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Neo_Geo

Any Pilots Using a C(S)x Model While Flying?

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The "certain area" just happens to be my house! I have circled around my house on 3 different occasions, and all three occasions, it shuts off before completing the circle! After landing, I get my unit, look at it and see that it's turned off.

 

I have flown with it on several other occasions and it tracks the entire flight with no problems. As long as I don't fly near my house, it stays on. I use this unit ALL THE TIME with out any problems! I take it to work, to the store, everywhere I go and I never have had any problems. The only difference is that I'm about 1,000 feet up, and I'm navigating "off road" whereas I'm usually "following road" or not navigating. It never shuts off in the car or while walking. I tried navigating "off road" to my house in the car coming home from work today, and it stayed on. One interesting fact is that it seems to happen within less than half a mile from the 39th parallel (twice north of the line and once just south of it). I've crossed this parallel at other locations east and west of the area without any problems.

 

Anyone else flying with these things having any similar issues?

 

Here are my tracks and where they end...

 

213d7346-c77a-4a89-abed-9c03c4b49506.jpg

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Looks like a line between map segments, and that could be the problem, with inconsistencies between map segments due to a map error, but I'm just pulling this idea out of a hat, since I have not had the problem with my Map60Cx

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I did experience suspected signal jamming in the area about a year ago with my 60C. The unit remained powered on and simply wouldn't receive any sgnals then.

 

This appears to be something entirely different - perhaps some sort of firmware glitch. I remember someone having a localized problem with a 60CS when they first came out - I think he was having something funky happen when he crossed over a bridge.

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Looks like a line between map segments, and that could be the problem, with inconsistencies between map segments due to a map error, but I'm just pulling this idea out of a hat, since I have not had the problem with my Map60Cx

Very astute GOT GPS! I think you're on to the problem. This map segment is common on both US Topo and City Select, and perhaps other mapping products, right at the 39th parallel. My guess Neo_Geo is if you fly farther west, or east, of your home along the 39th you will recreate this problem.

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I'm gonna try hiding all maps next time and just use the basemap. I'll report my findings upon my return.

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Gonna get expensive renting that plane just to test out your GPS... :-)

 

(or did you buy your plane?)

 

I'm gonna try hiding all maps next time and just use the basemap. I'll report my findings upon my return.

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Well... THIS time I did not navigate to my house. I just turned the unit on for tracking and I found the place without using the GPSr. It stayed on the entire flight. Hmmmmmmmmm...

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I'll bet Jimmy Carter has something to do with it. :D

Well, I wish he'd stop whatever he's doing because it did it again twice today! I think it has something to do with the map screen being displayed. Last time I simply turned the unit on and left it on the satellite page the whole time and it did not shut off at all. Today I selected the map page for display en route but did not use my GPSr to navigate to my house.

 

I guess I'll try hiding various maps (like I was gonna do earlier) next time out.

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Another idea perhaps. I wonder if you batteries are a little loose. When you circle your house you are probably turning a tighter radius than at any other time. This would increase your G-forces and also if your turn wasn't coordinated might be putting those forces at an obscure angle. Try making a tight turn somewhere not near your house and see if the unit turns off then.

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I think it's definitely the map segment. I recently experienced the same kind of shutdown with my 60CSx at a particular location over a period of several days. If I drive the route in my car it always shuts down (but didn't the one time I walked the path). Always in traveling the same direction, but only once in the reverse direction (that time I had autorouting on). After rereading this thread I checked the location, and it is right on an edge in CN NA V8. Non of the other map products I have have a segment border at this location. My 60CS which was along for the ride didn't shut down, but it still has CS NA V5 loaded; I've never gotten around to loading the latest maps on it.

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I think it's definitely the map segment. I recently experienced the same kind of shutdown with my 60CSx at a particular location over a period of several days. If I drive the route in my car it always shuts down (but didn't the one time I walked the path). Always in traveling the same direction, but only once in the reverse direction (that time I had autorouting on). After rereading this thread I checked the location, and it is right on an edge in CN NA V8. Non of the other map products I have have a segment border at this location. My 60CS which was along for the ride didn't shut down, but it still has CS NA V5 loaded; I've never gotten around to loading the latest maps on it.

 

Ditto here. I've had it power off randomly several times, so I started keeping track and it's always at/near a map segment. Must be something with them not lining up exactly and causing some kindof hard error.

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Another idea perhaps. I wonder if you batteries are a little loose. When you circle your house you are probably turning a tighter radius than at any other time. This would increase your G-forces and also if your turn wasn't coordinated might be putting those forces at an obscure angle. Try making a tight turn somewhere not near your house and see if the unit turns off then.

I'm using very gentle turns of only about 15º of bank when it happens. I've done many steep turns during my practice, hitting nearly 60º of bank one time, and it has never cut out then...

 

 

I think it's definitely the map segment. I recently experienced the same kind of shutdown with my 60CSx at a particular location over a period of several days. If I drive the route in my car it always shuts down (but didn't the one time I walked the path). Always in traveling the same direction, but only once in the reverse direction (that time I had autorouting on). After rereading this thread I checked the location, and it is right on an edge in CN NA V8. Non of the other map products I have have a segment border at this location. My 60CS which was along for the ride didn't shut down, but it still has CS NA V5 loaded; I've never gotten around to loading the latest maps on it.

I think probably so too.

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I think it's definitely the map segment. I recently experienced the same kind of shutdown with my 60CSx at a particular location over a period of several days. If I drive the route in my car it always shuts down (but didn't the one time I walked the path). Always in traveling the same direction, but only once in the reverse direction (that time I had autorouting on). After rereading this thread I checked the location, and it is right on an edge in CN NA V8. Non of the other map products I have have a segment border at this location. My 60CS which was along for the ride didn't shut down, but it still has CS NA V5 loaded; I've never gotten around to loading the latest maps on it.

Well, I was hoping that firmware 3.10 might have corrected this problem, but if anything it may have made it worse. I went back to my problem location today and the 60CSx shut down coming and going! Previousely it had shut down in one direction only, except for the one time I had routing enabled. (Incidently, the 60CS with CN NA V8 does not exhibit this problem).

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I'm not an expert at map segments, but as a programmer, I can say that unexpected data can cause hardware to shut down. And suddenly changing map segments could cause an error which would shut down the hardware.

I would lean towards the guess that this is a software bug, and it should be reported to Garmin.

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I'm not an expert at map segments, but as a programmer, I can say that unexpected data can cause hardware to shut down. And suddenly changing map segments could cause an error which would shut down the hardware.

I would lean towards the guess that this is a software bug, and it should be reported to Garmin.

I will retract my statement about 3.10 making things worse; too little data. I think the software is just less sensitive in one direction than the other; also it has never shut down while walking the same path either direction, just driving.

 

I guess I will send a bug report to Garmin (note my enthusiasm :D ) I haven't gotten a lot of feedback recently (read about a year) on bug reports sent. (Actually, I did get a response about a year ago on the lithium battery thing - response, but no fix :D )

Edited by Hertzog

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I agree with map segment issue remember we are still working with basically a computerized device so software issues can cause strange things. A software issue in a pc will cause it to restart or what us pc geeks refer to as a BSOD(Blue screen of Death).

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Well - I'm not pilot, but I've had similar situations. While on my atv, I've had it shut off on my for no reason. I don't think there are any map edges in this area, but I use it a lot while driving long distances and never a problem with mapedges in other areas (of canada). But you know, it would be mighty interesting to note that my very old Eagle Explorer GPS did the same thing in this same area several times, which was the reason I finally lost faith in it and bought the 60csx!!!! Will do more research...

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Well - I'm not pilot, but I've had similar situations. While on my atv, I've had it shut off on my for no reason. I don't think there are any map edges in this area, but I use it a lot while driving long distances and never a problem with mapedges in other areas (of canada). But you know, it would be mighty interesting to note that my very old Eagle Explorer GPS did the same thing in this same area several times, which was the reason I finally lost faith in it and bought the 60csx!!!! Will do more research...

Being on an ATV, your problem may be related to slightly loose-fitting rechargeable batteries getting bumped and losing contact with the circuit. This has been a known problem with Garmin units for years. You COULD send the unit back to Garmin for warranty repair... or if you want to try fixing it yourself, you just have to remove the batteries, carefully pry-out the metal contacts out toward the inner compartment - DON'T BREAK THE CONTACTS - then maybe wedge a little foam between the contact and where the contacts connect to the compartment to help keep the contacts sprung out toward the battery contacts.

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I'm not an expert at map segments, but as a programmer, I can say that unexpected data can cause hardware to shut down. And suddenly changing map segments could cause an error which would shut down the hardware.

I would lean towards the guess that this is a software bug, and it should be reported to Garmin.

I will retract my statement about 3.10 making things worse; too little data. I think the software is just less sensitive in one direction than the other; also it has never shut down while walking the same path either direction, just driving.

 

I guess I will send a bug report to Garmin (note my enthusiasm :) ) I haven't gotten a lot of feedback recently (read about a year) on bug reports sent. (Actually, I did get a response about a year ago on the lithium battery thing - response, but no fix :D )

 

I have only tried flying with my CSX, but on both occasions it turned off. I wonder if it has something to do with the speed? One was a comercial jet, the other a twin engine prop plane. I was using the world map on both occasions (travelling in Asia)

 

Brian

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I've used my 60Cx on many commercial flights without any problems, so I don't think it's a speed problem.

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I just took a flight today with my venture cx on an ifr flight in a cessna 172. I'm right around the 41st parallel and have no problems. I was practicing approaches into a regional airport but started from 2000 agl on the ils. Went down to about 250 agl on the option and back to the vor on the missed at 2000agl. Then did a circle to land and entered the pattern at around 800agl no problems at all around the 41st parallel. if you tell me how to get the track from my venture cx on to this forum, i'll post it, it's saved on my garmin

 

P.S. ~ Forgot to mention...

 

I don't know where you're located but the washington ADIZ consumes some of the 39th parallel. Just a thought <_<

Edited by ksuaviator

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I'm not an expert at map segments, but as a programmer, I can say that unexpected data can cause hardware to shut down. And suddenly changing map segments could cause an error which would shut down the hardware.

I would lean towards the guess that this is a software bug, and it should be reported to Garmin.

I agree with first part, although I would call it corrupt data. It could be the null map data causing a divide fault(divide by zero). Sometimes caused by a null pointer pointing to nowhere. I have done both a few times. The map segment boundary sounds suspicious to me. Maybe there is tiny blank area in between the segments???

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if you tell me how to get the track from my venture cx on to this forum, i'll post it, it's saved on my garmin

What I did above was download my tracks into MapSource, then took a screen-shot (Alt+PrtScr) and pasted the image into PhotoEditor (a product of earlier versions of the MS Office suite), but you can use the Windows Paint program in a pinch. I then uploaded the image to an image hosting site (PHOTOBUCKET.com). I then linked the image file from the hosting site into my message.

 

 

I don't know where you're located but the washington ADIZ consumes some of the 39th parallel. Just a thought :)

My house is a good 15nm outside of the ADIZ. And being that our GPSrs are simple handheld units (not aviation units), they don't know the ADIZ from a hole in the ground - so I doubt if it'd be related to that.

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I have a 60csx that did the same thing on a snowmobile. I have Topo and City-Nav. The map segment I crossed was in City-Nav, not Topo. I wonder if the speeds are a factor? I cross the same map segment everyday leaving my house by car or sled, never any problems. When it shut down I was 12 miles north on same map segment. It shut off in both directions on the same trail at well over 100 mph When I look at the tracks in Mapsource They just stop at the map edges I will be Geocaching the same area when the snow melts, I wonder if it will shut down @ 3 mph.

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I have a 60csx that did the same thing on a snowmobile. I have Topo and City-Nav. The map segment I crossed was in City-Nav, not Topo. I wonder if the speeds are a factor? I cross the same map segment everyday leaving my house by car or sled, never any problems. When it shut down I was 12 miles north on same map segment. It shut off in both directions on the same trail at well over 100 mph When I look at the tracks in Mapsource They just stop at the map edges I will be Geocaching the same area when the snow melts, I wonder if it will shut down @ 3 mph.

I definitely seems to be speed related; mine shuts down when I drive across a map segment, but never when walking the same path.

 

But 100 mph? Is that a typo are were you really doing that? Or was that in the track log? When I have this shutdown the last trackpoint is always a rogue point, back near an earlier trackpoint; I've never bothered to look at the the speed MapSource calculates for it, but it may be some weird speed.

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I have a 60csx that did the same thing on a snowmobile. I have Topo and City-Nav. The map segment I crossed was in City-Nav, not Topo. I wonder if the speeds are a factor? I cross the same map segment everyday leaving my house by car or sled, never any problems. When it shut down I was 12 miles north on same map segment. It shut off in both directions on the same trail at well over 100 mph When I look at the tracks in Mapsource They just stop at the map edges I will be Geocaching the same area when the snow melts, I wonder if it will shut down @ 3 mph.

I definitely seems to be speed related; mine shuts down when I drive across a map segment, but never when walking the same path.

 

But 100 mph? Is that a typo are were you really doing that? Or was that in the track log? When I have this shutdown the last trackpoint is always a rogue point, back near an earlier trackpoint; I've never bothered to look at the the speed MapSource calculates for it, but it may be some weird speed.

 

No typo there we were running 115-120 on this trail, made some great helmet cam videos that day!

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When mine was acting up only once was it when I was travelling @ high speed. The last time it happened I was probably doing 15 mph on a bush trail.

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While speed could be a factor, I think altitude might be one as well. I have flown over my house on several occasions recently at 2,000 feet (which is about 1,200 feet above ground level), and it did not shutdown on me then. The times that it did shutdown on me, I was at 2,500 feet (1,700 feet above ground). Then again, at the lower altitude I was making tighter (smaller) circles. Still, the tracks took me across the 39th parallel. I will have to compare recent tracks to the ones where it shutdown and see if there's any real difference.

Edited by Neo_Geo

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I contacted Garmin & got nowhere. The person I spoke to said it was probably a vibration issue since I was snowmobiling. I told her I had read on the internet where people (not sledders) also using 60Csx units & different software were having their units shut off when they crossed from 1 map to the next.

 

She did say there is an issue w/ 60Csx units "locking up" going from 1 map to the next.

 

If you are having this problem, contact Garmin.

 

Maybe if they see that a number of people are having the same problem they'll do something about it.

Edited by revrnd

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I got a replacement Legend Cx due to the rubber band coming off last November. I was back in the area near Hearst Ontario 2 weeks ago where the initial problems occurred. GPSr didn't miss a beat other than the odd time when the power cord vibrated out of the 12V outlet on the dash of my snowmobile.

 

Any other developments on this issue?

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I got a replacement Legend Cx due to the rubber band coming off last November. I was back in the area near Hearst Ontario 2 weeks ago where the initial problems occurred. GPSr didn't miss a beat other than the odd time when the power cord vibrated out of the 12V outlet on the dash of my snowmobile.

 

Any other developments on this issue?

The problem that started this thread was corrected by a software update some time back. This was of course a problem specific to the 60Cx/CSx models (probably the 76 "x" models as well).

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