Maintenance Etiquette ?

[+Guiper]

Hello-- long time listener, first time poster. I just want to say I love your show...

 

I recently found my 100th cache. It was a magnetic nano, placed on a stop sign in a front yard of a house at a street corner. It contained a thinner-than-necessary log strip, that was completely full. I was able to write my "G" and date only. After logging it, I issued a separate maintenance request to replace the log. I did mention that I would have preferred a milestone cache to have been a bit more exciting. It must have hurt someone's feelings...

 

Yesterday, I checked out the cache listing (GCNW76) to see what the status was on it. The owner had indeed replaced the logsheet, and also left a nastygram stating that the owners actually lived in that house, and that I should have knocked on the door and said "hello, and by the way the log on your cache is full", or gone ahead and been a sport and replace the logsheet for them. They finished by asking if "I wanted some cheese with my whine?"

 

This raised my blood pressure by 20 points, on Thanksgiving, no less; I don't appreciate getting flamed. Rather than do something I'd probably regret later, I edited my log comments for this cache, placing an addendum stating that I didn't know the owners lived there, tried to avoid muggles rather than knock on doors in the evenings willy-nilly, and mentioned that if the owners of a nano on their property let a logsheet fill up, they should be called out on it. I concluded that I was willing to let this incident slide if they retracted the note, and I'd redact my comments on this cache.

 

My questions are: did I do anything wrong the first time, should I have not issued a maintenance request, or just let the owners' rude behavior slide, and what do you do with a used logsheet afterwards? This couple has established a local reputation for crankiness, despite religious overtones on their site (hence the "WWJD?" in my comments). I'd appreciate any comments you might have...

Edited November 23, 2007 by Guiper

[+The Leprechauns]

1. Unless I know the cache owner, I am shy about knocking on someone's door when finding their cache. Is it even obvious which house they live in?

 

2. There were two logs prior to yours which mention the full log. There's no excuse for not maintaining a cache in your own front yard -- sure, I might take a month to visit a cache that's a long hike in a park miles away, but if I can change the log in my robe and slippers, why not do it at the first reported sign of trouble in October?

 

3. There are hypersensitive people in every hobby. There are gurks in every hobby. Just ignore them and keep having fun.

[+Klatch]

 

I did mention that I would have preferred a milestone cache to have been a bit more exciting. It must have hurt someone's feelings...

The cache page clearly indicates it was a micro and the map shows it was on a street in a town It you don't find those types of caches exciting, why bother to do it, especially for a milestone cache?

[+egami]

Well, looking at the actual logs, and assuming you didn't change the original log message and just appended to it, I can see your frustration. It'd be nice to write something in a log book about your find rather than finding a crowded, used log book...but then, I would kinda fall back on what Klatch said...why do a micro for that one?

 

Personally, I probably wouldn't have wasted time with the secondary edit because then it can come off like you're in the same boat now to subsequent cachers.

 

I think the majority of the people who would read the log comments from a couple of old farts with a username like that in reply to your original, unedited post would just kinda just let that whine and cheese comment speak for itself. Because I don't think your previous, unedited comment was anything to get all worked up over.

 

Especially considering it's RIGHT in front of there house and there were multiple previous comments in find logs regarding the logbook becoming full.

Edited November 23, 2007 by egami

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Logging Needs Maintenance on caches that do is entirely appropriate.

 

Leaving comments that you don't like a particular kind of cache or hide style is not.

 

I carry a stash of cache-repair materials and if I can fix the issue I do. If I replace the log I keep it and email the owner that I will mail it to them if they want the old one. If I do pull maintenance I leave a note in my find log stating what I did, or if I don't log the find I email the owner. I usually have ten trinkets or so in my stash-bag and if I find a cache depleted I will restock it. I even carry a variety of small caches to replace missing ones, and if I can contact the owner via cell phone and verify that it's gone I will replace it.

 

I have a TB Hotel on my front porch - I clearly state in the cache listing that it is at my residence and give not just the coordinates but my address and phone number, and invite finders to call before looking if they are uncomfortable with caches at residences. The cache is a double-size ammo can set out in plain sight so no looking is required; you can see it when you drive up. I would not hide a micro, much less a nano, in a residential area... that's just asking for trouble. I also alerted my neighbors that folks would be prowling my front yard (and maybe theirs!) at all hours. I did that after a cacher called me for a clue and said "My kids and I have been searching your front porch for 15 minutes, is it behind the cabinet?" To which I had to reply "No, the cabinet is on my neighbor's porch!".

 

As to the flame, keep in mind that the best thing about geocaching is that it is open to everyone... and the worst thing about geocaching is - that it is open to everyone!! While the VAST majority of geocachers are cool people, there are some twerps... just like in the rest of society!

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

keep in mind that the best thing about geocaching is that it is open to everyone... and the worst thing about geocaching is - that it is open to everyone!!

 

Words of wisdom I force myself to repeat everytime I run into certain geocachers in my area!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+Guiper]

 

[The cache page clearly indicates it was a micro and the map shows it was on a street in a town It you don't find those types of caches exciting, why bother to do it, especially for a milestone cache?

 

Actually, I had found it several days earlier, but dated the logsheet after the upcoming weekend in hopes that I'd find time to go out on the weekend and find one more fitting. Unfortunately, due to prior commitments and weather, I had to leave it at that.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Guiper

[+Guiper]

Rambler, this experience has taught me a lesson about carrying spare logsheets in the car, instead of my caching bag.

 

The fact remains, though, that the owner mows his lawn around this stop sign, his mailbox is thirty feet away from it, and is twenty feet from where they park their cars. If they're going to plant it, they need to maintain it and not place blame on unprepared cachers. My comments regarding not liking a particular cache style was more a lament to myself and not a comment on their hide.

 

Your comments in closing will be words to live by. Thanks for the input!

[+Trucker Lee]

You did nothing wrong as the full log had already been mentioned twice. As to the cache quality for your milestone, that was inadequate research on your part. The attributes and prior logs should have indicated something. For meaningful milestones, go for larger caches.

 

 

As to the flaming, it was uncalled for. But fortunately, there is a proper procedure for incidents such as this......... BIOCO

 

that is.................

 

 

 

BLOW IT OFF -- CACHE ON

[+uxorious]

Actually, I had found it several days earlier, but dated the logsheet after the upcoming weekend in hopes that I'd find time to go out on the weekend and find one more fitting. Unfortunately, due to prior commitments and weather, I had to leave it at that.

 

This doesn't make much sense, the cache is either the 100th you found or it is not. Changing the dates around on your 110th cache and your 100th doesn't change the order you found them in.

 

As for the cache owners response, they were out of line expecting someone to knock on their door. I wouldn't do that even if I knew the cache owners.

[+andGuest]

Personally I do not EVER feel obligated to maintain caches that I find especially if people in the past log that the log is getting full. If cache owner don't want to constantly replace the log then don't place nanos. This instance is even worse since it is in front of his house. If I wanted to replace logs and maintain cahces then I would place more of my own.

[+briansnat]

My questions are: did I do anything wrong the first time, should I have not issued a maintenance request, or just let the owners' rude behavior slide, and what do you do with a used logsheet afterwards?

 

You were right to log the needs maintenance because the cache needed maintenance. As far as the owner's behavior, life is too short to worry about stuff like that. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he's a jerk. Just move on and have fun.

[+BlueDeuce]

You did nothing wrong as the full log had already been mentioned twice. As to the cache quality for your milestone, that was inadequate research on your part. The attributes and prior logs should have indicated something. For meaningful milestones, go for larger caches.

 

 

As to the flaming, it was uncalled for. But fortunately, there is a proper procedure for incidents such as this......... BIOCO

 

 

ayep

[nobby.nobbs]

I actually welcome constructive feedback on my caches. Helps me prioritise the order of maintenance visits.

 

Just ignore the idiot.

[+Ambrosia]

I think that some cache owners misunderstand what the needs maintenance log means. I think some cache owners take it as a put down or something close to the feel of a should be archived, etc. I've had that feeling in the past, as well. But after thinking about it and reading forum threads about it, I can see that it's just a helpful notice to owners. Sometimes when an owner gets lots of logs, they may not read all of them thoroughly and could miss the log full comments. Needs maintenance logs pop out and are an extra alert to make sure that the owner sees them. It's a courtesy, not a judgement.

 

I always try to find a special cache for milestones, but I understand that it doesn't work out every time. I know that you weren't saying anything against the cache owner when you made the milestone comment, but it's possible to see that a sensitive person could take it wrong. I'm sure that something positive could have been said about the cache or caching experience. I had to do a milestone once at a nondescript micro in a parking lot, so I just talked about how nice it was to have a milestone with my friends and family.

 

There is no excuse for the way they reacted. It's possible that they're embarrassed that they didn't take care of their cache and so are taking it out on you. That happens, people amaze me all the time. I just say, "Wow." and then go on.

 

I've only replaced a cache log a couple times, and only when I knew the owner personally. I don't really feel comfortable doing that with cachers I don't know. Although I will help with other maintenance issues like new baggies or pens, etc.

 

At least they didn't erase your log, which seems to happen sometimes in these cases.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Yesterday, I checked out the cache listing (GCNW76) to see what the status was on it. The owner had indeed replaced the logsheet, and also left a nastygram stating that the owners actually lived in that house, and that I should have knocked on the door and said "hello, and by the way the log on your cache is full", or gone ahead and been a sport and replace the logsheet for them. They finished by asking if "I wanted some cheese with my whine?"

 

I would never knock on the door for the risk that they would be the sort of person who might say something like "Do you want some cheese with your whine?" Why would you want to meet someone like that? Better to just post a "needs maintenence."

 

Additionally, if they lived right there, then there was no excuse for them to let it get that far before taking care of it.

[+Guiper]

Thank you all for your input, comments, and constructive criticism in this issue. Here's what I'm going to take from this experience:

 

1. I really do need to get that cache repair kit together, that I've been telling myself to do for some time now. This would probably have eliminated the necessity to post this in the first place.

 

2. The best and worst thing about Geocaching is that it's open to everyone. Appreciate the good ones and shine the bad ones on.

 

3. I need to put cache #100 behind me, and look forward to #200 and beyond.

 

4. This will motivate me to hide some caches of my own, if I can locate some spots that aren't within range of other ones. I'll be sure to monitor comments as to when to replace logsheets, and will welcome maintenance requests when necessary.

 

5. I reallly need to find a cool avatar and a fitting signature for my posts!

 

Thank you all again for your comments and wish you all a Happy Holiday Season, wherever you are.

[+PJPeters]

Thank you all for your input, comments, and constructive criticism in this issue. Here's what I'm going to take from this experience:

 

1. I really do need to get that cache repair kit together, that I've been telling myself to do for some time now. This would probably have eliminated the necessity to post this in the first place.

I've started making it a habit of carrying a complete cache with me, holding a few extra logbooks, Ziplocs, and pencils. You never know when you're going to find that perfect spot for a cache, or one that needs a little attention. About the only thing I'm not carrying right now is duct tape (I need to remedy that!).

2. The best and worst thing about Geocaching is that it's open to everyone. Appreciate the good ones and shine the bad ones on.

 

3. I need to put cache #100 behind me, and look forward to #200 and beyond.

 

4. This will motivate me to hide some caches of my own, if I can locate some spots that aren't within range of other ones. I'll be sure to monitor comments as to when to replace logsheets, and will welcome maintenance requests when necessary.

I thought the same thing, when I started thinking about hiding caches: All the good spots are taken. My first hide was a bit pathetic, and I archived it quite soon after hiding it. I've since hidden four and adopted one, all in pretty nice locations. All it takes is some patience. People archive all the time.

I had a maintenance request on a cache a couple weeks ago. Coincidently, I was planning on heading out that way the next day, so I replaced the wet container with a new, larger one. I'm very grateful to the cacher that told me about it.

5. I reallly need to find a cool avatar and a fitting signature for my posts!

 

Thank you all again for your comments and wish you all a Happy Holiday Season, wherever you are.

[+CelticButterfly]

After just having placed my first cache, I *know* I will want to replace the logbook on my own, so I can be sure to see all the neat entries! That's half the fun for me. This feels like my baby out there, I want to know if its full or empty or broken so I can go take care of it.

[+StarBrand]

Nothing wrong with making honest comments in any log. The reaction was a bit over-the-top. Don't worry about it.

[CoyoteRed]

My questions are: did I do anything wrong the first time, should I have not issued a maintenance request, or just let the owners' rude behavior slide, and what do you do with a used logsheet afterwards?

You did not do anything wrong. You were right to issue the maintenance request. Yes, let the rude behavior slide. I wouldn't have replaced the log sheet. At best I would have added to the logs in the cache--I don't remove logsheets/books. I certainly would not have gone to more trouble to help out the owner than the owner was willing to do himself--especially in placing the cache in the first place.

[+Robespierre]

I think the best cache owners are:

-willing to temp. disable until they can check.

-willing to overlook (most of the time) a perceived disapproval. They are not threatened by some wayward comment.

-trying to get approval by the quality of what they do, rather than expecting approval for coloring poorly (kg. reference). Some people think they should get praised just for showing up.

[wildridge]

I had a similar experience on Thanksgiving day. I went to look for a cache for the second try. I contacted the cache owner on the first try, but never got a response. I haven't been able to find this cache along with some other people. Some of the cachers who did find it said the coordinates were off by 40 feet and is missing a geocoin. This cache is in a high muggle federal park and they are also installing new water pipe in the area. I finally posted a needs maintenance log to correct the coordinates and to also make sure the water pipe construction wouldn't interfere with the cache. The cache owner got very mad, deleted my log, accused me of not even going to the cache, called me inexperienced/not devoted to geocaching, then went on to ramble about how many finds he had. I don't have hundreds of finds on gc.com, but I am very experienced with my gpsr due to other reasons. The cache owner basically said that since I had so few finds I didn't have an credibility. When did gc.com get to be the indicator of a persons gps experience?

 

I don't know about other cache owners, but if I start getting dnf's I will go and check on it. If somebody says my coordinates are wrong, I invite them to help correct the problem.

 

My experience with this cache owner has led me to believe that he feels like his little group of cachers are the only ones entitled to geocaching. I'm afraid that people like this will end up trying to govern the geocaching sport. The person who has the most finds isn't necessarily the right person for the job.

[+scuba dude]

Yep, jerks are present in everything we do in life, including caching. I recently had a local cache (a micro) that I couldn't find. It was driving me nuts that I went back over and over and couldn't find it. I emailed the owner asking to verify if I was in the right area. No response. Finally I sumitted a DNF. The owner DELETED MY DNF. WTF? I emailed asking if I did something wrong in posting my DNF. Again, no reply. I went looking again. This time I sumitted a note that I couldn't find it. Again it gets deleted. Then, after over a dozen trips, hours of searching, I see 2 recent find logs. I go back and find it in the very first place I looked. Barely hidden at all.

 

I just resolved to not search out any more of that person's caches. Too many other great caches to be found to let one hider get me down.

 

SD

Edited November 25, 2007 by scuba dude

[+Scare Force One]

I don't think you did nything wrong. It sounds like they guy is just a little crazy.

 

~.~Scare Force One

[+Renegade Knight]

Hello-- long time listener, first time poster. I just want to say I love your show...

 

I recently found my 100th cache. It was a magnetic nano, placed on a stop sign in a front yard of a house at a street corner. It contained a thinner-than-necessary log strip, that was completely full. I was able to write my "G" and date only. After logging it, I issued a separate maintenance request to replace the log. I did mention that I would have preferred a milestone cache to have been a bit more exciting. It must have hurt someone's feelings......

 

People don't like being dressed down in general but they like it less with witnesses. The Should be archived logs and the needs maintance logs are just like being chewed out in public. Some will disagree on how you should feel about them, but that doesn't change how some folks, myself included actually do feel about them.

 

Short answer. Before doing a public NM or SBA log try a discrete email. The public logs are for a public solution to an abandoned cache. Active owners don't need them, they will take care of it, when life and time permit.

 

As for rude, there is enough to paint both you and the cache owner.

Is it their fault you chose their cache for your 100th find? If you truly cared about a better cache for 100 you did have the option to pick a special one, or check the coords and say to yourself, "Um...no...this spot isn't where I want to make my 100th cache" In spite of that when you found it and logged it anyway you slammed the cache in public for you're own mistake and commented that the cache fell short of your 100th find expectations. Everone else has commented on the rude cache owner so I don't need to cover that.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+DesertDoc & Pogonis]

I ready your initial post and initially thought - geesh - just replace log. I've ran into to caches needing a log, pen, and have built and carry my "cache repair" kit. But you made the point as to what to do with the old log and that made sense to me as well.

 

THEN, out of curiosity, I had to read the logs of the cache and can certainly see your angst! But, like previous posts have said, forget them and Cache On. It's easy for anyone to see who has the real problem.

 

Oh, and Happy Holidays to EveryOne!

[+trainlove]

If you replaced the full log book, I kind of think that he would have come and try to knock on your door to get the old log back.

If I do not know the cacher I will not replace a log sheet/book. But if I do know him I'll do that and hand him the old one next time we meet at an event, which seems to be about every week up here in Massachusetts.

[wildridge]

Unfortunately, some cache owners take it as a blow to their ego when someone posts a NM request. I don't see any clearly defined rules as to when to use this button and some people interpret it differently. Some people form little geocaching groups and try to define their own set of rules. If you upset one cache owner in the group, then you've upset the whole group, which makes it difficult to cache that area.

 

Here is a clip taken from the first cache placing requirements on gc.com:

 

Step 5 - Maintain the cache

 

Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You'll need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area, and ensure that the cache is in good repair.

 

Once people have visited the cache, inquire about the cache and their opinion of the location. Does the area look disturbed? Are visitors disrupting the landscape in any way? If you have concerns about the location, feel free to move or remove it from the area.