Is It Bad Form?

[+oldsoldier]

Ok, I went to do a multi today, and didnt find the 2nd part. I spent two hours searching in a relatively small area. I read & reread the logs. I searched every conceivable area for this, and a few that werent so concievable. After getting back home, thoroughly frustrated, I posted a DNF for the cache. I received a couple of emails from fellow cachers who never logged DNFs, but didnt find the cache anyway. My concern is this; we recently had a bout of rain for almost two weeks, earlier this month. The last logged find was April 30. I wasnt sure if it was perhaps washed away (was a micro), or if I just simply didnt find it. I was on an open cliff, and, my GPS was reading within 5' most of the time. I even went so far as to sit in any conceivale area that others had sat, when they "found" it. I emailed the owner of the cache for a little help, as I saw I wasnt the only one who this has happened to recently. My question is this; is that bad form, asking for help after one fruitless search? After I thought about it, I kinda felt bad about asking for any addtional clues on the micro, but I dont see how I could have missed it today. I guess I'm not asking if I am right or wrong doing this, but wondering if anyone else has ever had to ask an owner for help?

[+briansnat]

No, go ahead and ask. Some will be happy to help and others won't. Can't hurt to ask though.

[+norsehawk]

No, go ahead and ask. Some will be happy to help and others won't. Can't hurt to ask though.

 

It might even be an incentive for them to go out and make sure that stage 2 is still there as well. which isn't a bad thing at all.

[+BlueDeuce]

No, go ahead and ask. Some will be happy to help and others won't. Can't hurt to ask though.

 

It might even be an incentive for them to go out and make sure that stage 2 is still there as well. which isn't a bad thing at all.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Discuss it with the owner and maybe they'll agree you're looking in the right spot. Or they'll tell you to keep trying

[+RichardMoore]

No, go ahead and ask. Some will be happy to help and others won't. Can't hurt to ask though.

 

It might even be an incentive for them to go out and make sure that stage 2 is still there as well. which isn't a bad thing at all.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Discuss it with the owner and maybe they'll agree you're looking in the right spot. Or they'll tell you to keep trying

And if you give the owner the same information that you gave us, he'll know that you were actually out there looking and not just trying to get an additional hint before even heading out on the hunt.

[+Confucius' Cat]

most cache owners want their caches to be found. Unless it is a 'five star", where the difficulty IS the cache, most will be glad to give a clue or two (after the FTF typically).

[+Lasagna]

It's never bad form ... if you've given it a good search and still came up empty, ask for a hint! I've been caching long enough in my local area now that I have many cachers cell phone numbers (and they mine), so I will also occasionally even call the owner (or a fellow cacher who has found the cache) for a hint while in the field.

[NHRunner]

I own a cache and, sometimes, people ask me to give them a hint, as long as it is not a spoiler, i think hints are perfectly fine. You don't want to go and give away the whole thing, though

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I always feel that it is fine to call the owner to ask for a bit of help. In our state, almost all of the active cachers have shared their phone numbers and other contact information via a special section of the forums at Maryland Geocaching Society. We receive calls all the time, at all hours of day and night, from cachers wanting to ask a question or two about our caches, or wanting us to accompany them on the hike to some of our backcountry caches. We never mind such calls, and in fact, we welcome them! I spent a good part of today escorting cachers (in one case, a family from Pittsburgh who also visited our poultry pen) to some of our backcountry caches, or in one case, partway to one, and was then available by phone later when the latter seeker got stuck and simply could not find the last stage of Sue's newest puzzle cache. To us, this is simply part and parcel of the game.

[+oldsoldier]

Thanks for the quick responses all. I received an email back from the owner, and he said he will check on it this weekend. However, he gave me an additional clue as to its location, which put it about 40' W of where I hunted. I told him I'd try again this week, after work, and maybe save him a trip to it, if I locate it. Thanks for everyones opinions. I appreciate the feedback

[+Totem Clan]

As an onwer I like to get feedback from cachers. I hid a nano and a regular over the weekend, both were 2.5 or 3 star. One cacher couldn't find it, but one of his fellow came back later and claimed to have found it. It was a bogus find. The first cacher contacted me, and I was glad to help out. Anyway, feedback is helpful. The worse the owner could say is no.

[ParentsofSAM]

No ask for a hint. We have asked for and given hints. In fact there is one multi in our area and we have asked for hints twice on it and we still can not find the 4th stage.....

[+Jennifla]

Could we expand on this? What about a hint when you're an FTF contender? It happened recently that I went with a friend to attempt a FTF on a new multicache. We made it to stage 3, had to break off, went back later, searched another hour, and other commitments forced us to break off for the day. The next day a local with over 2,000 finds logs it as FTF but states he called the owner on his cell for "nudges" on stage 2 and 3! I believe that contact information that is not publicly available should not be used. But hey, I know we are all playing a different game.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Ooh. Tough question. I see a pair of cachers who always log FTF on each others caches. A different game than I play, but Oh, well.

For my regular caches, I want people to find them! I just did maintenance to make one easier to find (both container and hint.)

FTF opportunity? Ain't nobody gets a hint until it's been found a few times. I will, of course, verify if you have the correct coordinates for a mystery or multi cache.

On the other fin, some of my mystery caches are tricky, and I don't really know how to give a hint without giving away the whole shebang. They are meant to be challenging. Challenging is what they should be. You want the solution to the puzzle? Naw! Someone said there was a bunch of useless BS on the page. I prefer to think of it as 'red herrings'. Filter through the BS (Oops. Red Herrings.) and figure out where the solution lies. The solution is obvious, once you have solved the mystery/puzzle.

Log a DNF, ask your question. I may or may not give more information. It's under the crotch in the fallen tree! It's in the railing. No, it's not at that location. You have not solved the puzz;e.

It all depends, but it dosn't hurt to ask.

[+Renegade Knight]

Could we expand on this? What about a hint when you're an FTF contender? It happened recently that I went with a friend to attempt a FTF on a new multicache. We made it to stage 3, had to break off, went back later, searched another hour, and other commitments forced us to break off for the day. The next day a local with over 2,000 finds logs it as FTF but states he called the owner on his cell for "nudges" on stage 2 and 3! I believe that contact information that is not publicly available should not be used. But hey, I know we are all playing a different game.

 

Lifelines have become part of the social fabric of geocaching. I miss out on caches because I don't call people. Others find them all but don't admit they used a lifeline. At least your FTF person was honest.

[+Team Tired Boy]

I don't like it when the first finder got help from the owner. To me, that just means you were the first to try to find. I'll provide extra help for any of my caches, but only after someone has found it first.

[+Kealia]

I wouldn't ask for a hint for a FTF, but that's me.

 

As a cache owner, I don't mind if folks ask for hints/help in general because I do want them to find my caches.

[+The Geocache Hunter]

A few weeks ago I searched for a cache on a mountain top that hadn't been found in well over a year. I searched for an hour but didn't locate it. I logged a DNF and emailed the owner to make sure I looked in the right area. Based on the description I received back from the owner I determined that I could have easily overlooked it. I had very poor satellite reception and the description of the actual hiding spot was on the extreme edge of my search area which I breezed through. Because of my correspondance with the owner he isn't compelled to go on a long hike in a rather isolated area just to check on it because I let him know it was likely I didn't search the correct area well enough. So not only was an email helpful to me but it was helpful for the owner as well.

[+Team Cotati]

Just to add a little variety, no it is not considered good form to ask the cache owner for additional assistance. I can't imagine any circumstance where that would be acceptable. Carry-on.

[+Faith the Aquariaqueen]

You actually had a good question....(to me anyhow)

 

Until I went to an event, I had no idea how many people knew each other and how many of them use "find a friend" capabilities via cell phones for caches around town.

 

Going back to finder stats controversy, I now know how some have such large numbers.

 

...OK, maybe I'm jealous/grumpy because I don't have those connections and I either find them or I don't.

[+oldsoldier]

Mind you, I didnt ask for the exact location; I merely told them where I was hunting, and if that were the correct area. The reply from the owner was that I was, in fact, off, by almost 30'. Searching for a micro, well hidden, in this area, has taken several people more than a few trips, with several hours apiece. as I was the only one to visit it in a month, I wasnt sure if it had been washed away or not. The owner merely pointed me to a smaller search area, which I have yet to return to (its a good 20-30 min hike in, to that part alone). I did NOT ask for the coords to tghe final cache, nor ask specifically where the micro was hidden. I merely asked if I were wasting time in the wrong place.

If that sounded a little harsh, I apologize. I just didnt want to come off sounding like I found the area, and was too lazy to look.