What good is paperless without maps?

[+spikerek]

I have been reading a lot about paperless geocaching using a Palm PDA. It will store all the cache coordinates, cache listings, hints and latest log entries. I can't see how this would help me in geocaching without a mapping system. When I look up new caches, I look at the Google maps so I can figure out how to get to the proper location so I can start the hunt. If I went paperless, how could I tell which area (i.e. park, playground, or part of town) the cache is located in by just the info on the PDA. I must be missing something or else I am pretty stupid.

[+StarBrand]

I didn't use any kind of map on about 75% of the caches I have found. Much of the fun to me is to see that there is a cache 5 to 10 miles away and then just trusting luck, my GPS and fun exploring to find my way close and then go find it. Gets interesting in urban areas I have never visited but I get to see a lot of town.

 

Maps aren't required - just a sense of adventure.

[+Confucius' Cat]

Well, you COULD consider finding the right road with just an arrow pointing "as the crow flies" to be part of the game. I did it this way exclusively for a couple of years and it really wasn't all that difficult for most caches. Once in a while I would go for one that had just one way in and it wasn't obvious from any surrounding roads, but those were rare.

 

Even with a map system like I now use (Street Atlas USA on laptop with their USB GPS) those caches are often still obscure. Of course Google Earth might be helpful in those cases, but even then not necessarily so.

 

You CAN get SAUSA for the Palm if you like... I tried it on my Pocket PC but it is pretty much worthless IMO.

 

It is kinda funny when you think about it, "WAH! I don't got a map!" I've got an arrow pointing the direction to go, a numerical bearing, distance, ground speed, ETE, ETA, off-course indicator and probably various alarms- just on the basic $100 GPS; HOW ON EARTH AM I EVER GONNA FIND THAT DARN CACHE!!?

 

Honestly, I don't see how a PDA is much advantage over just pre-loading coordinates in the basic GPS other than having a place to store the hint. But that's just me.

 

I have GSAK on my laptop too. The only thing I can't do "paperless" is look at the hint after leaving the car; generally no big deal to me.

[+T F T C]

Use Google Maps on your PDA. Or import the maps as images to your PDA. Or just import the directions (no map images) to your PDA.

[+TrailGators]

Maps are the one thing that I prefer to have on paper. I'll often print out a few pages of the areas that I'm going to put in my pack (especially if it's an area not I'm not familiar with).

[+biosearch]

I have my maps loaded on the GPS (Mapsend Topo 3D), so that takes care of the maps. If I manage to get outside of the detailed maps that I have loaded on the gps I simply rely on the base maps and do a bit more driving and turning down wrong roads (drives the wife, who drives, nuts, but heh, everything I do does...).

 

I purchased an older pda off of eBay for about twenty bucks including shipping. Cachemate loads a lot of stuff. You get the location data, description, hints, last five logs, a place to log the cache and an overview screen.

 

Lets say you our out, perhaps took a drive to visit a relative, and as usual your relative told you they would be in and arn't. So why waste the trip. I can pull out my gps, see what caches are in the area, open the pda and get all of the information for that cache. Don't need to go back to the computer, etc.

 

The log feature allows you to log start time, end time, what you took, what you left, TB's, etc.

 

You can organize the caches by found, not found, owned, cache type, etc.

 

And all of this can be loaded from your queries.

 

And you can help save a tree by saving the paper. Costs less in the long run.

 

Right now I have about 1,200 caches loaded on my pda and am planning on putting more on there, just in case I happen to be a couple of hundred miles away from home all of a sudden.

 

I take mine everywhere. And besides, pda's can be used for other things (date book, calendar, notepad, shopping lists, holiday schedules....) I'm winning one right now for $11.50 right now. It is an older one with very small amount of memory, but they work fine for caching. If I win it and your interested I'll toss this one your way for what it cost me and a buck or two for shipping. Total of about $12.00. Then you can try it and see if it is worth it for you.

 

I think that you would be well served by using a pda.

[+The Jester]

I have been reading a lot about paperless geocaching using a Palm PDA. It will store all the cache coordinates, cache listings, hints and latest log entries. I can't see how this would help me in geocaching without a mapping system. When I look up new caches, I look at the Google maps so I can figure out how to get to the proper location so I can start the hunt. If I went paperless, how could I tell which area (i.e. park, playground, or part of town) the cache is located in by just the info on the PDA. I must be missing something or else I am pretty stupid.

I think it's the GPSr. That's the device that tells you where the cache is, the PDA just holds the data the cache page has - which is helpful if you don't have total recall...

[+Team Noltex]

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't every cache page have MULTIPLE map view options for the cache? I've been paperless for a couple years, but it's pretty rare that I don't look at the cache page online prior to going to search for it.

 

Near the top of the page, at the end of the line that tells which state and country the cache is in, it reads "[viewmap]". Click on that and it takes you to a map of where the cache is.

 

Just above the logs it reads "For online maps..." and below it are TEN (10) different map options.

 

Directly across from the ten map listings and directly below the decryption key, there is a map about 2-3 inches square on most cache pages which also shows the location of the cache. Clicking on that takes you to mapquest for a more detailed and printable map.

 

Use any or all of these map options to show you which area to head to. Many of them will narrow the search down for you to within a few hundred feet or less.

 

You didn't say which GPS you have, but I can only assume from your question that it's one without any sort of basemap. Not sure why the manufactures would do this, since the only way to know where you are (the purpose of a GPS) is in relation to something else. With the exception of very basic level GPS's, most now have maps that include all of the major roads in the US. More detailed maps that inlude nearly every named roadway can be uploaded to many of them. If you have a very basic GPS and the lack of maps is frustrating, you may want to consider upgrading. A GPS with basemaps is usually only a few dollars more. If you have a PDA with the caches and a GPS unit with (minimally) basemaps, you won't even need to check the cache pages online. I'm sure you'd find your searches less frustrating and confusing.

 

Hope this helps.

[+phstars]

If I am going after a specific cache, I do look at the online map to get a feel for the area, or to get directions.

 

I use my PDA with cachemate. I load it up with a pocket query or a route, and if I'm out and about, and have a few minutes I whip out my PDA and GPSr. I do a search for the nearest caches. If it's within a mile or so, I feel confident that I can get to it.

 

I like the functionality of the PDA because I can carry over a thousand caches in there with all of the info that's on the cahce information page. I can also have up to 10 of the nearest comments. It would be a lot of paper to pack all of those around. That's what I like about the paperless caching.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Get a GPS with mapping, use the PDA to store the cache pages.

 

I use a Garmin GPSMap 60CSx and a Palm T5

 

Before leaving for a cache trip I get a PQ of the target area.

 

Tonight, well, last night now, I attended a Meet and Greet in a town 60 miles away.

 

I downloaded a Pocket Query of 500 caches centered on the event.

 

I open the Pocket Query with GSAK (Geocaching Swiss Army Knife),

 

Upload the 500 cache waypoints to my GPS,

 

Export the data from GSAK to CacheMate on my Palm.

 

Now I am ready to go caching!

 

I set a goto on my 60CSx for the event and it gives me street mapping and a route with turn-by-turn dieections.

 

After the event I use the Find Nearest feature to see what the closest cache is, and the maps take me to the nearest driving access point, then I park and use the arrow to navigate to the cache. If it's night-time I may look up the cache on my Palm to be sure it isn't in a closed park or something...most of the time I just select the nearest cache and head out, since I like all kinds.

 

If I can't find the cache, I whup out the Palm, read the description, read the hint, read the past logs, whatever I need.

 

When the cache is found I mark it as such on the GPS and the Palm. I make a note on the Palm about any TB I might take/leave, trades, coins I drop, the cache experience, whatever.

 

Repeat till done caching!

 

Set a goto for home and no matter where I am it guides me back home.

 

Synch the Palm to my PC and every cache I found (20 tonight) and all associated notes are transferred from CacheMate on the Palm to GSAK on the PC and can then be uploaded from GSAK to geocaching.com logs.

 

Simple, no muss, no fuss... and I have all I need to hunt any cache in the area - no need to pore over caches selecting targets and printing pages, and I have detailed maps of the whole state in my GPS.

 

No need for paper at all! I don't carry any kind of paper maps in the car; I no longer need them!

[+Midnight Cobra]

Did lewis and Clark have maps? Did Christopher Columbus have maps? Did Thomas Bros have maps? Ok, so I was reaching on the last one, but the point is that you are in an adventure game and if you don't take some time to investigate your cache listing then you're going to have to make some extra turns.

 

I have a great example from last week. Two FTF's came up in the wilderness after dark. I had just finished my job and found them online. I quickly search the google hybrid map and found the mostly likely trail. I was stuck in traffic trying to get there and decied to hit the side roads. Upon arrival at the start point, I grabbed my flashlight and my GPS which already had the cords inputted (manual input on the freeway). The cache was ENE .13, trail took me into the dark and .13 South, then .13 East and finally back going North. I was now closest to a cache that I had not planned on get. So I passed that up and headed to the second cache on my hit list, since it was now closer.

 

500 feet up the road I see a flashlight heading towards me and realize it must be a cacher. I yell out to the light which proceeded to dive into the nearest bushes. I ran to catch up and he already had the cache in hand, so no co-FTF tonight. Pacholik got both, but he took me over the other cache, so I could find it and then back to the one I had past up. So I got three for the night and some great company.

 

Now this is where my point comes in, Pacholik had headed out on a trail that seem to be the most direct. It took him to a view point and then it become a vague trail heading down the hill, 3/4 of the way down he realized he had dropped his blackberry and he to go back to find it. He then proceed back down the hill (part way on his butt) only to find barbed-wire fencing at the bottom and no access. He was 125 feet from the cache. He now had to bushwack back up to his car and start over using the right trail. That cost him 45 minutes and his walking stick which broke. Had I not been stuck in traffic, I would have had both FTFs and seen a flashlight bobbing up and down the hill.

 

I am completely paperless. My PDA has no maps nor does my GPS and that's just fine.

 

Midnight Cobra

 

Caching is like quicksand, the more you try to stop, the deeper in you get!

[+Kit Fox]

Half the adventure is finding the cache (sans maps). Of course it helps if you have detailed maps already installed in your gps like me The only time that I spend time using paper maps, are for back country caches requiring navigational skills above and beyond use of the GPS.

 

Most of the time, I export the waypoints from GSAK into "Nat Geo Topo" and research hinking routes that way. I mark waypoints of saddles, trailheads, most direct route, etc. I manually enter these points into my gps, and i'm ready to go.

 

I think cachers today are to reliant on google earth, what ever happened to entering coordinates, and finding the cache?

[+Renegade Knight]

My GPS has maps. So does my PDA. Mostly I use the computer at home to plan a cache day for a longer trip. I use the PDA for a cache day around town. I use the GPS maps all the time.

[+clockwise]

I've found over 100 caches and 95% of them were without a map. Give it a go mate and see what happens! Part of the fun is working out what street you're meant to be on.

[+NightPilot]

Ummmm..... yes, Christopher Columbus had maps. That's been pretty well proven. How accurate they were is another story, but he had maps.

[+jpred1]

I just recently started and I wouldnt want to imagine chasing caches without the topo map on my magellan 500.It stores all info on cache page that you usually print out with the execption of previous logs.I have hints in there also,so I open read if needed while at ground 0.

[+boda]

I, too, use the maps on my GPSr to find the way to the cache - and other places as well. Gasp!

 

I also like to use paper maps. I load the caches into Mapsource and then print out some broad area maps. I use these to see a larger picture of the caching area for planning purposes.

 

I have gone completely paperless at times, but for a day's caching, a couple simple wide-area maps of the area helps me a lot. We often use the map to assisst us in changing plans and routes during the day. The maps in the GPSr gets us to each location, but the "big picture" comes in handy as well.

[+TrailGators]

It all depends on what are are doing. When a group of us went up to Palm Springs a couple of years ago a buddy of mine plotted a large topo of the entire area. It was very cool and handy to have. Anyhow, having this map allowed the entire group to see the areas and the routes that we planned on taking. It was almost like a battle plan, but it was fun to go from one trail in one part of Palm Springs to next area using this map. Of course, when you are on trails the maps on your GPS don't do you much good anyhow.

 

However, we have used this method for urban caching as well. For example, we've gone up to Orange County caching a few times. We'll start off caching in one green spot on the map and when we're done we'll pull out the map and look for the next green spot. It would be much more difficult to do this on our tiny GPS screen because there are so many caches that you can see the map when you are zoomed out to the same view that the paper map gives. Of course, once we figure out where we are headed to next, we auto-route to the first cache in that group using our GPS.

[+SGT red jeep]

I found my first 500 caches by printing the cache pages and manually loading the coords into my GPS. The map on the page was slightly helpful but more importantly, some of the caches almost can't be found without having the page along. After find #60 or so, I upgraded from a garmin etrex to a garmin vista C. That along with the Garmin Topo Maps gets me to the caches with just a highway map for a quick overall view of the area I am going into.

I found my 500th cache during a 3,000 mi trip from Alaska, through Canada, down through Washington and back to my house in Eastern Montana. I printed off about everything along the highway From Anchorage AK down to the US border entering Washington. Staying in a motel near Seattle, I had the wrong type of connection for my computer to hook up with their server. I used their lobby computer but only wrote down a few coords with some quick discriptions of some caches along my path. During a brief stay in Ft. Lewis WA, I spent some time at the library, only being allowed 30 to 60 minutes at a time, preparing for the next leg of my journey through Idaho and into Billings MT. At a motel in Billings I spent some more time in their lobby on one of two computers printing off about 20 local cache pages before feeling guilty enough to let someone else use the computer.

My point is, I spent a lot of time, using a lot of paper and ink, to print off pages of caches that I wasn't even sure I would be able to search for. Most of the way through Canada was about 40 below and covered in snow. As I would drive by the cache location along the highway, I would look out at the landscape after reading the discription "hidden in the rocks around the lake" and keep driving because of the 2ft of snow on top of the rocks.

Getting back to my point. Of the 500 caches I found, I probably printed off 1000 cache pages. I didn't mind the paper or ink but the amount of time spent searching and printing the pages was serously cutting into my caching time.

So when I got back home I bought a cheap PDA as suggested by the forums (handspring deluxe). With a number of well-placed queries I can cover a very large area and load at least 6,000 cache pages with only 8 meg of memory.

Back to the point, more time caching, more caching possibilities and less cost. After you get past the learning curve with the new equipment, the PDA can be a very valuable tool.

[+The Jester]

Anyone who depends on maps to get to a cache will eventually be disappointed. Some times *gasp* the maps are wrong. Most times (depending on the growth in the area) they are out-of-date, new roads don't show on "old" maps. Around here we have a few H.A.R.M.O.N.Y. (How Auto Routing May Only Nutify You) caches going in - these are caches where auto routing won't take you to the right spot to hunt the cache.

 

Most of the time I just use the arrow on the GPSr (non-mapping) and my own common sense. Some times I've used Streets & Trips on the laptop (and it's really fun to see where the roads really are compared to the map). I do use S&T a lot to plan the trips...

Edited March 7, 2007 by The Jester

[+geospyder]

I use an older Palm IIIxe. Needless to say it doesn't display maps. No biggie since I have a GPSr to point me the the right direction. The only problem I've run across going paperless is lack of pictures. There have been times when I've checked the GPSr and found a cache close by, started my search, been stumped, decided to look up the hint on the PDA only to find that the verbage refers to a picture or in the case of multis, serveral pictures. I've got to learn to read the description BEFORE I start the hunt

[+The Jester]

I use an older Palm IIIxe. Needless to say it doesn't display maps. No biggie since I have a GPSr to point me the the right direction. The only problem I've run across going paperless is lack of pictures. There have been times when I've checked the GPSr and found a cache close by, started my search, been stumped, decided to look up the hint on the PDA only to find that the verbage refers to a picture or in the case of multis, serveral pictures. I've got to learn to read the description BEFORE I start the hunt

This is the only reason I've even thought about getting a color PDA - but first that 60cx...

[+storm180]

I have been reading a lot about paperless geocaching using a Palm PDA. It will store all the cache coordinates, cache listings, hints and latest log entries. I can't see how this would help me in geocaching without a mapping system. When I look up new caches, I look at the Google maps so I can figure out how to get to the proper location so I can start the hunt. If I went paperless, how could I tell which area (i.e. park, playground, or part of town) the cache is located in by just the info on the PDA. I must be missing something or else I am pretty stupid.

 

I don't use a Palm I use an PocketPC but pretty much the same. I can load up my maps to the caches using backcountry navigator and get both topo and aeiral images along with the caches overlayed on top of it. I can also use Microsoft Pocket Streets to do the same also if I just want the roads.

 

However though I have a magellan 6000T in the vehicle with all my waypoints programmed into it and then I create a trip and it will take me by road as close as it can get to each cache. Then I use my handheld that also has topo maps loaded on it to get to location.

 

Some people have the road maps loaded into their handhelds which will direct them also. The PDA really saves on carrying around a bunch of paper with coords and hints and such and much easier to access rather than looking for that one piece of paper.

 

Storm180

[+spoongouge]

Well I have a Palm Lifedrive that I have been using Cachemate on but I've also been vexed by a lack of decent mapping software. The closest I can find that will give me what I want is this that will hopefully work for me.

As to the purists who say not to worry about having maps, they're partially right. Still, I am not always comfortable up on the wire without a net...

Edited March 7, 2007 by spoongouge

[+Berjr1]

Mapsource and a Garmin 60cs thats all you need. combine that with Cachemate you don need anything else but a pen

[+Alan2]

I have been reading a lot about paperless geocaching using a Palm PDA. It will store all the cache coordinates, cache listings, hints and latest log entries. I can't see how this would help me in geocaching without a mapping system. When I look up new caches, I look at the Google maps so I can figure out how to get to the proper location so I can start the hunt. If I went paperless, how could I tell which area (i.e. park, playground, or part of town) the cache is located in by just the info on the PDA. I must be missing something or else I am pretty stupid.

I have Mapopolis loaded in my PDA actually a Pocket PC. I then overlay all the cache point using gpxtomaplet. This way while I drive aropund I see all the cache icon. I can tap on the icon to get info about the cache. Or a can set it to automaticlly navigate to the street nearest the cache. Of course I can see where the caches are - in a park, or urban street, or whatever from the map.