How could someone do this?

[+GallifreyStands]

As I was going to perform maintenance on my cache, LEEn on me, I found this in the grapevines about 10 ft away from the cache.... Do people really get this upset at a DNF that they have to leave this for kids to potentially find? This really hurt me... There's a young cacher named Travasaurus that I've met whos really cool and he found this cache just a few days after this was left here. I'm really glad he didnt see this... and what kills me is....THE CACHE WAS THERE.....and he left trash in a beautiful park......not exactly what Geocaching is about.

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This has left a really bad taste in my mouth.... (and no it wasnt saintmain, who is travasaurus' dad, because the paper says "16.3 miles from your home coordinates" and SM lives roughly 2 miles away)

[+GallifreyStands]

the price we pay i guess....and I really thought geocaching would be a safe haven from this

[+kdbstlrfan]

It is truly sad what some will do. I have not encountered anything quite this bad, but it just gos to show that all types are here. I hope you can find some mouth wash to rinse that bad taste away soon.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

This has left a really bad taste in my mouth.... (and no it wasnt saintmain, who is travasaurus' dad, because the paper says "16.3 miles from your home coordinates" and SM lives roughly 2 miles away)

 

I seriously doubt whoever did that would log online. Hmm, 16.3 miles from their home coords, eh? If people can figure out where caches are before they're published from TB drops, I'm sure they could... Never mind, just kidding.

[+GallifreyStands]

 

This has left a really bad taste in my mouth.... (and no it wasnt saintmain, who is travasaurus' dad, because the paper says "16.3 miles from your home coordinates" and SM lives roughly 2 miles away)

 

I seriously doubt whoever did that would log online. Hmm, 16.3 miles from their home coords, eh? If people can figure out where caches are before they're published from TB drops, I'm sure they could... Never mind, just kidding.

 

Unless logging that it was a waste of time....

[+BlueDeuce]

I can appreciate your disappointment in a fellow cacher.

 

Ignore them completely. They'll eventually move on to other easier things to cry about. It's all about getting attention by annoying the people around them. Don't feed the need.

Edited September 20, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+stargazer21]

 

This has left a really bad taste in my mouth.... (and no it wasnt saintmain, who is travasaurus' dad, because the paper says "16.3 miles from your home coordinates" and SM lives roughly 2 miles away)

 

I seriously doubt whoever did that would log online. Hmm, 16.3 miles from their home coords, eh? If people can figure out where caches are before they're published from TB drops, I'm sure they could... Never mind, just kidding.

 

Unless logging that it was a waste of time....

 

I'm so sorry sweetie. Albert Einstein once said "There are two things that are infinite...human stupidity and the universe...and I'm not even sure about the second."

 

Focus on the Corpus Christi cacher...that's the vast majority of cachers.

[bogleman]

ahhh the draw of the almighty strikes again

[+GallifreyStands]

ahhh the draw of the almighty strikes again

i dont get it

[+GallifreyStands]

ahhh the draw of the almighty strikes again

i dont get it

Ohhh.....now i get it....

[Mr.Yuck]

ahhh the draw of the almighty strikes again

i dont get it

Ohhh.....now i get it....

 

Took me several minutes, but I got it too. Yeah, people look for geocaches with the intention of finding the cache, and are sometimes quite disappointed when they don't. They don't normally litter, and leave nasty messages on the litter about the cacne owner though.

[+Buggheart]

I'm so sorry that this happened and it's got you upset. It's really unfortunate and disappointing but please try not to let one crabapple ruin your fun and focus on all the people who were happy to find your cache. Hugs

[+flask]

the price we pay i guess....and I really thought geocaching would be a safe haven from this

 

why would you think cachers are any better on average than everyone else?

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

the price we pay i guess....and I really thought geocaching would be a safe haven from this

 

why would you think cachers are any better on average than everyone else?

 

Because we're God's gift to tupperware.

 

- Elle

[Mushtang]

the price we pay i guess....and I really thought geocaching would be a safe haven from this

why would you think cachers are any better on average than everyone else?

I like to think that geocachers are a slightly higher intelligent group on average simply because so many aspects of our game takes some intelligence.

 

First of all you need to be pretty computer literate to really get into programming your GPS, downloading waypoints, creating routes, using mapping software, etc. I understand that not all of that is necessary to go geocaching, but it's something most of us do and it requires some smarts.

 

Secondly, the whole game is just nerdy as can be. To get excited about using this technology in this way, to play hide and seek with the GPS system, is again sort of indicative of the things that higher intelligent people get excited about.

 

That's not to say that idiots aren't among us, it's just an explanation why I see the average geocacher as smarter than the average non-geocacher. And I also happen to think that the average person that both feels threatened by homosexuality and thinks it's okay to do the things described in the OP has a much much lower intelligence than the average person.

 

So I can definitely see where dancerboi might have felt less likely to get hassled by a geocacher. It's too bad he was wrong.

 

BTW, I agree with most of the posters that you should just ignore it if you can, unless it happens more and/or becomes a bigger problem. To let one thing like this sour you on the game would be a shame.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

the price we pay i guess....and I really thought geocaching would be a safe haven from this

why would you think cachers are any better on average than everyone else?

I like to think that geocachers are a slightly higher intelligent group on average simply because so many aspects of our game takes some intelligence.

 

First of all you need to be pretty computer literate to really get into programming your GPS, downloading waypoints, creating routes, using mapping software, etc. I understand that not all of that is necessary to go geocaching, but it's something most of us do and it requires some smarts.

 

Secondly, the whole game is just nerdy as can be. To get excited about using this technology in this way, to play hide and seek with the GPS system, is again sort of indicative of the things that higher intelligent people get excited about.

 

 

And Third, Geocaching is an Earth-friendly activity that encourages volunteerism to improve and protect the environment, not to litter it up. There is education and programs that are integrated into the Geocaching sport towards this aim, so geocachers should be more aware than the average person about the importance of the environment and negative impacts of littering.

 

- Elle

[+flask]

we'd like to think hatred belongs to people of lesser intelligence, but it's all over the honkin' place.

 

as for the computer literacy piece, the internet has been a godsend to hate groups of every stripe. it is their single best tool.

 

my experience of geocachers is that there is slightly MORE anti-gay and racial bias than in the general population, or at least the portion of the general population in which i travel.

 

i also have not found geocachers to be any smarter than anyone else. i have met more barely literate people through geocaching than anywhere else in my life, ever. if i count up all the people i know who are dumber 'n' a shovel, most of 'em i know through geocaching.

 

i knew these people existed, but they didn't travel in my sphere until i took up this sport. maybe it's a coincidence; maybe i was trapped in an insular population of socially liberal geniuses, but even if that's true geocachers are still no better than the average cross section of the population.

[4wheelin_fool]

As I was going to perform maintenance on my cache, LEEn on me, I found this in the grapevines about 10 ft away from the cache.... Do people really get this upset at a DNF that they have to leave this for kids to potentially find?

 

I wouldn't be concerned about kids finding it.

It was most likely a kid that wrote that comment and left the printout nearby. That type of language is used mostly by 13 and 14 year olds who haven't reached puberty yet and are "worried". Sometimes it carries onto adulthood but since there is no evidence of that, just throw it away and forget about it.

[+Bad_CRC]

there are a lot of bad cachers out there. But Ive learned from the forums that we should pretend they dont exist and that other people did this, because cachers are never bad people.

[+whistler & co.]

It's amazing how rude, ignorant, petty, and just plain mean people can be! Well, the best you can do is just ignore them and know that MOST cachers are decent folks. Cache on, guys!

[Mr.Yuck]

As I was going to perform maintenance on my cache, LEEn on me, I found this in the grapevines about 10 ft away from the cache.... Do people really get this upset at a DNF that they have to leave this for kids to potentially find?

 

I wouldn't be concerned about kids finding it.

It was most likely a kid that wrote that comment and left the printout nearby. That type of language is used mostly by 13 and 14 year olds who haven't reached puberty yet and are "worried". Sometimes it carries onto adulthood but since there is no evidence of that, just throw it away and forget about it.

 

More likely than not it was done by teen cachers, but you never know. Yeah, put me down with all the "throw it away and forget about it" advice.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

my experience of geocachers is that there is slightly MORE anti-gay and racial bias than in the general population, or at least the portion of the general population in which i travel.

 

That's alarming since, living in the US South, I think I encounter more homophobia and racism than I'd ever want to admit. Since I'm straight-acting and white, I can only imagine how difficult life must be for people who are gay or ... not white. It's crazy! I'd like to think the sport is a refuge from that kind of BS but maybe that's just me turning away from the issue (very easy to do when you're not to one being discriminated against).

 

What a shame.

 

- Elle

 

PS for EDIT: Confusing typo is confusing! Fixed!

Edited September 20, 2008 by HauntHunters

[+Star*Hopper]

It can only bother you as much as you let it.

Period.

 

~*

[+blb9556]

I have seen things like this before. No surprise to me this happen.

[+brainandbraun]

I found a cache that was found by kids, they wrote profane things in the log. Cache container was crushed. I logged my find, repaired the container best I could and re-hid where I thought was the right spot and notified owner. Have had cachers respond rudely because they had trouble finding mine. I guess they expect all caches to be right out in the open and gps to work to the nearest nano-meter.

[+rjb43nh]

While there is absolutely no justification for what has happened to you, at the same time your posting the online logs and pointing the finger at a person who may have had nothing to do with it is just as bad. Stick to the high road and remove that image from your post.

[Mushtang]

we'd like to think hatred belongs to people of lesser intelligence, but it's all over the honkin' place.

 

as for the computer literacy piece, the internet has been a godsend to hate groups of every stripe. it is their single best tool.

 

my experience of geocachers is that there is slightly MORE anti-gay and racial bias than in the general population, or at least the portion of the general population in which i travel.

 

i also have not found geocachers to be any smarter than anyone else. i have met more barely literate people through geocaching than anywhere else in my life, ever. if i count up all the people i know who are dumber 'n' a shovel, most of 'em i know through geocaching.

 

i knew these people existed, but they didn't travel in my sphere until i took up this sport. maybe it's a coincidence; maybe i was trapped in an insular population of socially liberal geniuses, but even if that's true geocachers are still no better than the average cross section of the population.

I can understand that you would have a completely different viewpoint on what is or isn't anti-gay than I would, and you would have formed an opinion about a group of people with that bias helping form your opinion.

 

However, from my chair, I still think the higher average intelligence a group has the less likely someone in that group will be anti-gay (or racist, or any other group hating view), and since I see geocachers as somewhat above average intelligence I would think they're less likely to be anti-gay, on average.

 

Unfortunately the average still allows for a few complete jerks to exist in the group.

[+GallifreyStands]

As I was going to perform maintenance on my cache, LEEn on me, I found this in the grapevines about 10 ft away from the cache.... Do people really get this upset at a DNF that they have to leave this for kids to potentially find?

 

I wouldn't be concerned about kids finding it.

It was most likely a kid that wrote that comment and left the printout nearby. That type of language is used mostly by 13 and 14 year olds who haven't reached puberty yet and are "worried". Sometimes it carries onto adulthood but since there is no evidence of that, just throw it away and forget about it.

 

This is Texas....its used by everyone, almost as commonly as "and"

[+flask]

It can only bother you as much as you let it.

Period.

 

~*

 

that's just silly.

 

have you ever been the target of a stalker? harassment? lost a job or been beaten up for being gay? it shouldn't be up to the target to be un-bothered by it.

 

when i was in college for some reason i was singled out and all kinds of epithets were written on my door. trash and slimy stuff (i shudder to think) got left for me. the guy came by my room every night between midnight and three to pound on my door and wake me up before running away.

 

should i have not let it bother me?

 

 

being the target of hate speech and similar such harassments SHOULD bother you and any decent people.

 

when my friend francis got called "faggot" every day and stuffed into other people's lockers, should i have told him not to let it bother him?

 

when a woman i know got fired from a very good job when her boss found out she was gay, should she not have let it bother her when she had to take a substandard minimum wage job to support her kids?

 

when the old synagogue in the north end got swastikas painted on it, should that congregation have decided not to be bothered?

 

hey, you can only be as bothered as you let it. that makes it your own fault if you decide that you would like to be treated with rightful respect, your own fault if you don't like harassment.

[+Okiebryan]

I agree that this was wrong. Just plain wrong. However, I've found that since I restricted what I allow myself to get upset about only to things I can control or influence, I've become a far happier and less stressed person.

 

Get angry about it, have your awakening when you realize you can't change it, and then very forcefully let it go.

 

Just free advice that's worth every penny you paid for it.

[+GallifreyStands]

It can only bother you as much as you let it.

Period.

 

~*

 

that's just silly.

 

have you ever been the target of a stalker? harassment? lost a job or been beaten up for being gay? it shouldn't be up to the target to be un-bothered by it.

 

when i was in college for some reason i was singled out and all kinds of epithets were written on my door. trash and slimy stuff (i shudder to think) got left for me. the guy came by my room every night between midnight and three to pound on my door and wake me up before running away.

 

should i have not let it bother me?

 

 

being the target of hate speech and similar such harassments SHOULD bother you and any decent people.

 

when my friend francis got called "faggot" every day and stuffed into other people's lockers, should i have told him not to let it bother him?

 

when a woman i know got fired from a very good job when her boss found out she was gay, should she not have let it bother her when she had to take a substandard minimum wage job to support her kids?

 

when the old synagogue in the north end got swastikas painted on it, should that congregation have decided not to be bothered?

 

hey, you can only be as bothered as you let it. that makes it your own fault if you decide that you would like to be treated with rightful respect, your own fault if you don't like harassment.

 

Wow

[Mushtang]

It can only bother you as much as you let it.

Period.

 

~*

that's just silly.

 

have you ever been the target of a stalker? harassment? lost a job or been beaten up for being gay? it shouldn't be up to the target to be un-bothered by it.

 

when i was in college for some reason i was singled out and all kinds of epithets were written on my door. trash and slimy stuff (i shudder to think) got left for me. the guy came by my room every night between midnight and three to pound on my door and wake me up before running away.

 

should i have not let it bother me?

 

 

being the target of hate speech and similar such harassments SHOULD bother you and any decent people.

 

when my friend francis got called "faggot" every day and stuffed into other people's lockers, should i have told him not to let it bother him?

 

when a woman i know got fired from a very good job when her boss found out she was gay, should she not have let it bother her when she had to take a substandard minimum wage job to support her kids?

 

when the old synagogue in the north end got swastikas painted on it, should that congregation have decided not to be bothered?

 

hey, you can only be as bothered as you let it. that makes it your own fault if you decide that you would like to be treated with rightful respect, your own fault if you don't like harassment.

Wow, that's really a large strawman argument you've made there.

 

Starhopper said the names written on the trash in the woods can only bother you as much as you let it. That's not even close to being equal to stalking, assault and battery (like being beaten up or being stuffed into a locker), having your personal property damaged (like your door or the swastikas), losing your job, etc.

 

Starhopper: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

Flask: "Oh yeah, well what about when someone breaks your legs with a bat while they're using the bad words? Should we not care about those words?"

[+GrnXnham]

Before you condemn the 2 people who DNF'd the cache, consider the possiblity that two different people wrote on the cache page.

 

The cachers wrote "DNF" and then accidentally dropped the cache page. Then some muggles (kids obviously) found the cache page and wrote the "F" word on there.

 

It DOES look like the same writing, however, I'm just saying that there is a possibility that neither of the people who DNF'd your cache wrote the bad word on there.

 

Just trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

[+hydnsek]

You're not the only one to find nasty commentary near a cache recently, albeit my "discovery" was left by a non-cacher. After hiking to Round Top Mountain in NE Washington state last month, I found the cache vandalized and this note left nearby (I blurred out the X-rated parts):

 

 

Despite the opening line, let me just say: it was definitely NOT written by a victim. Sicko stuff. As my log indicates, I contacted the authorities, just in case.

[+flask]

It can only bother you as much as you let it.

Period.

 

~*

that's just silly.

 

have you ever been the target of a stalker? harassment? lost a job or been beaten up for being gay? it shouldn't be up to the target to be un-bothered by it.

 

when i was in college for some reason i was singled out and all kinds of epithets were written on my door. trash and slimy stuff (i shudder to think) got left for me. the guy came by my room every night between midnight and three to pound on my door and wake me up before running away.

 

should i have not let it bother me?

 

 

being the target of hate speech and similar such harassments SHOULD bother you and any decent people.

 

when my friend francis got called "faggot" every day and stuffed into other people's lockers, should i have told him not to let it bother him?

 

when a woman i know got fired from a very good job when her boss found out she was gay, should she not have let it bother her when she had to take a substandard minimum wage job to support her kids?

 

when the old synagogue in the north end got swastikas painted on it, should that congregation have decided not to be bothered?

 

hey, you can only be as bothered as you let it. that makes it your own fault if you decide that you would like to be treated with rightful respect, your own fault if you don't like harassment.

Wow, that's really a large strawman argument you've made there.

 

Starhopper said the names written on the trash in the woods can only bother you as much as you let it. That's not even close to being equal to stalking, assault and battery (like being beaten up or being stuffed into a locker), having your personal property damaged (like your door or the swastikas), losing your job, etc.

 

Starhopper: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

Flask: "Oh yeah, well what about when someone breaks your legs with a bat while they're using the bad words? Should we not care about those words?"

 

no, not a strawman.

 

when a pattern of these words is present, it is harassment. it is part of the conditions that some people go through on a daily basis. it is harmful tot he people who are targeted and in many cases privileged people somehow think it's ok and that targeted populations should just lighten up.

 

it's THAT attitude that leads to acceptance of more harmful acts. in recent memory juries have acquitted people of beating or killing "faggots" because the defendant said he thought the guy was coming on to him.

 

anti-gay bias in particular is subtle and prevalent. you want to call something useless? people say it's "gay". want to describe a person you don't like? "faggot". they're just words, but the prevalence of them and the accompanying attitude makes for a very difficult life.

 

the woman with the two kids eventually got anther job and lives well, but she's still bothered by anti-gay bias.

 

my friend francis came to believe that the name calling people were right and that there was something about him that was wrong and inherently bad, a thing he could not change. he put a shotgun in his mouth and died before he turned 14.

[Trinity's Crew]

As others have already said, just forget it. They aren't worth the angst.

[+BlueDeuce]

As others have already said, just forget it. They aren't worth the angst.

 

Good advice for caches or the forums. eh?

[Mushtang]

no, not a strawman.

 

when a pattern of these words is present, it is harassment. it is part of the conditions that some people go through on a daily basis. it is harmful tot he people who are targeted and in many cases privileged people somehow think it's ok and that targeted populations should just lighten up.

 

it's THAT attitude that leads to acceptance of more harmful acts. in recent memory juries have acquitted people of beating or killing "faggots" because the defendant said he thought the guy was coming on to him.

 

anti-gay bias in particular is subtle and prevalent. you want to call something useless? people say it's "gay". want to describe a person you don't like? "faggot". they're just words, but the prevalence of them and the accompanying attitude makes for a very difficult life.

 

the woman with the two kids eventually got anther job and lives well, but she's still bothered by anti-gay bias.

 

my friend francis came to believe that the name calling people were right and that there was something about him that was wrong and inherently bad, a thing he could not change. he put a shotgun in his mouth and died before he turned 14.

It was a strawman, and how this is a different but similar one. I wasn't suggesting that gay bashing be okay. To argue against the idea that targeted populations should just lighten up when I never made that assertion is a strawman.

 

What I, and starhopper, and others in this thread have said is it was a horrible thing to do and it shouldn't have been done. However, it's a word on a piece of paper left in the woods - it was NOT beating the cache owner because the finder thought he was coming onto him. If the cache owner wants to get his shorts in a bunch over it he's going to be a lot less happy then if he lets it roll off his back.

 

And this isn't "advice for gay people" either, it's "advice for people". It's the same thing my parents taught me, and the same thing I'll teach my son. Some idiot calling you names is just looking to get a reaction out of you. Give them one and they'll keep it up. Let it go and they'll move on.

 

(Advice for gay people - if they don't move on, and it escalates into harassment or assault, file charges)

[Trinity's Crew]

As others have already said, just forget it. They aren't worth the angst.

 

Good advice for caches or the forums. eh?

Absolutely. Once you stop having fun you should stop.

[+Buggheart]

no, not a strawman.

 

when a pattern of these words is present, it is harassment. it is part of the conditions that some people go through on a daily basis. it is harmful tot he people who are targeted and in many cases privileged people somehow think it's ok and that targeted populations should just lighten up.

 

it's THAT attitude that leads to acceptance of more harmful acts. in recent memory juries have acquitted people of beating or killing "faggots" because the defendant said he thought the guy was coming on to him.

 

anti-gay bias in particular is subtle and prevalent. you want to call something useless? people say it's "gay". want to describe a person you don't like? "faggot". they're just words, but the prevalence of them and the accompanying attitude makes for a very difficult life.

 

the woman with the two kids eventually got anther job and lives well, but she's still bothered by anti-gay bias.

 

my friend francis came to believe that the name calling people were right and that there was something about him that was wrong and inherently bad, a thing he could not change. he put a shotgun in his mouth and died before he turned 14.

It was a strawman, and how this is a different but similar one. I wasn't suggesting that gay bashing be okay. To argue against the idea that targeted populations should just lighten up when I never made that assertion is a strawman.

 

What I, and starhopper, and others in this thread have said is it was a horrible thing to do and it shouldn't have been done. However, it's a word on a piece of paper left in the woods - it was NOT beating the cache owner because the finder thought he was coming onto him. If the cache owner wants to get his shorts in a bunch over it he's going to be a lot less happy then if he lets it roll off his back.

 

And this isn't "advice for gay people" either, it's "advice for people". It's the same thing my parents taught me, and the same thing I'll teach my son. Some idiot calling you names is just looking to get a reaction out of you. Give them one and they'll keep it up. Let it go and they'll move on.

 

(Advice for gay people - if they don't move on, and it escalates into harassment or assault, file charges)

 

Could not agree with you more, Mushtang. There is a huge difference between the comments written on the printed cache and harassment, stalking, etc. Neither of these scenarios are appropriate or mature and should not have been done, but they are merely words and not an assault. Not much different than someone flipping the bird on the highway and or calling someone fat or ugly. Does it hurt, you bet it does. I've been on the receiving end of those kind of comments as well as relentless sexual harassment in my workplace but if I took my ball, went home, and never emerged again who is the loser in that situation? Me. Choosing to respond/react calmly and coming to the realization that the small-minded person who chooses to leave mean things at a cache location or call someone else names is the person with the problem is a step in the right direction for overcoming the stuff ignorant people do to others.

 

Hang in there, NYCdancerboi, and remember all the people whose day was brightened by finding your cache. There's little to be gained by dwelling on the negative behavior of others.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Buggheart

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

There is a huge difference between the comments written on the printed cache and harassment, stalking, etc. Neither of these scenarios are appropriate or mature and should not have been done, but they are merely words and not an assault.

 

I think what flask was getting at is something that's known as Hatespeak. Hatespeak is a serious concern because it takes specific insults, known as slurs, and uses them to create negative associations against a specific group of people. I'm sure we're all familiar with what hatespeak is so I needn't provide additional examples than what has already been discussed.

 

The sneaky thing about hatespeak is that it does take the "it's just words, ignore it" form. It's graffiti written on the wall, or somebody's frustration scribble on a piece of litter, or maybe some high school kid trying to curse about his tough math teacher. Hatespeak does not need to be a direct order to damage someone who is part of a specific group. It is based on association and becomes damaging the more this association is accepted. Once these words are associated, it is difficult to disassociate. Disassociating negative meanings from words is a process called Reclaiming.

 

Reclaiming would not be necessary if words meant nothing or had no impact. It is significant that these slurs take a casual place in language, and it should be more alarming than it is. For the people here who don't agree with homophobic ideas that gay people are weird or different, you should agree that using homophobic slurs in such a casual way to say "I think poorly about this person or thing" is completely unacceptable.

 

Even more importantly, we cannot ignore that these negative associations, these slurs, do lead to violence. If we use these terms and perpetuate the negativity, we are culpable to the violence that follows as a result of what is absolutely and nothing other than hatespeak. To shift the responsibility of the impact of hatespeak on the people who are being discriminated against and damaged is called "blaming the victim". By claiming that gay people ought to ignore the word "f-g-word", this is blaming the victim instead of addressing the hatespeak.

 

So, on this one, I obviously agree with flask.

 

- Elle

[+Kit Fox]

 

I think what flask was getting at is something that's known as Hatespeak. Hatespeak is a serious concern because it takes specific insults, known as slurs, and uses them to create negative associations against a specific group of people. I'm sure we're all familiar with what hatespeak is so I needn't provide additional examples than what has already been discussed.

 

The sneaky thing about hatespeak is that it does take the "it's just words, ignore it" form. It's graffiti written on the wall, or somebody's frustration scribble on a piece of litter, or maybe some high school kid trying to curse about his tough math teacher. Hatespeak does not need to be a direct order to damage someone who is part of a specific group. It is based on association and becomes damaging the more this association is accepted. Once these words are associated, it is difficult to disassociate. Disassociating negative meanings from words is a process called Reclaiming.

 

Thats an interesting theory of "Victimology."

 

Reclaiming would not be necessary if words meant nothing or had no impact. It is significant that these slurs take a casual place in language, and it should be more alarming than it is. For the people here who don't agree with homophobic ideas that gay people are weird or different, you should agree that using homophobic slurs in such a casual way to say "I think poorly about this person or thing" is completely unacceptable.

 

It is unacceptable, but it is called life. Not everyone agrees with the "lifestyle, choice, genetics" or whatever you want to call it. Last time I checked people are still entitled to their personal opinions, whether you agree with them or not. Whoever tossed the cache page on the ground feels strongly about the issue, and has a legal right to feel the way he does.

 

nycdancerboi,

 

You should hide a series of nice caches 16.3 miles Southwest of the DNFed cache.

 

Even more importantly, we cannot ignore that these negative associations, these slurs, do lead to violence. If we use these terms and perpetuate the negativity, we are culpable to the violence that follows as a result of what is absolutely and nothing other than hatespeak. To shift the responsibility of the impact of hatespeak on the people who are being discriminated against and damaged is called "blaming the victim". By claiming that gay people ought to ignore the word "f-g-word", this is blaming the victim instead of addressing the hatespeak.

 

So, on this one, I obviously agree with flask.

 

- Elle

 

Hatespeak is a code word for suppression of free speech. While I don't agree with your point of view, I will defend your right to speak freely.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+tozainamboku]

 

I think what flask was getting at is something that's known as Hatespeak. Hatespeak is a serious concern because it takes specific insults, known as slurs, and uses them to create negative associations against a specific group of people. I'm sure we're all familiar with what hatespeak is so I needn't provide additional examples than what has already been discussed.

 

The sneaky thing about hatespeak is that it does take the "it's just words, ignore it" form. It's graffiti written on the wall, or somebody's frustration scribble on a piece of litter, or maybe some high school kid trying to curse about his tough math teacher. Hatespeak does not need to be a direct order to damage someone who is part of a specific group. It is based on association and becomes damaging the more this association is accepted. Once these words are associated, it is difficult to disassociate. Disassociating negative meanings from words is a process called Reclaiming.

 

Thats an interesting theory of "Victimology."

 

Reclaiming would not be necessary if words meant nothing or had no impact. It is significant that these slurs take a casual place in language, and it should be more alarming than it is. For the people here who don't agree with homophobic ideas that gay people are weird or different, you should agree that using homophobic slurs in such a casual way to say "I think poorly about this person or thing" is completely unacceptable.

 

It is unacceptable, but it is called life. Not everyone agrees with the "lifestyle, choice, genetics" or whatever you want to call it. Last time I checked people are still entitled to their personal opinions, whether you agree with them or not. Whoever tossed the cache page on the ground feels strongly about the issue, and has a legal right to feel the way he does.

 

nycdancerboi,

 

You should hide a series of nice caches 16.3 miles Southwest of the DNFed cache.

 

Even more importantly, we cannot ignore that these negative associations, these slurs, do lead to violence. If we use these terms and perpetuate the negativity, we are culpable to the violence that follows as a result of what is absolutely and nothing other than hatespeak. To shift the responsibility of the impact of hatespeak on the people who are being discriminated against and damaged is called "blaming the victim". By claiming that gay people ought to ignore the word "f-g-word", this is blaming the victim instead of addressing the hatespeak.

 

So, on this one, I obviously agree with flask.

 

- Elle

 

Hatespeak is a code word for suppression of free speech. While I don't agree with your point of view, I will defend your right to speak freely.

I was going to post that flask's example of the harm that just words could do was important in showing why we shouldn't condone the use of homophobic and racist slurs by saying they're only words on paper or even just vibrations in the air that soon fade away. The use of these words, particularly when others remain silent in not speaking out against them, can lead to tragic consequences as flask has pointed out. But I didn't post anything because I was sure that someone would use that to criticize me for saying that bogus found it logs aren't causing any perceptible harm to geocaching. Any harm someone would suffer from a bogus log is nothing compared to the harm flask has pointed out being caused by using these slurs.

 

As soon as I saw HauntHunters post refering to hatespeak as one word, I knew that the Rush Limbaugh dittoheads would pounce on that as trying to stop free speech. Does the 1st Amendment protect the use of these words. It probably does. It certainly allows one to express a negative opinion about homosexuals or non whites or non Christians or whites or Christians or heterosexuals. There may be words or situations where the speech goes over the line and incites violence or encourages criminal activity. There are laws that limit speech in these situations. There may be times when the use of these words directed at an individual can be viewed as slander (or libel if written and published) and civil laws could result in penalties against the person using this speech. But even where the speech is protected, we should realize that people's feelings are hurt by words. People can be moved to take action by words can stir emotions to the degree that people feel the need to take action. And sometimes that action is violent.

 

Strangely enough, not finding a cache has also been known to cause an emotional response that makes otherwise rationale and decent people curse, swear, and sometimes behave violently. I'm not saying that it excuses hurling crude epithets at the cache owner. But it is possible that the person had just gotten so frustrated at not finding a cache that they wrote something they normally would have kept to themselves.

[+traildad]

 

I was going to post that flask's example of the harm that just words could do was important in showing why we shouldn't condone the use of homophobic and racist slurs by saying they're only words on paper or even just vibrations in the air that soon fade away. The use of these words, particularly when others remain silent in not speaking out against them, can lead to tragic consequences as flask has pointed out. But I didn't post anything because I was sure that someone would use that to criticize me for saying that bogus found it logs aren't causing any perceptible harm to geocaching. Any harm someone would suffer from a bogus log is nothing compared to the harm flask has pointed out being caused by using these slurs.

 

As soon as I saw HauntHunters post refering to hatespeak as one word, I knew that the Rush Limbaugh dittoheads would pounce on that as trying to stop free speech. Does the 1st Amendment protect the use of these words. It probably does. It certainly allows one to express a negative opinion about homosexuals or non whites or non Christians or whites or Christians or heterosexuals. There may be words or situations where the speech goes over the line and incites violence or encourages criminal activity. There are laws that limit speech in these situations. There may be times when the use of these words directed at an individual can be viewed as slander (or libel if written and published) and civil laws could result in penalties against the person using this speech. But even where the speech is protected, we should realize that people's feelings are hurt by words. People can be moved to take action by words can stir emotions to the degree that people feel the need to take action. And sometimes that action is violent.

 

Strangely enough, not finding a cache has also been known to cause an emotional response that makes otherwise rationale and decent people curse, swear, and sometimes behave violently. I'm not saying that it excuses hurling crude epithets at the cache owner. But it is possible that the person had just gotten so frustrated at not finding a cache that they wrote something they normally would have kept to themselves.

I agree with you that we shouldn't condone the use of hate speech anymore than false logs. I am not sure why you would bring that subject up in this topic. I would say that maybe you are over analyzing this whole thing a bit.

[+traildad]

As others have already said, just forget it. They aren't worth the angst.

I wonder what it feels like to have someone tell you to forget your hurt, anger or pain. Does it really help them feel better, or does it come across as though someone is saying that you are over reacting.

 

Maybe...

Wow that is a really awful thing for someone to do. When I have something like that happen to me I try to remember that anyone that would do that must have emotional problems. Then I make it a point to go hunt some great caches and try to forget about it. It really is all I can do about it anyway. I hope it never happens again. Cache On

[+Buggheart]

As others have already said, just forget it. They aren't worth the angst.

I wonder what it feels like to have someone tell you to forget your hurt, anger or pain. Does it really help them feel better, or does it come across as though someone is saying that you are over reacting.

 

Maybe...

Wow that is a really awful thing for someone to do. When I have something like that happen to me I try to remember that anyone that would do that must have emotional problems. Then I make it a point to go hunt some great caches and try to forget about it. It really is all I can do about it anyway. I hope it never happens again. Cache On

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't saying "I make it a point to go hunt some great caches and try to forget about it" mean the same as what TrinityCrew said? Am I missing something?

 

If someone were to suggest that I forget about something hurtful I would view that as that person telling me that I'm overreacting. I would take it as that person saying something caring about me; reminding me that I am a good person, a bigger person for turning the other cheek and choosing not to feel victimized by the ignorance of others but to rise above it and move on with dignity and grace. So yeah, it totally makes me feel better. I'm sure that others might disagree and feel that the person saying that is implying overreaction and that's cool too, but I know when I said to NYCDancerBoi to forget about it, I said it out of compassion and understanding and not to stir any pots or imply that he overreacted.

 

Edited: because I am gramatically challenged this evening and left out a whole sentence.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Buggheart

[+BlueDeuce]

I understand what you are saying, but when we say ignore it we are not talking about addressing the effects and impacts for such behavior we are saying that you shouldn't feed a troll.

 

I would say ignore any follow-up posting as well.

[+traildad]

As others have already said, just forget it. They aren't worth the angst.

I wonder what it feels like to have someone tell you to forget your hurt, anger or pain. Does it really help them feel better, or does it come across as though someone is saying that you are over reacting.

 

Maybe...

Wow that is a really awful thing for someone to do. When I have something like that happen to me I try to remember that anyone that would do that must have emotional problems. Then I make it a point to go hunt some great caches and try to forget about it. It really is all I can do about it anyway. I hope it never happens again. Cache On

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't saying "I make it a point to go hunt some great caches and try to forget about it" mean the same as what TrinityCrew said? Am I missing something?

To tell them what I do is to offer an example. To tell them what to do is not the same as I see it. I see this a lot on the forum. Someone writes about some negative experience and they get a potful of replies telling them to forget it. I can't count the number of times I have seen someone say reacting to it will only encourage it. Without pointing to any one post in particular, it just seems to lack empathy and almost tells them they are wrong to feel bad. It also seems common to suggest that it will only encourage the bad behavior. I would tend to believe that they did it because of who they are and they don't need to be encouraged to be that way.

 

I would also like to say that I don't think TrinityCrew intended anything other than to help. This is something that has been building up after reading many posts on lots of different topics.

 

If someone were to suggest that I forget about something hurtful I would view that as that person telling me that I'm overreacting. I would take it as that person saying something caring about me; reminding me that I am a good person, a bigger person for turning the other cheek and choosing not to feel victimized by the ignorance of others but to rise above it and move on with dignity and grace. So yeah, it totally makes me feel better. I'm sure that others might disagree and feel that the person saying that is implying overreaction and that's cool too, but I know when I said to NYCDancerBoi to forget about it, I said it out of compassion and understanding and not to stir any pots or imply that he overreacted.

 

Edited: because I am gramatically challenged this evening and left out a whole sentence.

[+Kit Fox]

 

As soon as I saw HauntHunters post refering to hatespeak as one word, I knew that the Rush Limbaugh dittoheads would pounce on that as trying to stop free speech.

 

One does not need to be a "dittohead" to believe in free speech.

 

Does the 1st Amendment protect the use of these words. It probably does. It certainly allows one to express a negative opinion about homosexuals or non whites or non Christians or whites or Christians or heterosexuals.

 

It is the same 1st amendment flaunted by homosexuals who produce and sell sex toys in the shape of the cross of calvary and of Jesus to express their disdain for Christianity (which I find highly offensive ) yet i've never tried to suppress their right to sell their wares.

 

There may be words or situations where the speech goes over the line and incites violence or encourages criminal activity. There are laws that limit speech in these situations. There may be times when the use of these words directed at an individual can be viewed as slander (or libel if written and published) and civil laws could result in penalties against the person using this speech. But even where the speech is protected, we should realize that people's feelings are hurt by words. People can be moved to take action by words can stir emotions to the degree that people feel the need to take action. And sometimes that action is violent.

 

The same can be said of the "silent majority" that is sick and tired of being told what they should feel, what they should or shouldn't say. This is also the group that is labled as breeders, bigots, and homophobes.

 

For the record, I never once said the note written by the unknown cacher was appropriate.

[+GallifreyStands]

 

It is the same 1st amendment flaunted by homosexuals who produce and sell sex toys in the shape of the cross of calvary and of Jesus to express their disdain for Christianity (which I find highly offensive ) yet i've never tried to suppress their right to sell their wares.

 

 

WOAH! never seen this....I pray I never do.....disgusting

Edited September 21, 2008 by nycdancerboi