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GC maintenance


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I'm planning my first major GC for sometime this August.

It will be in the eastern Sierra Nevada on a somewhat well traveled and known hiking trail but would still be considered in the BC. I've checked and so far and the next nearest GC appears to be miles away.

I plan on taking the great advice I received here and will use an ammo can so it will be sturdy enough to withstand some severe conditions.

It will be well stocked with some whimsical as well as useful items appropriate to the location.

The location is almost 300 miles from my home and several hours drive. Not exactly close but we have been going there every year for the past few years and we will continue to go there in the foreseeable future. Our visits are just for the day which involves a hike, a stop for lunch and some trout fishing

 

Here's my question(s):

How much maintenance am I expected to do? I'll only be able to get to once a year.

Are seasonal GC's OK?

Planting it in August leaves a smallish window of opportunity since the location is inaccessible in winter except to the most hardy XC skiers and even then they would need a shovel to get to it in the winter. This would really be accessible late spring to early fall.

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Remote caches in seldom visited areas seldom if ever need cache maintance. Once a year for the type of location you are describing sounds reasonable. Your reviewer is the one you have to sell.

 

My remote caches have yet to have a problem. I can't say the same for my urban caches.

 

One cache 22 of a location such as yours is that while you may get the notice of a problem from a finder who found it when it's available, it could be they did that just after you were there for your annual visit. You may need to make a second trip, or you could have so many things that demand your time in your life that you can't get back until the next summer.

 

A lot of cachers experience a lot of angst when they think about a cache that needs maintance and someone just is not willing to dump all of the real world demand on their time and maintain it pronto. They tend to forget that you may be attending a wedding, taking their wife on a vacation she's been looking forward too, helping your kids off to college, or fixing the plumbing so you have toilets that actually flush. Such is life.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Help me out here...

What do you mean by "Your reviewer is the one you have to sell."

 

The thing about the location I have in mind is that it's a place of natural beauty and although it's not a desolate location most people who go there range from dedicated hikers/back packers to day hikers and fisherfolk who really enjoy the area.

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Help me out here...

What do you mean by "Your reviewer is the one you have to sell."

 

He means the cache reviewer will need to be convinced that you are able to do the necessary cache maintenance. With no previous history of maintaining caches, and planting one 300+ miles from home, the reviewer might be unwilling to publish your cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#maint

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Help me out here...

What do you mean by "Your reviewer is the one you have to sell."

 

He means the cache reviewer will need to be convinced that you are able to do the necessary cache maintenance. With no previous history of maintaining caches, and planting one 300+ miles from home, the reviewer might be unwilling to publish your cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#maint

Also, with only 2 finds to your name, you don't have a history of caching in that area, or of caching at all. A great many people get all gung ho after their first few finds, then those real life things RK mentioned get in the way and they don't have time to keep geocaching. They certainly don't have time to make a 600 mile round trip to fix a problem.

Seriously, many of us make some dumb mistakes hiding our first cache or 2. I remember one of mine I accidentally transposed some digits when I posted it. The listed coords were something like 20 miles off. Lucky it was close by and I could go take new readings the next day and not have to wait a year.

The Topanga Canyon area is quite nice. Hide some caches close to home to get started.

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Seasonal caches can exist but need to be in place for a minimum of 3 consecutive months.

 

Without much history to go on, it is unlikely a reviewer is going to be ok with your cache. You state that you can only check on it once per year. No matter where they are planted you are expected to be able to maintain them within a reasonable time period like 4 weeks or so when there is a problem. Or have a local that is able to check on them.

 

Sounds like a fine cache and an area i'd like to visit but you need to convince your local reviewer that you could take care of it if the need arises.

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Here's my question(s):

How much maintenance am I expected to do? I'll only be able to get to once a year.

Are seasonal GC's OK?

Planting it in August leaves a smallish window of opportunity since the location is inaccessible in winter except to the most hardy XC skiers and even then they would need a shovel to get to it in the winter. This would really be accessible late spring to early fall.

So if someone reports a problem with your cache a week after your visit, it's going to be a full year before you can check on it? Doesn't seem like the best of ideas to me.

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Hmmm...good points, all.

I'm compiling a list of cool stuff to put in it so maybe that'll help. That ammo can that you guys have talked me into getting is going be popular.

A far as permission goes, the national forests are big enough to hold GC's without impacting it in any negative way. Besides, isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission? I really consider myself a good steward of public lands. I practice principles of Leave No Trace practically everywhere I go.

I think I'm grown up enough to get coord's right.

Topanga is loaded with GC's but I guess a few more won't hurt.

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A far as permission goes, the national forests are big enough to hold GC's without impacting it in any negative way. Besides, isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission?

:angry:

 

Make sure you read the guidelines which you must agree to before submitting a cache for review.

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Hmmm...good points, all.

I'm compiling a list of cool stuff to put in it so maybe that'll help. That ammo can that you guys have talked me into getting is going be popular.

A far as permission goes, the national forests are big enough to hold GC's without impacting it in any negative way. Besides, isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission? I really consider myself a good steward of public lands. I practice principles of Leave No Trace practically everywhere I go.

I think I'm grown up enough to get coord's right.

Topanga is loaded with GC's but I guess a few more won't hurt.

 

 

If you look in my profile, you'll see I own quite a few caches in the Eastern Sierra and one in the Western Seirra.

 

 

#1 If your cache is in a designated wilderness area, don't even bother asking.

 

 

#2 If you have no one local that geocaches to maintain your caches in your absence, don't even bother asking.

 

 

If you can answer "Yes," to either of those items, you should reconsider placing the cache. Your local Ca. reviewers have enough to deal with without having to convince you that your placement wasn't a good idea.

 

 

NOW, if you just hafta place that cache in some spot you've already picked out, you can list it on another geocache listing service (terracaching.com or navicache.com) , OR you can list it yourself. I have several caches listed both ways. They were all placed with common sense and safety considerations, but they would not meet the criteria to be listed on this website. There's more than one lane on the geocaching highway. :angry:

Edited by Snoogans
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A far as permission goes, the national forests are big enough to hold GC's without impacting it in any negative way. Besides, isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission?

:angry:

 

Make sure you read the guidelines which you must agree to before submitting a cache for review.

I don't understand, most National forest lands do not have any special requirement for a cache. Then you have adequate permission because you don't need to get anything explicit. Big difference between explicit and adequate.

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A far as permission goes, the national forests are big enough to hold GC's without impacting it in any negative way. Besides, isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission?

:angry:

 

Make sure you read the guidelines which you must agree to before submitting a cache for review.

I don't understand, most National forest lands do not have any special requirement for a cache. Then you have adequate permission because you don't need to get anything explicit. Big difference between explicit and adequate.

I dont know where they are placing the cache. If they said, then i didnt notice cause it is all the same to me. I do think that they should read the guidelines before submitting a cache.

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Snoogans' sez:

If you look in my profile, you'll see I own quite a few caches in the Eastern Sierra and one in the Western Seirra.

____

 

Wow It looks like you have 3 pages of caches and a whole lot more information than I need to know.

But seriously, I appreciate the lead to the other cache web sites.

 

Does anyone here like pie in the sky?

________________________

 

Edit by TopangaHiker

I did some more searching Snoogans, and it looks like you and I go to a lot of the same places in the eastern Sierra.

Edited by TopangaHiker
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A far as permission goes, the national forests are big enough to hold GC's without impacting it in any negative way. Besides, isn't it easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission?

:angry:

 

Make sure you read the guidelines which you must agree to before submitting a cache for review.

I don't understand, most National forest lands do not have any special requirement for a cache. Then you have adequate permission because you don't need to get anything explicit. Big difference between explicit and adequate.

I dont know where they are placing the cache. If they said, then i didnt notice cause it is all the same to me. I do think that they should read the guidelines before submitting a cache.

While most National Forests don't have a geocaching policy or are cache friendly this is not always the case. In particular designated wilderness areas, ecologically sensitive areas, and areas with archeological or historic artifacts are usually off-limits to geocaching. It is best to check with the local rangers to see if your cache is in an off-limit area if you are not certain. Based on Snoogan's post above it seems that wilderness areas are off-limits in the eastern Sierra Neveda.

 

Just in case the OP decides to place a cache closer to home - Topanga State Park is very cacher friendly - although some trails are beginning to get saturated so you might want to avoid these (and I'm not telling where the intermediate waypoints of my multi are B) ) The Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy generally allows caches but be careful not to place them in closed areas or too far off the trails. Caches have been remove by rangers for being in sensitive area and there could be a fine for both the hider and anyone caught looking for the cache. National Park service administered areas are off limits to caches. Many areas are private land. Be sure to be aware of possible no tresspassing signs. Don't place caches off trail in private areas even where is an easement for the trail unless you can find out where to get permission. The OPs home area such a hodgepodge of permission needed or not that the reviewers often get confused.

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Just in case the OP decides to place a cache closer to home - Topanga State Park is very cacher friendly - although some trails are beginning to get saturated so you might want to avoid these (and I'm not telling where the intermediate waypoints of my multi are :angry: ) The Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy generally allows caches but be careful not to place them in closed areas or too far off the trails. Caches have been remove by rangers for being in sensitive area and there could be a fine for both the hider and anyone caught looking for the cache. National Park service administered areas are off limits to caches. Many areas are private land. Be sure to be aware of possible no tresspassing signs. Don't place caches off trail in private areas even where is an easement for the trail unless you can find out where to get permission. The OPs home area such a hodgepodge of permission needed or not that the reviewers often get confused.

 

I appreciate the advice but Topanga SP is sort of, how would I say, pedestrian to me at this point.

There's no shortage of caches there and I'm sure the number will grow.

Don't get me wrong, I love TSP and am on a first name basis with some of the rangers there but that place is getting trampled on.

 

However, I am aware of a lot Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy land which is ripe for cache placement.

Edited by TopangaHiker
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We only have a few caches to our name. One is at my place of employment. I typically check it once a week. Another is placed at our local library. We check that one typically once a week. One other cache we have is in a nearby city park. We usually check it out about every two months. A bit obsessive I know but I like to stay on top of things. Being our first set of caches, the types of containers/hides, and the frequency of muggles sets my mind at ease to check on occassion.

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A lot of cachers experience a lot of angst when they think about a cache that needs maintance and someone just is not willing to dump all of the real world demand on their time and maintain it pronto. Such is life.

 

RK raises a good point here. I have a few that I have to budget the time to check on. They're a bit far afield, but there were special reasons for those locations. Four DNFs, and I waste a day when I could be geocaching to travel the 35 miles each way to discover that the cache is exactly where I hid it!

 

I hid two caches in Maine. Only 317 miles away! But, they're in my sister's name, and she maintains them. :angry: (Mainers have not yet forgiven me for them, but they're 317 miles away.) (Yes, my sister is a geocacher!)

 

I (and my reviewer) know the area that I'm able to sustain for maintenance. Forty or fifty mile radius is it! (Some exemptions may exist.) If I can't find good place in that radius ... 150 miles away, visited once a year? That's a vacation cache.

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A lot of cachers experience a lot of angst when they think about a cache that needs maintance and someone just is not willing to dump all of the real world demand on their time and maintain it pronto. Such is life.

 

RK raises a good point here. I have a few that I have to budget the time to check on. They're a bit far afield, but there were special reasons for those locations. Four DNFs, and I waste a day when I could be geocaching to travel the 35 miles each way to discover that the cache is exactly where I hid it!

 

I hid two caches in Maine. Only 317 miles away! But, they're in my sister's name, and she maintains them. :angry: (Mainers have not yet forgiven me for them, but they're 317 miles away.) (Yes, my sister is a geocacher!)

 

I (and my reviewer) know the area that I'm able to sustain for maintenance. Forty or fifty mile radius is it! (Some exemptions may exist.) If I can't find good place in that radius ... 150 miles away, visited once a year? That's a vacation cache.

 

I like the way that sounds: A vacation cache.

Very cool. Maine is awesome as well.

Among other things Maine is famous for I like to visit the old cemeteries.

Go ahead, call me weird.

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I (and my reviewer) know the area that I'm able to sustain for maintenance. Forty or fifty mile radius is it! (Some exemptions may exist.) If I can't find good place in that radius ... 150 miles away, visited once a year? That's a vacation cache.

 

I like the way that sounds: A vacation cache.

Very cool. Maine is awesome as well.

You may be misunderstanding Harry D. Vacation caches are not allowed, as they can't be adequately maintained. He's implying (I think) that he wouldn't place a cache 150 miles away because it would be equivalent to a vacation cache and not maintainable.

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...I (and my reviewer) know the area that I'm able to sustain for maintenance. Forty or fifty mile radius is it! (Some exemptions may exist.) If I can't find good place in that radius ... 150 miles away, visited once a year? That's a vacation cache.

 

It's not the miles. There are spots across town that I don't visit more than once a year if even that. They are only vacation caches when they are outside my normal territory.

 

That said I've even placed some outside what I consider my normal territory that I still manage to maintain better than my help. That's saying something considering my stand on maintance is that anything less than a year is just fine.

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Here's my question(s):

How much maintenance am I expected to do? I'll only be able to get to once a year.

Are seasonal GC's OK?

Planting it in August leaves a smallish window of opportunity since the location is inaccessible in winter except to the most hardy XC skiers and even then they would need a shovel to get to it in the winter. This would really be accessible late spring to early fall.

So if someone reports a problem with your cache a week after your visit, it's going to be a full year before you can check on it? Doesn't seem like the best of ideas to me.

The world needs more than urban caches. Nobody but an unemployed cache bum with a healthy bank account and no family worries would ever have time to maintain caches according to how some would like it done.

 

I would love to have nothing better to do than jump in my Jeep with a cooler and sleeping bag and maintain caches all day posting my efforts on my wirelss internet enabled latpop.. Other obligations get in the way.

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It sounds like you are doing a pretty good job of talking yourself out of placing this geocache.

 

Your ideal spot sounds like a place where serious hikers and skiers would go only not more casual outsdoorsman or geocacher. Those who got there may not have room for swag to carry in or out, so why place an actual container. I have seen remote geocaches become hybernation caves for any unfortunate travel bugs that is left there.

 

Would setting up a Waymark be better for the location?

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depends where your cache is and what it is again my first geocache was just a icecream container and people said it would break at winter but it dint then people said it ether was get all wet or be dragged away by a flood and it seen winters and flood after flood and stil lasted so it depends where the cache is and whet it is so if it is a good container and a good place where it will not be muggled or ran a way with a flood

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The world needs more than urban caches. Nobody but an unemployed cache bum with a healthy bank account and no family worries would ever have time to maintain caches according to how some would like it done.

 

I'm neither unemployed, nor do I have a healthy bank account (let's just say it's got really bad cold) and I have plenty of family worries, yet I don't recall any complaints about my cache maintenance practices.

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Let me ask this:

Does it ever happen that different people partner-up on maintaining a GC?

 

I'm thinking that I could get to it once or twice a year and someone else who lives in the area could go to it as well.

Is this considered bad taste?

I'm willing to create a desirable cache in a great area. It's just not close enough to me to go to at the drop of a hat.

Maybe we could have a reciprocity agreement.

You help me and I help you.

 

I'll put this out:

Is there anyone in the Mammoth/Crowley area who wants to help maintain a GC with me?

In return you plant one near me somewhere in the Santa Monica mountains and I help you maintain it.

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Let me ask this:

Does it ever happen that different people partner-up on maintaining a GC?

 

I'm thinking that I could get to it once or twice a year and someone else who lives in the area could go to it as well.

Is this considered bad taste?

I'm willing to create a desirable cache in a great area. It's just not close enough to me to go to at the drop of a hat.

Maybe we could have a reciprocity agreement.

You help me and I help you.

 

I'll put this out:

Is there anyone in the Mammoth/Crowley area who wants to help maintain a GC with me?

In return you plant one near me somewhere in the Santa Monica mountains and I help you maintain it.

Actually a great idea. I left a cache in my parent's hometown even though I only visit 1 or 2 times a year but my folks do maintenance for me. Mom even visits once a month or so to add good swag and just to read the logs. She is having a blast with it.

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Let me ask this:

Does it ever happen that different people partner-up on maintaining a GC?

 

I'm thinking that I could get to it once or twice a year and someone else who lives in the area could go to it as well.

Is this considered bad taste?

I'm willing to create a desirable cache in a great area. It's just not close enough to me to go to at the drop of a hat.

Maybe we could have a reciprocity agreement.

You help me and I help you.

 

I'll put this out:

Is there anyone in the Mammoth/Crowley area who wants to help maintain a GC with me?

In return you plant one near me somewhere in the Santa Monica mountains and I help you maintain it.

Actually a great idea. I left a cache in my parent's hometown even though I only visit 1 or 2 times a year but my folks do maintenance for me. Mom even visits once a month or so to add good swag and just to read the logs. She is having a blast with it.

 

Thanks, I thought it could work.

Any takers?

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The world needs more than urban caches. Nobody but an unemployed cache bum with a healthy bank account and no family worries would ever have time to maintain caches according to how some would like it done.

 

I'm neither unemployed, nor do I have a healthy bank account (let's just say it's got really bad cold) and I have plenty of family worries, yet I don't recall any complaints about my cache maintenance practices.

 

From forum discussions you also specialize in caches that seldom if ever need any maintiance. You also take the time to use good containers making certain issues less likely to come up to begin with. However if you were targeted and your caches all started coming up missing or just had a run of bad luck with your caches then your personal life, obligations, and work would likely stand in the way. You may or may not get complaints at that time but it may take more time than some would like to see to plan out your trip.

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I'll put this out:

Is there anyone in the Mammoth/Crowley area who wants to help maintain a GC with me?

In return you plant one near me somewhere in the Santa Monica mountains and I help you maintain it.

 

 

I wish I could help you personally.

 

 

There some locals who are very cool that might be able to help if you contact them. Jessie Girl, Flatiron, & ATV Explorers to name a few. I've met them at event's I've hosted there. There's also Rockbyter who has found a bunch of my caches in the area.

 

 

Mammoth/Crowly? Are you planning a hide along McGee Creek or Rock Creek? I'm just guessing based on your earlier posts.

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I'll put this out:

Is there anyone in the Mammoth/Crowley area who wants to help maintain a GC with me?

In return you plant one near me somewhere in the Santa Monica mountains and I help you maintain it.

 

 

I wish I could help you personally.

 

 

There some locals who are very cool that might be able to help if you contact them. Jessie Girl, Flatiron, & ATV Explorers to name a few. I've met them at event's I've hosted there. There's also Rockbyter who has found a bunch of my caches in the area.

 

 

Mammoth/Crowly? Are you planning a hide along McGee Creek or Rock Creek? I'm just guessing based on your earlier posts.

 

I'm not telling but let's just say it'll be somewhere between June Lake and Rovana.

Anyway, thanks for the leads.

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I'm not telling but let's just say it'll be somewhere between June Lake and Rovana.

Anyway, thanks for the leads.

 

 

Well then, I guessed pretty good. Huh? :P

 

 

You'll really like the cachin' in that area. Some of the best cachin' in the world from my limited experience in 24 states an 3 countries.

 

 

I'll be totally bummed if you don't try for at least one of my caches while you're there. They range from real easy to extra hard. The best ones of mine are near Lee Vining though. A Claustrophobic's Nightmare & The Fortress of Solitude get stellar reviews.

 

 

Here's a guy with ONLY 22,000+ finds that really enjoyed it:

 

7f898b25-8f0d-4101-a1c6-6eab4e7139d8.jpg

Edited by Snoogans
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I'm not telling but let's just say it'll be somewhere between June Lake and Rovana.

Anyway, thanks for the leads.

 

 

Well then, I guessed pretty good. Huh? :P

 

 

You'll really like the cachin' in that area. Some of the best cachin' in the world from my limited experience in 24 states an 3 countries.

 

 

I'll be totally bummed if you don't try for at least one of my caches while you're there. They range from real easy to extra hard. The best ones of mine are near Lee Vining though. A Claustrophobic's Nightmare & The Fortress of Solitude get stellar reviews.

 

 

Here's a guy with ONLY 22,000+ finds that really enjoyed it:

 

7f898b25-8f0d-4101-a1c6-6eab4e7139d8.jpg

 

Yeah, very good guess but then it's not like I didn't leave you a bunch of clues.

Of course I'm going to hunt for some your caches. It's like you have a monopoly on ML. How many times a year do you go there anyway?

We go 6 0r 7 times a year. I wish I had a place in ML. I love the entire area.

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I only get up there once or twice a year. My Sister and Brother-in-law (MtnFrog & Camel) live there. Now that we have maintenance logs, I make sure I log one every time I visit one of my caches. I have only needed Camel to check on a cache twice in 4 years. The rest I have done myself.

 

 

If you get up there that often, I don't think you will have a problem, but it's best to have a local to help.

 

 

My trick to hiding in that area is every cache I hide is networked into a route I take while I'm there. That way I can maintain more than one cache per outing. I did a marathon maintenance tour last summer hitting ALL of my caches in the area in a couple days. It was over 200 miles driving and over $40 in gas. My caches range from just north of Bishop (Tough Nuts in the House of the Devil) above the Sherwin Grade to just off the Conway Grade north of Lee Vining. (The Monoville Hunter's Cache) They also range in elevation from just below 6,000 feet to above 10,000 feet. That's a lot of ground to cover.

 

 

Placement is the key. Only two of my caches in the area have been muggled. A good placement will save you a lot of trouble and having to bug the person helping you to go check.

Edited by Snoogans
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I have had problems with my remote caches because I am not close enough. I solved most of it by using ammo boxes instead of Rubbermaid to keep the sharp teeth animals off. That really helps. I also try to make sure it will not be happened upon. I return at least once a year to remove the junk trade items and refresh with good stuff. I want my finder to get something useful and encourage others as well. A Quality container makes Maintenence much less needed.

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I have had problems with my remote caches because I am not close enough. I solved most of it by using ammo boxes instead of Rubbermaid to keep the sharp teeth animals off. That really helps. I also try to make sure it will not be happened upon. I return at least once a year to remove the junk trade items and refresh with good stuff. I want my finder to get something useful and encourage others as well. A Quality container makes Maintenence much less needed.

 

What is considered junk trade items? And what is good stuff?

 

(getting my education before I dig in) :ph34r:

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What is considered junk trade items? And what is good stuff?

 

(getting my education before I dig in) :ph34r:

Good Stuff: like new items - handmade items - dollar store items - gold bars :ph34r:

 

Junk Stuff: Business cards - broken Happy Meal Toys - Used Junk Drawer items, rusty stuff, junky golf balls etc.......

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