+duganrm Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Regarding Friday...how about if we meet at this Park and Ride at Hwy 8 and Lake Jennings road at 8AM! That way some can leave cars and ride with the 4x4's. ok, I could probably use a ride unless Rogue comes with me. It looks like my brakes are slowly failing on my car.... just found out it was down to 1/4 fluid.... Going to have to do work on it this weekend. Sounds good! BTW, that's probably a good spot to meet for the early birds on Thanksgiving morning! Is this it (with the arrow)? looks like it. I would have to umm make a quick stop at what may be a Burger King on the other side of the freeway? maybe even visit the North Pole while I'm in the area.. Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 looks like it. I would have to umm make a quick stop at what may be a Burger King on the other side of the freeway? maybe even visit the North Pole while I'm in the area.. I'm sure a lot of us --- uh, those with a three digit cache count --- were thinking the same thing! Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Regarding Friday...how about if we meet at this Park and Ride at Hwy 8 and Lake Jennings road at 8AM! That way some can leave cars and ride with the 4x4's. ok, I could probably use a ride unless Rogue comes with me. It looks like my brakes are slowly failing on my car.... just found out it was down to 1/4 fluid.... Going to have to do work on it this weekend. Sounds good! BTW, that's probably a good spot to meet for the early birds on Thanksgiving morning! Is this it (with the arrow)? looks like it. I would have to umm make a quick stop at what may be a Burger King on the other side of the freeway? maybe even visit the North Pole while I'm in the area.. Yes that's where it is! Edited November 22, 2005 by TrailGators Quote Link to comment
+HelBob Duo Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Man, it must be nice to have a 4-day weekend after Turkeyday! Hope ya'all have fun & bag a few for us poor working slobs. Quote Link to comment
+Green Dolphin Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Man, it must be nice to have a 4-day weekend after Turkeyday! Hope ya'all have fun & bag a few for us poor working slobs. No kiddin'...I am working all weekend and away from home. Oh well. Does anybody want to replace the Buckman Springs (GC78F0) cache while you are out in the area? My kids always check on that one while I am dumping the tanks. They have "found" it at least 4 times. I don't mind adopting the cache for this reason. I was just thinking since so many folks will be in the area.... The owners look like they haven't been active in a looooonnnnngg time. Quote Link to comment
+smilinglady13 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 7AM Hawaii time?! Later than that...please! 8?? 9?? Let's get a concensus but I could do 8AM-8:15AM at the meeting spot. How about you other guys? 8am is great with me for Friday. I can take some in my 4x4...love my jeep!!!! Quote Link to comment
+smilinglady13 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I'm still trying to figure out Thursday. we meeting in town somewhere? We could meet at the same place as we are for Friday per TrailGators suggestion. Would probably need to be there at 0630 (am) to get to the meeting spot by 0700 (am) How does that sound to everyone? Quote Link to comment
+smilinglady13 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 You say the time and I will come and finish the ones I dont get done on Turkey day. We're going to try to make it Thursday - is there a sequence planned in case anyone is running late? And are these caches kid friendly (sounds like they would definitely be educational)? Would anyone like to plan a return trip on Friday or Saturday to do Bear Valley and any straggler SCCC's? I was thinkin' ( and that is where I might have gone wrong!! ) that we could start with number 3 as it requires the ladder and the ladder will be there early, then move to #9, then 1, 6 sort of following the flow. I have done the part of Bear Valley that goes from Pine Valley exit but need to do the other side of the locked gate so would be happy to do that Thurs or Fri. I was supposed to be out of town but that fell through at the last minute so I am going to do geocaching and hopefully some 4 wheel driving while I geo cache so any of you wanting a group on Fri or Sat just post the day and time and I will be there with my trusty Jeep and GPS. Here is a map of the area with some of the caches: I think SCC #3, then La Fantasma, then #9, then SCC #6, then Bob's Cache, then SCC #8, then SCC #4 would be one way to proceed. SCC #1 is a hike. It is beautiful, but the others are closer to the road. Another option would be to do the ones right close to SCC #3 then drive all the way to SCC #12 and do caches on the way back out to the Interstate on the way back home to turkey dinner . . . Final plan for Turkey day for those coming along. I think Miragee Idea of starting with 3 (while we have a ladder) and then going out to 12 and working our way back to turkey dinner is just grand. Thank you everyone for contributing to the make up of this whole affair!!!! Now to get to work.......people in great abundance wanting some of those stents that were shown on one of these threads. Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 So Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride Is that the current plan? Quote Link to comment
+smilinglady13 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 So Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride Is that the current plan? current plan looks like to me. Quote Link to comment
+blonds run amuck Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 So Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride Is that the current plan? current plan looks like to me. The park and ride or the 7-11? I might have missed somehting.... Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 So Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride Is that the current plan? current plan looks like to me. The park and ride or the 7-11? I might have missed somehting.... The Park and Ride so some can leave their cars there! Quote Link to comment
+blonds run amuck Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 So Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride Is that the current plan? current plan looks like to me. The park and ride or the 7-11? I might have missed somehting.... The Park and Ride so some can leave their cars there! got it....this thread moves fast!! Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 got it....this thread moves fast!! It does! In one week, it'll probably have more posts than the New Jersey Thread has in 6 months! RECAP: Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride (I'll add a special icon to make this stand out) Quote Link to comment
+smilinglady13 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 got it....this thread moves fast!! It does! In one week, it'll probably have more posts than the New Jersey Thread has in 6 months! RECAP: Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride (I'll add a special icon to make this stand out) good job!!!!! WOW the organization is wearing me out!!! hope I have enough energy to find the park and ride and then the caches....... Quote Link to comment
+Chuy! Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I didn't read anything about communciations. I'll be on FRS 3, if busy keep going up till a channel is clear. Nextel has little if any reception down yonder; other flavors will vary. Current forecast calls for 20% chance of showers/thunderstorms. As long as it' not pouring, I'm going. Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 I'll be on FRS 3, if busy keep going up till a channel is clear. This is probably a topic for another thread - I have a set of Midland GXT-250's - how do I know if I'm on a FRS or GMRS channel? Quote Link to comment
+Chuy! Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I'll be on FRS 3, if busy keep going up till a channel is clear. This is probably a topic for another thread - I have a set of Midland GXT-250's - how do I know if I'm on a FRS or GMRS channel? The Midland GXT-250 two way radio supports all 22 FRS and GMRS channels ... This link is for the user's manual. Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 This link is for the user's manual. Thanks, Chuy - I found the manual myself, but it wasn't clear which channels were FRS/GMRS (says 7 FRS, 8 GMRS and 7 shared - can't quite imagine how that works ) but if all I have to do is set it to ch. 3 then I don't care! Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) This link is for the user's manual. Thanks, Chuy - I found the manual myself, but it wasn't clear which channels were FRS/GMRS (says 7 FRS, 8 GMRS and 7 shared - can't quite imagine how that works ) but if all I have to do is set it to ch. 3 then I don't care! As long as we are on the subject.... (figured I'd thread this to the other thread) Edited November 22, 2005 by TrailGators Quote Link to comment
+Miragee Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Are some of you still meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, to do the MTRP caches? Quote Link to comment
+duganrm Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Are some of you still meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, to do the MTRP caches? I don't think there is anyone going back tomorrow? Wish I could keep ditching work but I called in sick today and went off to MTRP with Tex of Tex&Capie. We took care of everything but Oak Canyon that was on his list.I also had to pick up some not on the list. Quote Link to comment
+Tex&Capie Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Are some of you still meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, to do the MTRP caches? Okay, you have twisted my arm. I guess I can go back to MTRP for some more caches. How about some caches on the north side of the 52? Here is the list I am thinking about11/23/05 MTRP List If anyone would like to go, email me. We could meet at N 32° 50.823 W 117° 01.797 at Equestrian Center. Duganrm and I started at 9:30 AM today and finished just as the sun was starting to set. Could do the same tomorrow. Quote Link to comment
+Chuy! Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) This link is for the user's manual. Thanks, Chuy - I found the manual myself, but it wasn't clear which channels were FRS/GMRS (says 7 FRS, 8 GMRS and 7 shared - can't quite imagine how that works ) but if all I have to do is set it to ch. 3 then I don't care! I looked up your channel frequencies (pg 21 in your manual) and compared them to my FRS only channels. Channels 1-14 match up ; your remaining 8 channels must be GMRS. This article explains FRS and GMRS channels. Bad news about using GMRS, "Use of a dual-service radio’s GMRS bands requires an FCC operator’s license. Dual-service radios may be used without an operator’s license, if only the FRS channels are used." Edited November 23, 2005 by Chuy Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 I looked up your channel frequencies (pg 21 in your manual) and compared them to my FRS only channels. Channels 1-14 match up ; your remaining 8 channels must be GMRS.(snip) Bad news about using GMRS, "Use of a dual-service radio’s GMRS bands requires an FCC operator’s license. Dual-service radios may be used without an operator’s license, if only the FRS channels are used." Thanks, Chuy, I guess that means I can simply change channels to become an outlaw!! Quote Link to comment
+Miragee Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Are some of you still meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, to do the MTRP caches? Sorry . . . I got mixed up and thought you were meeting tomorrow . . . not today. This thread is moving too fast . . . . How did we organize things before. Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 I looked up your channel frequencies (pg 21 in your manual) and compared them to my FRS only channels. Channels 1-14 match up ; your remaining 8 channels must be GMRS.(snip) Bad news about using GMRS, "Use of a dual-service radio’s GMRS bands requires an FCC operator’s license. Dual-service radios may be used without an operator’s license, if only the FRS channels are used." Thanks, Chuy, I guess that means I can simply change channels to become an outlaw!! What's it take to get a license these days? Do you still have to transmit Morse code at 25 words/minute? Quote Link to comment
+kawikaturn Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 What's it take to get a license these days? Do you still have to transmit Morse code at 25 words/minute? a 35 question, multi - guess test - No Morse code req'd for tec license. I am planning on taking the test 12/10! Here is a good informative link . See the arrl link for more info or to take a sample test online. Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) What's it take to get a license these days? Do you still have to transmit Morse code at 25 words/minute? a 35 question, multi - guess test - No Morse code req'd for tec license. I am planning on taking the test 12/10! Here is a good informative link . See the arrl link for more info or to take a sample test online. Thanks Dave! It looks like a very tough test! Question 1: What is the name for the flow of electrons in an electric circuit? A Resistance B Voltage C Current D Capacitance So obviously they want everyone to pass so they get more money....so how much is it for the license? Edited November 23, 2005 by TrailGators Quote Link to comment
+HelBob Duo Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 So is anyone doing anything on Wednesday? Or are ya all in bed by now? Quote Link to comment
+duganrm Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 So is anyone doing anything on Wednesday? Or are ya all in bed by now? people go to bed this eary? There are a couple people above discussing going to MTRP tomorrow. Quote Link to comment
+Toby's Gang Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 So is anyone doing anything on Wednesday? Or are ya all in bed by now? people go to bed this eary? There are a couple people above discussing going to MTRP tomorrow. I'm still up and wishing I could go on the SCC caching trip, but we're heading to Las Vegas for Thanksgiving and a Paul McCartney concert. While there we also plan on leaving some cash and finding some cache. Quote Link to comment
+HelBob Duo Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 So is anyone doing anything on Wednesday? Or are ya all in bed by now? people go to bed this eary? There are a couple people above discussing going to MTRP tomorrow. I think that was a mistake. They actually went today. Anyway, I think I'm going to go join my hubby & the geokitties. BTW, ya ever go to the NJ thread that TT started? Boy, they get serious sometimes! Can't we all just get along??? Quote Link to comment
+duganrm Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 So is anyone doing anything on Wednesday? Or are ya all in bed by now? people go to bed this eary? There are a couple people above discussing going to MTRP tomorrow. I think that was a mistake. They actually went today. Anyway, I think I'm going to go join my hubby & the geokitties. BTW, ya ever go to the NJ thread that TT started? Boy, they get serious sometimes! Can't we all just get along??? not a mistake. Tex wants to go back tomorrow. I went out with him today but I can't be gone from work 2 days in a row at the moment. I at least have to go in and see if there is work I need to get done tomorrow. I tend not to read the other forums, I can barely keep up with this one. I also don't need to read anything serious. This is supposed to be fun! Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 RECAP: Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride Brrr! Quote Link to comment
+duganrm Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 RECAP: Thursday: 6:30 AM at the park & ride off of I-8 and Lake Jennings (or 7 AM at SCCC #3) Friday: 8:00 AM at the same park & ride Brrr! trying to convince me to sleep in tomorrow? Trying to get out of the house by 5:30 is going to be hard already.... Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 trying to convince me to sleep in tomorrow? Trying to get out of the house by 5:30 is going to be hard already.... Hehe, no, just reminding anyone who didn't know (like me) to dress warm! Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) For sure that cluster is along the Bear Valley loop. Be careful about one road gate of the Bear Valley loop. If that gate is locked then all but four of the caches can be reached by starting from the Pine Valley trailhead and the other four can be scored from the Buckman Springs Road trailhead. All but one of the hides are very near the roadbed, the other a moderate uphill hike without bushwhacking. The gate in question is at the top of the hill when coming in from Buckman Springs Road. Unfortunately that's the best starting point for low-clearance vehicles due to one rocky section of the road about halfway toward Pine Valley. However, I've driven it from the Pine Valley end in a 2WD Ford Explorer and got through by powering up and over the rocky spot in a hurry. Yeah, I know, I'm a cowboy and so I should have and did. If you're lucky the topside road gate will be open but who knows when or why? Hi Harmon, I made a topo map of the Bear Valley area. I highlighted the path that I figured we could follow. I figured we'd start with the southern cluster off Buckman Springs road and then head north to Pine Valley hitting all the others on the way. Where are these gates that you are referring to? Near TSNTZW? * There are 25 caches that we can hit! Edited November 24, 2005 by TrailGators Quote Link to comment
+smilinglady13 Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 For sure that cluster is along the Bear Valley loop. Be careful about one road gate of the Bear Valley loop. If that gate is locked then all but four of the caches can be reached by starting from the Pine Valley trailhead and the other four can be scored from the Buckman Springs Road trailhead. All but one of the hides are very near the roadbed, the other a moderate uphill hike without bushwhacking. The gate in question is at the top of the hill when coming in from Buckman Springs Road. Unfortunately that's the best starting point for low-clearance vehicles due to one rocky section of the road about halfway toward Pine Valley. However, I've driven it from the Pine Valley end in a 2WD Ford Explorer and got through by powering up and over the rocky spot in a hurry. Yeah, I know, I'm a cowboy and so I should have and did. If you're lucky the topside road gate will be open but who knows when or why? Hi Harmon, I made a topo map of the Bear Valley area. I highlighted the path that I figured we could follow. I figured we'd start with the southern cluster off Buckman Springs road and then head north to Pine Valley hitting all the others on the way. Where are these gates that you are referring to? Near TSNTZW? * There are 25 caches that we can hit! I was up there last week and the gate was still locked. We were told it was because of the Border Patrol.......who knows how true that is Quote Link to comment
+SD Rowdies Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) For sure that cluster is along the Bear Valley loop. Be careful about one road gate of the Bear Valley loop. If that gate is locked then all but four of the caches can be reached by starting from the Pine Valley trailhead and the other four can be scored from the Buckman Springs Road trailhead. All but one of the hides are very near the roadbed, the other a moderate uphill hike without bushwhacking. The gate in question is at the top of the hill when coming in from Buckman Springs Road. Unfortunately that's the best starting point for low-clearance vehicles due to one rocky section of the road about halfway toward Pine Valley. However, I've driven it from the Pine Valley end in a 2WD Ford Explorer and got through by powering up and over the rocky spot in a hurry. Yeah, I know, I'm a cowboy and so I should have and did. If you're lucky the topside road gate will be open but who knows when or why? Hi Harmon, I made a topo map of the Bear Valley area. I highlighted the path that I figured we could follow. I figured we'd start with the southern cluster off Buckman Springs road and then head north to Pine Valley hitting all the others on the way. Where are these gates that you are referring to? Near TSNTZW? * There are 25 caches that we can hit! Pat, The two gates in question are right at caches TMNTZF and TRNTZ8. TRNTZF is located exactly where you exit Buckman Springs Road to start the Bear Valley Loop. This gate is at roadside and is not often closed in my experience. TRNYZ8 is at the top of the first climb. If it is locked then you will not be able to drive on toward Pine Valley along Bear Valley Road. I'm not familiar enough with this gate to guess what the schedule is for being opened or closed. It sure surprised me to find a new gate at this spot and luckily I entered the loop at Pine Valley so I scored all but the final four. There are four caches that you can definitely score between these two road gates starting from the Buckman end. There's a couple of log entries after mine that don't make mention of a locked gate and one that does. Not sure what that means for your prospects. By the way, I think that small secondary loop at the bottom of your map is only a bike trail. Looking forward to your report. Have fun and a happy holiday. Harmon Edited November 24, 2005 by SD Rowdies Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 TRNYZ8 is at the top of the first climb. If it is locked then you will not be able to drive on toward Pine Valley along Bear Valley Road. I'm not familiar enough with this gate to guess what the schedule is for being opened or closed. It sure surprised me to find a new gate at this spot and luckily I entered the loop at Pine Valley so I scored all but the final four. There are four caches that you can definitely score between these two road gates starting from the Buckman end. There's a couple of log entries after mine that don't make mention of a locked gate and one that does. Not sure what that means for your prospects. By the way, I think that small secondary loop at the bottom of your map is only a bike trail. Looking forward to your report. Have fun and a happy holiday. Harmon Harmon I was told that you could drive on part of that SW loop because Dream State is located off that loop but can't say where....I have the coords for anybody that has a key to that darn gate! Have a happy Thanksgiving yourself! I can't wait for the stuffing and the Pumpkin Pie myself! Quote Link to comment
+RocketMan Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I have the coords for anybody that has a key to that darn gate! You could use the master key. Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) Oh, never mind - google turned that up out of context - here's the current status: The Cleveland National Forest is currently in High fire danger. No mention of closed gates there. They do close the Bear Valley gates when the Fire Danger Level is Extreme Edited November 24, 2005 by ahimsa Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) I have the coords for anybody that has a key to that darn gate! You could use the master key. But we better not! They might start pulling caches if we did that... Edited November 24, 2005 by TrailGators Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 Lookie here: Bear Valley Road (16S12) Open Descanso San Diego Cty There is a locked gate approximately 1 mile northwest of Buckan Springs Road. Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Lookie here: Bear Valley Road (16S12) Open Descanso San Diego Cty There is a locked gate approximately 1 mile northwest of Buckan Springs Road. Awesome!!!! Good job finding that Ahimsa!! Quote Link to comment
+Chuy! Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I called the Campo Border Patrol Station; they staff the two checkpoints nearby. I was told they don't lock gates. They have keys to open them, but it's either BLM or Forest Service that locks the gates for various reasons. A ph# for Forest Service I was given is 619-557-5262. When I went there, earlier in the year, the gate was closed with a latch. I don't recall if a lock was hanging there or not, but did anyone actually go up to the gate and try and lift the hatch 'cause the lock hanging on the chain might give the appearance it's locked. Quote Link to comment
+PassingWind Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Thursday: 7 AM at SCCC #3 So you there.... Quote Link to comment
+TFTC Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 I don't understand that pie shaped part of the route on the left - it look like you can just cut over to the 8 from GCNXRQ -> GCNXQM -> GCNTZB (assuming you can start from the southern end - maybe not a good assumption). I was going to bring the family along Friday so I don't want to do anything extreme! I wonder if I can get the ones south of the gate tomorrow, if possible, so I don't have to double back for those Friday, but that's probably a bit too optimistic considering how little time I'll have. Quote Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I called the Campo Border Patrol Station; they staff the two checkpoints nearby.I was told they don't lock gates. They have keys to open them, but it's either BLM or Forest Service that locks the gates for various reasons. A ph# for Forest Service I was given is 619-557-5262. When I went there, earlier in the year, the gate was closed with a latch. I don't recall if a lock was hanging there or not, but did anyone actually go up to the gate and try and lift the hatch 'cause the lock hanging on the chain might give the appearance it's locked. Thanks Chuy! I'll definitely try to open the gate when we get there! By the way, Harmon mentioned that SW loop is only for mountain bikes. I was under the impression that is was driveable and so was that north offshoot that goes towards Dream State until it gets about 0.25 miles from Dream State. Quote Link to comment
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