yourself and I truly admire that. I find many truths in your posts and I thank you for sharing. Thank you.

I'll second that. Thank you.

Link to comment

This is taken from our profile page:

 

My philosophy on DNF -

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

A simple statement of fact. No details.

 

It doesn't say we looked for 30 seconds; it doesn't say we looked for 30 minutes.

 

It doesn't say we knew the cache was still there; it doesn't say we thought the cache was missing.

 

It doesn’t say that we reached what we thought was Ground Zero.

 

It doesn’t say we failed.

 

It doesn't say any of the things that some people assume it means, other than that we Did Not Find the cache.

 

The DETAILS are in the logs.

 

We've posted a DNF because there were too many muggles near ground zero to safely search for and expose the cache. Why a DNF? Because we Did Not Find the cache. The details in the log could alert other cachers that they may want to choose their time to look for this one carefully.

 

We've been caught looking for a cache by someone who knew where it was. He even told us we were close before he left. Even with his clues, we couldn't find it. Logged the DNF. Not because we thought it might be missing, we knew it wasn't, but because we Did Not Find it.

 

We've logged DNF's on a couple of micro's in the woods. One was last logged over eight months previously, the other even longer than that. Both had occasional finds before that. Has nobody actually looked in all that time? Or have they just not logged the DNF's? We'll never know. If I were the CO, I'd want to know if anyone is even looking.

 

We even hold the first DNF on a cache that had 114 previous successful finds, and other finds after us. We logged the DNF, because we Did Not Find the cache. The details let other cachers know that sometimes you don't find them, even easy ones, for whatever reason, and that's OK.

 

If we have started heading for the cache, and something prevents us from completing the find, even if we have not reached Ground Zero, to me that is a DNF. We started for the cache and intended to find it, but Did Not Find it.

 

If, however, we start heading for a cache and have not reached Ground Zero, and we choose to not continue to that cache, the intent to find is no longer there, and in most cases I would not consider it a DNF.

 

DNF's are part of our caching experience, and the logs are where we document that experience.

Link to comment
This is taken from our profile page:

 

My philosophy on DNF -

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

A simple statement of fact. No details.

 

 

After all the rationalizing above your post about why if you Did Not Find a cache you should not post a DNF, it was refreshing to read your post.

 

I might quibble a bit about reaching Ground Zero as being necessary for a DNF, but I enjoyed reading such a clear explanation of what a DNF is.

Link to comment

one can hope to be the kind of person who is pleased to perform acts of kindness, but in the end it really does come down to what pleases us, ourselves. everything is, ultimately about us.

 

if you have faith in a present and living God, do you think he is more pleased by your obedience out of fear or duty, or because you are intrinsically pleased to be obedient?

 

now tell me i have a sucky attitude.

Well, since you asked, I do have faith in a present and living God, which means that everything I do is for Him. Not out of fear or duty, but love. Indeed, it does please me to live in a manner pleasing to Him, but my pleasure is not why I strive to live in such a way. Ultimately, everything is about my God. Thank goodness, because I'm not big enough to be the center of my universe.

 

Oh, I would never say that about anyone's attitude, not even jokingly. My own attitude is the one I need to keep an eye on.

 

And this is WAY off topic. In the words of that wise prophet of old Wolfman Jack, "Have a popsicle."

 

No DNFs today. I had to mow the lawn.

Link to comment

one can hope to be the kind of person who is pleased to perform acts of kindness, but in the end it really does come down to what pleases us, ourselves. everything is, ultimately about us.

 

if you have faith in a present and living God, do you think he is more pleased by your obedience out of fear or duty, or because you are intrinsically pleased to be obedient?

 

now tell me i have a sucky attitude.

Well, since you asked, I do have faith in a present and living God, which means that everything I do is for Him. Not out of fear or duty, but love. Indeed, it does please me to live in a manner pleasing to Him, but my pleasure is not why I strive to live in such a way. Ultimately, everything is about my God. Thank goodness, because I'm not big enough to be the center of my universe.

 

Oh, I would never say that about anyone's attitude, not even jokingly. My own attitude is the one I need to keep an eye on.

 

And this is WAY off topic. In the words of that wise prophet of old Wolfman Jack, "Have a popsicle."

 

No DNFs today. I had to mow the lawn.

 

Best Post Ever.

 

(nice sig line also!)

Link to comment

To me, this is a game. It is a battle of wits and also endurance. The hider may spend several hours creating a clever container and also finding a great place to hide the cache. How long I look or how many times I chose to come back is my part of the battle. If and when I chose to sign a DNF is me tipping my cap to the hider, "You got me", can you give me help to find your cache. Just like there are great hiders, there are great finders, if someone can do a great cache and outwit the finders they deserve the respect of a DNF. Just the opinion of a newb.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 5
×
×
  • Create New...