Attention All Pa Geocachers

[+Team_LPD]

I think everyone needs to have respect for others. If I got up at 4:30 am to go out bow hunting and at 9:00am here comes some people there dog ect ect and they start ripping up logs flipping rocks....well needless to say I would be a little upset.

 

I would not be upset. While "our" hunting dollars paid for the land, they are are open to anyone to use. If I'm hunting and people come by looking for a cache, bird watching, going for a nature walk, or picking mushrooms, so be it.

Edited April 30, 2006 by Team LPD

[magellan315]

While I glad to see that calmer heads have prevailed. I am a little concerned about the agreement to limit Geoaching at certain times of the year. From a safety stand point this makes sense, however unlike hunters there is no Geocaching Game Warden to issue a summons to Geoachers who violate the terms of the agreement. I hope you can make them understand that while you can put a disclaimer/warning on a cache page you have no way of garunteeing it. You can only hope that everyone will respect it.

 

I still belive that you are dealing with a group of teenagers, someone went to a lot of trouble to write document that mocks the language used by various islamic paramiltary groups. Usually adults just send out an e-mail in plain language; get this cache out of the area or I will remove it and/or notify the police.

 

You live in this area so you need to deal with it at the local level to find an acceptable solution. However these "hunters" are not acting on behalf of the PCG and I would not want to set a trend that a vocal minority can dictate policy as to how that land is used. When they have no official capacity in making those desicions.

[+olbluesguy]

Just curious....anybody out there that caches on Gamelands ever run into Illegal tree stands?

[+dirtymartini]

 

 

You live in this area so you need to deal with it at the local level to find an acceptable solution. However these "hunters" are not acting on behalf of the PCG and I would not want to set a trend that a vocal minority can dictate policy as to how that land is used. When they have no official capacity in making those desicions.

I agree, I don't want to set a precedent here with policy on gamelands. I am walking the Razor's edge, part of me wants to tell them to F*** off, but the other part reels me back in and tells me to compromise, as I have to live in the same area and use the same Game Lands. I have a pretty good idea who their spokesperson is now and he is far from being a teenager. While they certainly can't dictate policy, they can make the caching experience miserable in this area.

[+Klatch]

Just curious....anybody out there that caches on Gamelands ever run into Illegal tree stands?

 

If you are talking about permanent tree stands, which are illegal, I see old ones that are obviously in disrepair, but nothing new. I do occasionally find temporary stands chained to trees far back off the roads. That saves the owners having to carry them in every day they go hunting.

[+Team_LPD]

Just curious....anybody out there that caches on Gamelands ever run into Illegal tree stands?

 

If you are talking about permanent tree stands, which are illegal, I see old ones that are obviously in disrepair, but nothing new. I do occasionally find temporary stands chained to trees far back off the roads. That saves the owners having to carry them in every day they go hunting.

 

If they want to claim caches are trash, then so are those tree stands chained to a tree. At least you can't see a cache unless it is uncovered.

[+NetworkCacher]

After following this thread for awhile I'm still wondering why you're negotiating with this piece of s*&$. If you think you know who it is, you have a duty to the residents of PA and fellow cachers to forward everthing to the State Police and let them investigate his threats. He crossed the line by sending threatening emails and this could escalate very quickly if its not dealt with by law enforcement. ¢¢/out

[+koikeeper]

ImpalaBob & I had a couple of DNFs on two caches... one was in state gamelands #182 Countryside Travel Bug Hotel. The other was nearby at Crystal Cache which is located at Crystal Cave. Both had the same owner. Not sure if this is related to the SGL controversy. The caches were completely gone!

Edited May 1, 2006 by koikeeper

[+olbluesguy]

Just curious....anybody out there that caches on Gamelands ever run into Illegal tree stands?

 

If you are talking about permanent tree stands, which are illegal, I see old ones that are obviously in disrepair, but nothing new. I do occasionally find temporary stands chained to trees far back off the roads. That saves the owners having to carry them in every day they go hunting.

 

If they want to claim caches are trash, then so are those tree stands chained to a tree. At least you can't see a cache unless it is uncovered.

 

The reason I ask is because we have no leverage against these so called terrorists.

If someone would take down and compile a list of the co-ordinates for every ilegal tree stand found on SGL,and turned them into the GC. Then we can let the owners of these stands know who kicked the bees nest to start with.

 

Mmm, I never thought about the climbing kind.

Wonder what Mr.Gameland Jihad would think if suddenly some went missing {held hostage} in his area?

Now I'm not condoning theft,but it would make for a fun cache hide with the co-ordinates sent to Mr jihad, and his email posted at each previous stand location.

 

NOw where did I put my Bolt cutters?

[+Polgara]

UPDATE

 

I have been negotiating and having a sensible dialogue with the leader of this movement. After the both of us toning down our e-mails and discussing this like educated adults (at least one of them is) we have come to an agreement. I agreed to include a statement in my cache description explaing how most of the funding for the Game Lands comes from the hunters license fees, tags etc. He agreed to us not disabling our caches, but including in the statement that from October through January we limit our caching to Sundays, and during the Month of May, cache any day of the week after 12:00 noon. The rest of the year there are no limitations. This only goes for Game Lands #57, the area these hunters frequent.

I am hoping the other owners of caches on these lands will follow suit. If we work together with the hunters things will go a lot smoother.

 

You don't have to do any of that. Geocaching with the SGL went through Harrisburg a few years ago, (in other words, this regional officer's BOSS has already discussed this and they didn't have a problem with it. SGL is public land, people participate in many activities on it, including horseback riding, snow mobiling, birdwatching, etc and there is no reason why you should have to mention any of the info about hunting liscenses on your cache page.

 

I agree about mentioning the hunting seasons, and times, as many cachers appreciate that for their own safety, myself included, but no way would i mention hunting liscenses. Geocachers don't take anything out of the gamelands, we're not bringing home a load of deer meat. JUst because you pay for a hunting licsense doesn't mean you OWN the gameland, or have priority over others that want to use it. My dad has a boating licsense...that doesn't mean he has any kind of ownership over the ocean. People sea kayak on it, surf in it, and surf fish in it, and don't pay to use the ocean. I don't see a difference in caching vs hunting. If you're hunting and a cacher comes by, well it happens. If my dad is fishing and a school of bottle nose dolphins swim by and eat all the fish, well, it happens. Its called a bad day.

 

I have a cache in a Maryland Bay, according to the rules this person is feeding you, I should also put on my cache page, "by the way if a boater is on the island, please leave, he paid for the boating liscense you didn't, he has more priviliege to be there. Please leave the island.....no way, no way.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Polgara

[+dirtymartini]

UPDATE

 

I have been negotiating and having a sensible dialogue with the leader of this movement. After the both of us toning down our e-mails and discussing this like educated adults (at least one of them is) we have come to an agreement. I agreed to include a statement in my cache description explaing how most of the funding for the Game Lands comes from the hunters license fees, tags etc. He agreed to us not disabling our caches, but including in the statement that from October through January we limit our caching to Sundays, and during the Month of May, cache any day of the week after 12:00 noon. The rest of the year there are no limitations. This only goes for Game Lands #57, the area these hunters frequent.

I am hoping the other owners of caches on these lands will follow suit. If we work together with the hunters things will go a lot smoother.

 

You don't have to do any of that. Geocaching with the SGL went through Harrisburg a few years ago, (in other words, this regional officer's BOSS has already discussed this and they didn't have a problem with it. SGL is public land, people participate in many activities on it, including horseback riding, snow mobiling, birdwatching, etc and there is no reason why you should have to mention any of the info about hunting liscenses on your cache page.

 

I agree about mentioning the hunting seasons, and times, as many cachers appreciate that for their own safety, myself included, but no way would i mention hunting liscenses. Geocachers don't take anything out of the gamelands, we're not bringing home a load of deer meat. JUst because you pay for a hunting licsense doesn't mean you OWN the gameland, or have priority over others that want to use it. My dad has a boating licsense...that doesn't mean he has any kind of ownership over the ocean. People sea kayak on it, surf in it, and surf fish in it, and don't pay to use the ocean. I don't see a difference in caching vs hunting. If you're hunting and a cacher comes by, well it happens. If my dad is fishing and a school of bottle nose dolphins swim by and eat all the fish, well, it happens. Its called a bad day.

 

I have a cache in a Maryland Bay, according to the rules this person is feeding you, I should also put on my cache page, "by the way if a boater is on the island, please leave, he paid for the boating liscense you didn't, he has more priviliege to be there. Please leave the island.....no way, no way.

 

No, I don't HAVE to do any of it...BUT, if I don't, caches will turn up missing...and I don't feel like continually replacing them. I felt it a lot easier to work out an agreement than go to war with them. After the tone of their demands settled down and we talked, what they wanted wasn't unreasonable. I use to be a very active hunter, and I can understand some of their points. If you're hunting and a cacher comes by, well it happens. This is called disturbing a hunt, and is deemed an illegal activity by the Game Commission. If you were another hunter walking through that's OK, you would be actively hunting. If you are walking through the area caching, during hunting season while someone is actively hunting, that is considered illegal. Check with the PA Game Commission. There are rules as to how and when certain activities can take place. Just because we are residents of PA, doesn't give us the right to go whereverer we want in the gamelands and do whatever we want. I am not taking the hunters side now just looking at both sides of the equation. It would be very easy for the Game Commission to turn around and say "No more caching on Game Lands" because we have had too many complaints from hunters. I have worked out this agreement so this very vocal group doesn't start a statewide campaign to put an end to caching. Remember, there are probably a lot more hunters in PA than cachers.

[+Team_LPD]

A cacher, bird watcher, mushroom or berry picker who happens by a hunter IS NOT disturbing the hunter. The act must be of deliberate intent to interfere with the hunt.

 

Title 34

 

Sec. 2302. Interference with lawful taking of wildlife or other activities permitted by this title prohibited.

 

(a) General rule. - Except as otherwise provided in this title, it is unlawful for another person at the location where the activity is taking place to intentionally obstruct or interfere with the lawful taking of wildlife or other activities permitted by this title.

 

(a.1) Activities which violate section. - A person violates this section when he intentionally or knowingly:

 

(1) drives or disturbs wildlife for the purpose of disrupting the lawful taking of wildlife where another person is engaged in the process of lawfully taking wildlife or other permitted activities;

 

(2) blocks, impedes or otherwise harasses another person who is engaged in the process of lawfully taking wildlife or other permitted activities;

 

(3) uses natural or artificial visual, aural, olfactory or physical stimuli to affect wildlife behavior in order to hinder or prevent the lawful taking of wildlife or other permitted activities;

 

(4) creates or erects barriers with the intent to deny ingress or egress to areas where the lawful taking of wildlife or other permitted activities may occur;

 

(5) interjects himself into the line of fire;

 

(6) affects the condition or placement of personal or public property intended for use in the lawful taking of wildlife or other permitted activities in order to impair its usefulness or prevent its use;

 

(7) enter or remain upon public lands or upon private lands without permission of the owner or their agent, with intent to violate this section; or

 

(8) fails to obey the order of any officer whose duty it is to enforce any of the laws of this Commonwealth where such officer observes any conduct which violates this section or has reasonable grounds to believe that any person intends to engage in such conduct.

 

( Enforcement and recovery of damages. - The commission or any person who is lawfully engaged in the taking, hunting or trapping of game or wildlife who is directly affected by a violation of this section may bring an action to restrain conduct declared unlawful in this section and to recover damages.

 

Exceptions. - The conduct declared unlawful in this section does not include any activities arising from lawful activity by other land uses, including farming, mining, forestry practices, recreation or any other activities when it is evident that such activities are not intended to violate this section.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Team LPD

[+Klatch]

Type too slow.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Klatch

[+dirtymartini]

A cacher, bird watcher, mushroom or berry picker who happens by a hunter IS NOT disturbing the hunter. The act must be of deliberate intent to interfere with the hunt.

 

Title 34

 

Sec. 2302. Interference with lawful taking of wildlife or other activities permitted by this title prohibited.

 

(a) General rule. - Except as otherwise provided in this title, it is unlawful for another person at the location where the activity is taking place to intentionally obstruct or interfere with the lawful taking of wildlife or other activities permitted by this title.

 

(a.1) Activities which violate section. - A person violates this section when he intentionally or knowingly:

 

(1) drives or disturbs wildlife for the purpose of disrupting the lawful taking of wildlife where another person is engaged in the process of lawfully taking wildlife or other permitted activities;

 

(2) blocks, impedes or otherwise harasses another person who is engaged in the process of lawfully taking wildlife or other permitted activities;

 

(3) uses natural or artificial visual, aural, olfactory or physical stimuli to affect wildlife behavior in order to hinder or prevent the lawful taking of wildlife or other permitted activities;

 

(4) creates or erects barriers with the intent to deny ingress or egress to areas where the lawful taking of wildlife or other permitted activities may occur;

 

(5) interjects himself into the line of fire;

 

(6) affects the condition or placement of personal or public property intended for use in the lawful taking of wildlife or other permitted activities in order to impair its usefulness or prevent its use;

 

(7) enter or remain upon public lands or upon private lands without permission of the owner or their agent, with intent to violate this section; or

 

(8) fails to obey the order of any officer whose duty it is to enforce any of the laws of this Commonwealth where such officer observes any conduct which violates this section or has reasonable grounds to believe that any person intends to engage in such conduct.

 

( Enforcement and recovery of damages. - The commission or any person who is lawfully engaged in the taking, hunting or trapping of game or wildlife who is directly affected by a violation of this section may bring an action to restrain conduct declared unlawful in this section and to recover damages.

 

Exceptions. - The conduct declared unlawful in this section does not include any activities arising from lawful activity by other land uses, including farming, mining, forestry practices, recreation or any other activities when it is evident that such activities are not intended to violate this section.

 

OK, I stand corrected. I have read that section of the code though. I guess it all depends on how the Enforcement officer wants to iterpret it. Like I said earlier, the NE regional office isn't really on our side. I felt I had two choices, either remove my caches before someone else did, or work with them. I chose the latter.

[+Lasagna]

Disagree with your last comment there ... If I, who have as much of right to be there as the next guy, happen to come across a hunter while I'm walking on the game lands, I am NOT interfering with a hunt regardless of the fact that I may not be hunting.

 

I believe the operable word is "intentional". If I set out to actively disrupt or prevent individuals from the legal use of the land, including hunting, then I am in violation of the law. If I happen to run across someone, well that's just his bad luck. If I stick around and continue to be a nuisance -- well then that's interfering. So, it's a fine line.

 

Either way, this guy is in the wrong for telling you that you can't be there and for making terroristic threats. He is attempting to interfere from my legal right to use these lands (it's bullying and extortion in it's purest form -- the individual has taken your property and threatening to hold it for ransom -- monetary or otherwise).

 

I, on the other hand, am also not stupid -- I don't go anywhere near game lands during hunting season -- too many opportunities for getting shot at.

 

As for your negotiating, whatever works for you.

 

As for the vocal group -- I think you'd find most hunters would run the other way from this character. Limiting the use of game lands would mean LESS tax dollars or tolerance for funding the lands and would mean MORE (much more) license fees from hunters. I doubt many hunters have ever run into a cacher -- and those that have may well not have known it unless that cacher was not following game land rules and wearing their appropriate orange. Sure, there are bad cachers -- but there are also plenty of bad hunters as well (I don't recall ever reading about a tragic "cacher" incident where a fellow cacher got "ammo canned" trying to get to a FTF -- but I do seem to recall quite a few "hunter" incidents). By and large I think both groups are full of mostly very responsible individuals and in most parts of this state, it would never be a problem.

[+dirtymartini]

Disagree with your last comment there ... If I, who have as much of right to be there as the next guy, happen to come across a hunter while I'm walking on the game lands, I am NOT interfering with a hunt regardless of the fact that I may not be hunting.

 

I believe the operable word is "intentional". If I set out to actively disrupt or prevent individuals from the legal use of the land, including hunting, then I am in violation of the law. If I happen to run across someone, well that's just his bad luck. If I stick around and continue to be a nuisance -- well then that's interfering. So, it's a fine line.

 

Either way, this guy is in the wrong for telling you that you can't be there and for making terroristic threats. He is attempting to interfere from my legal right to use these lands (it's bullying and extortion in it's purest form -- the individual has taken your property and threatening to hold it for ransom -- monetary or otherwise).

 

I, on the other hand, am also not stupid -- I don't go anywhere near game lands during hunting season -- too many opportunities for getting shot at.

 

As for your negotiating, whatever works for you.

 

As for the vocal group -- I think you'd find most hunters would run the other way from this character. Limiting the use of game lands would mean LESS tax dollars or tolerance for funding the lands and would mean MORE (much more) license fees from hunters. I doubt many hunters have ever run into a cacher -- and those that have may well not have known it unless that cacher was not following game land rules and wearing their appropriate orange. Sure, there are bad cachers -- but there are also plenty of bad hunters as well (I don't recall ever reading about a tragic "cacher" incident where a fellow cacher got "ammo canned" trying to get to a FTF -- but I do seem to recall quite a few "hunter" incidents). By and large I think both groups are full of mostly very responsible individuals and in most parts of this state, it would never be a problem.

 

As I have said before...I don't agree with their methods and tactics. But you are wrong on this statement"Limiting the use of game lands would mean LESS tax dollars or tolerance for funding the lands "

 

This is straight from the Game Commissions website;

 

Funded primarily by hunting and furtaker license sales; State Game Lands timber, mineral and oil/gas revenues; and a federal excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition; the Commission is almost entirely supported by hunters and trappers, or assets that have been procured with license dollars. The Commission does not receive state General Fund appropriations.

[+bottlecap]

Stick to your "guns" ditrymartini, I think you are handling this bad situation admiralbly.

While I agree that this jihad group is off thier rocker, cachers cannot bang heads with hunters, we'll lose, and have a really bad headache.

 

EDIT: You stated that you believe you know who the leader is. Invite him/her to the next event, so they can meet the "hunter hater, gameland destroying, garbage depositing, animals". It might change thier opinion if they went out on a hunt with us. I wish I had a count of how many empty shotgun shells I took out.

Edited May 3, 2006 by bottlecap

[Gear Boy]

This is straight from the Game Commissions website;

 

Funded primarily by hunting and furtaker license sales; State Game Lands timber, mineral and oil/gas revenues; and a federal excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition; the Commission is almost entirely supported by hunters and trappers, or assets that have been procured with license dollars. The Commission does not receive state General Fund appropriations.

 

I think there are 2 points that are still important to keep in mind here-

First is that other use is still considered legitimate

Second is that the state is considering charging user fees for all uses, which would completely nullify the jihadist claim of primacy based on funding.

 

I agree it is probably a good idea to have a notice on the cache description about the issue of hunting season (for any caches on SGL's, if only to be more aware of safety concerns when it is hunting season); but also that there are some rabid hunters who call themselves Jihadists who frequent these areas especially.

 

You have to wonder, though, if the NSA monitors for buzz words like "jihad". I know if I was running the NSA, I would want to have a web crawler like google searching for words like that, so I could pay closer attention to the actions of those who call themselves "Jihadists"

[+mtndave]

I usually stay away from this type of HOT topic but I am now compelled to do so. Although the original topic issue swayed away from the initial "threat" issue to to caches & cachers and migrated to the "Oh so tired" gameland useage issue, I think the following may realign our focus to the original topic line.

 

Below is an e-mail I sent to Headquarters addressing what I consider a possible suspicious message I received.

**********************************************************************************

 

Good evening to all at Geocaching.com

 

It is with regret and concern that after many years as part of the Geocaching Community I have to write this e-mail.

 

Recently the Northeastern region of Pennsylvania has experienced a series of “threats” from a group that insultingly refer to themselves as “Gamelandic Jihad”. The name in it’s self is repulsive.

 

Personally neither myself, nor any of my caches, to date have been threatened or held hostage. But many of my local Geocaching compatriots have been “warned”.

 

Today I received this (copy below) thru the geocaching web mail.

 

This looks a bit suspicious to me and I did not respond.

 

He is asking for hints to a cache that is not mine (but he thinks it is), he doesn't mention his name or handle or identify himself in any manner. Other than asking for a hint there is no normal, friendly cache-speak to be had.

 

I took a look at the profile and it is blotto, blank and devoid of any information and is one month to the day since the account was opened.

 

Oh yea, he can't even spell "clues" or "cache" right.

 

Just this Saturday we had a very successful event that drew together a large group of local cachers both new and old and offered a prime opportunity for newbies. The topic of “threats” was discussed and concerns run high.

 

I know that there are limitations to what you are able to do and applaud the open and liberal policies of Geocaching. It is my intent to alert you to what may or may not be abuse or malicious but something I consider suspicious.

 

Thank you for lending your ear and please keep doing what you do so well.

 

MtnDave

 

****************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

--This message was sent through http://www.geocaching.com --

 

hey can you give me some more cluse about the winds of change cach i couldnt find it

 

thanks

 

User's Profile:

>>>> HIDDEN FOR PRIVACY BY MtnDave <<<<

 

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This email was sent without a return email address. You will need to respond to this email through the Geocaching.com Web site. Visit http://www.geocaching.com and log in to respond to the message from your "my account page".

 

Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching.com

[+dirtymartini]

I spoke with a Jim Creasy in the Harrisburg Game Commission office about geocaching. According to him, geocaching is considered ILLEGAL on Game Commission lands. While he didn't come out and say it I got the impression we are tolerated right now as long as there are no complaints. He also mentioned they are working on making it legal, but they are short staffed and it is not on the top of their agenda. I will not be placing any more caches on game lands until all of this gets sorted out. The following are sections in the code where we would be in violation.

 

 

 

§ 135.41. State game lands.

(19) Use State game lands for any personal, organizational or commercial purpose other than the intended use as defined in section 722 of the act.

 

Sec. 2510. Littering and restrictions on vehicles.

 

(a) General rule. - It is unlawful for any person while hunting or furtaking or while on lands or waters open to hunting or furtaking to:

 

(1) Deposit or leave any garbage, bottles, cartons, containers, glass, paper or other rubbish or debris other than in a place or receptacle maintained for that purpose. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any spent shotgun shell or spent rifle shell casing which is ejected during normal hunting activities.

 

( Penalties. -

 

(1) When litter is transported from another location and is deposited on lands or waters open to hunting or furtaking, the violation is a summary offense of the third degree. Any person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of this paragraph shall pay twice the fine imposed for the first offense. A conviction for a violation of this section shall not bar any civil action by the property owner.

 

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1), any other violation of this section is a summary offense of the seventh degree.

 

(3) In addition to the fine imposed by section 925 (relating to jurisdiction and penalties), an additional fine of $10 may be imposed for each item of litter thrown, discarded, left, emitted or deposited in violation of this section.

 

© Definition. - As used in this section, the term "Normal hunting activities" shall not include a circumstance when a person has fired more than six rounds from a stationary position.

 

This is a link to a bill that would allow Sunday hunting that will further complicate things.

 

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/AL...05/0/HB0904.HTM

[+Grovere]

DM, I hope that things will work out with this. I am in that area often and I stop when I can to enjoy the area and to find caches. I am also a hunter that has no access to private property to hunt, so I use the Game Lands as well as the DCNR lands. I can tell you from past experence on SGL 57, there are some hunters there that have hunted there every since they started hunting, and think that they own the place. I had a problem there before with being there long before they were, I was there in the morning and they showed up in the afternoon. And point blankly to me to leave "their" hunting area. This was in 04 and I have just stayed away from 57 since during hunting season. I have not had any problems though on SGL's 13 or 66. I did speak to a GCO about the group and he just pushed it off as "some people are just teritoral".

 

And I was looking forward to exploring the area even more finding your caches. It's too bad that a few rotten apples have to spoil the fun and the area for the rest of us. If you need any help let me know and I'll do what I can.

[+Team_LPD]

The wording and/or meaning of the laws is vague at best.

 

Take the first one, taken on its face value, you would not be allowed to do anything on the SGL's except hunt or trap. No nature walks, berry picking, bird watching, no bike riding, horse riding, nothing of a personal nature outside hunting or trapping. Thats what the law says. So no Boy Scout/Girl Scout field trips......thats an organizational function, etc. I doubt that is the intended meaning of the law.

 

Which brings us to the second one, geocache containers as litter. I highly doubt someone could claim discarded beer bottles, soda bottles, old tires, stoves, etc are in the same category as geocache containers which can be traced back to the owner.

 

There is such a thing as the intent of the law versus the word of the law.

[+packim]

Interesting thread....a little behind the current news but got a heads-up from DM when I met him at the recent NEPA event...

 

Hate to open perhaps more of a can of worms, but this story I share may have similar ties to your SGL 57 pirated caches, DM (or it may be bored or pranking teens)

 

This weekend I cruised over to the Wallenpaupack area for some caching, and did a great and enjoyable EIGHT-part multi on what I believe are State Game Lands (I checked the cache description but it does not say) In any event, it was next to a Rifle (target) Range, which I think may be cause enough to "piss-off" some folks...as I parked there and walked near their range.

 

Here is the cache name and code PIRATE TREASURE GCTYR9

 

Anyway, after completing it Sat afternoon (and I noticed no one else in the woods stalking me), the final ammo-can part has disappeared in the last day or so....it was well-disguised in a hollowed-out log.

Now the question is:

Who would complete 8 small parts then arrange the clues which were in a puzzle format to get to the cache?

Or was someone stalked by anti-caching types to the final? Or, was the last part actually stumbled upon? (It was well-off-trail)

 

I have a personal gripe because I lost 2 new geocoins that I just registered that day....

But I am more concerned because a nearby cache I found also went missing...this one off a Hiking Trail (Blooming Grove)

WTF?

packim

[+eaglespirit0]

The SGL's near Hawley have been notoriously plagued by hunters who more or less have an extreme dislike for geocachers. The area has also been victim of a few local SGL officers who have taken it into their own hands to make rules about cachers on game lands without state approval.

 

- JD

[+Team Lucky]

Here's hoping y'all get this worked out, satisfactory to both you AND the hunters. As a hunter of both caches and game myself I am sympathetic to both sides. What I'm NOT sympathetic to is the heavy handed tactics of this "jihad".

 

I hunt WV, and cache in PA. I've run into hunters and never had a problem. But then again, I'm one of "Them".

I usually do not write in any forums, but I chose to this time. I hunted all of my life since 12 years old, and have cached for a little over a year. I feel I can speak on both sides. Cachers who aren't hunters probably can't understand while a hunter would get upset at their presence. Most hunters for example, during the deer season, only get to out in the woods the first day, and the following two Saturdays. We, as cachers usually have many opportunities, including evenings, and Sunday's. There isn't a worse feeling for a hunter to be in a stand since 4AM or so, and have someone walk by making noise, talking loudly, etc. If we respect the hunter, he may respect us.

I think maybe all of this started as harsh as it did, was maybe whoever the Gamelandic guy is, wanted to get our attention. Let's try to get along better with hunters, stop wasting time writing, and get out and find more caches... Let's try to respect the 3 main seasons.

[hprover47]

I'm new to the whole caching thing, but have been hiking in SGLs for years. I've never had a problem with a hunter. I'd like to think that its because I follow some self imposed guidelines. During open deer season I don't set foot in the woods. For the vast majority of the year I have access to the forest unmolested by hunters, and I think it is only fair to give them a few weeks to do their thing without having to worry about me. I think that most hunters are mature and responsible about their hunting, but there is a small minority that falls into the "drunken redneck" category. That minority seems to appear during regular deer season and I don't want to be anywhere near them. I also follow the attire guidelines for whatever hunting season is currently under way. If the hunters are wearing orange, I wear orange. If they are wearing camo, I wear camo. I don't make undue noise in the woods because I am partially there to see the same wildlife that they are there to kill. Finally, I don't see why hunters should get so upset by geocaching. 90% of the time I'm in the woods I don't see a soul. Most of the hunters I do see can't be bothered to venture more that half a mile from their car. Hide your caches deep in the forest and respect the busy hunting seasons and we should all get along fine. The few hunters I have encountered in the woods are more concerned with where and when I have seen wildlife than with what I'm doing there to begin with.

[+edscott]

I hunt and I geocache. I think it is interesting that some hunters seem to think others always push the game away from them and not to them. I guess they need someone to blame for their inaptitude.

[+rhelt100]

I hunt and I geocache. I think it is interesting that some hunters seem to think others always push the game away from them and not to them. I guess they need someone to blame for their inaptitude.

 

 

At the risk of digging up a dead topic, I wanted to tell everybody the new goings on with the SGL lands in southwestern PA. A geocacher, who seems from his description to be employed with whatever agency manages the SGL (listed occupation is wildlife), has planted caces in 10 SGLs down here. Once a cacher finds all 10, they are given coordinates to a special cache with 'above and beyond" contents.

 

 

Here is one of them SGL 259. The description contains "Welcome to a series of State Game Land Caches. These caches have been placed throughout the Southwest Region of the Pa. Game Commission. They are designed to promote more use of State Game Lands especially during the off hunting seasons. For more information on State Game Lands visit www.pgc.state.pa.us."

[+The Leprechauns]

I was excited to see this series pop up. Thanks for bumping the thread. I think the new cache series clearly demonstrates the position of the Game Commission, at least in our region. I hope everyone makes a special point of thanking them when logging finds after enjoying the nice hikes, and also mentioning any CITO efforts that they undertake.

 

This series follows the increasingly popular trend among smart land managers to encourage cache placements on their property, or even to place their own caches. See the West Virginia State Parks, the Ohio State Parks and the Cleveland MetroParks for other nearby examples. Geocachers are the type of people that land managers WANT to see using and enjoying their properties.