New Cache Idea

[Motorcycle_Mama]

It may not be illegal to cross the street, but it's probably not legal in most jurisdictions to be doing anything on or in the median itself.

[+TrailGators]

It's a bad idea. What is fun about worrying about getting hit by a car?

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

I love Frogger (the video game.....and I'm old enough to have played it at the arcade ), and given examples like some Vinny and Sue caches, I can understand your defense, but my fear is a cache like this gives caching a bad eye. Someone gets run over by a car doing this, even if because they were "stupid" enough not to go at night (though I don't think that's safe either....the lone "speeding" car in the dark that doesn't see you, etc.), the press will say how stupid and reckless this game is and ask why it's not banned by lawmakers.

 

The difference between this and a 5-star cache that requires rock climbing is that in theory if you are fit enough, have the right skills, equipment and training, the rock climbing is relatively "safe". But no one can say they are "skilled" at crossing a freeway.

 

I can't see the admins accepting this one.

[+flask]

bryan, i'm going to try to be objective here. it's going to be a mixed bag, so buckle up.

 

first, i think you've gone off the deep end. crazy i know from. you're sounding less rational than normal for you. please take that into account when making decisions.

 

second, i am entirely in favor of dangerous caches provided they are properly rated. nobody needs to hunt every cache and as long as people are properly advised of the risks, it's up to them. i race mountain bikes. it's what we call a "risk assumed sport". we are aware of the dangers before we ride. we understand that it is up to us to properly scout our trails and make good decisions based on conditions and our ability.

 

tonight at the venue we saw a teeny little girl riding a sweet singlespeed with narrow tires. her dad is a retired cyclist (world cup mountain biking, multiple tours de france). she's rugged enough and well-informed enough to ride with the big boys and girls.

 

there's no reason not to have geocaches with attenuated risks.

 

third, the chances that this cache will receive "adequate permission" are pretty slim. i think that without express permission for this one you're skating thin ice.

 

point the fourth: it sounds like this cache represents some risk to uninvolved motorists, which is i think the most serious concern. if someone fit enough or crazy enough or stupid enough attempts this cache and judges wrong, there is too much potential for accidents involving people who are NOT willingly taking on the risk.

 

a stupid person who should not seek the cache doing so anyway is one thing, but placing innocent passers-by in a situation where they could run over the stupid person or get involved in an accident trying to avoid the stupid person isn't OK. passing motorists have not been advised of the risk and do not have the opportunity to accept or reject that risk.

 

so simply on the force of that point, i'd have to say no, it's not a good idea.

[+Codfish116]

To answer your original question, It has been done: Frogger in Fargo. They rated it a 2/2.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Codfish116

[+mtn-man]

It's illegal to cross the interstate on foot. It's not illegal to cross a city street.

It is legal to cross the street at a crosswalk, yes. In any other area, you are jaywalking. That is against the law.

 

It is legal to *cross* the street, yes. It is not legal to stop in the middle of it. You are saying that it is legal to stop and search for a geocache in the middle of a city street? Want to point me to that law?

 

I honestly don't understand how anyone in their right mind would consider this.

[Mag Magician]

OK, I have spent the last 15 minutes reading this thread, laughing my butt off with every subsequent post.

 

To answer the original question, I would not rate this cache, nor would I ever in my wildest dreams think about finding it. IMHO, it is a totally irresponsible idea. This is not a slam at the OP, nor an insult to your intelligence. It is an honest opinion about a cache that would hit my ignore list the second it was published.

[+flask]

OK, I have spent the last 15 minutes reading this thread, laughing my butt off with every subsequent post.

 

 

once you have laughed your butt off, you cannot do it again. it's gone.

[+Okiebryan]

It's illegal to cross the interstate on foot. It's not illegal to cross a city street.

It is legal to *cross* the street, yes. It is not legal to stop in the middle of it. You are saying that it is legal to stop and search for a geocache in the middle of a city street? Want to point me to that law?

 

We don't have laws that tell you what you "can" do. Laws, by nature, restrict behavior. In the absence of a law prohibiting some behavior, it is expressly permitted. It's the fundamental tenet on which our system of law is based.

 

There is no law in this state to my knowledge that prohibits stopping in the median of a city street.

 

Care to point me to a law that says that Geocaching is legal? Of course you can't. Until and unless it is prohibited by statue, it's expressly permitted.

 

Your worst offense possible offense here would be jaywalking. Of course, there's a crosswalk less than .25mi away, I suppose one could even get the cache without risking committing such a heinous crime as jaywalking!

Edited July 31, 2008 by Okiebryan

[+Michael]

I think mtn-man has said it well. Get verifiable permission then submit it to your reviewer. Without that its not going to happen.

[+Harry Dolphin]

After due consideration, and ignoring most of the poopie-snouted responses...

I have found similar caches. I think that Park Avenue in New York would be similar. There is a central park area beween the north and south bound lanes. There is a pedestrian crossing (which seems to be timed to catch all pedestrians on the center isle.) Frogger might be a good name for this series of caches! I'm sure that it has been done elsewhere. If it were a narrow Jersey barrier, then I would not approve. If it's an area safe for pedestrians, then I would have no problem. (OOH! I want to put out a Frogger cache like this!) What highways have I walked across at pedestrian crossings? Rte 1&9, Tonnelle Avenue. FDR Drive. Palisades Interstate Parkway. You try being an AT hiker and crossing the Taconic Parkway! That's tougher than climbing both West Mountain and Bear Mountain! Pedestrian traffic is no longer permitted across the Bear Mountain Bridge.

What stupid things have I done? (Note that none of the above qualify as stupid.) Okay. I have run across the Henry Hudson Parkway five or seven times... Hey! I even got reported to the poilce for walking along a public street in Summit, New Jersey! No sidewalk, but it is a public street. (I did mention to the police that the motorist who reported us should have been tested for DUI due to his bizarre driving. Dang. It is a public street. I have every right to be walking along it!)

If it's a pedestrian crossing, and if it doesn't require your butt to be hanging out into traffic, I see no problem with it.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Well, here's some City Code sections from a city near here.

 

Sec. 32-9. Obstructing the street and rights-of-way.

Except as otherwise provided by this Code or by other city regulation, it shall be unlawful for any person to leave, or cause to be left, any box, barrel, trash or storage container, or other obstruction in any portion of the street or right-of-way without first obtaining a permit from the city engineer

 

Sec. 22-706. Walking on roadways.

Pedestrians shall not use the highways or streets, other than the sidewalk thereof, for travel, except when necessary to do so because of the absence of sidewalks, reasonably suitable and passable for their use, in which case, if they walk upon the hard surface, or the main traveled portion of the roadway, they shall keep to the extreme left side or edge thereof, or where the shoulders of the highway are of sufficient width to permit, they may walk on either shoulder thereof.

 

Sec. 22-708. Playing on streets, highways, sidewalks; use of roller skates, toys, or other devices on wheels or runners.

(a) No person shall play on a highway or street, other that upon the sidewalks thereof, within the city. No person shall use on a highway or street where play is prohibited on roller skates, toys or other devices on wheels or runners, except bicycles, mopeds, motorized push scooters and motorcycles.

[+MountainRacer]

We don't have laws that tell you what you "can" do. Laws, by nature, restrict behavior. In the absence of a law prohibiting some behavior, it is expressly permitted. It's the fundamental tenet on which our system of law is based.

 

There is no law in this state to my knowledge that prohibits stopping in the median of a city street.

I don't know about your state, but here in New Jersey we have an infraction called 'obstruction of roadway'. It's a versatile one; it can be applied for parking too far away from the curb, stopping your car in traffic when there's nothing mechanically wrong with it, driving too slowly on the highway, failing to yield to car traffic when riding a bicycle on the road, and, yes, walking along the highway, among other situations. You'd want to watch out for something like that with your cache.

 

I remembered something, though, as I ruminated on this issue. At a certain crosswalk across a highway in my town, there is a sidewalk block in the median especially for pedestrians, beside which stands a signal post. On this post is a 'let me cross' button that tells the traffic lights there is someone waiting. From this, one could reasonably deduce that pedestrians would be permitted to stop there, because slow walkers might get caught there as the lights changed and need to press the button. In that situation, I don't think a cache nearby would be too much of a stretch.

[+mtn-man]

There is no law in this state to my knowledge that prohibits stopping in the median of a city street.

There were no laws against hiding caches in cemeteries until they became a problem. Once someone is injured and/or killed by a cache placement of this nature, there will be a law specific to geocaching. There will also be a huge black-eye for geocaching. Remember all of those cacher's pictures they paraded out in South Carolina? You and your children should be prepared to be on the TV news and the Internet news sources with this one. If you are responsible for the death of a cacher and/or an innocent motorist, you will be.

 

As a reminder to you, the guidelines state:

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

Since the city owns the street, you assure us that you have adequate permission from the city to hide your cache in the selected location. I would love to be a fly on the wall when you ask the city manager. I would pay money to hear what they say after you leave.

[+Okiebryan]

I think mtn-man has said it well. Get verifiable permission then submit it to your reviewer. Without that its not going to happen.

 

Has Groundspeak taken a position on a cache that has not been hidden, nor submitted for review?

[Mag Magician]

OK, I have spent the last 15 minutes reading this thread, laughing my butt off with every subsequent post.

 

 

once you have laughed your butt off, you cannot do it again. it's gone.

 

I do believe the venerable flask has tried yet another attempt at humour

[+mtn-man]

I think mtn-man has said it well. Get verifiable permission then submit it to your reviewer. Without that its not going to happen.

 

Has Groundspeak taken a position on a cache that has not been hidden, nor submitted for review?

Duh. Example? No caches in airports. Even though there is no cache hidden in JFK airport nor submitted for review, I can tell you none there will be listed.

 

I don't need to go on, do I? Have you actually read the guidelines?

Edited July 31, 2008 by mtn-man

[+geodug]

This is a true story. Last weekend my buddy and I are on our way to find a cache in a local park. I am driving through a parking lot which means I am going 5 to 10 mph.

 

We come upon a flock of pigeons which are pecking at things in the roadway. Like I have hundreds, no thousands of times before, lift my foot off the gas pedal slightly as the car head towards the flock. Hundreds, no thousands of times before the flock gets out of the way by walking or flying out of the way. For the first time in my life I ran over one of the pigeons killing it instantly.

 

I felt huge remorse and told my friend. He opined that I should take a Darwinian perspective. He said that the pigeon that died was obviously not as smart as the rest of the flock and that I had helped the species become stronger by taking a less smart member out of the gene pool. He persuaded me further by saying that pigeons can only grow stronger and stronger over many generations by this process.

 

I was comforted somewhat but that night I had an unbelievable nightmare. In my dream it was several thousand years in the future.

 

One of my descendants is in a courtroom sitting in a defendants block. He is being questioned about running over birds in the local park. As he starts to explain Darwinian principles the judge interrupts. I woke up screaming just before the judge who is a pigeon speaks.

 

And so now to Okiebryan... Bro, don't do it.

[+wimseyguy]

Now that we've recovered from the threadjack, my question remains:

 

Cache hidden in the center median of a divided, multilane, surface street with traffic broken up by stoplights, and average speed 45mph, plenty of parking nearby.... not difficult to find... HOW WOULD YOU RATE THIS HIDE?

 

All local laws apply.

 

I would rate it a 10 on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is will get published immediately.

[+sbell111]

After due consideration, and ignoring most of the poopie-snouted responses...

I have found similar caches. I think that Park Avenue in New York would be similar. There is a central park area beween the north and south bound lanes. There is a pedestrian crossing (which seems to be timed to catch all pedestrians on the center isle.) Frogger might be a good name for this series of caches! I'm sure that it has been done elsewhere. If it were a narrow Jersey barrier, then I would not approve. If it's an area safe for pedestrians, then I would have no problem.

 

... If it's a pedestrian crossing, and if it doesn't require your butt to be hanging out into traffic, I see no problem with it.

Agreed.

 

Given the right street with the right median, this could be a very fun cache that would certainly not violate any laws or the guidelines.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

I was looking on the map for some on the highway caches for next weekend's drive way upstate to my sister, and I found this one:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3d-b7452b399901

 

so it looks like it has been done and approved yet!

[+gof1]

I was looking on the map for some on the highway caches for next weekend's drive way upstate to my sister, and I found this one:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3d-b7452b399901

 

so it looks like it has been done and approved yet!

 

Take another look at that cache. You'll find it isn't what you think.

[+Too Tall John]

I was looking on the map for some on the highway caches for next weekend's drive way upstate to my sister, and I found this one:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3d-b7452b399901

 

so it looks like it has been done and approved yet!

Take another look at that cache. You'll find it isn't what you think.

How about this one?

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

I was looking on the map for some on the highway caches for next weekend's drive way upstate to my sister, and I found this one:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3d-b7452b399901

 

so it looks like it has been done and approved yet!

 

Take another look at that cache. You'll find it isn't what you think.

 

I'll be driving right by it both on the way up Friday and on the way down Monday so maybe perchance we'll get to check it out.......I think looking at a couple of logs (and Google Maps/Earth) I "get it" though......very clever, sorry for the blunder.

Edited August 6, 2008 by HaLiJuSaPa

[+pooter2001]

Please remove pictures of my kids from this internet forum. NOW.

 

OUT OF BOUNDS

 

Besides, that's 100% a red herring. Hiding a dangerous cache (with appropriate disclaimers) has nothing to do with integrity, and who would take their little kids to do a known dangerous cache? Besides, that is their responsibility to decide.

 

I think posting pictures of your kids is a little overboard. I would report that post ASAP. You never know what kind of weirdos troll around and I certainly wouldn't want my kids pictures posted on the internet.

 

As far as your original question: I believe any pedestrian activity is illegal on the highway, so that right there should make it an easy decision.

 

I have to say I agree with Mousekakat on this one. If the pictures are plastered on your profile and also other places online then what makes this forum so out of bounds?

[+pooter2001]

It's illegal to cross the interstate on foot. It's not illegal to cross a city street.

It is legal to *cross* the street, yes. It is not legal to stop in the middle of it. You are saying that it is legal to stop and search for a geocache in the middle of a city street? Want to point me to that law?

 

We don't have laws that tell you what you "can" do. Laws, by nature, restrict behavior. In the absence of a law prohibiting some behavior, it is expressly permitted. It's the fundamental tenet on which our system of law is based.

 

There is no law in this state to my knowledge that prohibits stopping in the median of a city street.

 

Care to point me to a law that says that Geocaching is legal? Of course you can't. Until and unless it is prohibited by statue, it's expressly permitted.

 

Your worst offense possible offense here would be jaywalking. Of course, there's a crosswalk less than .25mi away, I suppose one could even get the cache without risking committing such a heinous crime as jaywalking!

Actually, there is a law in Onslow County, NC that states you CAN beat your wife on the courthouse steps after noon on Sundays as long as you use a stick no thicker than your forearm.

[+gof1]

I was looking on the map for some on the highway caches for next weekend's drive way upstate to my sister, and I found this one:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3d-b7452b399901

 

so it looks like it has been done and approved yet!

Take another look at that cache. You'll find it isn't what you think.

How about this one?

 

Nice. I had an idea what it would be, sorta. My thought was correct, to a point.

[+DrgnTrappr]

Well I'm not going to argue about the validity of such a cache but but the gaurd rail cache by me on a four lane highway is rated 1/1, its not in the median, but on the east bound shoulder, whats the difference. And Yes we all know some "numbers mean everything" cachers would go for a cache like this just to boost there stats.