Traditional or not?

[+BigFurryMonster]

Say, I put a magnetic cache down a tube. I ask cachers to bring a piece of string with some metal at the end to 'fish out' the cache from its hiding place.

Coords are provided directly. Permission is OK.

 

Would this qualify as a Traditional cache?

[+Bear_Left]

No, I don't think so. If you haven't read the description, you may well not have the required piece of string with you.

 

The test is "If I knew nothing about this cache other than its coordinates, could I find it and make a legitimate log on it?"

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Yes that would be a traditional, but with a raised difficulty rating. It requires special tools, and therefore maybe more than one visit. That's a textbook example of a traditional with a high rating. I have found one like this, but it was a stage in a Multi Cache. It was fun, and a bit of a challenge.

 

Gone Fishin' (Yamar's unusual #4) Link---> http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ef-ebd146ebb957

Edited September 9, 2008 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

No, I don't think so. If you haven't read the description, you may well not have the required piece of string with you.

 

The test is "If I knew nothing about this cache other than its coordinates, could I find it and make a legitimate log on it?"

That's not exactly the test of what makes a cache Traditional. The cache is at the posted coordinates, it has a container and a logbook, there is not a puzzle to solve. This it the definition of a Traditional Cache. A cache up a cliff may not be able to be retreived on the first visit with only the coordinates, but it's still a Traditional.

[+FunnyNose]

Say, I put a magnetic cache down a tube. I ask cachers to bring a piece of string with some metal at the end to 'fish out' the cache from its hiding place.

Coords are provided directly. Permission is OK.

 

Would this qualify as a Traditional cache?

 

If the cache is at the posted coordinates it is a traditional.

[+Star*Hopper]

Say, I put a magnetic cache down a tube. I ask cachers to bring a piece of string with some metal at the end to 'fish out' the cache from its hiding place.

Coords are provided directly. Permission is OK.

 

Would this qualify as a Traditional cache?

 

If the cache is at the posted coordinates it is a traditional.

 

Mmmmmmmm.....I don' think so, Maurice. At least, not according to the THE Guidelines:

Guidelines > Cache Types > Traditional Caches

This is the original cache type consisting of (at a bare minimum) a container and a logbook. ... The coordinates listed on the traditional cache page are the exact location of the cache. ... Caches that require the geocacher to do something beyond finding the container and signing the logbook generally do not qualify as traditional caches.

 

But OTOH I've seen several that push and/or punch holes in that envelope.....so I'd say it was purt' much up to the interpretation of the reviewer d'jour.

~*

[+Snoogans]

Say, I put a magnetic cache down a tube. I ask cachers to bring a piece of string with some metal at the end to 'fish out' the cache from its hiding place.

Coords are provided directly. Permission is OK.

 

Would this qualify as a Traditional cache?

 

If the cache is at the posted coordinates it is a traditional.

 

Mmmmmmmm.....I don' think so, Maurice. At least, not according to the THE Guidelines:

Guidelines > Cache Types > Traditional Caches

This is the original cache type consisting of (at a bare minimum) a container and a logbook. ... The coordinates listed on the traditional cache page are the exact location of the cache. ... Caches that require the geocacher to do something beyond finding the container and signing the logbook generally do not qualify as traditional caches.

 

But OTOH I've seen several that push and/or punch holes in that envelope.....so I'd say it was purt' much up to the interpretation of the reviewer d'jour.

~*

 

Ummmm, I think you're over thinkin' this part: "do something beyond finding the container"

 

Using a tool is NOT beyond anything. It's a Traditional with 5 star difficulty. Ummm, IMO.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Say, I put a magnetic cache down a tube. I ask cachers to bring a piece of string with some metal at the end to 'fish out' the cache from its hiding place.

Coords are provided directly. Permission is OK.

 

Would this qualify as a Traditional cache?

 

If the cache is at the posted coordinates it is a traditional.

 

Mmmmmmmm.....I don' think so, Maurice. At least, not according to the THE Guidelines:

Guidelines > Cache Types > Traditional Caches

This is the original cache type consisting of (at a bare minimum) a container and a logbook. ... The coordinates listed on the traditional cache page are the exact location of the cache. ... Caches that require the geocacher to do something beyond finding the container and signing the logbook generally do not qualify as traditional caches.

 

But OTOH I've seen several that push and/or punch holes in that envelope.....so I'd say it was purt' much up to the interpretation of the reviewer d'jour.

~*

 

Since submitting a cache listing does not require a description of how it is hidden, unless the cache listing describes what may be needed to retrieve the cache the reviewer may never know that the cache pushes the envelope and thus it would get published according to the cache owners interpretation.

 

There was a cache recently discussed in another thread which is listed as a multi but from reading the logs apparently requires solving a sudoku puzzle to find the first stage. Every other cache that I have seen which requires solving a sudoku puzzle is published as an "unknown/puzzle" cache.

[+whistler & co.]

It's no different than a traditional cache that is in a tunnel or hign up in a tree or on the face of a cliff. Yes, you may need certain equipment to access the cache (flashlight, rope, rappeling gear), but the cache is at the posted coords, it consists of a single container, and there are no additional logging requirements or puzzles to solve, just an additonal bit of equipment or ingenuity needed to reach the container. Heck, we sometimes need "special equipment" to reach a regular run-of-the-mill cache that happens to be way inside a log or stuck up inside a hollow tree or far beneath an overhanging rock...a big, long stick!

[+palmetto]

It's a traditional. As others have said; a traditional cache is at the posted coordinates, and has no additional logging requirements (post online log as a poem, required picture etc). The difficulty, including tool use, of getting a signature on the log is part of either the difficulty or, in some cases, the terrain.

[+briansnat]

If the cache is at the posted coordinates it is a traditional.

 

Not necessarily. For example caches with additional logging requirements are listed as puzzles. So would a cache at the posted coordinates with a lock that you need to to solve some puzzle or other task to obtain the combination. Those are just two instances of a cache at the posted coords that shouldn't be listed as a traditional. I'm sure there are others.

 

I think the cache as the OP described would be a traditional.

[+StarBrand]

A Container with the logbook(sheet) at the posted coordinates - is a tradtional.

[Skippermark]

The OP's question is answered, but in regards to the guideline stating, "do something beyond finding the container and signing the logbook generally do not qualify as traditional caches" is something like an additional logging requirement or having to solve a puzzle before going there.

 

As noted by others, I'd rate it a 5 difficulty since finders need to provide something to get it.

[+tozainamboku]

I objected at the time to the change in the requirements calling for caches with additional logging requirements to be listed as unknown types because it would lead to guidelines creep like this where anything that required you to read the cache page to know what to bring, or where to park, or what time to hunt would be considered by some an addition requirement. Those who supported the change said the difference was with ALR is that a person could find a cache and sign the physical log only to have their log deleted for not completing the ALR while caches requiring a TOTT or that need to be done at certain times meant that a finder was not likely to find the cache and if they did find it using some alternative method it would still be a find.

 

We did have a cache like the OP is proposing where some people found you could lift the pole out of the ground and retrieve the cache that way. The cache owner archived the cache are re-hid it as an unknown type with the ALR that you had to retrieve the cache using the fishing line method.

[+Quiggle]

A Container with the logbook(sheet) at the posted coordinates - is a tradtional.

Not necessarily. See Brian's examples right above your post.

[+StarBrand]

A Container with the logbook(sheet) at the posted coordinates - is a tradtional.

Not necessarily. See Brian's examples right above your post.

Well ok - if you go and get all technical on me - it also shouldn't have any Addtional Logging Requirements (ALR) and no need to solve anything or get info from elsewhere to open the container etc....

 

[+Quiggle]

The solution wasn't really as simple as you made it out to be.

It was before, but not since the last guidelines revision.

 

[+Prime Suspect]

No, I don't think so. If you haven't read the description, you may well not have the required piece of string with you.

 

The test is "If I knew nothing about this cache other than its coordinates, could I find it and make a legitimate log on it?"

That's not exactly the test of what makes a cache Traditional. The cache is at the posted coordinates, it has a container and a logbook, there is not a puzzle to solve. This it the definition of a Traditional Cache. A cache up a cliff may not be able to be retreived on the first visit with only the coordinates, but it's still a Traditional.

If additional info from the page is required to find and log the cache, it's not a Traditional. This is similar to a cache that's locked, and the combination code is listed on the cache page. It can't be completed with just the coordinates, so it's not a Traditional.

[+Silfron Mandotheneset]

No, I don't think so. If you haven't read the description, you may well not have the required piece of string with you.

 

The test is "If I knew nothing about this cache other than its coordinates, could I find it and make a legitimate log on it?"

That's not exactly the test of what makes a cache Traditional. The cache is at the posted coordinates, it has a container and a logbook, there is not a puzzle to solve. This it the definition of a Traditional Cache. A cache up a cliff may not be able to be retreived on the first visit with only the coordinates, but it's still a Traditional.

If additional info from the page is required to find and log the cache, it's not a Traditional. This is similar to a cache that's locked, and the combination code is listed on the cache page. It can't be completed with just the coordinates, so it's not a Traditional.

 

Not true, you COULD find this cache with just the coordinates. The fact that you would have to go to the hardware store to get some string and a paperclip doesn't matter. Same with traditional caches that require a ladder to get to. You can get to the tree and see the cache in it with just the coords. You have to fetch a ladder to get it down, but it's still traditional. Reading the description that says "Bring a 9ft ladder" would make this a lot easier, but no less traditional.

[+BlueDeuce]

ARR - Additional Retrieval Requirements

 

Personally, if you don't read the cache page then you are probably willing to roll the dice on what you find and how to retrieve.

 

 

edit: changed term from must be to are probably.

Edited September 9, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+Team GPSaxophone]

No, I don't think so. If you haven't read the description, you may well not have the required piece of string with you.

 

The test is "If I knew nothing about this cache other than its coordinates, could I find it and make a legitimate log on it?"

That's not exactly the test of what makes a cache Traditional. The cache is at the posted coordinates, it has a container and a logbook, there is not a puzzle to solve. This it the definition of a Traditional Cache. A cache up a cliff may not be able to be retreived on the first visit with only the coordinates, but it's still a Traditional.

If additional info from the page is required to find and log the cache, it's not a Traditional. This is similar to a cache that's locked, and the combination code is listed on the cache page. It can't be completed with just the coordinates, so it's not a Traditional.

 

Not true, you COULD find this cache with just the coordinates. The fact that you would have to go to the hardware store to get some string and a paperclip doesn't matter. Same with traditional caches that require a ladder to get to. You can get to the tree and see the cache in it with just the coords. You have to fetch a ladder to get it down, but it's still traditional. Reading the description that says "Bring a 9ft ladder" would make this a lot easier, but no less traditional.

That would be "special equipment" as most cachers don't carry around ladders. Rate it with 5 stars so the cacher has to read the page and it's still a traditional.

[+Star*Hopper]

Re the OP....

Well, the Distinguished Panel has certainly made one thing crystal clear: WE DON'T KNOW!!!

 

Side, but related question.

I have a pretty good comprehension of the spoken & written English language. But, after having been at this for about a year, there's one thing that has eluded my senses of reasoning & understanding. Namely, how is it that an ALR (Additional Logging Requirement) puts a cache in the realm of a 'Puzzle'?

I mean (e.g.), I have a cache where you're asked to record your mileage driving from point A to point B. I'm told that the ALR makes it a Puzzle.

PUZZLE: (n)

1- Something, such as a game, toy, or problem, that requires ingenuity and often persistence in solving or assembling.

2- Something that baffles or confuses.

3- The condition of being perplexed; bewilderment.

~American Heritage Dictionary

 

Say what?!?

~*

[+busterbabes]

Well..it doesn't fall in the category of multi, unknown/puzzle (this form of cache often involves complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve in order to determine the coordinates. ), letterbox, or event.....

I would call it a traditional and up the difficulty.

Just my 2 cents worth....

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Needing specialized equipment to retrieve the cache, as others have posted, does NOT preclude it from being a traditional.

 

Scuba caches, those requiring a boat, those requiring the finder to climb a tree, etc. can all be traditionals as long as they would otherwise qualify as traditionals.

 

As to how an ALR makes the cache a Puzzle cache, it doesn't. An ALR makes the cache a Mystery cache (ie NOT a traditional) as stated in the listing guidelines/requirements.

 

Caches with mandatory requirements in addition to signing the logbook should be listed as mystery caches. Examples include sending the cache owner a verification codeword found inside the logbook, performing some task at the cache location and taking a photograph, or writing the online log in a format or with content that satisfies the cache requirements. The mystery cache designation assists finders in identifying that something extra is required in order to log a find.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Motorcycle_Mama

[CoyoteRed]

Namely, how is it that an ALR (Additional Logging Requirement) puts a cache in the realm of a 'Puzzle'?

It's not a puzzle though it can be. It's put in the unknown/mystery/puzzle category because it doesn't fit in traditional. An ALR is not in the traditional category because you have to do something in addition to signing the log to be able to log it online. You're creating additional barriers to logging the cache after it is found.

 

Also, an ALR can be a traditional, it's just not listed as a traditional. You can put any cache in the unknown category on a whim, just some are required to be there.

 

With a traditional the barriers are in front of finding the cache--and retrieving, sign in, and replacing it--like a mountain, up a tree, camo, etc.

 

I can see your confusion as I just read posts by a few reviewers and they can't agree on what a traditional is. That's pretty sad.

 

The OP's example is a traditional. The fact you need extra gear only makes the difficulty different. Otherwise, you could never have a 5/5 traditional.

[+Star*Hopper]

Thanx guyz....your respective explanations clears it up for me considerably. There seems to be an implied (Guideline) - "for lack of a better/more specific category to put a non-traditional in".

 

"I can see your confusion as I just read posts by a few reviewers and they can't agree on what a traditional is. That's pretty sad."

 

Kudos. That was EXACTLY the gist of what I was suggesting. AND why I mentioned previously, "...dependant on Reviewer D'Jour". With all the 'experience' Groundspeak's amassed over the years, and the considerable discussion of categories & adjustments to the Guidelines that have evolved therefrom, it is indeed sad that they are still so non-specific that even those vested with the overseeing of those Guidelines cannot uniformly interpret them. So consider where that leaves laymen & noobs alike!

My call is that Groundspeak needs to refine the Cache Categories & their guidelines for assignment. And ditto for the container size categories while they're at it!

 

Re confusion:

I have been going round-&-round (for nearly 6 months) with a reviewer over the categorization of one cache (3 actually) which are related, but I want to make stand-alones of each. He insists it's a multi, (and the details are complex & I won't even TRY to lay out my argument here). The thing is, the 3 caches are followed in order to play a navigation game I created....making it a contest, or 'race' if you will. The object is to see who can get from point 1 to point 3 in the least driven miles. I asked for the ("your") mileage to be logged at point 3, basically so's we can 'keep score'. It's not REQUIRED you play the game....you're perfectly free to find any one or all three caches involved....and you don't HAVE to record your mileage.

 

There's more details, but that's the gist of it. I don't want it to be a multi; he refuses to publish it otherwise. In the latest iteration, I yielded and made it a puzzle (3 puzzles)....he still insists it's a multi, and cites specific reasons it's a multi. Funny (not really) thing is ....EVERY rule he cites is shown in the Guidelines as reasons for it to be a Mystery/Puzzle cache!!

 

BUT.......that's another subject for another day. Thanx for the direction on ALR's.

~*

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

No, I don't think so. If you haven't read the description, you may well not have the required piece of string with you.

 

The test is "If I knew nothing about this cache other than its coordinates, could I find it and make a legitimate log on it?"

That's not exactly the test of what makes a cache Traditional. The cache is at the posted coordinates, it has a container and a logbook, there is not a puzzle to solve. This it the definition of a Traditional Cache. A cache up a cliff may not be able to be retreived on the first visit with only the coordinates, but it's still a Traditional.

If additional info from the page is required to find and log the cache, it's not a Traditional. This is similar to a cache that's locked, and the combination code is listed on the cache page. It can't be completed with just the coordinates, so it's not a Traditional.

By that standard.....

 

Any Cache which REQUIRES you to bring your own pen would not be a Traditional Cache.

 

The Cache as described is nothing more than a very difficult Traditional Cache. Be prepared for a lot of DNF logs.

[LordEd]

I have a similar cache (GC148JW). As far as I'm concerned, its a traditional cache with a high difficulty. However, I've intentionally been a bit vague on the wording to make people think (although i had to make more hints for some people).

 

If you tell the cachers what to bring and what to do with it, then the only real difficulty is reading. I think we're supposed to read the cache pages before attempting (ie, 'don't enter the fence' or other instructions).

[+Star*Hopper]

Oh -- one other point I forgot to cover/mention.

 

In re the "...require the geocacher to do something beyond finding the container and signing the logbook..." (ie, in not qualifying as a 'Traditional')....

 

I'd take that "something beyond" to mean, e.g., retrieval. Literally, finding a cache is one thing; logging is 'the' other.....but retrieval can & often is quite another thing entirely! And to me, clearly beyond merely (1)-finding & (2)-logging.

 

NOT saying that's how it ought to be....but that's what "the words" do say.

 

~*

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I think 'traditional' is meant simply to distinguish your basic (dare I say traditional?) container with a log.

 

It's not a Puzzle, it's not a Virtual, it's not a magnetic sign you have to peel off and sign on the back, it's a container with a log that, given only the coordinates, a geocacher should be able to find and log.

Edited September 10, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[knowschad]

I'll bet BigFurryMonster is glad to have posed that question here! This is the place to come for answers to all of your geocaching questions!

 

[+Guinness70]

I think 'traditional' is meant simply to distinguish your basic (dare I say traditional?) container with a log.

 

It's not a Puzzle, it's not a Virtual, it's not a magnetic sign you have to peel off and sign on the back, it's a container with a log that, given only the coordinates, a geocacher should be able to find and log.

 

Ild prefer to see this as a mistery cache... sure you can find it at the coordinates but you cant get to it with just your hands.

 

if im standing there looking down the tube after spending time and money getting there and finding it

ild get to it by all means : if ripping out the tube works, ill do that or pour water in it till it floats

if ild happen to have forgotten my extendable pointer with exchangeable tip : can take the mirror or strong magnet.

 

wrap some cord (with the magnet) around the outside of the tube, push it all down.

 

if this is a traditional we'll end up having to carry a 20kg toolbox with all sorts of cache retrieval equipment if you go out on an unprepared traditional hunt.

 

AND REMOVE THE MAGNET FROM THE BOX, put the metal plate on it!

some will have a magnet on a stick and if its the same polarity its not gonna work!

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guinness70

[+BigFurryMonster]

I'll bet BigFurryMonster is glad to have posed that question here! This is the place to come for answers to all of your geocaching questions!

 

Indeed! It's good to see the discussion, and interesting to watch the jury doesn't always agree.

 

I'm going to try and define the rule for a cache to be qualified as Traditional:

 

A cache may be classified as a Traditional cache when all of these requirements are met:

• its coordinates are provided at the top of the cache page.
  
• no information besides the directly available information on the cache page is needed to find and log the cache.
  
• no additional logging requirements are imposed.
  

Note this does not say anything about needed equipment; as long as it is clear from the cache page what is needed, and it meets the other requirements, it can be a traditional.

 

Am I close?

 

Oh, and check out this mystery cache of mine:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC1BBV6

 

(drop me a personal note if you think you have solved it)

[+Moose Mob]

If this were to show up in my queue, I could be talked into either type. However if I were to pick one, I would pick Mystery, just because it is "different" and the cacher would not be useing "traditional" methods to seek and recover the container.

[+Prime Suspect]

If additional info from the page is required to find and log the cache, it's not a Traditional. This is similar to a cache that's locked, and the combination code is listed on the cache page. It can't be completed with just the coordinates, so it's not a Traditional.

By that standard.....

 

Any Cache which REQUIRES you to bring your own pen would not be a Traditional Cache.

No, if you really want to get technical, that would not make it a puzzle/mystery, it would make it a 5-star terrain, since it's required equipment. Knowledge of a combination is not equipment, so they're hardly the same thing.

 

(And since a writing implement isn't considered special equipment, a BYOP situation alone doesn't actually warrant a 5-star terrain rating.)

Edited September 10, 2008 by Prime Suspect

[Motorcycle_Mama]

You could always use dirt, blood, grass, or some other colored/pigmented substance to sign the log.

 

Now, if the cache owner REQUIRES that you sign ONLY with a pen that you bring with you, then that would be an ALR.

[+Wild Thing 73]

Just a great cache idea...I was able to find and log a cache in a large PVC pipe that had a bucket attached that you must fill from a stream and when the PVC pipe was full the cache floated to the top....after signing the log and closing the container, you had to open a petcock drain at the bottom to let the water out...It was a fun cache which I think everyone enjoyed. I think I will try an off shoot of your Idea...Thanks and happy caching...Just keep thinking that way....

[CoyoteRed]

if this is a traditional we'll end up having to carry a 20kg toolbox with all sorts of cache retrieval equipment if you go out on an unprepared traditional hunt.

 

Or make more than one trip.

 

Difficulty rating:

* Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.

** Average. The average cache hunter would be able to find this in less than 30 minutes of hunting.

*** Challenging. An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon.

**** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

***** Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

 

Terrain rating:

* Handicapped accessible. (Terrain is likely to be paved, is relatively flat, and less than a 1/2 mile hike is required.)

** Suitable for small children. (Terrain is generally along marked trails, there are no steep elevation changes or heavy overgrowth. Less than a 2 mile hike required.)

*** Not suitable for small children. (The average adult or older child should be OK depending on physical condition. Terrain is likely off-trail. May have one or more of the following: some overgrowth, some steep elevation changes, or more than a 2 mile hike.)

**** Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. (Terrain is probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or more than a 10 mile hike. May require an overnight stay.)

***** Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience, (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

Additionally, if the required equipment, which in this case is not really out of the ordinary, is listed on the cache page then I wouldn't list it as a 4 star. If you had to figure it out, then sure 4 stars.

 

Either way, it's still a traditional.

[CoyoteRed]

If this were to show up in my queue, I could be talked into either type. However if I were to pick one, I would pick Mystery, just because it is "different" and the cacher would not be useing "traditional" methods to seek and recover the container.

There's lots of cache that don't use a "traditional" method of finding. Maybe the word you're looking for is "classic." "Traditional" only means the listed coordinates are at the cache and you don't need to go anywhere else of the placer's choosing in order to complete the cache. "Classic" is more of the "go to the listed coordinates, find the cache, sign the log, put it back" type of cache.

[+StarBrand]

I suppose the real question (best answred by the OP) is do you absolutely need this string and magnet or could a cacher (for instance) grab a long skinny stick with a piece of sticky duck tape on the end and grab it?? Or a belt with an improvised hook?

 

If the string and magnet are requirments - then maybe it is NOT tradtional - if any number of ingenious methods could be used to get the cache then no info from the cache page could truely said to be a "requirement".

 

Just sayin......

[+Star*Hopper]

"...if this is a traditional we'll end up having to carry a 20kg toolbox with all sorts of cache retrieval equipment..."

 

Gotta say, this DID rouse my curiosity. How in heck did you manage to get yours down to only 20kg?!? Only thing I can think of is....you're sadly underequipped, & still building?

 

~*

[+BigFurryMonster]

I suppose the real question (best answred by the OP) is do you absolutely need this string and magnet or could a cacher (for instance) grab a long skinny stick with a piece of sticky duck tape on the end and grab it?? Or a belt with an improvised hook?

 

To be fair, I do not know yet - it depends on the final design on my cache, I guess. I'll do my best to have only the metal solution work.

 

I'm not sure if the test you describe would really determine whether it is a traditional or not, however.

[CoyoteRed]

If the string and magnet are requirments - then maybe it is NOT tradtional - if any number of ingenious methods could be used to get the cache then no info from the cache page could truely said to be a "requirement".

I don't understand. Requirements for retrieving a cache has never been part of the definition of traditional. It has been a part of the rating. Why should upping the rating make it not a traditional?

 

I don't get it.

 

It's kind of like folks wanting micros to be a type. Micro is a size, not a type.

[CoyoteRed]

Note this does not say anything about needed equipment; as long as it is clear from the cache page what is needed, and it meets the other requirements, it can be a traditional.

 

Am I close?

Yes.

 

However, this does not preclude you from having a puzzle to solve to get in the cache or have extra gear to get to the cache. It also doesn't say you have to be able to complete the cache in one trip.

 

Telling folks the equipment needed is a courtesy, not a requirement. You can create a cache where one needs climbing gear and not say anything about it on the cache page. You'd probably tick a few folks off after they hiked 5 miles only to discover they have to turn around and do it again. It's a courtesy, not a requirement.

 

BTW, listing the cache as an ? would not be wrong, either. That category is for any cache type if you don't want to say what type it is. It can be a traditional or a multi and you'd still not be wrong to list it as an Unknown/Puzzle/Mystery.

Edited September 11, 2008 by CoyoteRed

[+StarBrand]

If the string and magnet are requirments - then maybe it is NOT tradtional - if any number of ingenious methods could be used to get the cache then no info from the cache page could truely said to be a "requirement".

I don't understand. Requirements for retrieving a cache has never been part of the definition of traditional. It has been a part of the rating. Why should upping the rating make it not a traditional?

 

I don't get it.

 

It's kind of like folks wanting micros to be a type. Micro is a size, not a type.

I was speaking directly to this comment by a reviewer above....

 

If this were to show up in my queue, I could be talked into either type. However if I were to pick one, I would pick Mystery, just because it is "different" and the cacher would not be useing "traditional" methods to seek and recover the container.

[CoyoteRed]

I was speaking directly to this comment by a reviewer above....

If this were to show up in my queue, I could be talked into either type. However if I were to pick one, I would pick Mystery, just because it is "different" and the cacher would not be useing "traditional" methods to seek and recover the container.

Yeah, I commented on that one, too.

[+flask]

if the combination to the lock is on the cache page, it's traditional instead of a puzzle.

 

all the information you need is available on the cache page, just for the looking.

 

HIDING the combination on the cache page is a puzzle. putting it out in the open just means you have to read the cache page, which doesn't make it a puzzle.

[+Prime Suspect]

if the combination to the lock is on the cache page, it's traditional instead of a puzzle.

 

all the information you need is available on the cache page, just for the looking.

 

HIDING the combination on the cache page is a puzzle. putting it out in the open just means you have to read the cache page, which doesn't make it a puzzle.

Uhm... not so much.

 

The Reader's digest version of the thread linked above:

 

I would like to suggest a new field of information about each cache that the cache owner has the ability to set. This field would be "can be found with only the coordinate information". That is, there are no offsets that have to be computed, no projecting waypoints, no puzzles to solve and no other information needed in order to find the cache. Go to the coordinates, look around, and find the cache.

The way I see it, any cache classified as a "traditional cache" should be findable with just the coordinates. If there is a puzzle to complete, then it should be classified as a mystery/unknown cache. If there are additional stages, then it should be classified as a multicache.

I agree with the Leprechauns. Traditional caches are called traditional because you *should* be able to find them with only the coordinates. If they are miscategorized you should email the cache owner to change it.

 

Let me repeat Jeremy's quote, "Traditional caches are called traditional because you *should* be able to find them with only the coordinates."

 

That means if you need a lock combination, etc., it's not a Traditional.

[CoyoteRed]

if the combination to the lock is on the cache page, it's traditional instead of a puzzle.

 

all the information you need is available on the cache page, just for the looking.

 

HIDING the combination on the cache page is a puzzle. putting it out in the open just means you have to read the cache page, which doesn't make it a puzzle.

Uhm... not so much.

 

The Reader's digest version of the thread linked above:

 

I would like to suggest a new field of information about each cache that the cache owner has the ability to set. This field would be "can be found with only the coordinate information". That is, there are no offsets that have to be computed, no projecting waypoints, no puzzles to solve and no other information needed in order to find the cache. Go to the coordinates, look around, and find the cache.

The way I see it, any cache classified as a "traditional cache" should be findable with just the coordinates. If there is a puzzle to complete, then it should be classified as a mystery/unknown cache. If there are additional stages, then it should be classified as a multicache.

I agree with the Leprechauns. Traditional caches are called traditional because you *should* be able to find them with only the coordinates. If they are miscategorized you should email the cache owner to change it.

 

Let me repeat Jeremy's quote, "Traditional caches are called traditional because you *should* be able to find them with only the coordinates."

 

That means if you need a lock combination, etc., it's not a Traditional.

I'm not following your logic. They were talking about findable without any additional information. In other words, "Going Commando."

 

The OP's cache is findable without anything more that coordinates. "Retrievable" is a different story.

 

Consider a cache placed here. The coords are directly on top of that cache. The cache page is blank. It's rated a 5/5. Size is regular. You find locate the cache within seconds of coming within 80'.

 

What you locate is an ammo can sitting on top of 20' concrete piling about 50' out from the bridge you're standing on.

 

Traditional or puzzle?

[+Prime Suspect]

I'm not following your logic. They were talking about findable without any additional information. In other words, "Going Commando."

 

The OP's cache is findable without anything more that coordinates. "Retrievable" is a different story.

 

Consider a cache placed here. The coords are directly on top of that cache. The cache page is blank. It's rated a 5/5. Size is regular. You find locate the cache within seconds of coming within 80'.

 

What you locate is an ammo can sitting on top of 20' concrete piling about 50' out from the bridge you're standing on.

 

Traditional or puzzle?

I guess you didn't read the entire message. It was in response to the contention that a locked cache with the combination only available on the cache page would be a Traditional.