Google Earth add-in removed

[+Road Rabbit]

I was an early participant in this thread but dropped out because I don't find a lot of reward in beating my head against a wall.

 

I've been out of the country for several days and returned today only to find that the final end of the KML had arrived and this thread had grown tremendously. Obviously, a lot of customers are unhappy.

 

I'm curious about one thing, though. When will we be seeing the expected performance boost from the removal of this alleged resource hog? I haven't noticed any improvement since I last logged on over a week ago.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Road Rabbit

[g8gon]

how come someone makes a decision like dropping the kml without asking anyone....

its a great loss i must be one of the 200 and i am not pleased

 

NOT PLEASED AT ALL...

AS HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE

 

FIX IT DONT AXE IT

 

MUPPETS

[+mtn-man]

So how's that blazing speed GC website working for you now that all of us GE *panners* have been kicked out?

Well, let's see.

 

No topics with masses of people complaining about not getting pocket queries this weekend. No topics complaining about not getting to the web site today, on a busy Sunday no less. I just banged around a state search and opened several caches on the first results page. All cache pages opened very quickly.

 

Sounds like it is working pretty good! Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Maybe if the IPhone gadget and Twitter offline and maybey is it works faster, Or are that the toys for moderators.

I don't have an iPhone. I am a Verizon user. AT&T doesn't restrict sales of the iPhone to geocaching.com moderators. GC.com does not restrict sales of the GC iPhone App to moderators. Groundspeak doesn't give me an iPhone for free either. I bought an iPod Touch though, because music is a big part of my enjoyment of life. I owned it well before the GC App came out. I rarely use the GC app since I have an Oregon. I use pocket queries. I have a twitter account, but I don't use the GC functionality. I cannot imagine that the Twitter interface impacts the site that much at all. The only way I could see it doing that is if you click the link in someone's twitter feed and go to the cache page linked. I've never clicked on a single link in a Twitter or Facebook feed. How many people actually do?

 

It does raise a new question though. Could the KML have been restricted to off hours? So many possibilities that could have been explored and the only solution was to ax it.

Since this is a worldwide site, what would you consider "off hours"?

[+Allanon]

I'm glad I could get out of the way for you.

So are we, thank you.

 

Ya know what? I hadn't been running into those problems anyway. Outside of the site outage resulting from the fire. That being the case I never gave a rats rump what problems those who weren't smart enough to do their thing on the site in off hours ran into.

 

It does raise a new question though. Could the KML have been restricted to off hours? So many possibilities that could have been explored and the only solution was to ax it.

Off hours where? As has been pointed out, this is a global game...it's always "on hours" somewhere.

 

The only reason I posted my 'snarky' comment was because drives started it. Is that PC of me, probably not but I'm just that kind of guy.

 

I understand that people that used the KML are not happy, but I still contend that that there are many other ways (even if they are not as easy) to do the same thing. Get over it, and find another way or stop whining until the replacement in released.

[+Allanon]

how come someone makes a decision like dropping the kml without asking anyone....

It's not a democracy..it's a private company and they can to what they want...

[GOF and Bacall]

I'm glad I could get out of the way for you.

So are we, thank you.

 

Ya know what? I hadn't been running into those problems anyway. Outside of the site outage resulting from the fire. That being the case I never gave a rats rump what problems those who weren't smart enough to do their thing on the site in off hours ran into.

 

It does raise a new question though. Could the KML have been restricted to off hours? So many possibilities that could have been explored and the only solution was to ax it.

Off hours where? As has been pointed out, this is a global game...it's always "on hours" somewhere.

 

The only reason I posted my 'snarky' comment was because drives started it. Is that PC of me, probably not but I'm just that kind of guy.

 

I understand that people that used the KML are not happy, but I still contend that that there are many other ways (even if they are not as easy) to do the same thing. Get over it, and find another way or stop whining until the replacement in released.

 

By off hours I meant off peak demand. But i suspect you are smart enough to figure that out.

 

Not everything can be done without the KML. I hope they bring back that functionality but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

[+mtn-man]

By off hours I meant off peak demand. But i suspect you are smart enough to figure that out.

Oh please. Think about "off-peak" demand time. The US has to be asleep or getting there, the UK needs to be asleep and Germany needs to be just waking up. I think those are the high-user areas. If Groundspeak brought it back and said it would only function between 11 PM and Midnight Pacific Time, people would still complain that they can't use it when they need it so why even bother to bring it back. You know you would be right in there leading the pack.

[+Knight2000]

So how's that blazing speed GC website working for you now that all of us GE *panners* have been kicked out?

Well, let's see.

 

No topics with masses of people complaining about not getting pocket queries this weekend. No topics complaining about not getting to the web site today, on a busy Sunday no less. I just banged around a state search and opened several caches on the first results page. All cache pages opened very quickly.

 

Sounds like it is working pretty good! Thanks for pointing that out.

The maps are not fast. I'm kind of tired of the mods playing this down. The maps are not the same. Let's be honest about this.

 

[+mtn-man]

Please quote where we said they were the same. I never have. Yeah, the KML was cool but after the GC Google maps were introduced I never used it. The data on it is far more superior. One thing I hate about Google Earth is the fact that you cannot get off of the satellite view. The "Map" view is way easier to actually plan what you are doing than a "Satellite" view on the GC Google maps.

[+mtn-man]

I noted that the "200" refers to only those users that were panning 500+ times per day. This has been only recently revealed as the core problem that lead to the demise of the KML capability.

 

However, I remember distinctly that whenever I used the KML function in GE, it stated that I had only 200 views per day and it would count down each time I panned to a new area (or even slightly changed the viewing area). How, then, did anyone get to the quoted 500 hits per day?

 

I never reached anywhere near the 200 pans in any single day. Not even close.

 

What if a control was introduced that limited views to a much lower number per user. Heck, I'd accept just 50 per day limit if it would bring back the kml capability.

 

The kml function was invaluable (well, that's a bad term I guess) when I was planning a trip out of my local area (30 mile radius) that I have PQ coverage for. It allowed me to hone in on the areas I wanted at my destination that had caches I wanted, gave me the coordinates of the central point of the chosen area. From that I then could easily develop a PQ. Just one PQ.

 

A friend of mine was recently vacationing out of state. I was able to quickly determine if there were caches in the area he was in and help him develop a quick PQ. Then my kml died.....

 

BTW - I didn't care that the icons were randomly offset - I only wanted the general area anyway.

Moved from the other topic.

[+gof1]

By off hours I meant off peak demand. But i suspect you are smart enough to figure that out.

Oh please. Think about "off-peak" demand time. The US has to be asleep or getting there, the UK needs to be asleep and Germany needs to be just waking up. I think those are the high-user areas. If Groundspeak brought it back and said it would only function between 11 PM and Midnight Pacific Time, people would still complain that they can't use it when they need it so why even bother to bring it back. You know you would be right in there leading the pack.

 

I was thinking about peak demand times. Weekends from around noon Saturday to late Sunday EST are the only times I saw any problems that I thought of as load related. Sometimes Friday night. I don't have the site records so I can't say that those are the only times that are problems. I could definitely learn to compromise if we had it on for say Monday-Thursday. That was when most of my use was anyway, not that I never used it on weekends.

[+wandering4cache]

For some people, the KML was the easiest thing for them tech wise. Some people aren't tech savy enough to be doing PQs & getting them into GE on their own.

 

They just want to have fun caching. All this other stuff is too much for them.

[+miniwhip]

It's not a democracy..it's a private company and they can to what they want...

 

You are absolutely correct about this. But here's the greatest part of it.... Since we are part of a democracy, we can choose not to renew our premium memberships.

[+Allanon]

It's not a democracy..it's a private company and they can to what they want...

 

You are absolutely correct about this. But here's the greatest part of it.... Since we are part of a democracy, we can choose not to renew our premium memberships.

True, but if you think that threat is going to influence their decision, I think you are sorely mistaken...

[+miniwhip]

It's not a democracy..it's a private company and they can to what they want...

 

You are absolutely correct about this. But here's the greatest part of it.... Since we are part of a democracy, we can choose not to renew our premium memberships.

True, but if you think that threat is going to influence their decision, I think you are sorely mistaken...

 

When I make my decision not to renew my premium membership, I won't care about their decision.

[+Lil Devil]

That's OK. I'll continue paying for 3 memberships because I like Pocket Queries, and almost never used the KML.

[Danielc]

Please quote where we said they were the same. I never have. Yeah, the KML was cool but after the GC Google maps were introduced I never used it. The data on it is far more superior. One thing I hate about Google Earth is the fact that you cannot get off of the satellite view. The "Map" view is way easier to actually plan what you are doing than a "Satellite" view on the GC Google maps.

 

Bring up the cache "Leech Cave" Go to "Map" view. See how much sense your statement makes. "Map" view is great for City parks. Absolutely useless for some of us.

Cheers,

Dan

[+Knight2000]

Trying to log my caches and missing the kml badly now. After geotagging my pictures I used to open them in google earth to match each picture with the correct cache.

 

Now I have to try to find the appropriate PQ and load it. Cumbersome.

[+TotemLake]

For some people, the KML was the easiest thing for them tech wise. Some people aren't tech savy enough to be doing PQs & getting them into GE on their own.

 

They just want to have fun caching. All this other stuff is too much for them.

When it stops being fun, stop doing it.

[+gof1]

For some people, the KML was the easiest thing for them tech wise. Some people aren't tech savy enough to be doing PQs & getting them into GE on their own.

 

They just want to have fun caching. All this other stuff is too much for them.

When it stops being fun, stop doing it.

Now how sad is that. Forced to give up caching because it got too high tech.

 

I don't see many giving up the game over this. It will be great if we see some of the improvements to return this functionality. Until then we will for the most part learn some work arounds. That doesn't mean we will be happy about it. I just hope that we actually see the progress.

[+TotemLake]

For some people, the KML was the easiest thing for them tech wise. Some people aren't tech savy enough to be doing PQs & getting them into GE on their own.

 

They just want to have fun caching. All this other stuff is too much for them.

When it stops being fun, stop doing it.

Now how sad is that. Forced to give up caching because it got too high tech.

 

I don't see many giving up the game over this. It will be great if we see some of the improvements to return this functionality. Until then we will for the most part learn some work arounds. That doesn't mean we will be happy about it. I just hope that we actually see the progress.

It's always been my mantra to stop doing something that causes me nothing but frustration. Nobody's forcing anyone to give up caching because of the change. They're threatening to quit because of the change. Change is inevitable. You either embrace it, get out of the way, or be run over by it.

[+KADSTeam]

Short time newbie here. Just logged #60 today. Stumbled across my first cache by accident and got hooked. In case votes are being counted, in the brief time I've been using the KML file on GE, I found it to be very useful - more so than the GM available on the GC site - escpecially in regard to 3d terrain I live nearby. I miss it and vote for its repair and - even if restricted to limit the network impact to GC.com - its eventual return. I haven't noticed an improvement in GC network speed from before to after. I did notice how much a fire in an electrical room can ruin a planned July 4 weekend of caching, oh and how the unannounced "Network KML Link Disabled" can slow down a planned Geocaching lesson for a group of Cub Scouts at their summer camp since the route I had planned in GE now did not show the caches that had been planned to visit. Groundspeak - Are you reading these and counting???

[+mtn-man]

Please quote where we said they were the same. I never have. Yeah, the KML was cool but after the GC Google maps were introduced I never used it. The data on it is far more superior. One thing I hate about Google Earth is the fact that you cannot get off of the satellite view. The "Map" view is way easier to actually plan what you are doing than a "Satellite" view on the GC Google maps.

 

Bring up the cache "Leech Cave" Go to "Map" view. See how much sense your statement makes. "Map" view is great for City parks. Absolutely useless for some of us.

Cheers,

Dan

People have said that they use the KML file to drag the map around and look for bunches of caches trying to determine areas to go seek caches. They then pull PQ's to load into their GPS. One thing about the KML file is that it never displayed the exact location of the cache. As you dragged it around, the position changed. If you were using the KML file to plan your route to the top of a mountain, then every time you move the map, the position of the cache changes. If I were going to plan a route using Google Earth, I would want to grab a .gpx file for that cache and drag it over to Google Earth. Then, the location would be exact and never move as you drag, zoom and tilt the map. I would also use actual trail maps and/or topo maps of the area so I could find the best route, not Google Earth. At least the GC.com Google Map has a "Terrain" button which shows you the topo map. Neither show trails. If you are using the standard version of Google Earth with the GC.com KML file to plan a mountain hike, good luck with that.

 

Keep in mind that the big beef is that it was simple and easy to use to find cache density, not to plan mountain hikes to one cache, and even if you want to do that you get a more accurate representation of where the cache is by using the actual .gpx file and not a KML file.

 

[+mtn-man]

oh and how the unannounced "Network KML Link Disabled" can slow down a planned Geocaching lesson for a group of Cub Scouts at their summer camp since the route I had planned in GE now did not show the caches that had been planned to visit. Groundspeak - Are you reading these and counting???

Actually, it was announced here three months ago in this topic.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=219908

 

The link to the update topic was also posted in the Announcements section.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3910191

 

It is highly recommended that you subscribe to the Announcements section if you want to know about updates.

[+heckabronzr]

Yeah! Good job!

The speed has improved dramatically during the last days!

As I am one of those infamous "200", I hope GS will get the receipt for that immediately. You will receive mine as soon as possbile. Means: no KML,no renewal.

If I would treat my customers like you do, they would kick my ...

 

Cheers,

heckabronzr

[+Die Horde]

Hi

 

I'm also a premium member. I used until now only the google earth kml and the detailed information about the cache. "The Build Pocket Queries" are to slow and to troublesome for me. The google map on your website are to small (where is the fullscreen?) and to slow. And now you disabled the best feature? Tell me why i have to renew my premium account? For the pocket queries? No renew this year, sorry

 

I'm use the google earth kml to plan my hike trips or when I'm abroad i.e. all times- it's the best and the fastest way. Please bring this feature back!

 

Thank you

 

marius

Edited July 20, 2009 by Die Horde

[+ivanidea]

This is the 'terrain' map of an area near to where I live:

 

This is the map as seen in Google Earth, using the Ordnance Survey plugin:

 

Notice the extra detail we get. Our maps show public footpaths and other rights of way, not shown in Google Mapping, as well as the terrain. We also have a plugin for Firefox, which lets us see the same map details on the cache pages.

 

I know the cache positions were never accurate in GE, but I can at least see if the area has footpaths, as well as car parking.

 

As I have previously stated, GE was much quicker to navigate, is full screen, and had the ability of route planning, which was useful to see if there were any caches along my intended route.

[+ambiENTEN]

I liked to use the geocaching.com GE layer.

 

I am only a 'free' member but was planning this summer to upgrade to premium.

 

Now I gonna rethink about that.

Because, where does my money go?

 

Not into usefull addons!

 

Greets

 

ambienten

[+mtn-man]

This is the map as seen in Google Earth, using the Ordnance Survey plugin:

Yes, but most are not using any plugins. Most want it as easy as possible. Notice I said, "If you are using the standard version of Google Earth with the GC.com KML file to plan a mountain hike, good luck with that." If you are savy enough to go around and look for plugins and apply them, you are savy enough to do a simple drag of a .gpx file into Google Earth as well. When you are down to planning what trail you are going to take to a cache, you are beyond what most people use the KML file for. They do it for general looking around, looking for cache density or general locations. As I pointed out, if you are looking to actually plan a hike, since the KML file did not show the exact location, any planning would be only partially accurate at best.

[GOF and Bacall]

For some people, the KML was the easiest thing for them tech wise. Some people aren't tech savy enough to be doing PQs & getting them into GE on their own.

 

They just want to have fun caching. All this other stuff is too much for them.

When it stops being fun, stop doing it.

Now how sad is that. Forced to give up caching because it got too high tech.

 

I don't see many giving up the game over this. It will be great if we see some of the improvements to return this functionality. Until then we will for the most part learn some work arounds. That doesn't mean we will be happy about it. I just hope that we actually see the progress.

It's always been my mantra to stop doing something that causes me nothing but frustration. Nobody's forcing anyone to give up caching because of the change. They're threatening to quit because of the change. Change is inevitable. You either embrace it, get out of the way, or be run over by it.

 

Yeah, I meant by forced by circumstances, not anyone person or group.

[gse1986]

This is getting boring. I'm all for people making a point that they used the feature but it seems that GS aren't bringing it back, so can we not just move on?

[GOF and Bacall]

This is the map as seen in Google Earth, using the Ordnance Survey plugin:

Yes, but most are not using any plugins. Most want it as easy as possible. Notice I said, "If you are using the standard version of Google Earth with the GC.com KML file to plan a mountain hike, good luck with that." If you are savy enough to go around and look for plugins and apply them, you are savy enough to do a simple drag of a .gpx file into Google Earth as well. When you are down to planning what trail you are going to take to a cache, you are beyond what most people use the KML file for. They do it for general looking around, looking for cache density or general locations. As I pointed out, if you are looking to actually plan a hike, since the KML file did not show the exact location, any planning would be only partially accurate at best.

 

Yes, the KML had a fudge factor built in. I used it to get an over view, to plan a gross rout to an area that appeared to be to my liking for geocaching. If I needed the exact location of a cache, seldom, I just plugged in the coordinates from that cache.

 

I've actually managed to work without the KML. None of the work arounds are as simple. I hope that the development staff put serious effort into bringing back this functionality sooner rather than later.

[GOF and Bacall]

This is getting boring. I'm all for people making a point that they used the feature but it seems that GS aren't bringing it back, so can we not just move on?

 

No.

 

If you don't like this conversation then don't read this thread.

[gse1986]

This is getting boring. I'm all for people making a point that they used the feature but it seems that GS aren't bringing it back, so can we not just move on?

 

No.

 

If you don't like this conversation then don't read this thread.

 

I'm quite happy not to read this thread, but when I go on every forum and there's another thread about the same topic along with either a member of Groundspeak saying no or someone pasting messages in from Groundspeak saying no it gets tiresome

[GOF and Bacall]

This is getting boring. I'm all for people making a point that they used the feature but it seems that GS aren't bringing it back, so can we not just move on?

 

No.

 

If you don't like this conversation then don't read this thread.

 

I'm quite happy not to read this thread, but when I go on every forum and there's another thread about the same topic along with either a member of Groundspeak saying no or someone pasting messages in from Groundspeak saying no it gets tiresome

 

Many who don't frequent these forums are just now finding out that the KML stopped working. The result is a bunch of new threads questioning what is going on.

[+Nangeo]

This is the map as seen in Google Earth, using the Ordnance Survey plugin:

Yes, but most are not using any plugins. Most want it as easy as possible. Notice I said, "If you are using the standard version of Google Earth with the GC.com KML file to plan a mountain hike, good luck with that." If you are savy enough to go around and look for plugins and apply them, you are savy enough to do a simple drag of a .gpx file into Google Earth as well. When you are down to planning what trail you are going to take to a cache, you are beyond what most people use the KML file for. They do it for general looking around, looking for cache density or general locations. As I pointed out, if you are looking to actually plan a hike, since the KML file did not show the exact location, any planning would be only partially accurate at best.

 

Yes, the KML had a fudge factor built in. I used it to get an over view, to plan a gross rout to an area that appeared to be to my liking for geocaching. If I needed the exact location of a cache, seldom, I just plugged in the coordinates from that cache.

 

I've actually managed to work without the KML. None of the work arounds are as simple. I hope that the development staff put serious effort into bringing back this functionality sooner rather than later.

 

I fully agree. Things are much more complicated now. I won't think of becoming a premium member now.

[+J-Way]

This is getting boring. I'm all for people making a point that they used the feature but it seems that GS aren't bringing it back, so can we not just move on?

No.

If you don't like this conversation then don't read this thread.

I'm quite happy not to read this thread, but when I go on every forum and there's another thread about the same topic along with either a member of Groundspeak saying no or someone pasting messages in from Groundspeak saying no it gets tiresome

Many who don't frequent these forums are just now finding out that the KML stopped working. The result is a bunch of new threads questioning what is going on.

That was going to be my response. People who don't cache during the week might have just found out the final shutdown this past weekend. More will find out this weekend or next week. Others don't use it for local caching but DID use it to plan caching while on vacation. There will be a LOT of Americans going on vacations during the next month, and some will discover the disabled KML at that time. Expect this thread to continue for a while.

[+cron]

I fully agree. Things are much more complicated now. I won't think of becoming a premium member now.

 

But that's the beauty of the actual system! You *can* use it for free! Every time you click somewhere on the site, they get some money out of the ads. That's probably better than the 30$ you would give them...

[+dcrep]

People have said that they use the KML file to drag the map around and look for bunches of caches trying to determine areas to go seek caches. They then pull PQ's to load into their GPS. One thing about the KML file is that it never displayed the exact location of the cache. As you dragged it around, the position changed. If you were using the KML file to plan your route to the top of a mountain, then every time you move the map, the position of the cache changes.

 

The so-called 'fuzziness' of GE was irrelevant to its utility. No one grabbed exact coords of a cache by zooming in on the GE icon; as a planning tool, close is close enough. The benefits of GE outweighed, by an order of magnitude, the inaccuracy of the GE cache icon.

[+Team Sogen]

Just lost my KML functionality over the past weekend . Add me to the long list of users who are very dissappointed. This was a crucial tool in planning caching trips. I always used it to plan routes, view elevations, and introduce new users to GC. I'm sure I can manage without it, but it will be sorely missed.

[underw0rld]

I've used the google earth plugin everytime when I decided which geocache I will search. It's pissing me of that the best feature of geocaching.com has been removed...

[+EleriandBlade]

I used the KML regularly, even when I wasn't actively geocaching. I run an event that uses GPS devices, and I was *always* using the KML to find which caches were going to be near where our site was. I could make paths, section off an area of park, figure out distances from multiple thumbtacks. I can't get *nearly* the same amount of data onto the maps on GC.c and now the KML is down with a week and a half to go until the next big event, and I'm having to do a huge amount of mapping manually. Grr.

[Rich & Ray]

Try not to get too hung up on the number "200". The important point is that GE was negatively impacting user experience out of proportion to its usefulness. We don't make a decision like this in a vacuum, and I assure you we are not cackling like a bully who just stole your lolli. It's not in our interest as a business to upset you needlessly.

 

Why shouldn't we - is it a falsehood??? Only 200 worldwide - very very doubtful - I know of at least 4 people where I live alone! No we don't think you make a decision like this in a vacuum, but you certainly do not consider all the consequences. Hmm only 200 people using GE was negatively impacting - something is wrong if that is the case - could it be that the number 200 is not true?

 

There have been many instances in the past where a change made to the site was negatively received and Groundspeak reversed it. I'm afraid this is not one of them. No amount of petitioning will bring back the network KML, but if you do have requests for mapping enhancements I'm all ears.

 

Nice to know that the premium user’s voices are heard and considered in decisions. Sure I have some suggestions - How about replacing the capability of looking in an area you are going to be in and create a route for that area. How about the ability to find caches in the DeLorme or other cache challenge quickly and easily. How about being able to DRAW shapes/co-ordinates for an area for caches - oh and by the way - not by having to burn 1 of the precious 5 queries that we are allowed daily. These are just a few of them. I am sorry but GM is NOT the same as GE and doesn't function the same. Was that considered in the decision?

 

I feel that once folks get past the mourning period and start exploring other options you'll all be much happier. I am very sorry for those of you whose routine has been disrupted by this change. I know what that's like. I would just encourage you to adapt to a new way of Geocaching so you can get past this and back to enjoying the game. We'll get back to making the site better.

 

What options would you suggest that are not GM related since it CAN NOT function like GE did???

 

PS - The KML link will expire at different times for different people (2-3 weeks). This is why for some of you it is still active.

 

Yep, that is right mine expired today, hence the post I have made today. I did a cache run last weekend based off a route created in GE and was gonna make one for next weekend today, but low and behold - The infamous message - Network KML Link Disabled - The Network KML Link has been disabled. Please visit http://www.geocaching.com Seattle, WA 98121

 

Well I did and here I am, frustrated with the other "199" users of GE feature. Maybe the other "199" users and I can have a party and sing Cum By Yah upon deaf ears.

 

Frustrated - You bet. Angry - Yep. Supporter of Geocaching.com - Yes. Continue to support Geocaching.com - probably. Recommend Geocaching.com - possibly. Done ranting - for now. Feel better - somewhat. Agree with the other "199" left out in the cold - YES.

 

Stepping off my soap box now and done with my $0.000000000002 worth (You know the economy)

[+mtn-man]

People have said that they use the KML file to drag the map around and look for bunches of caches trying to determine areas to go seek caches. They then pull PQ's to load into their GPS. One thing about the KML file is that it never displayed the exact location of the cache. As you dragged it around, the position changed. If you were using the KML file to plan your route to the top of a mountain, then every time you move the map, the position of the cache changes.

 

The so-called 'fuzziness' of GE was irrelevant to its utility. No one grabbed exact coords of a cache by zooming in on the GE icon; as a planning tool, close is close enough. The benefits of GE outweighed, by an order of magnitude, the inaccuracy of the GE cache icon.

Yes, but you are pulling a small part of a quote out of a much larger post with a much different use of the KLM being explained. You actually confirm what I was saying in the entirety of that post, part of which is basically agreeing with what you have said. If you go back and read the question I was answering and my entire post that would be great.

 

 

Why shouldn't we - is it a falsehood??? Only 200 worldwide - very very doubtful - I know of at least 4 people where I live alone! No we don't think you make a decision like this in a vacuum, but you certainly do not consider all the consequences. Hmm only 200 people using GE was negatively impacting - something is wrong if that is the case - could it be that the number 200 is not true?

Rich & Ray, you are responding to a post from three months ago and almost 700 posts ago. The "200" number has been explained a few days ago in more detail back in post number 413 in this topic. I will once again post another link to the post by Raine with a full explanation.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...amp;pid=3995721

[+Sissycats]

It seems like this forum is only here for pissed off people to say how pissed off they are and a moderator to tell us we're a bunch of losers. How do we let someone know who can actually do something about it?

[+klipsch49er]

It seems like this forum is only here for pissed off people to say how pissed off they are and a moderator to tell us we're a bunch of losers. How do we let someone know who can actually do something about it?

 

Sad part is the Moderators have zero control or influence over what can or may be done. It would be interesting to understand what (if any) is the escallation path for an issue that arrises in this game. Clearly there are many users that are very unhappy with no recourse but to rant to Moderators of a Forum who should be commended for their efforts but have no real capability to help resolve this situation.

 

How about someone who has more responsibility than Moderating this board come and say something?

 

In some of my earlier messages I have been more hostile due to being stripped of my favorite feature, for that I aplogize. I have to say, however, that I'm becomming much more frustrated by what appears to be a lack of concern by GS. I understand it is easier to let the Moderators handle the issue until it slowly fades away. But I caution GS to learn the lessons of many other business that have ignored it's customer base. In the short term it may be a fiscally responsible decision that will come back to bite you in the wallet!

 

BTW I am an Administrator on 2 forums, a webmaster for one web site, and a moderator on 2 other forums. The issue here is that lack of interest by GS as preceived byt the customers expressing their opinions in the thread.

 

Viva the 200! May they eventually get their issue heard!

Edited July 21, 2009 by klipsch49er

[+Middleleaze Moles]

I too am disappointed by the removal of this tool. I do not like the GC mapping feature at all, not least because I can't print it effectively. I note what is said about importing files into GE and will look at that feature, but the ease with which the KLM feature could be viewed was it's key for me!

[+DENelson83]

If you want to use KML without having to download Google Earth, the Google Maps website accepts KML file locations just fine.

[+It's grim oop Nurth]

It was removed in yesterday's site update. Only used by about 200 people and caused significant performance problems for everyone else.

 

I don't think that i have ever heard quite as much cow-doo in my life!

 

Pls demonstrate the basis of the useage figures and performance issues you cite.

[+It's grim oop Nurth]

As some one who didn't use the Google Earth, I'm not sure my two cents is welcome on this thread but I will offer it anyway. What I see in this thread is the constant refrain, "I used this. I liked this. I want it back. I don't care if it impacts on site performance for everyone I liked it. I don't care what explanation you give me I want it. I pay you the magnificent sum of $30 per year and so I have a right to tell you what to do. I don't want to adapt. I don't want to change. Using GSAK or PQs to view caches isn't good enough. Everyone else has to suffer so I can have exactly what I want."

 

Raine has provided a clear explanation of both how the 200 figure was arrived at and the impact on site performance. What I think they are saying is that a small percentage of users of the site made use of this feature and the use of the feature significantly impacted on site performance. If this is true and I don't think any of you can prove that it isn't, I think it is reasonable to turn off a feature that was inversely affecting site performance for the large number of users who were not using the feature.

 

Remember we are talking about what a small staff can realistically accomplish in terms of updating features. Should they be spending time on modifying your beloved KML or should they complete work on the new method of PQ delivery. There are limited resources and a large to do list. I also pay to support the site and would prefer that other features take priority.

Team Taran

 

So you didn't use it but you use the site for other things, correct?

Well imagine if the thing that you pay to use the site for is simply not there one day when you log-in; no notice given, no mail sent, not even any tip-off to the many non-GS e-mail communities (at least not to any of the mailers that mail me re: geocaching stuff).

 

You may not have used it, you may not wish to use it, but the fact remains that now you cannot use it even if you wanted to.

 

I will say this, however, that the KML was the only reason that I remained loyal to Groundspeak. There are others you know.

 

I will also say that you are correct in stating that they are a small team with limited resources. Unfortunately for them they are a big player and, given the size of the team, as they cornered a growing market based upon goodwill they necesarily become more autocratic in prioritising scarce resources.

 

One can only feel that the iPhone arrangement will provide a similar service to the KML. The only difference being that one will provide a revenue stream and one will not.

 

If there is a server out there that can find sufficient personnel willing to run a KML service, one that has the vision to see it as a valuable commodity, then i for on am willing to pay for it.

 

and pay for it with my cancelled Groundspeak subscription if necessary.

 

Now you can call that selfish behaviour to the detriment of others but i say that Groundspeak have missed a trick here, but what would i know? I'm just a customer that believed he had paid for a service only to find that the service has been taken away a replaced with an alternative that is less good and much more inefficient.

 

Such is not the way that successful enterprises operate.