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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache :ninja: . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :)
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.

In her second post, she mentioned that she took the log with her to the car.

Edited by sbell111
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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache :ninja: . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :)
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.

 

That's it. I've seen enough of this silly bickering.

 

I'm claiming FTF on this cache. So FamilyDNA and LewisClan77 are now respectively 2nd and 3rd to find. There, no more argument. Now let me go update my FTF stats so I can brag about it.

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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache :ninja: . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :)
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.

In her second post, she mentioned that she took the log with her to the car.

 

If she took the log back to the car, then what he found wasn't a cache since it didn't have a log book :D

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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache :) . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :D
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.

 

That's it. I've seen enough of this silly bickering.

 

I'm claiming FTF on this cache. So FamilyDNA and LewisClan77 are now respectively 2nd and 3rd to find. There, no more argument. Now let me go update my FTF stats so I can brag about it.

 

You can't do that! You aren't from California. I claim FTF! :ninja:

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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache :D . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :huh:
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.

 

That's it. I've seen enough of this silly bickering.

 

I'm claiming FTF on this cache. So FamilyDNA and LewisClan77 are now respectively 2nd and 3rd to find. There, no more argument. Now let me go update my FTF stats so I can brag about it.

 

You can't do that! You aren't from California. I claim FTF! :ninja:

OK. Just a hypothetical then. I went to get a first to find on a cache. When I got there I found one cacher holding the log book an frantically looking for a pen in her pockets and another cacher holding a pen and trying to negotiate with the holder of the log book for a co-FTF. The cache was sitting opened on the ground between them. So I took one of my stickers and stuck it on the inside of the cache and claimed FTF. Those two fools can argue all they want and so can all the people who are spending time in the forums instead of going after those FTFs. :)

Edited by tozainamboku
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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache ;) . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :)
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.

 

That's it. I've seen enough of this silly bickering.

 

I'm claiming FTF on this cache. So FamilyDNA and LewisClan77 are now respectively 2nd and 3rd to find. There, no more argument. Now let me go update my FTF stats so I can brag about it.

 

You can't do that! You aren't from California. I claim FTF! :ninja:

OK. Just a hypothetical then. I went to get a first to find on a cache. When I got there I found one cacher holding the log book an frantically looking for a pen in her pockets and another cacher holding a pen and trying to negotiate with the holder of the log book for a co-FTF. The cache was sitting opened on the ground between them. So I took one of my stickers and stuck it on the inside of the cache and claimed FTF. Those two fools can argue all they want and so can all the people who are spending time in the forums instead of going after those FTFs. :D

 

Sorry, I just peeled off your sticker. FTF is still mine. bwahaa :huh:

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I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

 

She was FTF.

 

You were FTFAP (first to find a pen) and also FTATRIQ (first to ask this really inane question)

So you have 2 firsts! Thats better than being last! :ninja:

 

Ooh, ooh, wait...

 

If he was FIRST to LOG ONLINE, then he could get a "FTL" star on his sticker chart, too!

 

There are a bunch of morons here who log like that... Like, dude, wow. That's impressive duh44.gif

 

 

michelle

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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache :ninja: . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :)
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

No, you're right. That's what happened.

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It seems to me the OP was FTF. FamilyDNA did not sign the log because she didn't have a pen. I've been around these forum enough to know that if you didn't sign the log you didn't find the cache :ninja: . At least that's what the puritans say. I don't understand how some of these same puritans now say that if you didn't sign the log but the person who was first to sign then lets you borrow a pen that makes you first to find. :)
As I read the situation, the OP wasn't the first to sign. The other cacher still had the logbook, borrowed the pen and then gave the logbook and pen to the OP. Of course, I may be wrong.

The way I read it, FDNA rehid the cache while she went back to her car to get a pen. In the meantime LewisClan shows up and starts looking for the cache. She let's him find it. If I were him I would sign the log first claim the FTF and then loan the pen to FDNA to sign if she wanted to. I think offering the co-FTF was very gracious on his part.

I re-hid the cache, but held on to the log. He knew I'd already found it before he started looking. I was standing right there.

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I don't get all the spiteful comments on being FTF?!?

 

- It is a fun challenge to blaze the trail first.

- There are no extra clues in the previous logs (because there aren't any :D ).

- There's no "geotrail" or other damage to the cache site from "aggressive seeking" to give anything away.

- You find the cache EXACTLY as the hider intended (we all know that they will "migrate" with each successive find).

- Mmmmmm..... clean, crisp, blank logsheet! ;)

- You enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the chance that you might get to meet a fellow Geocacher "in the field" (one of Geocaching's greatest pleasures!).

- Should it get recognition, or count for anything at GC.com... Nope! I keep track of my own stats thanks.

 

I think the FTF is a worthy objective. I'm not a huge FTF hound (we have plenty in our area) but I definitely get a kick out of them.

 

I would have handed the pen to the first finder and congratulated them on their find. Then I would happily log my newest find and be on my merry way, glad to have met a fellow cacher!

 

And when I do get lucky enough to be FTF would I post a log that looked like:

 

B) B) Yesssssss! B):) FTF B):D Baby! :):huh:

 

You bet I would!... and in the end, the only reason it means anything is because I had fun doing it. B)

 

Driver Carries Cache

I did not mean to come across as spiteful.

 

I have no problem with anyone being a FTF or attempting a FTF. It is a little different kind of caching i suppose due to the reasons you stated. Although some remote caches may not have trails and are pretty much the same challenge for everyone.

 

We only use clues and logs when we are stumped after a while of looking or the fun starts to run out. Isnt that how everyone plays? If you read the clues/logs first, what fun is that? - why not just put a big flag at the cache with the GC# on it? Wait, ive seen that too. :ninja:

 

Nothing wrong with being pleased or happy with being FTF. Just like nothing wrong with being proud you found a cache. It is a challenge that you have overcome.

 

Hey climb a mountain or do a 10 mile hike to be FTF- cool. Maybe an atta-boy is deserved.

 

But when i get a notification i can do one of two things go or stay home. I usually choose to stay home unless i suspect good swag for the kids to trade with. I'll get it eventually- but no need to make a special trip just to tell everyone i was FTF in my logs. Record the time of your visit and date. If anyone cared they could find the info from the logs.

 

Is it gloating when you make a big deal from being FTF? I dont know. But it doesnt make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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okay, boys and girls! it's time for a little quizzle.

 

1. according to the majority of responses in this thread, the OP is:

 

a. confused

b. confused and wrong

c. horribly, terribly wrong

d. a small, petty person lacking in social skills

 

2. from reading the original post, one might reasonably conclude:

 

a. the OP is deeply troubled

b. the OP is not gracious in defeat or even a tie

c. the OP would charge an admission fee at a funeral

d. the OP lives in california

 

3. the original post is likely to be:

 

a. a legitimate question brought before the geocaching community

b. a whiny attempt to sway public opinion

c. a solicitation for a magazine subscription

d. a joke meant to liven up a slow friday afternoon

 

4. when the OP returns, he will most likely

 

a decide to claim FTF on this cache and several others he noticed along the way

b. concede this FTF but keep trying to trade pen rental for FTF status for an indeterminate length of time

c. declare this whole thread to be a vindication of his action

d. slink away, never to be heard from again

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Just my .02 about the Spirit of Geocaching:

 

Its seems there was a sense of spirit in FamilyDNA. They could have driven away with the logbook, or hey, even the cache, to go find a pen. Or they could have left the cache open and the hiding place exposed while trying to log their FTF. However, when the OP showed up, FamilyDNA had already rehid the cache, and waited patiently so that the other cacher could have the thrill of the find too.

The OP was very gracious, and paid them back by trying take their FTF!!! :ninja:

Even then, FamilyDNA did not start an arguement, but simply allowed the OP to log what they please. FDNA was proud of the find, but didn't need Geocaching.com's official recognition, as they knew they were first, and that (from what I gathered from reading) was enough for them.

In essence, the OP 'got their way', even though it wasn't right, and STILL came on the forums to make a petty fuss about it. Even now, FamilyDNA has only come on to confirm the events and answer questions.

 

It seems that FamilyDNA acted very respecfully and in the 'spirit' of geocaching, while the OP is causing nothing but grief. However, in situations like this, anyone reading the forum or cache logs will be able to see exactly what happened, and the OP is only making themself look bad.

 

I'm glad you're not letting this detract from your experience, FamilyDNA! (I guess its the good genes... :))

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I don't get all the spiteful comments on being FTF?!?

 

- It is a fun challenge to blaze the trail first.

- There are no extra clues in the previous logs (because there aren't any :D ).

- There's no "geotrail" or other damage to the cache site from "aggressive seeking" to give anything away.

- You find the cache EXACTLY as the hider intended (we all know that they will "migrate" with each successive find).

- Mmmmmm..... clean, crisp, blank logsheet! B)

- You enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the chance that you might get to meet a fellow Geocacher "in the field" (one of Geocaching's greatest pleasures!).

- Should it get recognition, or count for anything at GC.com... Nope! I keep track of my own stats thanks.

 

I think the FTF is a worthy objective. I'm not a huge FTF hound (we have plenty in our area) but I definitely get a kick out of them.

 

I would have handed the pen to the first finder and congratulated them on their find. Then I would happily log my newest find and be on my merry way, glad to have met a fellow cacher!

 

And when I do get lucky enough to be FTF would I post a log that looked like:

 

B):ninja: Yesssssss! B):huh: FTF B);) Baby! :P:)

 

You bet I would!... and in the end, the only reason it means anything is because I had fun doing it. B)

 

Driver Carries Cache

I did not mean to come across as spiteful.

 

I have no problem with anyone being a FTF or attempting a FTF. It is a little different kind of caching i suppose due to the reasons you stated. Although some remote caches may not have trails and are pretty much the same challenge for everyone.

 

We only use clues and logs when we are stumped after a while of looking or the fun starts to run out. Isnt that how everyone plays? If you read the clues/logs first, what fun is that? - why not just put a big flag at the cache with the GC# on it? Wait, ive seen that too. :)

 

Nothing wrong with being pleased or happy with being FTF. Just like nothing wrong with being proud you found a cache. It is a challenge that you have overcome.

 

Hey climb a mountain or do a 10 mile hike to be FTF- cool. Maybe an atta-boy is deserved.

 

Fair enough.. :)

 

But when i get a notification i can do one of two things go or stay home. I usually choose to stay home unless i suspect good swag for the kids to trade with. I'll get it eventually- but no need to make a special trip just to tell everyone i was FTF in my logs. Record the time of your visit and date. If anyone cared they could find the info from the logs.

 

I'd agree with that! I won't run after one unless it's within about 5 or 6 minutes drive of home. We have a local FTF hound who is notorious for finding caches in the dark in the wee hours of the morning! :D

He can have them :D .

 

Is it gloating when you make a big deal from being FTF? I dont know. But it doesnt make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

Luckily no one has ever caught me on film doing my wacky little FTF dance!

 

Oh you gotta love it!

 

Thanks for the discussion :)

 

DCC

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Not FTF but FTS first to sign =D That could count for something..

The only thing that could count would be first to log online (FTLOL). The website has no way of knowing who actually signed the log first let alone who found the cache first. It can only know who log online first. And this would not be based on the date found - anyone could backdate a log - it would be who actually got online and wrote a 'found it' log first. It would be just like the find count - an accurate count of how many online found it logs you have - this would be as accurate count of who submitted the first online found it log. I wonder if you logged a note when you get the notification of a new cache and then changed it to a find when you actually find the cache months later, if this would trick the system into think your 'found it' was actually entered first? :ninja:

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Just imagine if the first-to-finder had given up on the pen and left ground zero (or go buy a pen). Man, there'd be some angst!

 

I'm sure I have 2 or 3 pens somewhere in the car. Comes with "living" in the car - I spend more time in that thing than you could imagine.

 

BTW... is the OP still checking in on this post? I wonder...

 

(edit bcuz I can't spl goodly)

Edited by PJPeters
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Just my .02 about the Spirit of Geocaching:

 

Its seems there was a sense of spirit in FamilyDNA. They could have driven away with the logbook, or hey, even the cache, to go find a pen. Or they could have left the cache open and the hiding place exposed while trying to log their FTF. However, when the OP showed up, FamilyDNA had already rehid the cache, and waited patiently so that the other cacher could have the thrill of the find too.

The OP was very gracious, and paid them back by trying take their FTF!!! :ninja:

Even then, FamilyDNA did not start an arguement, but simply allowed the OP to log what they please. FDNA was proud of the find, but didn't need Geocaching.com's official recognition, as they knew they were first, and that (from what I gathered from reading) was enough for them.

In essence, the OP 'got their way', even though it wasn't right, and STILL came on the forums to make a petty fuss about it. Even now, FamilyDNA has only come on to confirm the events and answer questions.

 

It seems that FamilyDNA acted very respecfully and in the 'spirit' of geocaching, while the OP is causing nothing but grief. However, in situations like this, anyone reading the forum or cache logs will be able to see exactly what happened, and the OP is only making themself look bad.

 

I'm glad you're not letting this detract from your experience, FamilyDNA! (I guess its the good genes... :))

I would only be making myself look bad if I cared what people thought...which I do not
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BTW... is the OP still checking in on this post? I wonder...

 

Yes I am and I think its funny.

 

dude, we're not laughing WITH you, we're laughing AT you.

 

thuderously and riotously. and it is even funnier since you persist. i'll recap the action in case anybody missed it.

 

simulated dialogue:

 

you: "i have taken a dump on the buffet table. isn't it handsome? wasn't i good to do it?"

everyone present: "no, it is not handsome. you were not good to do it. you have embarassed yourself and we will now laugh at you for a long time."

you: "this is very funny and i am proud to be devoid of social skills. when is the next party?"

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I would only be making myself look bad if I cared what people thought...which I do not

I found a cache tonight-GC14FYW-and when I pulled up there was another cacher who was there.Only problem was she had no pen to sign.Technically she was first but I had a pen and offered to let her use it if we do a co-FTF.She said I can claim whatever I want, so I did.Do you think it is all right to do that?

:D

 

This has got to be one of the silliest threads I've ever read in the forum - even without my attempt to turn it into a discussion of who signed first which people kept shooting down with the facts.

If you really don't care what other people think you would simply log your find and claim a co-FTF since the other person wasn't able to sign the log till you showed up. And she could've have written in her log to thank you for the pen but still claim sole FTF. If you left it like that only a few people in California would have even been aware of any controversy. Bringing it up on the forum is silly because there is nothing official as a FTF. Instead you've made all us Californians look petty :) If this cache is still around next spring I say that every one who goes to Geowoodstock VI claim a FTF on this cache. :ninja:

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Being new I have a question about the proper etiquette for claiming first to find.

My son and I often cache together and are occasionally lucky enough to be able to be the first to a cache. We usually take turns on being FTF but can we both claim it?

That would be neat if we could and would put an end to the inevitable rock, paper, scissors battle that ensues.

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Ooh, ooh, wait...

 

If he was FIRST to LOG ONLINE, then he could get a "FTL" star on his sticker chart, too!

 

There are a bunch of morons here who log like that... Like, dude, wow. That's impressive duh44.gif

 

 

michelle

 

Hold it..... we get STICKER CHARTS? Where's Mine? Probably only for Platinum members! [:ninja:]

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Being new I have a question about the proper etiquette for claiming first to find.

My son and I often cache together and are occasionally lucky enough to be able to be the first to a cache. We usually take turns on being FTF but can we both claim it?

That would be neat if we could and would put an end to the inevitable rock, paper, scissors battle that ensues.

 

the real deal is that there's simply no tally for FTF. if you both go hunting, sure. you can both "claim" it. it makes little difference if you mention it in the paper log or online. usually the only one who cares is the first finder anyway, and even some of those don't care.

 

there's nothing to stop you from writing "i was here with my son and we found it first", although i wouldn't mention it anyway. most people do though, whether or not knight2000 and i think it's tacky. *sigh* the way of the world.

 

it is common practice among my friends (and this is handy whether it's a FF or not) that the first one to spot the box gets first pick of the contents. i usually have to sign for my friends anyway, since they conveniently forget how to write their names. last night i split a pair of first finds with crashco. we each got one prize. he logged, but the last time i wrote a log there was still snow on the ground. by the time i get around to it, nobody will care.

 

do not be confused with the situation of the OP. if you are hunting WITH someone and you're dividing the labor, there's no reason you can't consider it a joint find.

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BTW... is the OP still checking in on this post? I wonder...

 

Yes I am and I think its funny.

 

dude, we're not laughing WITH you, we're laughing AT you.

 

thuderously and riotously. and it is even funnier since you persist. i'll recap the action in case anybody missed it.

 

simulated dialogue:

 

COOL
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COOL

 

yeah, i knew you were the type.

 

or you would be if you were real. you're such a broad caricature that i can't figure out if you're even real. like a joke that keeps unfolding.

 

dance, little person, dance! we wish to see more of your bizarre behavior.

 

i can learn from you:

 

i'll lend you my pen if you knock 20 miles an hour off of that speeding ticket.

i'll lend you my pen if i can copy your termpaper.

i'll lend you my pen if you make a check out to me.

 

i'll lend you my pen if i can wear this here hat and call myself emperor of the world.

 

are you always this unerringly amusing? should i start reading all your logs? if i send you a certificate delcaring you grand master of all that is and first finder and all caches that are, have been, or are yet to be, will you autograph it so i can raffle it off at an event? you can use my pen.

 

oooh, i can just feel it; you are about to become a verb.

 

confidentially between you, me, and the carpet, FDNA is just boring, boring, boring. she provides us with nothing to lampoon. nothing brightens my day like a laughingstock, and until you showed up the joke was starting to fade.

 

you're the dimwitted neighborchild who pees on the neighbor's flowers and then asks the neighborhood to applaud. you never understand why people start to say they have to "go have a lewisclan", but you feel proud and happy each time they point and laugh. of course you respond by behaving more erratically, and so on.

 

'scuse me. i have to go.

 

look! a door! i'm the first to find it!

 

zounds! the bathroom! i declare that i'm FTF!

 

i'm going to go have a lewisclan.

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COOL

 

if i send you a certificate delcaring you grand master of all that is and first finder and all caches that are, have been, or are yet to be, will you autograph it so i can raffle it off at an event? you can use my pen.

 

What do you think you could get for that? :ninja:
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COOL

 

if i send you a certificate delcaring you grand master of all that is and first finder and all caches that are, have been, or are yet to be, will you autograph it so i can raffle it off at an event? you can use my pen.

 

What do you think you could get for that? :ninja:

 

not much, probably. i was thinking booby prize. you know, the joke entry.

 

people usually like to spend their money on someone that matters.

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COOL

 

if i send you a certificate delcaring you grand master of all that is and first finder and all caches that are, have been, or are yet to be, will you autograph it so i can raffle it off at an event? you can use my pen.

 

What do you think you could get for that? :ninja:

 

 

people usually like to spend their money on someone that matters.

OH Man you got me I think I'll go cry. :)
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OH Man you got me I think I'll go cry. :ninja:

 

well, even the biggest object of derision becomes old after a while.

 

you bore me, little person. i do not feel there is anything new in this joke.

 

bring on the dancing bears!

Edited by flask
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well, even the biggest object of derision becomes old after a while.

 

you bore me, little person. i do not feel there is anything new in this joke.

 

bring on the dancing bears!

Crazy...I bore you yet you have like 12 posts in this thread starting this morning.For boring you, you sure have taken an intrest.6'3" 230 lbs, I'm not little. Oh wait that was supposed to be an insult :ninja:

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OH Man you got me I think I'll go cry. :ninja:

 

well, even the biggest object of derision becomes old after a while.

 

you bore me, little person. i do not feel there is anything new in this joke.

 

bring on the dancing bears!

 

If it bores you so much, why do you continue to post in this utterly ridiculous thread.

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