synergicity

Lots of folks here use the Lowerance ExpeditionC and H20C which are littermates to the HuntC. They are great for geocaching and should do everything you need and more. I have used the Mapcreate software and it is as good and as bad as the others topo software offerings. Nothing great but better than no topo. The newer "C" units use a different chipset than the older H20 and Hunt. They acquire satellites quickly and hold lock through even old growth forest. I have the ExpeditionC and have been very pleased with it. I have most of Northern CA, Oregon, and Washington on a 1 gig SD card with plenty of room for tracks and waypoints. I haven't found it to be much of a problem to remove the batteries and card when I need to. And you don't need special cards, only their card reader, and then only very briefly. Lowrance handhelds probably provide the most "bang for your buck." Plan on spending 100-200 more to get a Garmin with software and equivalent capabilities. And the Garmin display is not nearly as nice as the Lowrance. One thing you can't do with the Lowrance handhelds is autoroute, so if that is an important consideration, consider getting a Garmin or Magellan.

I can confirm the same behavior, I couldn't get it to drop the waypoint any other way.

I can vouch that the Expedition does well under cover (solid locks in the old and second growth redwood forests where I live, my Magellan Sportrak Map did not maintain lock on the same trails), and from posts here, it sounds like the other two do fine as well. The Garmin and Magellan offer autorouting with the right software purchase (but add around $100 for that). But without software those two are at least $100 more than the Lowrance. For the price of the 76CSX and the XL you get the Expedition and the MapCreate Topo software. So if you want autorouting, is it worth almost $200? I think the Explorist has a triaxial compass, which the other two don't. That's kind of nice so you don't have to hold the unit flat to use the magnetic compass. The Expedition and the XL have the same number of pixels on their displays, but the XL has a larger display (XL 3.5", Expedition 2.83", 76 2.6"). The 76csx has lower resolution (by quite a bit) than the other two. (XL and Expedition are 320x240 and 76 is 160x240). So the Expedition has the highest resolution and the XL the largest screen. The Lowrance and the Garmin use 2 AA batteries and the XL uses 4 AA. I get 12 hours more or less with 2500 mah rechargeables with the backlight on continuously. I think the others quote 18 hours typical use, but that is with the backlight off. Those differences aside, I bet your deciding factor might be who has the better chart options, if the boat backup is important, or which unit you are used to using already, or have software for.

That's interesting, the Lowrance website states that the Expedition and the HuntC come with MapCreate 6.3 but the H2OC links to the older version of MapCreate. However if you use the "Plus package" link from the H2OC blurb on the outdoor unit page you get this description: http://www.lowrance.com/Outdoor/Products/Plus/plus.asp So I bet you get the Topo with the H2OC. Call them if you have doubts.

I have a standing offer to open mine up if you will paypal me the replacement cost.

I think you are right about the difference between the h2oC and the Expedition. I have the Expedition and don't really care about the music playing and altimeter. I do like the compass though. lowrance.com has a good comparator so you can line up several models side by side. As far as the MapCreate software, the topo has 50 ft divisions. I have some not so great photos of it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gtinseth/sets...57594063528727/ so you can get an idea what the display looks like (which is amazing on the Expedition). It has the highest resolution of any handheld with 240 x 320 in 2.83 inches diagonal. And the color is great. I use rechargeable NiMH Powerex 2500 mah batteries and get close to 12 hours with the backlight on continuously. For the SD card, I have all of Oregon, Washington, California, and parts of Nevada and Arizona which take up 700 MB. And you can have tracks with up to 9999 points, several of them. And I have several files with up to 1000 waypoints each on the card. The tracks and geocache waypoints take up very little space. Also Lee Rimar has outlined a way to avoid the hassle of registering SD cards with the MapCreate software, so that is no longer an issue either. The bottom line is unless you need autorouting, there is no better value in GPS than the H2OC and Expedition. They have the same SIRF III chipset as the new Garmins, better topo software, higher screen resolution, standard SD cards, great customer service with real people from Oklahoma, all at less than 2/3 the cost of Garmin. For $350 you get the Expedition, the topo software and card reader, and a 1 gb card (which you buy yourself).

Interesting about the negative reviews of the Lowrance accuracy. They have reception on par with the new "x" Garmin units and are generally known for getting and keeping satellite lock in all kinds of cover. I use my Expedition in the deep redwood forests (can't get much more difficult reception than that) and it does great. All consumer (i.e., non-pro) units have approximately equal accuracy unless there is a problem with the unit. Garmins are known for an optimistic EPE while Lowrance is generally much more conservative. Both will put you right on top of the cache quite often as will the Magellan. Accuracy is usually a function of $$ spent. Each meter you gain in accuracy can cost $1000 or more. Hopefully some of the other happy Lowrance owners will chime in. We are few but very satisfied. Plus for around 300 bucks I got my Expedition and the MapCreate topo software. Not gonna happen with a Garmin C$X. You will be missing autorouting (turn by turn driving instructions) with the Lowrance units. If that is important, I hear that Garmin is the one to beat for a dual purpose caching/autorouting handheld. But to do both you will need to make 2 software purchases, one for topo and one for routing.

No, track points are just sequential coordinates. If you set up the track to be time based (like a point every second) then you have an implied timestamp. On the speedometer, if you press the zoom in or zoom out buttons, you change the top speed on the meter.

With my Expedition (big brother to the H20C) I get almost 12 hours with NiMH 2500 mah rechargables with the the backlight on continuously.

And, what briansnat said isn't exactly totally true. Three weeks ago, I had 12 regular satellites hooked up and one WAAS as well. 12 + 1 = 13 which I couldn't have done with only 12 channels. Now I'm not sure how it helped my positional accuracy, but it sure did make me feel special!

So I guess there's no use in us buying you one to try out now Z Ah, but which brands are good? I will be willing to test a variety of 2 gb cards at no extra charge!

Don't worry about it. As mentioned, you can reset the card registry (once, at least), and here's another way around it: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...dpost&p=1856703 I'd like to say how well Lee's method works. Thanks Lee. I have the western US broken up into 200 mb or so chunks on my hard drive and when I head a certain direction, I will just copy those maps to any old card and stick it in my Expedition. Someone over on the Yahoo lowrance group just confirmed that a 2 gb card works, so we can get even more maps loaded. seneca: You've never answered. Have you tried this on anything but your HP tablet?

This sounds like a bad card or a bad card reader in the GPS. As I understand it, you made the map, transfered it to the card, stuck the card in the GPS, and now the GPS won't go past the boot screen? If that's the case, I'd say it's definitely card related. Check that you've properly seated the card in its holder in the battery compartment. I had behaviour similar to what you described when the card was crooked in its holder. Also test the card in a regular card reader to see if it transfers files at normal speed. Finally, try another card. I have a PNY and a Sandisk, both 1 gb, that work great.

Maybe instead of blaming Lowrance, you could try this on a real computer instead of the tablet. Several of us have given you data that it doesn't take that long, in fact should be around 1 hour. I just made 2 gb of maps today (the 11 western states) in 90 minutes. And my computer is 4 years old. You have other issues. http://www.lowrance.com/software/default.asp Here you can find the updates, this may solve your problem. Lowrance released the upgrades because of slow map transfers. thank you so much for all of your support! which is more than i can say about lowrance! i am not having much luck with my second attempt! 72 hours and still transferring! after this last attempt i will update the reader! and i will never ever get another lowrance gps!

That one hour is mainly data crunching time. Approx 12 min for 200 mb on my antique machine. I would use Lee Rimar's method for decoupling the maps with a specific card. Search for that thread in which he describes the method. Then you can use a usb2 card reader to transfer the data. Hey synergicity, I'm sure I read somewhere that you only need to initially "encode" your SD card w/ the LEI cardreader, but after that you can use whatever device to transfer the data. The reason I mention it is ~ 1hour for a 1Gb transfer to an SD card seems loooong. Am I mistaken about using other readers? Or is the ~1hour due to the software "crunching" the data and actually "making" the maps to upload? Gettting closer to swiping the card...wife actually warmed up to the idea ...still gotta decide on AirMap600C or Exped. C though Later, Z

But for autorouting with the 76csx, won't you want to buy extra mapping software to get the detailed road and POI info? So add $100 to that price to get autorouting. I think it will autoroute with the basemap, but the basemap is like all basemaps, not that detailed.

Something's wrong. I created and downloaded (to a cheapo PNY 1 gb card) 3 maps that total around 800 mb and it took less than an hour. This is using the LEI cardreader, MapCreate 6.3, and a PC i built in 2002 with a 1.7 ghz athlon proc and 1 gb of RAM. Can you do this on a regular PC instead of the tablet. Maybe it is so underpowered, or under memoried, that you are barking up the wrong tree. where can i find the firmware update? under what section of lowrance site? i was not able to transfer the 977mb on my card, after almost 72hrs of attempt. so, yesterday at 3;30pm est, i am trying again at 917mb, their estimation is way off! was i ever dissapointed. hopefully this reduction of transfer finish by tomorrow. tue, wed, thurs. i'm using a cheap kingston 1gb. using a hp tablet pc. i just ordered a 2gb kingston card i plan on transferring the whole north american map onto my iway 100m and also try it on my ifinder m&m(map & music). i've yet to turn either on.

In an ammo box, on a rack filled with other ammo boxes at a local military surplus store (placed with the blessing of the shopowner). Not mine, but I loved it.

Lowrance iFINDER H2O GPS (112-15) $135.99 right now at www.chumbo.com (a four star rated retailer) Maybe a drop in price is warranted? I'll give you $100 if you pay shipping.

I have an offer to make. If 5 of you send me $50, I will open my Expedition up and take pictures of the chipset and post it on flickr. It will satisfy everyone's curiosity and provide me a level of insurance in case I break the thing. Paypal will be fine.

Definitely, what CO-Zman said. Here's a link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mapcreate_format/

My wife trains with a Forerunner 201 and she loves the freedom it allows her. She has to run some big miles preparing for a marathon, and with the gps on her wrist she doesn't always have to preplan every run. Just take off and run til you're done. That said, it has terrible reception in the trees. Both she and I have used it in tree cover (redwoods). She runs and I mtn bike and both of us have been frustrated at it's poor ability to maintain lock under tree cover. But it is a small unit, and if you aren't running often in heavy cover, it'll probably be fine. I haven't used it for geocaching and so can't address that.

The H2O C and the Expedition C are both great units. Get them with the plus pack if you can, both should be within your budget. You can download maps (from the MapCreate software) and waypoints (in a variety of ways, but I like using GPX files from gc.com and GSAK). I also use GPSBabel and Google Earth a lot with my Expedition. I like to download my tracks and save them as Google Earth paths with distance and names and such. Folks say that the 16 channels isn't a big deal but for the first time the other day I used 13! 12 regular birds and a WAAS satellite. Good reception that day. I counted the bars 4 times because I didn't believe it. The reception in heavy tree cover is outstanding. I am having problems placing caches in the redwood forests here because despite the fact that I have 6-8 satellites and WAAS lock, others are not able to get decent reception and have difficulty zeroing in on the cache. I have to be more careful and take along a less able GPS on future hides. I've called support twice with questions and both times they were awesome. Real people answer the phone and they are located at the factory in OK. And they know what they are talking about. The email support isn't as good, you wait a few days before getting a response.

Neither of these will hold a lock on satellites in tree cover, so if that is important to you, don't buy them. My wife uses a 201 to track her running training and it works great in the open, but she just did a marathon with much tree cover (Avenue of the Giants Marathon) and there was very little record of her race due to no lock under the trees. For time of waypoint, get a GPSR that will allow a trackpoint over a time interval. Some allow you to specify distance or time based trackpoint setting. For example I set a trackpoint every second. So if I know the start time, I know the time of each trackpoint. The 201 is not that fast at acquiring satellites, and it won't acquire them if in the trees.

Here's the Expedition with the plus pack (includes MapCreate, card reader and 64 mb SD card). I ordered from here and was satisfied with their service. http://lakepowellmarineelectronics.com/loifexcplgps.html