Jump to content

Lowrance Gps


deadeye1122

Recommended Posts

have been reading the forums for awhile trying to decide a brand of gps to buy and agree garmin and magellan are the most popular gps to have. anybody use lowrance product? just curious, the buyer for a midwest sportings good chain,who i talk with occasionally said they are the easiest to learn and use. any thoughts? i don't want it for geocaching exclusivley but for fishingand maybe some auto use also. thanks for your input.

Link to comment

have been reading the forums for awhile trying to decide a brand of gps to buy and agree garmin and magellan are the most popular gps to have. anybody use lowrance product? just curious, the buyer for a midwest sportings good chain,who i talk with occasionally said they are the easiest to learn and use. any thoughts? i don't want it for geocaching exclusivley but for fishingand maybe some auto use also. thanks for your input.

I'm real happy with the Ifinder H2O Plus I got a few months ago, I use it for fishing, trail riding/hiking and geocaching. It would be nice if it had auto routing, but I usually turn off some of the map detail like topo and waterways so it only shows roads on the screen for navigating unfamiliar territory.

Some of the drawbacks I've noticed: big and heavy, power hungy (12 hrs on Nimh), low alarm volume, and if the batteries die in the woods it takes forever for it to reacquire position fix after putting fresh batteries in.

Some of my likes:

large screen - I'm over 40 and need reading glasses for close work

large buttons - cloth gloves friendly

expandable memory - a 400x300 mile map fits on 256Mb card on highest detail setting

good reception - on the rare occasion that it loses sat fix it usually regains lock in a few seconds

great price

Link to comment

Many Lowrance units are great. The above mentioned H20 is one of the best deals around if you get the Plus package with mapping included. The H20 might be the best pure geocaching GPS unit available. It however doesn't do autorouting so its not great for auto use. It does show roads and with the Plus package has a database of millions of services (hotels, fuel, restaurants, etc...) and you can use the maps and direction arrow to find your way to these places, but it does not autoroute,meaning turn by turn directions to your destination.

 

I disagree with the thought that Lowrance units are the easiest to use. In fact I found them to be the toughest.

If you are the kind of person who can't program your VCR the Lowrance uints might be a challenge, but if you are tech savvy at all, you can figure them out.

 

I believe that Garmin units are the easiest. Garmin's icon driven menu system is familiar to most PC users and quite intuative. Lowrance units tend bury many of thier features in odd places. If you want your unit to do autorouting, consider something like the Garmin Legend C, CX or the Map 60 and 76 series.

 

Moderator mode

Moving this the the GPS Units and Software forum

Link to comment

I am a very satisfied Lowrance user (AirMap 500, or i-Finder with wings.) I will agree with Brian, the interface will take a little getting used to, and has a higher learning curve than a Garmin. They have an easy mode, which simplifies the features, but I never use it.

 

Overall, Lowrance units offer more for the money in navigation performance. No auto-routing means it not the best on road trips, but I've used mine for 400+ mile trips in the car, and did just fine. It just takes a little "Pre-planning."

 

As for Geocaching, the newer Lowrance units are better than mine, and I consider mine excellent. Satellite reception blows my Garmin out of the water under tree cover. The detailed mapping gives me a good idea of the terrain/ access roads before I even get there.

Link to comment

I have an Eagle explorer gps (now known as Lowrance). I purchaced it way back in '97 and have been very satisfied with it. Like mentioned, it has a larger screen than most and was easy for me to learn from the manual. It does not however have any type of road maps or other extras in todays gps's. Basically its put in the coords. and follow to the destination.

Link to comment

I see Lowrance has several color models in their line now, if they get around to offering auto routing I would consider buying one to give it a try.

 

JV,

 

You might want to look for an iWay 100. It's the auto routiong version of the H2O mono chrome. You might be able to snatch one now for under $150 and it will come with MapCreate 6.3 and all the CDs at that price. It does it all, has the same beautiful Lowrance screen, antenna and maps. I have my suspicions that since the unit is the same otherwise as the H2O, Hunt, and PHD that you could rename the firmware upgrade file and actually convert it over to any one of them.

 

My experience is that it equals the Garmin 76 color unit for auto routing but it uses voice instructions (turn left in 500 feet onto xxx street) instead of beeps. The only question I have about the unit is that it seems to be hard on batteries when used for caching. I have never tried to prove it, or compared measured drain though. It doesn't necessarily make sense that it should be harder on batteries than the iFinder Hunt which has a voice memo (and thus the audio circuits) capability, or the PHD.

 

Otherwise, it's fully equal to the Hunt or H2O models which I also use except for the barometer in the hunt.

Link to comment

I should have mentioned I am more interested in a smaller unit like the I-Finders.

Thanks anyway.

 

JV,

 

That's what I am telling you. It's the same unit as the iFinder H2o, Hunt or PHD. Same size same buttons, same cig. cable will run all the regular size iFinders. It's an iFinder with voice auto routing. Same waterproofing, same everything. There is no pages button on the Iway, it's the "speak" button instead.

 

It comes with a speaker on the Cig plug, but I use the power cables interchangeably

Link to comment

I researched for 1 month and was ready to buy a Garmin, then an Magellan, then a different Garmin, then a different Magellan, then I read about the Lowrance. I have the H2O(plus). I love it. Locks on great, stays locked on, great screen, great backlight. I have not had problems with it being power hungry either, but I don't leave it on all day. I turn it on intermittently until I actually need it to be on. I have the cigarette lighter adapter for the automobile. I use mine for Geocaching, road trips, will use it in the mountains this summer and fall. I had an eagle explorer for years and finally upgraded to the H2O late last year. Get the Plus (with MapCreate) for sure if you want to navigate city streets, and have map contours, etc. I have no problem finding where I am going in a foreign place. I set a waypoint for my destination and follow the roads on the screen. Auto routing would be great but I get along just fine without it. I can look up hotels, restaurants, all kinds of stuff, and the phone number and address is all right there on the GPS (you need MapCreate to do this). It is best to have a navigator so you aren't driving with a GPS in your hand.

 

Dislikes.......it is a little big for those who want to go light, but the size accomodates the larger-better resolution screen.

It is a little hard to learn, but my learning curve was not as steep as someone new to the Lowrance because the eagle explorer I had was very similar. I do agree with the VCR comment.

 

Good luck.

Link to comment

Never heard of an Autorouting Lowrance handheld till, I heard about the iWay 100.

 

Seems like it has been discontinued tough.

 

Works like a Garmin, and uses Navtech too.

 

-

Geoff

 

Thanks for the link Geoff

Now I know why I was not able to find it. I wonder why Lowrance has not kept the auto routing in there new versions. The I finder H2O would be trying out with auto routing. We are not stocking Lowrance products now, but I am giving them some thought.

Edited by JohnnyVegas
Link to comment

After much research, I settled on the iFinder H20C. The reports of solid satelite reception and big screen attracted me, and the expandable memory was the kicker. I've only had it about two weeks, but have had a blast playing with it. It seems to be very accurate (has gotten me within about 15 feet of each cache I've found), and has been pretty easy to use -- despite my newbee status. Haven't added the detailed maps yet, but plan to soon.

 

Jonathan

Link to comment

have been reading the forums for awhile trying to decide a brand of gps to buy and agree garmin and magellan are the most popular gps to have. anybody use lowrance product? just curious, the buyer for a midwest sportings good chain,who i talk with occasionally said they are the easiest to learn and use. any thoughts? i don't want it for geocaching exclusivley but for fishingand maybe some auto use also. thanks for your input.

I'm real happy with the Ifinder H2O Plus I got a few months ago, I use it for fishing, trail riding/hiking and geocaching. It would be nice if it had auto routing, but I usually turn off some of the map detail like topo and waterways so it only shows roads on the screen for navigating unfamiliar territory.

Some of the drawbacks I've noticed: big and heavy, power hungy (12 hrs on Nimh), low alarm volume, and if the batteries die in the woods it takes forever for it to reacquire position fix after putting fresh batteries in.

Some of my likes:

large screen - I'm over 40 and need reading glasses for close work

large buttons - cloth gloves friendly

expandable memory - a 400x300 mile map fits on 256Mb card on highest detail setting

good reception - on the rare occasion that it loses sat fix it usually regains lock in a few seconds

great price

Link to comment

Can any of you Lowrance owners share your thoughts on the ifinder h2o verses the magellan explorist 210 for geocaching?

I have come down to these two models but there are no good sources near me so I can't really see one in person before I order it online...

Thanks.

 

- Chad

Link to comment

Can any of you Lowrance owners share your thoughts on the ifinder h2o verses the magellan explorist 210 for geocaching?

I have come down to these two models but there are no good sources near me so I can't really see one in person before I order it online...

Thanks.

 

- Chad

 

The eXplorist is going to be smaller. The H20 on the other hand has expandable memory.

Link to comment

I use the ifinder H2O and recently got my daughter the ifinder map and music. Both of these are great GPS. I looked around and compared bang for the buck and Lowrance was on top almost every time for me. Good thing I didn't go on the hipe for magellan or Garmin because I would have missed out on a great GPS. As far as ease of use my daughter got her map and music the other night. I handed her the book and said read through it to learn about your gps. I figured the next day when we was going caching she would need help with the gps so I left mine at home to help her. Well we got to every cache that day because of her leading us around with no help from dad oh and by the way she is only 8.

Link to comment
Thanks guys, that should help me with my decision. One isn't more accurate than the other, or keep a signal better than the other, is it?

 

- Chad

 

Lowrance is credited with holding signal lock better. Accuracy is another issue, and I would rather believe the Lowrance is more accurate, but in general, all units have about the same accuracy.

Link to comment

Thanks to everyone that answersd my post. After reading all the replys and looking at the lowrance i 20 plus sitting in front of me un-opened that i had already purchased i just couldn't take it any more. thru the batteries in and away i went. got me to with in 6 feet of the nearest caches in town so the gps says. to cold and no boots to get out of the car so i can't say that i have found a cache, but i know it's there. to everyone that reply to my post and to all geocacher's THANK YOU. deadeye

Link to comment

Never heard of an Autorouting Lowrance handheld till, I heard about the iWay 100.

 

Seems like it has been discontinued tough.

 

Works like a Garmin, and uses Navtech too.

 

-

Geoff

 

Thanks for the link Geoff

Now I know why I was not able to find it. I wonder why Lowrance has not kept the auto routing in there new versions. The I finder H2O would be trying out with auto routing. We are not stocking Lowrance products now, but I am giving them some thought.

 

I asked Lowrance about that when I was considering buying my IWAY 100M they told me there just was not a demand for it. I think they just wanted to plug their new color versions. The autorouting is fantastic, it comes with Mapcreat 6 and a 128MB SD card. I put a max detail map of almost all of Florida on it and still had 8MB left for waypoints. I have not had a problemd with it yet. The model si disontinued but according to their tech support phone line they are offering a software update due out March '06

Link to comment

Congrats deadeye on your new gpsr!

I don't want to hijack your thread but I thought that since there are so many Lowrance users already here... :cute:

I'm just wondering if people enter their cach waypoints manually or download them from the computer directly to the unit or card reader. I've noticed that the h2o doesn't come with a computer interface cable while the explorist 210 does. Is this something that I should worry about or no? I have gotten quotes for both units at exactly the same price ($150US). I hope I'm not bugging anyone... I'm sure that neither of these units are junk.

Thanks,

 

- Chad

Link to comment

Congrats deadeye on your new gpsr!

I don't want to hijack your thread but I thought that since there are so many Lowrance users already here... :cute:

I'm just wondering if people enter their cach waypoints manually or download them from the computer directly to the unit or card reader. I've noticed that the h2o doesn't come with a computer interface cable while the explorist 210 does. Is this something that I should worry about or no? I have gotten quotes for both units at exactly the same price ($150US). I hope I'm not bugging anyone... I'm sure that neither of these units are junk.

Thanks,

 

- Chad

 

I use GSAK to create a usr file and transfer it to the card. I then place the card into my H2O and load the data. No big deal since I only do it weekly. It isn't that much harder than attaching a cable to the unit. The card is located below the batteries and I change them weekly so I do it all at the same time.

Link to comment
I'm just wondering if people enter their cache waypoints manually or download them from the computer directly to the unit or card reader. I've noticed that the h2o doesn't come with a computer interface cable while the explorist 210 does. Is this something that I should worry about or no?

 

I load waypoints to the card, then load them into the unit. My older unit will take 500 at a time, but with the card I can store thousands in different files.

 

The Lowrance Plus packages come with the equipment (Hardware and Software) for mapping and data transfer.

 

For Example my AirMap (and the i-Finders) can accept a data cable, but for most data transfer it's easier to use the SD card. You can transfer a lot of waypoint files and maps over the card to the unit. It is sometimes annoying to have to take out the batteries and transfer, but it beats the heck out of typing them in. If you want a standard cable, they are available. In my opinion it's not much hassle, I even do my digital camera that way, I'll get the SD card and transfer using my Lowrance reader over using the cameras cable.

Link to comment

Remember that the Plus version includes Topo software that you won't get with the 210. Add 80 bucks to the 210 price.

 

That said, the 210 is certainly the easier unit to use. If you have trouble programming your VCR, you should get the 210. If you are techweenie like me, the Lowrance units are great. Let me tell you what I did today. I went on a hike to try to find 1947 blimp wreckage. I set my Expedition to set a track point every second (I can have up to 10000 points per track and aroun 60000 points total I think). When I came back, I saved the data to my card from the unit's memory, and then dumped the data file to my computer using the LEI cardreader. I used GPSbabel to convert the usr to a GPX formated XML file. Then in Google Earth Plus I opened the GPX file and was able to overlay my track on the Google earth display. I also use the 3dsolar addons kml for Google earth and was able to overlay a semi-transparent topo map over the photo and my track. It rocks.

 

Lowrance really lock on quick and don't lose lock easily. I am not going back to my Magellan Sportrak Map.

 

Plus I have almost a gigabyte of good quality topo maps on my SD card in addition to over 600 geocache waypoints that are processed via GSAK. You can have as many different files of caches as you want as long as each one is less than or equal to 1000 waypoints (although if you have the Hunt, you can have 2000 waypoints).

 

I am totally happy with this. It isn't as user friendly as the gargellan offerings, but it outdoes them in other ways.

 

 

Thanks fellas, I guess having to buy the "plus" creates more of a difference in price between it and the explorist. I am just about ready to make my purchase... then I'll be buggin everyone with completely new questions :cute:

 

- Chad

Link to comment

i am new on here as well, and i have the ifinder h20, and i had a chance to play with the garmin etrex for a week as well, the etrex does what it is made for well... the h2o does a very good job on the lock and accuracy, and the screen is decent to read. It is a little bulkier, and the back light eats batteries for a snack when left on. Unfortunately i didn't get the plus package, which would have been wiser, i live in ontario canada and the base map is very sparse.

 

That being said, it is a great handheld, the memory is good, the graphics are decent, the lock on is decent, it has waas, and is dgps ready, it can accept external antennas, powered or passive, it is waterproof, what else can i say? As with all gps's it seems the manufacturer makes a ton of money on the accessories such as data cords, maps etc.

 

Really enjoying the side... does anyone know the pinouts for the ifinder h20?

Link to comment

So should I get the Lowrance H2O plus or get an older Iway??

 

I have both. They are no different for caching. The iWay talks and routes.

 

If you can still find the iWay under $150 yet, that's a hell of a unit with unsurpassed mapping for very little money.

Link to comment

Thanks Miles. I will get the IWAY soon (I see it for sale still at quite a few places). I was reading that the IWAY needs an external antenna to do a good job at locking on the satellites (but that was a guy complaining about using the device in his car). If you are saying that it is the same in the H2O, then I believe you.

 

I might see about getting some kind of clip on external boosting antenna maybe, and put that into my backpack, to allow a better lock on, while out looking for really difficult "under tree cover, and between rock cliff faces" caches.

 

Hopefully when I use it in my car I will not do that commercial where I follow the directions and turn into the building.

 

Why do you have both??

 

So should I get the Lowrance H2O plus or get an older Iway??

 

I have both. They are no different for caching. The iWay talks and routes.

 

If you can still find the iWay under $150 yet, that's a hell of a unit with unsurpassed mapping for very little money.

Link to comment

I was just reading

 

Iway 100M has 12 channels

H2O plus B&W display has 12 channels

H2O Plus Color has 16 channels

 

So I think the new color has the most channels for reception of satillites.

 

Then I need to decide if I want the AUTOROUTING function of the Iway 100M portable, or do I want the 16 channel fast accuracy of the Color with the color display.

Link to comment

I have four of them actually, plus one gargellan left over from the dark days.

 

The 12 vs 16 channels comparison is useless. You will only use four or five anyway, no matter how many you can pick up. I don't know it for a fact, but I think a person could probably rename the firmware updates ande it would run and convert the unit to whatever the update was for. I think the hardware is functionally identical. Accuracy is identical amonst them all.

 

The iWay (talking Judy) is good for in the car, and just as accurate as the H2O or the Hunt for caching. All three can use the cig lighter plug from either of the others and all that happens is talking Judy loses her voice if I use the H20's or the Hunt's cable because they don't have a speaker in it even though the Hunt has voice memos.

 

Buy the iWay. You get them maps, a chip reader, a memory chip and the GPSr for really cheap.

Link to comment

If you want to use the latest version of Mapcreate (6.3), you will need the LEI card reader but many SD brands will work. I have a PNY I think that I got from Newegg. If you just want to store waypoints and tracks and voice recordings and mp3 files on the card then any card reader will do.

 

Edit: To clarify that only Mapcreate 6.3 requires the LEI cardreader.

 

Ok,

I have a new question. Can I use any SD card and reader or do I need to buy the Lowrance one? For example, would this work:

http://cgi.ebay.com/512MB-SD-Card-SD-MMC-U...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Thanks

Edited by synergicity
Link to comment

Which GPS chips do the lowrance use? I wanted to see if any handheld GPS is using the new SirfIII chipset.

 

 

 

I have four of them actually, plus one gargellan left over from the dark days.

 

The 12 vs 16 channels comparison is useless. You will only use four or five anyway, no matter how many you can pick up. I don't know it for a fact, but I think a person could probably rename the firmware updates ande it would run and convert the unit to whatever the update was for. I think the hardware is functionally identical. Accuracy is identical amonst them all.

 

The iWay (talking Judy) is good for in the car, and just as accurate as the H2O or the Hunt for caching. All three can use the cig lighter plug from either of the others and all that happens is talking Judy loses her voice if I use the H20's or the Hunt's cable because they don't have a speaker in it even though the Hunt has voice memos.

 

Buy the iWay. You get them maps, a chip reader, a memory chip and the GPSr for really cheap.

Link to comment

So should I get the Lowrance H2O plus or get an older Iway??

 

I have both. They are no different for caching. The iWay talks and routes.

 

If you can still find the iWay under $150 yet, that's a hell of a unit with unsurpassed mapping for very little money.

 

Is the iWay waterproof? The H20 is and I think that is a concern for geocaching.

Link to comment

So should I get the Lowrance H2O plus or get an older Iway??

 

I have both. They are no different for caching. The iWay talks and routes.

 

If you can still find the iWay under $150 yet, that's a hell of a unit with unsurpassed mapping for very little money.

 

Is the iWay waterproof? The H20 is and I think that is a concern for geocaching.

 

Brian,

 

The iWay 100m is physically almost identical to the H2O. It has the same waterproofing design so I assume it's IPX7 as well. Because of the voice function and the "speak" button, the setting of a waypoint is slightly different, but it still offers instant and averaged waypoints.

Link to comment

So should I get the Lowrance H2O plus or get an older Iway??

 

I have both. They are no different for caching. The iWay talks and routes.

 

If you can still find the iWay under $150 yet, that's a hell of a unit with unsurpassed mapping for very little money.

 

Is the iWay waterproof? The H20 is and I think that is a concern for geocaching.

 

Brian,

 

The iWay 100m is physically almost identical to the H2O. It has the same waterproofing design so I assume it's IPX7 as well. Because of the voice function and the "speak" button, the setting of a waypoint is slightly different, but it still offers instant and averaged waypoints.

 

I've been looking at the Lowrance H2O units for geocaching and I like what I'm reading in here. I had not even heard of the iWay 100 before reading this thread, and I must say that it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for - geocaching and autorouting for a great price. I just have one question...

 

Does the iWay 100 have a compas heading/bearing screen like other "typical" outdoor GPSr units?

 

We typically use the compas screen on the Magellan Meridian Gold unit we've been borrowing from a friend while looking for caches. The Lowrance emulator for the H20 has this screen, but it doesn't show up in the iWay 100 manual you can down load from Lowrance. If the iWay 100 has the compass screen, then it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for! :laughing:

Link to comment

 

I've been looking at the Lowrance H2O units for geocaching and I like what I'm reading in here. I had not even heard of the iWay 100 before reading this thread, and I must say that it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for - geocaching and autorouting for a great price. I just have one question...

 

Does the iWay 100 have a compas heading/bearing screen like other "typical" outdoor GPSr units?

 

We typically use the compas screen on the Magellan Meridian Gold unit we've been borrowing from a friend while looking for caches. The Lowrance emulator for the H20 has this screen, but it doesn't show up in the iWay 100 manual you can down load from Lowrance. If the iWay 100 has the compass screen, then it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for! :P

 

I don't really know if the iWay 100m has that. In fact, I have never used the compass heading/bearing screen on any of my other Lowrances. The way I use them for caching is to just use the map screen customized with the Ground Speed, EPE, Altitude at the bottom. With a Lowrance, if the EPE is <30 feet, then watch the GS and Altitude. If the Altitude jumps less than about ten feet you have a very good fix. If the Ground Speed jumps much at all you have a bad fix. With both stable you just walk the pointer onto the waypoint you have selected and keep bumping the range down until you have .02 range and the pointer is on the waypoint. With it set like that, I find that most of the time with stable GS and Alt when the pointer is on the cache I am within six feet of the cache, and often enough within two feet. When the Hider had a bad fix, this show up pretty obviously.

 

When I set waypoints I average them. When I come back to my waypoints I set like this and had good signal, I find I am always dead on. Fixes made like that are so accurate I can return to specific prairie plants I want without fail. Entering a waypoint someone else has supplied the numbers for leaves you with the +/- one digit accuracy limitation of the GPS itself which in my area gives me about an 8 foot by 12 foot box. If the cache falls outside that box I will normally note it and provide averaged numbers for the posit. No cachers have ever made note of position error from positions I have averaged.

 

I do on occasion use an external antenna velcroed onto a long stick to get a good signal when I am under hear foliage or subject to multipathing.

Link to comment

 

I don't really know if the iWay 100m has that. In fact, I have never used the compass heading/bearing screen on any of my other Lowrances. The way I use them for caching is to just use the map screen customized with the Ground Speed, EPE, Altitude at the bottom. With a Lowrance, if the EPE is <30 feet, then watch the GS and Altitude. If the Altitude jumps less than about ten feet you have a very good fix. If the Ground Speed jumps much at all you have a bad fix. With both stable you just walk the pointer onto the waypoint you have selected and keep bumping the range down until you have .02 range and the pointer is on the waypoint. With it set like that, I find that most of the time with stable GS and Alt when the pointer is on the cache I am within six feet of the cache, and often enough within two feet. When the Hider had a bad fix, this show up pretty obviously.

 

When I set waypoints I average them. When I come back to my waypoints I set like this and had good signal, I find I am always dead on. Fixes made like that are so accurate I can return to specific prairie plants I want without fail. Entering a waypoint someone else has supplied the numbers for leaves you with the +/- one digit accuracy limitation of the GPS itself which in my area gives me about an 8 foot by 12 foot box. If the cache falls outside that box I will normally note it and provide averaged numbers for the posit. No cachers have ever made note of position error from positions I have averaged.

 

I do on occasion use an external antenna velcroed onto a long stick to get a good signal when I am under hear foliage or subject to multipathing.

 

Thanks for the info and the hints on customization. Upon further digging into the iWay manual I found the following statement under the heading "Disable/Enable TBT (Turn-by-Turn)":

 

"When Turn-by-Turn navigation is disabled, the iWAY will offer additional

menu options and map display behavior that is unnecessary in Turn-by-

Turn mode. These features are detailed fully in the iFINDER H2O manual

available for free download from our website at the following address:

http://www.lowrance.com/Manuals/"

 

This sure makes it sound like the iWay 100 is a souped up version of the iFinder H20.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...