Are Matchbooks OK to leave in a Cache?

[hooah75]

My wife and I are new to Geocaching (just bought a Garmin Foretrex 101 at Aldi grocery store on clearance for $70) and I thought it might be neat to leave one of our personalized brand new matchbooks that we have left over from our wedding from a few years back. I already put one in our first found cache, but on the hike back to the car we got to thinking that maybe it wasn't an allowed item. What do you all think? I thought they would make a neat item being that they are dated and personalized.... Would they even hold up in outdoors in a Tupperware box?

 

Thanks!

[+Bad_CRC]

nope.

[+Prime Suspect]

I wouldn't put anything in a cache that you wouldn't give to an unsupervised 8 year old.

[+briansnat]

I personally don't see a problem. Some people seem to think that some child is going to find the cache and use the matches to set the woods on fire. I guess I should stop leaving magnifying glasses in caches too. The way I see it, if young children are wandering around the woods unsupervised I think there is a bigger issue there than finding matches in a cache.

 

The guidelines specify lighters, but don't address matches. You can infer what you want from that.

[+Bad_CRC]

The guidelines specify lighters, but don't address matches. You can infer what you want from that.

 

hehe.

 

 

Personally, I wish knives were allowed. I pulled a knife out of a cache before, and it was much cooler than most of the broken mctoys.

[Donald, Daisy and Kids]

I personally don't see a problem. Some people seem to think that some child is going to find the cache and use the matches to set the woods on fire. I guess I should stop leaving magnifying glasses in caches too. The way I see it, if young children are wandering around the woods unsupervised I think there is a bigger issue there than finding matches in a cache.

 

The guidelines specify lighters, but don't address matches. You can infer what you want from that.

 

Well said Briansnat!! I fully agree!

 

I personally think that some of the geocaching rules are downright stupid! As a father of 7 plus another on the way, I wouldnt allow my children to be wandering around unsupervised in most of the geocache locations we have been to, and also with maturity comes the right to a higher level of responsibility.........

 

Personally, If my older kids were mature enough to be holding our $600 GPS, were out geocaching alone, and found a cache containing a knife/ lighter/ other banned items in a cache, I recon that would mean that I would also be able to trust them to be mature enough to use the item they retrieved with respect and maturity as well!

 

Its a really sad part of life these days that we are told what we can and cant do, simply because of a few who have done the wrong things, litigation etc, and we are not allowed to be our own person and think with our own brains!

[+BlueDeuce]

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

 

===============

Edited October 24, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+BlueDeuce]

I personally don't see a problem. Some people seem to think that some child is going to find the cache and use the matches to set the woods on fire. I guess I should stop leaving magnifying glasses in caches too. The way I see it, if young children are wandering around the woods unsupervised I think there is a bigger issue there than finding matches in a cache.

 

The guidelines specify lighters, but don't address matches. You can infer what you want from that.

 

Well said Briansnat!! I fully agree!

 

I personally think that some of the geocaching rules are downright stupid! As a father of 7 plus another on the way, I wouldnt allow my children to be wandering around unsupervised in most of the geocache locations we have been to, and also with maturity comes the right to a higher level of responsibility.........

 

Personally, If my older kids were mature enough to be holding our $600 GPS, were out geocaching alone, and found a cache containing a knife/ lighter/ other banned items in a cache, I recon that would mean that I would also be able to trust them to be mature enough to use the item they retrieved with respect and maturity as well!

 

Its a really sad part of life these days that we are told what we can and cant do, simply because of a few who have done the wrong things, litigation etc, and we are not allowed to be our own person and think with our own brains!

 

What's sad about my kids not being able to find lighters, fireworks, knives and alcohol in a cache?

Edited October 24, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[Donald, Daisy and Kids]

What's sad about my kids not being able to find lighters, fireworks, knives and alcohol in a cache?

 

deuce, did you read the post? I said Its a really sad part of life these days that we are told what we can and cant do, simply because of a few who have done the wrong things, litigation etc, and we are not allowed to be our own person and think with our own brains!

Meaning, everything in life now days: We are told how to do this, what to do with that, even in geocaching.......... all because some w*nker probably left a lighter that a serial arsonist used to set fire to a garbage bin or something like that!

 

We actually left a multi tool in our cache, we were told to remove it, because it had a knife blade.... Even though the blade was only 1.5 inches long, and as the edge of the ammo can we used for the cache was sharper than it.......

 

To me THAT is stupidity, its a toy that I WOULD (and do) allow my kids to have, and to use......... Like Briansnat said "I will stop leaving magnifying glasses" They can ALSO be used to cause a fire, come to think of it, so can some of them wind up cars that shoot the sparks out the back....... Imagine them and some of them cheap Mctoys, someone could burn down a forrest with them too!

 

Bring back rights and responsibilitys, make people think for themselves and their children/family's, and penalise them FOR NOT DOING SO, instead of making the rules FOR them and TELLING them what to do!

 

Thats MY $0.02 (including GST)

[+Bad_CRC]

 

Personally, If my older kids were mature enough to be holding our $600 GPS, were out geocaching alone, and found a cache containing a knife/ lighter/ other banned items in a cache, I recon that would mean that I would also be able to trust them to be mature enough to use the item they retrieved with respect and maturity as well!

 

while I agree that kids shouldn't be out geocaching alone, we all know that geocachers aren't the only ones who come across cache containers. Would be great for the hobby if some young kid came across a cache in the trees behind their yard with matches in it, burned down their building, killing someone in the process...

 

I don't care much either way, but I can see the point that leaving dangerous items out in a half million containers scattered all over the world isn't exactly a bright idea.

 

 

and personally, I'd rank a pack of soggy matches right below a broken mctoy on the list of things I don't care to see in caches anyway...

[+SUp3rFM & Cruella]

Matches, lighters, or whatever shouldn't be in a cache.

 

Placing a lighter, matches, etc in a cache could be dangerous (add even more danger if the cache is placed on some woods):

> If found by a muggle, he could easily feel encouraged to torch it (that has happened before).

> If found by children, those things would be "upgraded" to cool items, since they're on a "treasure" (that's how ours address geocaching).

> If there's some of these items on a cache, placed on some woods, and if an authority would check it out, would they feel safe? Guess not. Most likely, they would take it away

 

We condemn these items on geocaches. We also don't smoke.

 

The most stupid item we've ever found on a geocache was a lighter, half shaped like an hand grenade, half as a pigeon. We have it just to show how stupid it is.

 

Go down to your local $0.99 and buy a bunch of cool stuff.

[+briansnat]

What if some pour soul is lost in the woods with night approaching and the temperature dropping. He stumbles on a geocache and finds a pack of matches that he uses to light a fire. Its warmth gets him through the night and he's rescued the next morning thanks to a searcher who saw his fire. If a pack of matches in a cache can save one life, its worth it.

 

 

Far fetched? Sure, but so is the idea of 8 year olds wandering the forest unsupervised, finding caches and setting fires with matches found inside.

 

That said, the guidelines as to what can be in a cache are there for a reason. Explosives, drugs, alcohol and illegal materials are no brainers. Our sport would have never gotten off the ground if land managers found out that these were accepted trade items.

 

Knives, multi tools and lighters are more of a grey area. Many people felt (and still feel) that pocket knives were excellent trade items. I personally purchased a bunch of Swiss Army knives for geocaches and the finders loved them. Most rational people agree that they are tools and not weapons, but unfortunately a park system disagreed and banned geocaching when a "weapon" (a pen knife) was discovered in a cache. The ban on pocket knives and multi tools was a response to that. There was also much debate about lighters similar to what is seen in this thread, but TPTB felt that it was best to err on the side of caution and ban them as well.

 

As the guidelines say, use your common sense. There are many things that are not listed in the guidelines that should not be placed in a cache. There are also many things that might seem fine to one person, but foolish to another. I've seen posts here complaining about balloons in caches (choking hazard for children),

certain small toys (choking hazard), religious pamphlets (offensive), batteries (can corrode), shot glasses (can break and cut someone) and other items. No matter what you put in a cache, someone, somewhere will have a issue with it.

[+The Leprechauns]

No matter what you put in a cache, someone, somewhere will have a issue with it.

Great, I go out and get a fresh stack of $20 bills, and then I read this. I've shredded them, and I will go back to TNLN. I would hate to stir up any issues.

 

Thanks for setting me straight, Brian. You da man!

[+ThePropers]

I tend to stick to the "If I wouldn't want my 5 year old playing with it unsupervised, then I don't leave it in a cache" guideline. But that's me, and others tend to think knives/lighters are perfectly acceptable, which is fine too.

 

I like to lean towards the side of caution though, and I also believe that not having those items in the caches will help the general perception of geocaching among the muggle/non-informed community. For instance, if you were a non-cacher/park ranger, a "box containing matchbox cars, trinkets, and toys" might sound better than "a box containing knives, lighters and matches"

 

I find myself agreeing that kids shouldn't be in the woods unsupervised, so maybe it could be more acceptable with caches with higher-terrain ratings or more difficult locations. But then it opens up that can of worms and questions about how far of a hike, how far out into the woods, and how far off the trail is acceptable.

 

Anyways, what I'm saying is that IMO, it's better to err on the side of caution and stick to non-controversial items. I never really understood why people get upset about not being able to leave pocketknives anyways. It's not like it's such a phoenomenal trade item that someone is going to find it, dance a jig, and hold it high above their head like He-Man and shout to the heavens "BEHOLD THIS POCKETKNIFE, FOR IT WILL FOREVER BE KNOWN AS THE GREATEST TRADE ITEM IN THE HISTORY OF GEOCACHING, AND THE PERSON THAT LEFT IT WILL GO DOWN IN THE ANNALS OF GEOCACHING HISTORY OF BEING THE GREATEST TRADER THIS SIDE OF THE GREAT MISSISSIPPI!" Ok, that's a bit excessive, but I hope you get the point. It's just a trade item, and a controversial one at that. Plenty of other useful things you could leave in a cache.

[+Jhwk]

Since it is [generally] an outdoor, in the woods sport, I try to leave similar items that folks would find useful. Instead of matches, I tend to leave flint/steel kits and magnesium firestarters or match containers (read: instant micro). Reduces the risk of little johnny burning down the forest but accomplishes the same goal - something useful for the finders. And I like finding knives in caches.

[+Bonepile]

Hooah75,

 

I'm new here also. But aside from the controversy, think about this ..... How excited would you be to find a leftover matchbook from MY wedding?

[+sbell111]

ThePropers find a new cache:

[+Renegade Knight]

It's generally accepted that we don't leave flammibles in a cache. Safety matches are not going to burst into flame, however under most circumstances I'd not leave them in a cache.

 

However if I was freezing to death and lost in the woods and only had my GPS loaded with caches I'd sure as heck hope that one of those caches had matches.

[+Renegade Knight]

Hooah75,

 

I'm new here also. But aside from the controversy, think about this ..... How excited would you be to find a leftover matchbook from MY wedding?

If it's a personalized signature item... Quite a few people would want to find it.

[+ThePropers]

It's generally accepted that we don't leave flammibles in a cache. Safety matches are not going to burst into flame, however under most circumstances I'd not leave them in a cache.

 

However if I was freezing to death and lost in the woods and only had my GPS loaded with caches I'd sure as heck hope that one of those caches had matches.

 

I'd actually hope one of those caches had a map or a cell phone or one of those space-age blankets, but I'd probably be too busy using my GPS to get out of the woods rather than find caches that may or may not have any of those items.

[+GreyingJay]

So many of the caches I've found have been damp and smelly, so I'm not sure how a pack of matches would even hold up, regardless of whether it was kosher or not.

[+Renegade Knight]

... I'd probably be too busy using my GPS to get out of the woods rather than find caches that may or may not have any of those items.

 

Fair enough. If the walk is long enough though you may want to warm up. It's snowing right now here. I wasn't supposed to...

[+BuxCamper]

Take the matches out of the book and just leave the imprinted cover. Still personalized, but no longer directly flammable. You could restaple the bottom portion so it looks like a regular match book.

[+BlueDeuce]

Hooah75,

 

I'm new here also. But aside from the controversy, think about this ..... How excited would you be to find a leftover matchbook from MY wedding?

If it's a personalized signature item... Quite a few people would want to find it.

 

There might be some people who put their geocaching sig on their wedding matches.

 

Well there might!

[+lpyankeefan]

No matter what you put in a cache, someone, somewhere will have a issue with it.

Great, I go out and get a fresh stack of $20 bills, and then I read this. I've shredded them, and I will go back to TNLN. I would hate to stir up any issues.

 

Thanks for setting me straight, Brian. You da man!

 

Papercuts Lep! They're a dangerous thing! I can only imagine the wound once infection or gangrene sets in.....then how will you feel?...all because of your nice crisp $20.00 bills!!!!

Edited October 25, 2006 by lpyankeefan

[+Bonepile]

Hooah75,

 

I'm new here also. But aside from the controversy, think about this ..... How excited would you be to find a leftover matchbook from MY wedding?

If it's a personalized signature item... Quite a few people would want to find it.

So Are you saying that my soggy old left over matchbbooks from my wedding may be a sought after item? Why? I don't even want them, and I wouldn't think of putting such junk into a cache. But I an a brand new NOOB and maybe I am missing the point of this game. To me it is all about the fun of the hunt. Just a log book is enough reward. Why would I want some soggy crap spmebody else didn't want?

[+Bad_CRC]

Far fetched? Sure, but so is the idea of 8 year olds wandering the forest unsupervised, finding caches and setting fires with matches found inside.

 

you must have grown up in a very urban area with really protective parents. that's exactly the kind of awful stuff we did when we were that age. I don't know how we survived.

[+Bad_CRC]

Far fetched? Sure, but so is the idea of 8 year olds wandering the forest unsupervised, finding caches and setting fires with matches found inside.

 

you must have grown up in a very urban area with really protective parents. that's exactly the kind of awful stuff we did when we were that age. I don't know how we survived.

[+ThePropers]

Far fetched? Sure, but so is the idea of 8 year olds wandering the forest unsupervised, finding caches and setting fires with matches found inside.

 

you must have grown up in a very urban area with really protective parents. that's exactly the kind of awful stuff we did when we were that age. I don't know how we survived.

 

I nearly burnt down my parents barn with a lighter I found when I was about that age. Surprisingly, they were NOT happy about it.

 

But yeah, I grew up in the country, and was always a mile or more out in the woods unsupervised growing up. Not sure about 8 years old, but definitely by 10.

[+cimawr]

 

But yeah, I grew up in the country, and was always a mile or more out in the woods unsupervised growing up. Not sure about 8 years old, but definitely by 10.

 

Ditto.

I went out of doors as soon as I got home from school and changed my clothes, and didn't come back in until dark, from age 6 on. At 6, I had certain boundaries I wasn't allowed to go beyond; by the time I was 9 or so, all that mattered was that I got home for dinner during the school year.

[+briansnat]

Far fetched? Sure, but so is the idea of 8 year olds wandering the forest unsupervised, finding caches and setting fires with matches found inside.

 

you must have grown up in a very urban area with really protective parents. that's exactly the kind of awful stuff we did when we were that age. I don't know how we survived.

 

At 8 I wasn't allowed off the property. 10+ I was able to wander off on my own as long as the folks knew where I was headed. I don't think parents today are as carefree. Its not that things are more dangerous for kids, its that the news reporting is so much better and parents are more aware of what can happen.

[+ThePropers]

Far fetched? Sure, but so is the idea of 8 year olds wandering the forest unsupervised, finding caches and setting fires with matches found inside.

 

you must have grown up in a very urban area with really protective parents. that's exactly the kind of awful stuff we did when we were that age. I don't know how we survived.

 

At 8 I wasn't allowed off the property. 10+ I was able to wander off on my own as long as the folks knew where I was headed. I don't think parents today are as carefree. Its not that things are more dangerous for kids, its that the news reporting is so much better and parents are more aware of what can happen.

 

I also think in general, areas have become more suburbanized than where I grew up. I expect that if I asked around my old neighborhood (which consisted of about 5 houses spread over a couple square miles) that the kids behave much the same way I did growing up, and not much like the suburban kids where I live now, with the protective parents and everyone keeping one eye on their kids and the other eye on any strangers. But that's just a theory.

[Donald, Daisy and Kids]

No matter what you put in a cache, someone, somewhere will have a issue with it.

Great, I go out and get a fresh stack of $20 bills, and then I read this. I've shredded them, and I will go back to TNLN. I would hate to stir up any issues.

 

Thanks for setting me straight, Brian. You da man!

 

hahahaha, see if we found a stack of fresh $20's we would be concerned as to their origin, were they a result of a robbery, were they freshly printed etc etc!

[Donald, Daisy and Kids]

I tend to stick to the "If I wouldn't want my 5 year old playing with it unsupervised, then I don't leave it in a cache" guideline. But that's me, and others tend to think knives/lighters are perfectly acceptable, which is fine too.

 

I like to lean towards the side of caution though, and I also believe that not having those items in the caches will help the general perception of geocaching among the muggle/non-informed community. For instance, if you were a non-cacher/park ranger, a "box containing matchbox cars, trinkets, and toys" might sound better than "a box containing knives, lighters and matches"

 

I find myself agreeing that kids shouldn't be in the woods unsupervised, so maybe it could be more acceptable with caches with higher-terrain ratings or more difficult locations. But then it opens up that can of worms and questions about how far of a hike, how far out into the woods, and how far off the trail is acceptable.

 

Anyways, what I'm saying is that IMO, it's better to err on the side of caution and stick to non-controversial items. I never really understood why people get upset about not being able to leave pocketknives anyways. It's not like it's such a phoenomenal trade item that someone is going to find it, dance a jig, and hold it high above their head like He-Man and shout to the heavens "BEHOLD THIS POCKETKNIFE, FOR IT WILL FOREVER BE KNOWN AS THE GREATEST TRADE ITEM IN THE HISTORY OF GEOCACHING, AND THE PERSON THAT LEFT IT WILL GO DOWN IN THE ANNALS OF GEOCACHING HISTORY OF BEING THE GREATEST TRADER THIS SIDE OF THE GREAT MISSISSIPPI!" Ok, that's a bit excessive, but I hope you get the point. It's just a trade item, and a controversial one at that. Plenty of other useful things you could leave in a cache.

 

 

See what amazes me is that you can leave a coil of rope in a cache, now whats to say that some weirdo isnt going to string it between 2 trees to take someone off their mountainbike or motor/trail bike?? Or maybe hang themself because they suffer depression? Or use it to tie someone up after they rob them?>

[+BlueDeuce]

What's sad about my kids not being able to find lighters, fireworks, knives and alcohol in a cache?

 

deuce, did you read the post?

 

Yes I did.

[Donald, Daisy and Kids]

We actually left a very small muli tool in our first cache, Waddle walk to the water and were told to remove it (by the cache reviewer)

 

This is the picture of the item we removed

 

And this is the posted log f the FTF

 

Given that you can leave sinkers, fishing hooks, tent pegs etc etc etc and they are acceptable trade items, it seems so weird that a multi tool like this cant be left when it is obviously a camping / survival related item.

 

And the other thing that amazes me is that you can leave a corkscrew......... (we regularly find them in caches) and have you seen what damage they can cause when a kid falls on them whilst walking and it screws into their eye?

[+Team Dromomania]

I've seen posts here complaining about balloons in caches (choking hazard for children),

certain small toys (choking hazard), religious pamphlets (offensive), batteries (can corrode), shot glasses (can break and cut someone) and other items. No matter what you put in a cache, someone, somewhere will have a issue with it.

 

Perhaps one of the more dangerous items left in many (if not most) caches are pencils. Just google to see how many people are injured or die from pencils.

 

Is say get the lead out of our caches!

[+Renegade Knight]

No matter what you put in a cache, someone, somewhere will have a issue with it.

Great, I go out and get a fresh stack of $20 bills, and then I read this. I've shredded them, and I will go back to TNLN. I would hate to stir up any issues.

 

Thanks for setting me straight, Brian. You da man!

 

They were probably counterfeit anyway. If by chance they weren’t counterfeit then they would be laced with cocaine which is not allowed in a cache. You did the right thing.

[+Renegade Knight]

....So Are you saying that my soggy old left over matchbbooks from my wedding may be a sought after item? Why? I don't even want them, and I wouldn't think of putting such junk into a cache. But I an a brand new NOOB and maybe I am missing the point of this game. To me it is all about the fun of the hunt. Just a log book is enough reward. Why would I want some soggy crap spmebody else didn't want?

Soggy is optional and has more to do with the cache than the signature item. If you put then in the cache soggy, well that's just stupid. As for your attitude about peoples signature items, yes you are missing the point. People enjoy leaving a signature item as part of how they have fun in this activity. I used to leave Ancient Mew Holofoils in caches. I know of 2 people who actually took the time to collect them. More power to them. If it's about fun, what part of your post was fun?

[The EAM Team]

Did no one else see that picture up there??!?!?!?

 

Forget knives and matches and sticks of dynamite.... if there are geocachers out in the woods that look like that... *shudder* ... I'm giving it up right now. That is much more damaging to my precious 7&8 year olds than any blippin' multi-tool!!!!

[+briansnat]

We actually left a very small muli tool in our first cache, Waddle walk to the water and were told to remove it (by the cache reviewer)

 

This is the picture of the item we removed

 

And this is the posted log f the FTF

 

Given that you can leave sinkers, fishing hooks, tent pegs etc etc etc and they are acceptable trade items, it seems so weird that a multi tool like this cant be left when it is obviously a camping / survival related item.

 

And the other thing that amazes me is that you can leave a corkscrew......... (we regularly find them in caches) and have you seen what damage they can cause when a kid falls on them whilst walking and it screws into their eye?

 

All quite true. We have to realize that it is all about appearances. To some small minded people, pocket knife = weapon no matter what the law or common sense says. Unfortunately some of these people are running park systems.

[magellan315]

There is another reason why certain items are not allowed in caches, to enusre that the park ranger, land manager, ect. understands that there risk of legal liability, i.e. lawsuit, is graetly reduced. Having worked with one Park Ranger in regards to Geocaching, his stress level was greatly reduced when he understood that items such as knives and matches were not placed in caches.

[+cimawr]

ThePropers find a new cache:

 

[+ThePropers]

ThePropers find a new cache:

 

 

I normally don't like to brag about my impressive physique and lack of a tan, and like to keep a low profile. But someone has to save the world, and with the power of Greyskull behind us, we're just the cachers to do it.

 

I also have less hair on my head and more on my chest than that picture would imply.