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zoobum

Point System, Anyone?

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I like the amount of finds that you have under your stats and in your account details, but I was thinking of a

 

point system also. For instance lets say there is a cache that is difficulty 5 and terrain 5, you should get some

 

high amount of points for that cache due to its difficulty/Terrain along with the find...just an incentive! Another

 

idea is there is a cache that no one has found in like a year, you go there and find it, high points again for such

 

a long time with out a find on that cache. And just one more for thought, there is a cache that has three dnf's

 

and no maintenance on the cache you go out and find the cache...yes more points for you cus of the many

 

dnf's. These are just my thoughts to make the fun a little more interesting and challenging.

 

Feed back Please!!!!

zoobum

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

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I think some would enjoy this, but I don't think the overall intent of the website developers is to make this a competitive activity any more than it already is.

 

Adding a points system would do just that, plus amplify the issues like false logging, and the amount of LPC's.

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There's another site that awards points on how often the cache gets found. It's pretty complicated and folks have found a way to game the system. Ultimately it's based on convenience, not really difficulty. Sure it's more "difficult" to drive 100 miles to a remote cache that is rated a 1/1 and thus gain more points than a very popular 5/5 close to a large caching popular, but does that make the experience "better?"

 

There, your points are based on how inconvenient the caches you find are. Here, it's the opposite. The more caches you find, the higher the score so convenient caches are more sought after--and placed.

 

I've yet to see a system even close to perfect, but at least that site is trying.

 

However, both what you're suggesting and what the other site does is more in the "consumption" side of things.

 

This other site also measures your "contribution." You get points based on how well liked your caches are. I'm not thrilled with how that is calculated, but it's a start.

 

The finding of caches is more like an eating contest: how fast can you eat 100 hotdogs? The hiding of caches is more like a cooking contest: how well can you cook a meal? While there is skill in both, but I'm more on the cooking side of things.

Edited by CoyoteRed

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I vote no. As indicated above, there's no way to make it "fair" in everyone's eyes. It would be way, way too subjective. And to me, anyway, I agree with it not being a competition.

 

However, I would encourage anyone to employ their own points system for their own finds and hides, if that helps in their enjoyment of the game.

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

Ditto to both comments!

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Since the current PTB won't ever implement your point system there really isn't any need to point out how bad I think your "idea" is. Can something that has already been suggested in many similar scenarios really be considered an idea any more? I also encourage you to develop your own personal point system. Don't forget bonus points for signing the log while standing on your head. I want no part of any of this. And if you need something more "interesting and challenging", you're in the perfect location to take up alligator wrestling. Imagine the bonus point possibilities in that game.

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I would prefer to see something chance-based, something haphazard, something totally unrelated to effort or seniority or experience – like a lottery, or something along the lines of the five golden tickets randomly hidden in the Wonka bars.

 

Maybe Jeremy could program the website to choose an online log at random once every six months or so, and then mail that person a cookie. Then we'd finally have an official winner to congratulate, and everyone else could stop worrying about scores and comparisons and cheating and how other people cache.

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I would prefer to see something chance-based, something haphazard, something totally unrelated to effort or seniority or experience – like a lottery, or something along the lines of the five golden tickets randomly hidden in the Wonka bars.

 

Maybe Jeremy could program the website to choose an online log at random once every six months or so, and then mail that person a cookie. Then we'd finally have an official winner to congratulate, and everyone else could stop worrying about scores and comparisons and cheating and how other people cache.

 

I think this is a great idea KBI!!!! :sunsure:

 

Mabye some sort of lottery like pulling the slot machines. Maybe like every 200,000 finds on the system, the luckly person that would log a find and "win" a free year premium membership or something. But the number I'm using is just an example, I think if it was a completely random thing that would happen every once in a wile would be kind of neat. Anyone could "win" it. Like the lottery though you've got to play to win. :rolleyes:

 

BUt I think it should be like a free premium membership or somthing like that not just a cookie. Cause I usually flush my cookies once a week. :rolleyes:

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I certainly wouldn't have any interest in a points system of any kind. Just like I have no interest in a cache ratings system of any kind. Or a cacher ratings system of any kind. These things are all completely subjective and really don't add any value to the game for me.

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I like the points system if a great number of points are given to cachers that find "big pile-o-stick"

caches under "big trees" in "big fields".

 

This is the only way that I would give my "sanction" to such a system. :rolleyes::rolleyes::sunsure:

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I understand where the OP is coming from. The same idea occurred to me a long time ago – multiply each smiley by both star ratings, so that a 1/1 cache would be worth one point, a 2/3 would be worth six, and a 5/5 worth twenty-five big ones.

 

But upon thinking about it I quickly realized that (1) not every cache owner uses the same standard when rating caches, (2) making that system official would encourage ‘star inflation’ when rating one’s caches, (3) we didn’t all start caching at the same time, (4) we don’t all have the same access to the same geocaches ... and on and on and on.

 

Every geocache is unique. Every Geocacher is unique. Every smiley is unique.

 

There is no possible way to torture the data which would result in a meaningful comparison between two people’s find counts.

 

I’m not against find counts. I like mine. It’s fun to watch it go up, much the same way it's fun to watch the odometer on my bicycle. And I don’t really mind that so many people want to treat the find count as some kind of score for determining winners and losers. I just prefer to be left out of the competition, and I would be against any changes to the website which would further encourage other cachers to view me as a competitor.

 

I think the OP has a neat idea, and I see what he's after, but I can't see any way to make it work.

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(2) making that system official would encourage 'star inflation' when rating one's caches
I agree. That's exactly what would happen. Many people would start pumping up the ratings to get higher scores and then the ratings would become useless for those that use them for their intended purpose.

 

The "It's Not about the Numbers" website will show you a breakdown of everything you've found by type, size, difficulty rating and terrain rating. It will even show you your average difficulty and terrain ratings. So the OP should go there and multiply all his finds by his average terrain rating to get his score. Then he can find someone else who cares enough to do the same thing. Then they tell each other the results to see who won. By the way, what do you win? :rolleyes:

Edited by TrailGators

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I like the amount of finds that you have under your stats and in your account details, but I was thinking of a

 

point system also. For instance lets say there is a cache that is difficulty 5 and terrain 5, you should get some ...

I think the idea has merit, but would never be implemented in it's present form. I think that it could be tweaked to become palatable for both TPTB and most players. You could change the plan to award each player one point for each find that he/she made.

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I like the amount of finds that you have under your stats and in your account details, but I was thinking of a

point system also. For instance lets say there is a cache that is difficulty 5 and terrain 5, you should get some ...

I think the idea has merit, but would never be implemented in it's present form. I think that it could be tweaked to become palatable for both TPTB and most players. You could change the plan to award each player one point for each find that he/she made.

I think we already have this and it is called the find count. :rolleyes: And yes I like my find count and I do look at other cachers' find counts from time to time. It gives me an unofficial gauge of who I might be dealing with in a given situation. But I don't care if my find count is higher or lower than anyone else's. I also tend to look at a cacher's start date to give me a feel for their overall experience level.

 

I do similar comparisons every day when I am dealing with people when I am working. How old are you (sorry about that), what is your relative experience in your current position, what is your educational background, what is your relative experience or level of knowledge in regards to the topic at hand. My evaluation of each person is unique based upon my interactions with them.

 

My evaluation of each cache and of each cacher is also unique based upon my interactions with them. And I don't hold it against them if they are active in the forums. :rolleyes:

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

I agree. I think it is laughable that so many are so prideful about how many numbers they have. Big deal. In my opinion, it is quality, not quantity that matters with geocaching. Some people are just wired super-competitive about things, and this gives them another thing to "be better than you" at.

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

I agree. I think it is laughable that so many are so prideful about how many numbers they have. Big deal. In my opinion, it is quality, not quantity that matters with geocaching. Some people are just wired super-competitive about things, and this gives them another thing to "be better than you" at.

 

Yep, I'm STILL waiting for the whole low number of finds over a long period of time thang to become fashionable. :rolleyes:

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....Yep, I'm STILL waiting for the whole low number of finds over a long period of time thang to become fashionable. :rolleyes:

 

LESS is the new MORES. :rolleyes:

 

MrsB

Edited by The Blorenges

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I like the amount of finds that you have under your stats and in your account details, but I was thinking of a

point system also. For instance lets say there is a cache that is difficulty 5 and terrain 5, you should get some ...

I think the idea has merit, but would never be implemented in it's present form. I think that it could be tweaked to become palatable for both TPTB and most players. You could change the plan to award each player one point for each find that he/she made.

I think we already have this and it is called the find count. :rolleyes: ...

Really?

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not only would i not like to see a scoring system, but i would subvert it wherever possible.

 

...but i say that every time someone comes up with this idea...

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Since the current PTB won't ever implement your point system there really isn't any need to point out how bad I think your "idea" is. Can something that has already been suggested in many similar scenarios really be considered an idea any more? I also encourage you to develop your own personal point system. Don't forget bonus points for signing the log while standing on your head. I want no part of any of this. And if you need something more "interesting and challenging", you're in the perfect location to take up alligator wrestling. Imagine the bonus point possibilities in that game.

 

I was out one weekend on an event of caching in the islands of a nearby lake and had a water cache to attempt. We were waist deep in the water and out of nowhere a gator comes swimming by about 15 feet from us. It was crazy we kept looking though and let him go on with his business. Now that cache would have been worth a lot of points

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

Point system...No!!!

 

Ability to not show our Finds (except to ourselves)...Yes!!!

Edited by ArcherDragoon

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I DNF'd an improperly rated 1/1 last month when I got bit by a copperhead snake, and stopped looking for the cache.

Would that count for any points in your system? :D

 

BTW-I found the cache this past weekend. Do I get more points for returning to the scene? ;)

 

Pics are available here if anyone wants to see the gore. You might want to put the sandwich down first though. :D

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

Point system...No!!!

 

Ability to not show our Finds (except to ourselves)...Yes!!!

I would hope that if the site ever decides to allow people to hide their numbers from everyone, they also make it so everyone's numbers are hidden from that person too.

 

If you're going to hide yours there's no reason you need to see anyone else's, right?

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These are just my thoughts to make the fun a little more interesting and challenging.
....and more competitive. Not what this is all about. I'd rather see a cache rating system.... oops! Didn't mean to bring that up.... again.

 

Yes he did.....

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

Point system...No!!!

 

Ability to not show our Finds (except to ourselves)...Yes!!!

I would hope that if the site ever decides to allow people to hide their numbers from everyone, they also make it so everyone's numbers are hidden from that person too.

 

If you're going to hide yours there's no reason you need to see anyone else's, right?

 

I could live with that. Does it bother you that I would like to hide my find count? Mind you I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

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I miss Vinny. Vinny would have something to say about this.

 

It would probably involve goats, aliens, and invoke Godwin's law...

 

... but he would have something to say! ;)

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...Feed back Please!!!!

zoobum

 

There are a lot of ways to spin stats if you actually had them.

The old skydiver system used to give out points based on finding the least found caches. Urban caches with 6000 finds were not worth much. That 12 mile hike...worth quite a bit.

 

You can spin them by terrain, area, elevation, FTF, LFT. Longest streak and anything else you can think of.

 

There are a lot of fun things you can do with stats including things that folks who hate stats, hate compitition, and hate everthing that might reseble either, would enjoy.

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I would rather be out caching than spending the time calculating worthless scores.

 

That's the beauty of it. You need not even pay attention to anything but your worthless finds.

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...Feed back Please!!!!

zoobum

 

There are a lot of ways to spin stats if you actually had them.

The old skydiver system used to give out points based on finding the least found caches. Urban caches with 6000 finds were not worth much. That 12 mile hike...worth quite a bit.

 

You can spin them by terrain, area, elevation, FTF, LFT. Longest streak and anything else you can think of.

 

There are a lot of fun things you can do with stats including things that folks who hate stats, hate compitition, and hate everthing that might reseble either, would enjoy.

 

Two thoughts here.

1)There are lots of of site options for those who want to play with the numbers.

2)Speaking for myself here but, I have no problem with competition or stats. That just isn't why I cache.

3)None of the numbers really mean anything anyway. Seems everybody plays the game different. Just look at all the threads about what constitutes a find or when to actually log a DNF. Kinda makes any comparison near enough worthless.

4)I can't count for stuff that happens.

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...Feed back Please!!!!

zoobum

There are a lot of ways to spin stats if you actually had them.

The old skydiver system used to give out points based on finding the least found caches. Urban caches with 6000 finds were not worth much. That 12 mile hike...worth quite a bit.

 

You can spin them by terrain, area, elevation, FTF, LFT. Longest streak and anything else you can think of.

 

There are a lot of fun things you can do with stats including things that folks who hate stats, hate compitition, and hate everthing that might reseble either, would enjoy.

But can't we already access the bulk of that data through GSAK or INATN? If someone want's to compute a score for themselves and their friends, they can already do this. Having the site compute it for them wouldn't work because there would be too much disagreement as to how the score should be calculated. Heck, even if a calculation method was agreed upon, it still would be less than useful to use to compare two different cachers since there is lots of variation from cacher to cacher and region to region in how the size, difficulty and terrain ratings are used. Edited by sbell111

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The finding of caches is more like an eating contest: how fast can you eat 100 hotdogs? The hiding of caches is more like a cooking contest: how well can you cook a meal? While there is skill in both, but I'm more on the cooking side of things.

What a great analogy! :anitongue:

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I second this most excellent opinion. No need for ratings or points.

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...3)None of the numbers really mean anything anyway...

 

Ironicly now that stats are dead and have been for some time I see a lot more stats related complaints in the forums.

 

Numbers matter or folks would not have them, use them, enjoy them, or gripe about them. You can make the argument that they are meaningless but I think it's closer to say they mean a lot of differnt things to different people.

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...But can't we already access the bulk of that data through GSAK or INATN? If someone want's to compute a score for themselves and their friends, they can already do this. Having the site compute it for them wouldn't work because there would be too much disagreement as to how the score should be calculated....

 

Those sites are very limited in what they do. I love stats and seldom use them at all. They don't spin them in a way that interests me. Mostly I like automatic stats. Less work one the paperwork side of caching means more time for caching.

 

If the site spun it's own stats, or released data for another site/s to do it. There would be just as much angst as ever, just griping about calcs rather than having/not having stats. Still if one cacher hated Site X they could use site Y. X and Y would do their own spin on things and ther numbers would be final. Self calculated numbers are rather like the US Income Tax system.

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

Point system...No!!!

 

Ability to not show our Finds (except to ourselves)...Yes!!!

I would hope that if the site ever decides to allow people to hide their numbers from everyone, they also make it so everyone's numbers are hidden from that person too.

 

If you're going to hide yours there's no reason you need to see anyone else's, right?

 

I could live with that. Does it bother you that I would like to hide my find count? Mind you I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

Nope, it doesn't bother me at all. I just think that those who are so opposed to letting other people share their counts shouldn't be allowed to share the counts of other people.

 

Sort of like a smoker that doesn't want anyone else in the restaurant to smoke because he doesn't like to smell smoke while he eats, shouldn't be allowed to smoke in the restaurant either after he's done with his meal.

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I'm against this. Caching is different for every person. Some people only want long, hard multis in the woods and others like simple caches that take them some place scenic.

 

A points system would just build angst I think and make people say, "I've got more points that you. I'm a better cacher." No, you're not. You just cache differently.

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...3)None of the numbers really mean anything anyway...

 

Ironicly now that stats are dead and have been for some time I see a lot more stats related complaints in the forums.

 

Numbers matter or folks would not have them, use them, enjoy them, or gripe about them. You can make the argument that they are meaningless but I think it's closer to say they mean a lot of differnt things to different people.

 

They are meaningless in that they can't really be used to compare one cacher to another. Not with any accuracy. Heck, this group can't even agree on what constitutes a find. I know people who won't log a DNF. I know of others who will log a find if they see the cache. There are those who toss out a film can with a scrap of paper in it if they can't find the cache in three minutes. A micro at the end of a three mile hike compares to an ammo can five feet from parking how? By terrain and difficulty ratings? Have we figured out how to get those standardized? The point is that stats are used to compare things. How can we compare these things when we can't even agree on a definition of a lot of them?

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I would hope that if the site ever decides to allow people to hide their numbers from everyone, they also make it so everyone's numbers are hidden from that person too.

 

If you're going to hide yours there's no reason you need to see anyone else's, right?

 

I could live with that. Does it bother you that I would like to hide my find count? Mind you I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

Nope, it doesn't bother me at all. I just think that those who are so opposed to letting other people share their counts shouldn't be allowed to share the counts of other people.

 

Sort of like a smoker that doesn't want anyone else in the restaurant to smoke because he doesn't like to smell smoke while he eats, shouldn't be allowed to smoke in the restaurant either after he's done with his meal.

 

As I said, I could live with that. I think way too much emphasis has been placed on the number of finds that people have. I don't care how many caches you have found. What I really want to know is if/when I get to your area what caches are "Must do" caches. I may not agree with you, but hey, that's ok to.

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I miss Vinny. Vinny would have something to say about this.

 

It would probably involve goats, aliens, and invoke Godwin's law...

 

... but he would have something to say! :D

Well, much to the dismay of Keystone and the other mods (you can raise the DEFCON alert status level again, Keystone), I am back from my trip to Malaysia, where I found three caches, while accompanied by a strange Asian man who claims to be a time-traveler (yes, I even got to visit his time-space portal and take some pics of it) from the year 2212 and his adorable hottie girlfriend Kikki who was visiting from mainland China.

 

As for point systems, to make at least some pretense of keeping this all on topic, well.... as many responders have pointed out, you are free to slice and dice, or spin, your find stats any of hundreds or thousands of possible ways, but why bother imposing anything but the most simple and basic ways upon all users?

 

In fact, just to fulfill Groundspeak requirements demanding at least one citation or occurrence of Godwin's Law per thread, I could point out that anyone who wishes to impose their own particular method of slicing and dicing stats on all other users of the site is likely a Nazi!

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Well, much to the dismay of Keystone and the other mods (you can raise the DEFCON alert status level again, Keystone), I am back from my trip to Malaysia<snip>

 

THANK THE GODS! Things were just getting SO out of balance around here!

 

And back OT...

 

THIS SITE attempts to do what the OP suggests, and I understand there have been similar projects set up in other areas.

 

Incorrect D/T ratings are automatically compensated for.

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Geocaching is not a competition and I'd like to see it stay that way.

How about if instead of all these points being awarded for wearing clean shorts(or whatever) we get the ability to hide our find counts from others? That'll make me happy.

Point system...No!!!

 

Ability to not show our Finds (except to ourselves)...Yes!!!

I would hope that if the site ever decides to allow people to hide their numbers from everyone, they also make it so everyone's numbers are hidden from that person too.

 

If you're going to hide yours there's no reason you need to see anyone else's, right?

I could live with that. Does it bother you that I would like to hide my find count? Mind you I'm just trying to understand your point of view.
Nope, it doesn't bother me at all. I just think that those who are so opposed to letting other people share their counts shouldn't be allowed to share the counts of other people.

I could live with that, too. Probably about the only thing I would ask if they post a DNF, MN, or SBA that there be a link to a list of logs where they posted the same sort of log. This would help determine how often their DNFs mean the cache is missing. If all of their DNF posts generally means the cache ends up missing this would tell you something much different than someone whose DNFs generally means only they were not able to find it.

 

Don't forget to add the ability of my caches to not be included in anyone's find count. If I don't want to play the smilie game, I don't want my caches playing either.

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Don't forget to add the ability of my caches to not be included in anyone's find count. If I don't want to play the smilie game, I don't want my caches playing either.

Fine by me.

 

If I want my total to remain accurate and reflect the truth, I can always post a smiley-with-explanation on one of my own caches for each "zero-calorie" find I log on one of yours.

 

(Isn't it interesting that certain people preach loudly against logs which would falsely increase a person’s find count, yet don't seem to have a problem with – and would actually promote – an intentional inaccuracy which would falsely decrease a person’s find count? This is a glaring inconsistency. I must assume, therefore, that my friend Coyote’s quoted comment here is tongue-in-cheek.)

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(Isn't it interesting that certain people preach loudly against logs which would falsely increase a person’s find count, yet don't seem to have a problem with – and would actually promote – an intentional inaccuracy which would falsely decrease a person’s find count? This is a glaring inconsistency. I must assume, therefore, that my friend Coyote’s quoted comment here is tongue-in-cheek.)

Isn't interesting that some folks can't resist a personal attack? Not a personal attack? No? Twisting logic into something that makes someone look like a hypocrite?

 

Let me explain something about your logic. I've said elsewhere I don't care whether someone falsely logs one their own caches. Maybe you missed that post or maybe you're hoping others missed it, but either way I'll link to it for you. I "preach loudly against" false logs on the cache page that could affect the actions of others, which if you want to discuss the subject open another thread.

 

My desire for no point system is not in contrast with my opinion of false logging. Therefore, your logic fails miserably and no inconsistency, in the least, on my part.

 

But don't worry, I won't demand an apology from you.

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The finding of caches is more like an eating contest: how fast can you eat 100 hotdogs? The hiding of caches is more like a cooking contest: how well can you cook a meal? While there is skill in both, but I'm more on the cooking side of things.
What a great analogy! :D
Hmm... so all those caches put out there for the numbers cachers are like hot dogs, while the quality hiders are more along the lines of a gourmet meal? I think I like this analogy... :o

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(Isn't it interesting that certain people preach loudly against logs which would falsely increase a person’s find count, yet don't seem to have a problem with – and would actually promote – an intentional inaccuracy which would falsely decrease a person’s find count? This is a glaring inconsistency. I must assume, therefore, that my friend Coyote’s quoted comment here is tongue-in-cheek.)

Isn't interesting that some folks can't resist a personal attack? Not a personal attack? No? Twisting logic into something that makes someone look like a hypocrite?

Why do you feel attacked? I didn’t attack you, Coyote. I only addressed your statement. I simply see an inconsistency in some of the things you’ve said. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt, and assumed your most recent statement to be deliberately ironic. That's hardly accusing you of hypocrisy. Exactly the opposite, in fact. Didn't you read what you quoted before you posted it?

 

Let me explain something about your logic. I've said elsewhere I don't care whether someone falsely logs one their own caches.

You are mixing up two different statements of mine. I'll assume it was unintentional, and that you were in a hurry.

 

When I pointed out the contradiction I wasn’t talking about someone falsely logging finds on his own cache. I assumed you’d be fine with the part about me logging a find on my own cache in order to maintain a true and accurate find count, because I assumed you value truthfulness. (Was I wrong?)

 

No, I was addressing the fact that your proposal to intentionally skew other people’s find counts (by not allowing your own caches to count) seems directly in conflict with other statements you’ve made about inaccuracy in logging, such as this one from a recent thread:

 

Quite frankly, condoning bogus logs makes me wonder about one's moral compass.

Intentionally skewing the accuracy – the truthfulness – of a cacher’s find count is either wrong or it isn’t. Which is it, Coyote? Which way does your moral compass point on that question?

 

Why do you seem to condone it in one direction, but not the other?

 

My desire for no point system is not in contrast with my opinion of false logging.

Huh? I never said anything about your desire for "no point system." I was addressing your desire not to have finds at your caches count toward other people’s find totals.

 

You said: "Don't forget to add the ability of my caches to not be included in anyone's find count. If I don't want to play the smilie game, I don't want my caches playing either."

 

Therefore, your logic fails miserably and no inconsistency, in the least, on my part.

No inconsistency?

 

So you weren’t posting tongue-in cheek? You were serious about intentionally causing people’s find counts to be false and inaccurate?

 

Or are you saying that you are no longer bothered by bogus loggers who intentionally cause their own find counts to be false and inaccurate?

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