Found my first cache - but 70 feet away? Is this normal?

[+Nutty Squirrel]

I found my first cache today. After 3 failed attempts at 3 different caches today, I was finally successful on the fourth one. The cache level was "easy". Yet, after about 45 minutes I was about to give up until I started looking by fallen trees that were well away from where the GPS was pointing me. I was surprised when I finally found it and the GPS was still telling me 70 feet to destination. The device had an accuracy claim that varied between 20-25, sometimes spiking up to 40 but never losing signal. Despite it varying some, it never pointed me anywhere near the log where I actually found the cache.

 

Is this normal to have happen? I have a new Garmin eTrex Vista Cx. What's the most likely cause of this? I'm also thinking this may be why I couldn't find the other 3 despite hours of wandering around in the woods and poison ivy.

[+OzGuff]

I wouldn't call it "normal" but I would say that every now and then the listed coordinates and my GPSr aren't on the same page.

 

If the hider had 30 feet of accuracy and you had 30 feet of accuracy then the coordinates could be off by 60 feet. (This is a vast over-simplification but close enough for government work.) All of a sudden your search radius has become a decent sized plot of land. You may want to get close to the listed coordinates and then just start looking for likely hiding spots.

 

As you find more caches you will start to get a feel for where caches are hidden. And you will likely find more of them and quicker. Good luck!

[+Trucker Lee]

 

Is this normal to have happen? I have a new Garmin eTrex Vista Cx.

 

Might be that the unit needs to settle in. Leave it on for a couple hours. My Garmin Summit has gotten more accurate with time.

[+briansnat]

 

Is this normal to have happen? I have a new Garmin eTrex Vista Cx.

 

Might be that the unit needs to settle in. Leave it on for a couple hours. My Garmin Summit has gotten more accurate with time.

 

Leave it on in an open field. It doesn't have to be for a few hours, but 20 minutes with a clear view of the sky should do the trick.

 

Anyway, 70 feet off is not unheard of, though it is on the far end of normal. Usually you will see 15-40 feet off.

[+Bad_CRC]

I was at one today where I was standing still, and it said 2 feet.

 

then it said 35 feet

 

 

then it said 15 feet the other way

 

 

and I hadn't moved.

 

[Donald, Daisy and Kids]

I found my first cache today. After 3 failed attempts at 3 different caches today, I was finally successful on the fourth one. The cache level was "easy". Yet, after about 45 minutes I was about to give up until I started looking by fallen trees that were well away from where the GPS was pointing me. I was surprised when I finally found it and the GPS was still telling me 70 feet to destination. The device had an accuracy claim that varied between 20-25, sometimes spiking up to 40 but never losing signal. Despite it varying some, it never pointed me anywhere near the log where I actually found the cache.

 

Is this normal to have happen? I have a new Garmin eTrex Vista Cx. What's the most likely cause of this? I'm also thinking this may be why I couldn't find the other 3 despite hours of wandering around in the woods and poison ivy.

\]

 

I have the identical GPSr and I have personally found that each time I change the batteries I need to calibrate the compas and I need to calibrate the altimiter every time the unit is turned off then back on.

 

 

I found some helpful info from a guy who does an australian mapping software, (Yahoo group called Tracks for australia) and he told me the best setting to use in "UNITS SETUP", "MAP DATUM" is GDA or WGS as they are world standards.

 

He also said to set the GPSr "POSITION FORMAT" to Hddd°mm.mmm' as it was the easiest and most common format.

 

Hope this helps!

[+Nutty Squirrel]

I found my second cache today. The GPS jumped around some, but when I managed to find the cache, the GPS was saying just about 0 feet to destination. Plus, I brought a second GPS (the base model $100 eTrex), and they pretty accurately reported nearly identical coords (just 1 or 2 digits away from each other). So, this is encouraging and takes away most of the shock of finding a cache 70 feet from where it should be.

[+JDandDD]

After a while, more seasoned geocachers learn not to follow what their GPS is saying. It will get you to an area but rarely will take you to the precise spot. There is enough variation in reception and many other factors that you learn that you will likely be off somewhat. That's half the fun, what would be the point if you could just walk up.

 

A couple of more specific things.

 

First, The estimated error is just that, an estimation. The error can actually be a lot higher or lower.

 

Second, the error is a circle around a point. The actuall positon could be anywhere within that circle including right at the edge. Now, if you've got 20 ft and the day the cache placer was out they had 40ft error then you could be as much as 60ft off and not know it.

 

Third, its not all that common but I've had days when my GPS calculated that I was 800 miles away. Why, well the altitude reading was way of, 2000ft off and thus the best calculation put me on the only point on earth the GPS could calculate me being at that height.

 

So, what we all do with the error, is start to think like the cacher and try to figure out where you would hide it. That works a lot.

 

JD

[+salmondan]

And don't forget to wash with Tecnu or another product to avoid a nasty case of poison oak!

[+gps_junky]

One of the bigest problems with etrex (got one myself) is that they have an internal antena. With that, It seems to be more apt to 'get confused' when you are in wooded areas.

 

The second thing I seem to notice is other gps's. Example: If I go hide a cache with my etrex, it seem that most cachers with an old gps or etrex don't have a prob. finding it. But the more modern ones don't seem to locate it. Everyone here has good advise and good idea's tho.

 

I would look at the 4 attempted caches. Are they all the same cacher? Perhaps their gps is off and yours is on.

 

A new term for your vocab (if you haven't heard it yet) is GEO-BEACON This is the word cacher use when looking for the cache. Think of it as asking yourself "NOW WHERE WOULD I HAVE HID IT?" When you find that spot, its a goe-beacon. A log or stump or maybe a rock. When I hit ground 0, I mark the spot with my backpack or somthing. Leave the Gps there and just start looking around for the beacons. DON't FORGET ABOUT LOOKING UP A LITTLE. Not all of the caches are on the ground.

 

The more you play the game the more you learn. In my area, I know most of the other cachers or their style of hides. One is the master of Camo. and always makes you work for it. Spray paint or perhaps its a medal fence post that has a removable top. Maybe its a micro magnatized to somthing that lookes it should belong there.

 

Then there is another one who will literaly cut the 2nd stage cords to the bottom of a rock that is in a pile of rocks. But my Gps always works with his. If his cords say its there (acording to my gps) ITS THERE. Then there are others that seem to be 20 feet North of Ground zero.

 

Keep plain. You will get to be figure it out as you go. The more you do the more you learn. KEEP AN OPEN MIND. Somtimes you have to think CREATIVITY.

[+budd-rdc]

I'd consider 70' away as abnormal, but it happens. Some factors to consider:

 

- operator error (not holding GPSr ideally, turning it on just before use, not waiting to settle)

- environment (tree cover, tall buildings, metal structures, power lines, cyclone fence)

- hider error (same as operator error, not using the averaging function when available)

- finder error (someone decides to move the cache, for various reasons)

 

In heavy tree cover, having an error of 100' is common, although by minimizing operator/hider error, I've seen some darned good coordinates that took me within 30'. Many people will simply dismiss 70' error as "you can't do anything about it" but I expect more from myself and my GPSr, and many cachers in my area have shown me that it's possible to do better consistently.

 

Just make sure you try your best to avoid errors of 70' or more when you hide your cache.

[+JDandDD]

Just make sure you try your best to avoid errors of 70' or more when you hide your cache.

 

Absolutely. Lots of hiders forget to average and/or to take several readings. It then leads to what the OP was talking about, not always but too much really. Heavy trees, tall buildings, rock walls, anything that can give a reflection of the signal can cause that so, I agree, try to minimize as much as possible. Finders also need to be aware of the problems that might be throwing their accuracy off and adjust their search accordingly.

 

JD

[+michigansnorkelers]

I went through the same thing my first day of Geocaching. So, here are some suggestions.

 

Some of this is just experience. Look up some VIRTUAL CACHES. It will be quite obvious when you've found them, and this will give you some experience with your GPS.

 

Look for difficulty 1 caches, regular size or larger. Forget small or micro for now.

 

When you are 100 feet from the cache, notice the general direction you are headed. As you get closer, think of where you would put the cache. These include: inside the trunk of a fallen tree ... along side a fallen tree covered with a pile of bark or loose sticks. The same goes for upright trees. Sometimes your GPS will take you right to the cache. Other times it will leave you 60 feet away.

 

Sometimes, caches in a large tree are at eye level, in the junction of several trunks.

 

Remember, in many cases the hider selected a unique tree or other structure to hide the cache. Or, it will be hidden at a smaller tree in the vicinity of the unique large tree. They have to be able to find it again you realize! So, they usually do not head blindly into the forest and randomly select a tree. Ok, some do.

 

If there is a small wooden bridge, it will probably be under it. It may be supported in such a way that you have to look under the bridge. It might be near or behind a beam so that it is hard to see.

 

By all means, pay attention to the title of the cache. This sometimes is an added clue. Also, fully read the description. Read all the clues. Read all the posts! This can be vital. And for now, avoid any cache that has not been visited recently.

 

Some of the easiest caches I have found were at expressway rest areas, and travel bug "hotels". These are intended to be easily found, usually. Sometimes caches are hidden by the local park service along nature trails. Usually these are easier too.

 

It's a learning experience. Remember, this is a HUNT. The GPS just gets you in the general area. If it points directly to the cache, consider yourself lucky. I'll bet if you go back tomorrow, it won't point to the same place again.

 

And, once you get better at this, you will actually become disappointed with easier caches. It will get to the point where you see some caches from 100 feet away and wish the hider had made it more difficult.

 

Speaking of difficulty. This becomes addicting. I was on my 40'th cache when I fell and broke my ankle. Two hours later, I had made it the mile back to my van with the help of a sturdy tree branch. Leg in cast, one week later I was geocaching again! I hit my 100'th cache yesterday, still in a walking cast.

[+Nutty Squirrel]

Thanks for all the advice. I've since found 8 caches this weekend and DNF on 2 of them, most of them the coordinates came out pretty reasonably. One was 45' away when I found it, the others much better though.

 

I'm also doing an experiment... I averaged a waypoint at a fence post in a field, then walked away and followed the GPS back to it. Was roughly 8' off when I went back. Will try again at that post on other days to see how consistent it is.

[+DconBlueZ]

I recently did a multi where I found Stage 1 about 25 ft SSW of where my GFPSr said Ground Zero was. When I went to Stage 2 I started off about 25' SSW of GZ and found it almost immediately. Wanna guess where I found Stage 3? Yep, 25' SSW of GZ.

 

Next time I go after one of that hiders caches I think I'll look around GZ real quick then move 25' SSW...

 

DconBlueZ

[Mr Walker]

I must have been lucky. Once my Gpsr was set up correctly i have had only one cache that was located more than 10 feet from the given coordinates, and it wasn't much more. Out of 130 caches found, well over 100 were within 6 feet of the coordinates given, and many were virtually at my feet. This does not of course guarantee being able to find them. There is one on a statue in my states capital city. I have looked for it 4 times, and know where it is supposed to be, but cannot place my hands on it. Not everyone hides in the obvious places. I have placed about 30 caches in rural (outback) areas and while some might be in hollow trees, some are just in an average, nondescript place, to make it harder. On the other hand, i don't go to great lengths to camouflage my hides, but let the landscape do this for me.

[+Bad_CRC]

wow, I can be 30 feet from my own waypoint sometimes. I have to take like 5 or 6 waypoints and average them to get the best one for a cache.

[+Colorado Cacher]

Its possible, I have seen 50 ft. variations.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Colorado Cacher

[+Night Stalker]

Normally I find caches within 20' of where my GPS says is zero. Recently though I found one that was 85' off. It is also true that I have more than a few DNF's. For all I know these are because the cache is more than 20' off. The worst offset I have ever found was more than 1/2 mile off. The only reason I found it was because I carried a copy of the cache page with me and found that a previous cacher had listed the correct coordinate. Now I have to wonder how in the world he found the cache.

 

[beautyisgod]

I found my first cache today. After 3 failed attempts at 3 different caches today, I was finally successful on the fourth one. The cache level was "easy". Yet, after about 45 minutes I was about to give up until I started looking by fallen trees that were well away from where the GPS was pointing me. I was surprised when I finally found it and the GPS was still telling me 70 feet to destination. The device had an accuracy claim that varied between 20-25, sometimes spiking up to 40 but never losing signal. Despite it varying some, it never pointed me anywhere near the log where I actually found the cache.

 

Is this normal to have happen? I have a new Garmin eTrex Vista Cx. What's the most likely cause of this? I'm also thinking this may be why I couldn't find the other 3 despite hours of wandering around in the woods and poison ivy.

 

I too am having such difficult at finding my first cache...I got my GPS since like Aug 16 2006 and todate...I have only found like 1 VIRTUAL cache!!! It takes me to the location but then I can't find it once I am there...there are a lot of trees around the cache...so I just can't find it! We have some pretty good advices from those who reply...thanks for all the help!

[+FamilyLucasMullen]

When I started, I was doing the same thing. Blindly following the GPSr wherever it led me. As I've gotten more experienced, I'm starting to realize that sometimes the GPSr will be so accurate that you will literally trip over the cache as you are searching for it and other times, it will be so inaccurate that you put it in your pocket and start searching the immediate (and perhaps not so immediate) area for likely hiding spots.

 

The more caches you do, the more of a sixth sense you will get for hiding spots and signs of a hidden cache. Look for things that look out of the ordinary, like a bundle of sticks piled on a rock wall. Especially look in rock walls if there's one nearby. Those are very popular hiding spots. Look for bundles of sticks and piles of leaves. Look for signs of wear off of the nearby trail.

 

However, the GPS and the coords are more to just get you to the general area of the cache. Today, my GPSr had me on the wrong side of the trail looking for one of the caches until I got near to the hiding spot and it was free of overhead obstructions. Trees drive the little buggers nuts.

 

I think that might be one of the reasons that I like urban micro's so much. The GPSr usually deposits me right on top of the thing. Of course, it's been pretty good to me other than today. Today it was running me ragged. Oh well, I still got the finds.

 

EDIT: Keep at it, because that first one is sweet and then it just snowballs from there.

Edited September 25, 2006 by slucas76

[+jackrock]

I just got my GPS this weekend. The first cache I tried was very close to where I live and looked to be an easy one. It was, my GPS took me right to it and I just had to figure it out. I tried two caches today that I did not find. I must have searched all around them but never found them. They were both in a moderately wooded area with a LOT of fallen trees, logs, branches and thick leaf litter everywhere. I saw all kinds of "likely" spots but never found them. While my readings jumped around some, it was clear that I had circled each cache without finding either. I'll try for these again another day. I think I need to build on experience to train my "eye" better for finding caches.

 

Oh yeah, as soon as I got out of the woods I washed thoroughly. This area is one of the thickest poison ivy areas I've ever seen.

[+Outspoken1]

I don't know if it is an ananomly on my GPSr (eTrex Legend Cx), but I find the unit is more accurate with regular alkaline batteries instead of NiMH rechargeables. I do change the Unit Settings from alkaline to NiMH when I have the rechargeables in (or vice-versa). I am using 2500 and 2800 NiMHs, but good ol' Duracell alkalines seem to be more accurate. Anyone else having this issue? Also, I could be all wrong!!

[+Wayfarer-MD]

I DL waypoints from the web to my GPS to avoid manual entry mistakes. Even so, watch out for the following:

 

Several times, my GPS led me to a very improbable location for a hide. I checked the GPS coordinates with that of the hardcopy for the site -- and found they were different! Manual re-entry of the coordinates from the hard copy lead me to the correct location.

 

I have a Garmin GPSmap 60CS. Appearantly, is has a "feature" where if you select a waypoint using the map, it then prepares to MOVE it -- not sometting you would want to do with a Geocache location!

[+Co-Stars]

I don't know if it is an ananomly on my GPSr (eTrex Legend Cx), but I find the unit is more accurate with regular alkaline batteries instead of NiMH rechargeables. I do change the Unit Settings from alkaline to NiMH when I have the rechargeables in (or vice-versa). I am using 2500 and 2800 NiMHs, but good ol' Duracell alkalines seem to be more accurate. Anyone else having this issue? Also, I could be all wrong!!

Alkaline will always outperform NiMH because 1) two alkalines are 3.0 volts where two NiMH are 2.5 volts, and 2) alkalines last 3-5 times longer than NiMH (before they need recharging) for the same current draw, and 3) alkalines have a shelf life 100 times that of NiMH. I started with NiMH but got so frustrated with them constantly dying that I never use them anymore.

Edited October 25, 2006 by Co-Stars

[+ThePropers]

I believe with about 850 finds, that there were exactly 3 times where my GPS counted down to zero and the cache was there at my feet, so as others pointed out, some discrepancy is normal.

 

70 feet seems a bit excessive to me though, but if the area was wooded, it's possible. I've found caches where I have found the cache 100+ feet from where the coordinates led me.

 

Of course, that pales in comparison to this find which was almost 1/4 mile off.

[+Jhwk]

Seems like its time for my time honored cut and paste on hunting for new hunters:

 

Bottom line - Put Down the GPSr and LOOK

 

1. Use the compass screen versus the map screen. Tells you where to go and how far left to go.

2. Rather than trying to get to the 0 point on your GPSr (basically standing on top of the cache) stop about 50 feet from the expected location. Then stop looking at your GPS and start looking at your location. Look for the obvious clues to the cache location. Piles of sticks, rocks, dead hollow tree, or stump in plain view. Don't forget to look at the size of the cache you are looking for. Nothing like thinking you are hunting a regular sized cache, when it is actually a micro-cache.

3. Start out with the easiest dificulty caches (D/T). So go for the 1/1 to 2/2 caches first.

4. Have fun and enjoy

[+K0BKL]

Some parks are so small, that I have sought the cache without

even turning on the GPS!

Mosquito Park in Burlington is one such park.

The entire park is smaller than the margin of error of a GPS!

Might as well been a letterbox!