'Envioronmental' Cache Vandals

[+Dragontree]

Recently in Northants and North Beds we have and are experiencing a spate of Cache destruction by a person or persons registering under a variety of names and claiming to be protecting the countryside from our 'environmental trash' which they remove and destroy.

 

Any comments or similar happenings where you are?

[+Bill D (wwh)]

Comparatively little of our countryside is natural. Most of it is farmed or otherwise managed by humans, and has changed drastically over the centuries as a result.

 

Considering all the fences, gates, farm buildings, signs, notices, trigpoints and all the other artefacts that "litter" our countyside, I'm afraid I find it difficult to take seriously the idea that a small hidden box is a problem.

 

Little things, though, please little minds, and the theft of caches is an ongoing problem, though usually a local and short-term thing.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Bill D (wwh)

[+fat bloke]

I blame Country File , the bit shown was poor and gave the wrong impression there is a lot of country people out there some nice and Others?

[+uktim]

I blame Country File , the bit shown was poor and gave the wrong impression there is a lot of country people out there some nice and Others?

 

I doubt it makes much difference how good the feature is. As people do more magazine, TV or radio features the problems will increase. We have a thriving and growing hobby, it's beyond me why some people feel a need to publicise it more widely

Edited April 3, 2009 by uktim

[+Yorkie30]

The caches could be made available to premium members only or a smaller charge to join the site could be made, this may stop people just signing up for mischeif and spoiling the hobby although this may put off genuine newcomers..... not a easy one to sovle.

[+ITCHYthirdEYE]

I'M FROM NORTHANTS, ITS NEWS TO ME, WHERE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

[jlggps]

Some profilic local cache owners here in Northants are now starting to make all caches for premium members only. It is a shame they feel forced into doing this, especially for those of us who are non premium members (and midway some big series grr), and for those new who might wish to take caching up.

 

Also of course this won't stop someone who is determined and prepared to simply pay $10.

 

I wonder if it might be possible to make some more vulnerable caches available only to those with more than 5, 10, 50 or 100+ finds? Then at least someone would need to actually cache in order to be a problem, and a ban would be significant.

 

The whole idea of maintained caches being environmental trash is of course silly - all the more so since Geocaching promotes CITO (Cache in Trash out). One can only assume people who steal caches are just idiots. Rather ironically all they are actually doing in effect is encouraging more people to pay a subscription to a Company which promotes Geocaching (which I'm guessing is the opposite of what they want)...

 

As well, life is full of idiots, caching isn't guaranteed to be an exception.

[+SaltercreaseRangers]

That really is enviro - MENTAL !

Perhaps they are about to launch a new line of yoghurt & raffia cache containers and this is their approach to create a niche in the market ?

 

On the other hand, if this relatively recent we are of course in half term season and this could all die down when a local bunch of hormonal teenagers go back to school ?

[+Cassie's Crusaders]

We've had at least 2 of caches trashed by these people and a couple more are possibly missing. We've made our caches premium only as a temporary measure to protect them. It would be nice if we could pass information over to genuine cachers who want to find them and change the cache listing to let them log them. I might put a note on a couple of caches to see if it works.

[+Bill D (wwh)]

Also of course this (Premium Membership) won't stop someone who is determined and prepared to simply pay $10.

I pay my sub monthly by PayPal. It's 3 USD a month, which at the moment is about 2 GBP. So for just two quid someone can get all the info they need then cancel their Premium Membership before the next payment is due.

[jlggps]

I pay my sub monthly by PayPal. It's 3 USD a month, which at the moment is about 2 GBP.

 

I stand corrected Sir!

 

And Cassie's Crusaders, I'm East Northants too and saw your caches change status, as well as an example of what we're talking about (which I'd fortunately visited a short time ago before this). Shame, but understand.

 

I suppose there are a few categories of people who do this:

 

- People who remove caches because they have no permission to be there,

- People who remove caches because they feel they shouldn't be there because of the specific nature of the area (areas of SSI etc) even though there is permission to place

- People who are malicious and enjoy the negative impact on others

- Random vandals who simply come across the cache (usually kids)

 

The 1st group of course have right on their side (if the land owner/agency), though it would be nicer to contact the cache owner to negotiate a solution or at least notify them they need to move it.

 

The 2nd group although in the wrong if there is permission to place, are perhaps possible to negotiate something with.

 

The 4th group is a fact of life, but not usually a problem in non urban locations.

 

The 3rd group is evidence of some of the more unpleasant tendencies of human nature

 

I think pretty much the only thing we can do is to accept it is a fact of caching and continue as best we can. On the plus point, it does make me want to actually start placing some caches (with proper permission) which I'm long overdue for

[+Bambography]

I've now had one of mine trashed. It was only a film canister so i'm not going to be loosing too much sleep tonight. If you have ammo cans or any cache which you don't want to loose, it might be worth taking it in for a bit. I don't want to sound OTT, but they clearly have no regard for others property.

My main thought is that if anyone has caches in these areas and you know that there are TBs or Geocoins in your caches, get them out NOW!

If you are worries about placing them again then i'm more than happy to help them get released elsewhere in the country!

 

I'm sure they'll get bored and move onto their next crusade soon enough. I just think it sad that people think this way!

[+Bambography]

This is the message you get.

c1089161 found Identical Twins (Traditional Cache) at 4/7/2009

 

Log Date: 4/7/2009

This has been "groped" (GROup for Environmental Protection). The container and it's contents have been removed and destroyed.

 

Your environmental vandalism will NOT be tolerated.

 

Is it rude to point out that GROup for Environmental Protection would be GROEP, not GROPE...!?!

Edited April 7, 2009 by Bambography

[+Watford Wobble]

I've had three caches go missing in the first quarter of 2009. These all located around the Watford, Northampton village area. Two were clip top boxes and one a nano.

 

When the first nano went missing I thought it very strange as it was covered by a small door fashioned out of a branch. Even TAG who was FTF commented that it will get some people searching. The second and third caches were in isolated locations and I just can't imagine this being due to opportunistic muggles. I thought to myself then that I was maybe being targeted.

 

All caches had my details contained within them even mobile and e-mail address so can't imagine it being these enviro 'mentalists' going round at the moment. Or maybe it was.

 

I wasn't aware of a possible larger problem until I saw Dragontree and TAG Premium Member some of their caches on my watchlist. I will leave mine as they are for the moment. I only have a few but feel really sorry for members who put a great deal of work into series and other caches only for them to be vulnerable to these nasty people.

[+Bill D (wwh)]

If GROEP has genuiine concerns about the environment, which I very much doubt, then I hope he/she/they/it follow the practice which many cachers do, and carry several large bin liners around with them whenever they venture out into our litter-covered countryside.

 

As for the muddled acronym, well, I suppose that tells us something about them...

[+T A G]

Two more today bringing the total so far (that we know of) to eight.

 

I have plotted them on Memory map and so far they seem to be following the A6 A605 corridor from Santa Pod area to Oundle.

 

First thoughts were kids as they are on holiday from school, but the distance involved tends to rule that out. Also they are all traditional caches so far.

 

It’s sad that I had to make most of my caches member only, but I hope you will understand why, particularly my new series which took a considerable time to set up.

 

TAG

[+Middleleaze Moles]

Two more today bringing the total so far (that we know of) to eight.

 

I have plotted them on Memory map and so far they seem to be following the A6 A605 corridor from Santa Pod area to Oundle.

 

First thoughts were kids as they are on holiday from school, but the distance involved tends to rule that out. Also they are all traditional caches so far.

 

It’s sad that I had to make most of my caches member only, but I hope you will understand why, particularly my new series which took a considerable time to set up.

 

TAG

 

Sorry to see that you have had to do this. We are visiting Northants this weekend for a friend's birthday party and I had already uploaded the co-ordinates of three of your caches to attempt. Have only been doing this for 4 weeks and intend to become premium at some stage - I guess this just advances it. Would be interested to know which of your caches are missing in case we still try the ones we have ready.

[+T A G]

Two more today bringing the total so far (that we know of) to eight.

 

I have plotted them on Memory map and so far they seem to be following the A6 A605 corridor from Santa Pod area to Oundle.

 

First thoughts were kids as they are on holiday from school, but the distance involved tends to rule that out. Also they are all traditional caches so far.

 

It’s sad that I had to make most of my caches member only, but I hope you will understand why, particularly my new series which took a considerable time to set up.

 

TAG

 

Sorry to see that you have had to do this. We are visiting Northants this weekend for a friend's birthday party and I had already uploaded the co-ordinates of three of your caches to attempt. Have only been doing this for 4 weeks and intend to become premium at some stage - I guess this just advances it. Would be interested to know which of your caches are missing in case we still try the ones we have ready.

 

My caches are as far as I know unaffected so far, I had one trashed some months ago but that has been archived.

TAG

[+Middleleaze Moles]

Two more today bringing the total so far (that we know of) to eight.

 

I have plotted them on Memory map and so far they seem to be following the A6 A605 corridor from Santa Pod area to Oundle.

 

First thoughts were kids as they are on holiday from school, but the distance involved tends to rule that out. Also they are all traditional caches so far.

 

It’s sad that I had to make most of my caches member only, but I hope you will understand why, particularly my new series which took a considerable time to set up.

 

TAG

 

Sorry to see that you have had to do this. We are visiting Northants this weekend for a friend's birthday party and I had already uploaded the co-ordinates of three of your caches to attempt. Have only been doing this for 4 weeks and intend to become premium at some stage - I guess this just advances it. Would be interested to know which of your caches are missing in case we still try the ones we have ready.

 

My caches are as far as I know unaffected so far, I had one trashed some months ago but that has been archived.

TAG

 

Thanks for that! Took the opportunity to upgrade anyway!!!! Hope to attain some of your caches at the weekend!

[+T A G]

The caches concerned are:

GC1EAQV

GC13W4M

GC1BDQ9

GC1D9EN

GC16MHW

GC1N62K

GC1PE18

GC18X7P

[jlggps]

It’s sad that I had to make most of my caches member only, but I hope you will understand why, particularly my new series which took a considerable time to set up.

 

TAG

 

I can certainly understand that - fortunately I'd printed off the series the day before, and I've managed to add myself to most of the watch lists after the fact. I won't be able to log the finds unless something changes, but to be honest that's less important to me than following a great series in the outdoors such as this.

[+nightsurfer]

One of my caches has fallen victim to this bunch (or is it just one or two people in a car?).

 

It was placed near the village of Bythorn, just off the A1 / A14, so it looks like they are headed South from the Peterborough area.

 

Such a sad way to gain enjoyment, especially as they must have the equipment and would otherwise be amassing a healthy find tally.

[+T A G]

Two more have just been logged!!

GC162DR

GC14N8M

[+Deepdiggingmole]

This is the message you get.

c1089161 found Identical Twins (Traditional Cache) at 4/7/2009

 

Log Date: 4/7/2009

This has been "groped" (GROup for Environmental Protection). The container and it's contents have been removed and destroyed.

 

Your environmental vandalism will NOT be tolerated.

 

Is it rude to point out that GROup for Environmental Protection would be GROEP, not GROPE...!?!

 

If any of the caches that I own that have been placed with specific permission get removed by anyone claiming to be doing it for the enviroment will be causing criminal damage in the least though more fittingly Theft - I would like to think that if this happened Groundspeak should be able to assist in identifying these people through their membership - or am I being completely unrealistic

[+T A G]

And another!

GC1D22F

[+T A G]

Just in case any one is wondering, I have put a watch on all caches 5 miles from the 'epicentre', presently Raunds!

[+sonatellas]

I always wondered if this sort of group would start on us. The thing is that if they spent their time actually going out and collecting rubbish in our countyside like we do then it would be time well spent. They are completely missing the point. It might have to go back to the days of virtuals. That would be a good way to get around it. Not the same I know but just one thought are these environmentalists driving everywhere to do this?

[+Watford Wobble]

What I find particularly shallow is that the individual or group haven't even got the balls, courage or conviction in their claims to identify themselves.

 

Oh well it will only make me the more determined to continue.

[+Bambography]

If anyone is visiting the oundle area and wants to find some of the newly converted Member only caches rhen just drop me an email and I will forward you the details. Then once we convert them back to 'anyone' then you can log them. They will only be MO until this passes.

 

Also, has anyone been out and actually checked that they have taken the container?? Speaking to people near Oundle, one of the GROEPed caches caused a seasoned cachet problems so GROEPers did well to find it, if indeed they did!

[+T A G]

Just discovered a couple more from a few days ago,

GC1DJW7

GCB2A8

 

That's 13 now!

[Neath Worthies]

When you all reported them to Groundspeak, what was their reaction? I'm surprised the account(s?) is still active.

[+Bambography]

They are using a fresh new account for each cache they attack. You could disable one, but it would be a waste of time!

[+Yorkie30]

Has this just started again around the school holidays? Could it be bored kids who misunderstand the sport and think it's fun to ruin things?

Also do Groundspeak block their email address from opening a new account once one is closed, I know it is easy to open email accounts but it may slow them down abit.

[+Bambography]

See posts above, all too spread out to be kids.

[+JoJoJeJe]

So it seems that they are using a car to travel to and destroy caches in the name of Environmental protection? contradiction much?

 

They're probably living in the first area where the first caches were destroyed and seem to be destroying caches with TBs and geocoins in (to me).

 

I'm sure Groundspeak has an IP blocking facility, more reliable than email?

I can't see an area where you can report members?

Edited April 8, 2009 by JoJoZombie

[+T A G]

When you all reported them to Groundspeak, what was their reaction? I'm surprised the account(s?) is still active.

Would you believe so far NOTHING,

[+T A G]

They are using a fresh new account for each cache they attack. You could disable one, but it would be a waste of time!

Yes but they would all have the same IP Address, if from same computer!!

[+T A G]

So it seems that they are using a car to travel to and destroy caches in the name of Environmental protection? contradiction much?

 

They're probably living in the first area where the first caches were destroyed and seem to be destroying caches with TBs and geocoins in (to me).

 

I'm sure Groundspeak has an IP blocking facility, more reliable than email?

I can't see an area where you can report members?

I'm sure they have, but as we have yet to hear back from them we don't really know! Edited April 9, 2009 by The Allotment Gardener

[+Bambography]

They are using a fresh new account for each cache they attack. You could disable one, but it would be a waste of time!

Yes but they would all have the same IP Address, if from same computer!!

Most ISPs charge extra for a static IP. My understanding is that it can change everytime you log onto to the internet.

[+Primitive Person]

I would suggest a "war of attrition" type approach - replace every single "GROPEd" cache as soon as possible, and keep doing so every time it gets removed.

 

I suspect this will pass soon enough. I doubt there's any high-minded principles involved, and I suspect it's one or two people with a grudge who will soon get bored and give up.

 

Once again, I'd be wary of discussing this too much in the open, as it gives them what most of these people crave - publicity.

 

Lee

[+andyfee]

They are using a fresh new account for each cache they attack. You could disable one, but it would be a waste of time!

Yes but they would all have the same IP Address, if from same computer!!

Most ISPs charge extra for a static IP. My understanding is that it can change everytime you log onto to the internet.

 

The ISP i work for, when the router is switched off, and then regains sync again you are given the Next IP address availible. So you may get the same one back, and then the otherway a didffernt IP address may be given. Some companies do provide a static IP though.

 

There are various means to hide your IP anyway.

[+andyfee]

To add to the above comment. You can find the ISP from the IP address. Why don't groudspeak, forward these IP address to the ISP, from there they can be traced to the person using that IP address at the time and then the ISP can bar them from using A brodband connection.

[+uk89camaro]

Found a note in this one today...

 

Lilbourne

[+Simply Paul]

Am I correct in saying all these trashed/removed caches are Trads? Take 'Gecaching.com Google Map' links, clear clues and one or more green (in more than the environmental sense) vigilantes and you've a recipe for easy muggling, sans expensive GPS. Hide more simple Off-set Multis!

[+Windy Corner]

Hi,

 

We've just had one of ours done in the same manner ("Lutterworth in Flight" and on checking his profile for today, he/she has done 3 others today all with the same username. "c1213696"

 

I have sent an email to Groundspeak, will see what they say if / when they reply.

 

I will make all my other caches Premium Member only for now and see what happens

 

Alternatively I may collect all mine in tomorrow.

 

Rik

[+Windy Corner]

The four I referred to above are :-

 

GC1KA5N - 138 - Mattyboy

GC1KA5W - Coppice Cache - Mattyboy

GCNXJT - Launch Point - Fluufys Revenge

GCYJQ1 - Lutterworth in Flight - Windy Corner

 

R

[+seacarrot12]

The four I referred to above are :-

 

GC1KA5N - 138 - Mattyboy

GC1KA5W - Coppice Cache - Mattyboy

GCNXJT - Launch Point - Fluufys Revenge

GCYJQ1 - Lutterworth in Flight - Windy Corner

 

R

I've just come on here to warn of this but it seems you already know....Odd that Lutterworth in Flight was apparently logged buy these plonkers some time after it has been muggled.

 

I think we need these caches checking to see if they are still present or just malicious posting.

 

Bit concerned thou, i'm not that far away from this area where this person purports to have trashed caches.

Edited April 9, 2009 by seacarrot12

[+mattyboy]

Yep, two of mine 'gone' I'll check them in the morning.

What next? closure of bridleways/footpaths?

losers.

Mattyboy

[+seacarrot12]

Yep, two of mine 'gone' I'll check them in the morning.

What next? closure of bridleways/footpaths?

losers.

Mattyboy

Hi Mattyboy, can you let us know on here if there are problems with your caches, then we will know the severity of these posts.

 

Hope all is well.

[+mattyboy]

I'll pop out now and check my '138' cache.

Back soon