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Bizarre Hypocrisy


FishPOET
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:laughing: You know its got to be a shame that some cachers have somthing like this to go to and can only gripe. :laughing::rolleyes:

I would love to have a group to put somthing on in our area but that is not going to happen down here in this part of the woods. We are not big enough to have these companies place any type of event cache, clinic, seminar, comercial or otherwise.

Do me a great favor if you would, send all of these things you want down to our area! This will solve your problems and I for one would love to see new things and try to get as much out of them as I can and will not gripe about a comercial for one minute.

For those that have any say where these events, clinics, seminars, comercial caches, shows, free handouts, event caches, are placed

Please,

Come to Lubbock, Texas. We would welcome them here.

Shadow's

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It's Official

 

 

deadhorse.gif

Since it is the weekend and Rothstafari has given an explanation I am going to close this topic for now. If he wants to open it back up when he gets an assesment of the situation he can do that next week when he goes back to work. For now, since all people can do is speculate, I am going to close this topic. Some should probably be embarrased by some of the things they have said in this topic in fact. It should teach all not to jump to conclusions until you have *all* the facts.

 

Go geocaching people. How about we let Rothstafari and his lovely wife spend a nice anniversary weekend together without having to read this topic.

 

Congrats to you both, by the way. May you enjoy many more years together.

Give Kalimon a milkbone for me from the puppymonster (I'll do the same in return).

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I approved this cache.

 

It was my understanding that it was to be a clinic for geocaching and that they would be giving away some Magellan door prizes. I was unaware that it would be used as a blatent 1 hour advertisement for Magellan. I will be having a following conversation with the REI rep to find out what really happened. If in fact it was the advertisement that people compain about, future requests will be treated with much greater scrutiny. If, however, they just used the units to illustrate geocaching, then I am not sure that harm has been done.

Ok, here is the promised update.

 

I spoke with the Rep from REI that I worked with on this event. Apparently, he received a lot of complaints from both customers and REI employees regarding the nature of this presentation.

 

Both he and I were under the impression that the clinic would be provided to introduce people to geocaching and that Magellan would be providing some door prizes. Although not typically something that we'd approve, we gave them special permission for this one provided that they did not use the cache page to advertise for Magellan.

 

Apparently, there were some signals crossed and the event included more than an acceptable level of Magellan gps use. As others have mentioned above, this 'event' crossed the line into infomercial land.

 

Clearly, this is not acceptable and, had I known, it would never have been approved. So, to those who attended, please accept my personal apology. It was not my intent to subject you to an informercial.

 

Going forward, as indicated in my previous post, these type of requests will be treated with much greater scrutiny and, if the event would be approved, there will be much more clarity on the web page as far as the commercial nature is concerned.

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Thank you Bryan.

 

I was at this event and, just to be fair, I thought I should tell you that when he began his presentation the Magellan rep did announce that he had "burried" a cache with $5 somewhere outside of the REI store. After demonstrating the new Magellan units he took us outside to look for the geocache. We did get a chance to use the new units and see how they perform. Anyway, it was obvious that the cache was hidden in some bushes at the far end of the parking lot. The experienced cachers among us went into the area behind the bush where we would have hidden a cache. And sure enough one of us found a cache there. - the second part of a multi hidden by a cacher that works in that REI store. I think my log says more about geocaching than anything said at the clinic.

Edited by tozainamboku
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Thank you for the update.

 

This may sound slightly off topic but some of you might be able to piece it all together:

 

I've noticed in the last 6 months or so that Magellan has been marketing their eXplorist series very aggressively. I know at least one person in my area who got to try it for free in exchange for valuable feedback. ALL the local Fry's Electronics stores in my area suddenly dumped the Garmin products and had the eXplorist taking up the shelf space. I've seen a few eXplorists end up as door prizes on event caches. Personally, I've been impressed with how the units perform.

 

Aggressive, but good marketing so far.

 

For this "event" cache in question, they might have crossed the line. It's unfortunate that Groundspeak staff is taking the heat for it. I use both Garmin and Magellan products and try not to make a religious issue to see which maker is better. Incident like this can give bad taste in people's mouth and force people to "take sides" unnecessarily.

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There is always a "first for everything" and this cache was one to learn from. Its unfortunate that the Magellan rep turned the event into an infomercial and in the future I am confident that Groundspeak will create appropraite guidlines that these events have to meet to be listed.

 

One thing I could think of is that a geocacher and not someone from the store or a manufacturer would have to teach the Geocaching portion of the seminar. Someone who has no link to either grouop that way there is no product bias. Store employees or manufacturer's reps could be on hand to answer product questions when the seminar has concluded.

Edited by magellan315
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It is unfortunate that this occured and I am sure that TPTB are sincere about watching out for this sort of thing in the future.

 

We will most likely see more direct targeting from retailers and manufacturers as the game gains popularity and exposure. Cachers are a pretty solid consumer demographic. We have substantial buying power and deserve the attention of the corporations whose products we purchase. Caches however, are sacred ground and I trust that this is not what Jeremy invisions for GC.Com.

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correct me if I am wrong...but if people were so unhappy with the presentation, didn't they have the right to leave?  I think that would have made a statement.

This post will answer your question. It's just a little later in the text. Buy Magellan. Because I keep adding in a bit more information that you're reading this post for, namely the answer to your somewhat-rhetorical question that I quoted, you're apt to keep reading. Buy Magellan. In the end, you'll have probably read a good amount of this and I'll have annoyingly told you to "Buy Magellan" at least once...maybe twice...maybe even more times before you finally give up and stop reading. Buy Magellan. That's one big reason why people will sit through something like a sales presentation that originally promised great geocaching tips that they spent the time and effort to attend in the first place...even if it's making them unhappy.

 

EDIT: As it is, an EMS rep demonstrated a GPSr at the geocaching tournament this past weekend in central MA and the presentation was really well received by those that attended it as far as I know (one person on my team went to it). It's not beyond store reps to present factual info (even if they specifically demo a certain model/brand) in a manner that doesn't bludgeon you with buying their product.

 

From the *company* sales reps I've met...I think it IS beyond them. There's something wired wrong in some of those reps, I think.

Edited by ju66l3r
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correct me if I am wrong...but if people were so unhappy with the presentation, didn't they have the right to leave?  I think that would have made a statement.

This post will answer your question. It's just a little later in the text. Buy Magellan. Because I keep adding in a bit more information that you're reading this post for, namely the answer to your somewhat-rhetorical question that I quoted, you're apt to keep reading. Buy Magellan. In the end, you'll have probably read a good amount of this and I'll have annoyinging told you to "Buy Magellan" at least once...maybe twice...maybe even more times before you finally give up and stop reading. Buy Magellan. That's one big reason why people will sit through something like a sales presentation that originally promised great geocaching tips that they spent the time and effort to attend in the first place...even if it's making them unhappy.

Beyond that, many people just can't bring themselves to be rude in that situation, even if it is warranted.

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correct me if I am wrong...but if people were so unhappy with the presentation, didn't they have the right to leave?  I think that would have made a statement.

This post will answer your question. It's just a little later in the text. Buy Magellan. Because I keep adding in a bit more information that you're reading this post for, namely the answer to your somewhat-rhetorical question that I quoted, you're apt to keep reading. Buy Magellan. In the end, you'll have probably read a good amount of this and I'll have annoyinging told you to "Buy Magellan" at least once...maybe twice...maybe even more times before you finally give up and stop reading. Buy Magellan. That's one big reason why people will sit through something like a sales presentation that originally promised great geocaching tips that they spent the time and effort to attend in the first place...even if it's making them unhappy.

Beyond that, many people just can't bring themselves to be rude in that situation, even if it is warranted.

BUT...they can bring that rudeness to the forums....

 

talk about hypocrisy....

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correct me if I am wrong...but if people were so unhappy with the presentation, didn't they have the right to leave?  I think that would have made a statement.

Amen! If I was at that sort of event cache I would have looked over at another Garmin user and said, "Hey! This isn't what I came for...wanna go grab a beer?"

 

People can get all worked up about a mistake, or they can take it in stride and continue on with life. Guess which group is comprised of happier people? :laughing:

 

Margo

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correct me if I am wrong...but if people were so unhappy with the presentation, didn't they have the right to leave?  I think that would have made a statement.

This post will answer your question. It's just a little later in the text. Buy Magellan. Because I keep adding in a bit more information that you're reading this post for, namely the answer to your somewhat-rhetorical question that I quoted, you're apt to keep reading. Buy Magellan. In the end, you'll have probably read a good amount of this and I'll have annoyinging told you to "Buy Magellan" at least once...maybe twice...maybe even more times before you finally give up and stop reading. Buy Magellan. That's one big reason why people will sit through something like a sales presentation that originally promised great geocaching tips that they spent the time and effort to attend in the first place...even if it's making them unhappy.

Beyond that, many people just can't bring themselves to be rude in that situation, even if it is warranted.

BUT...they can bring that rudeness to the forums....

 

talk about hypocrisy....

You are assuming the attendees were the same people who have been less than civil in the forums.

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Beyond that, many people just can't bring themselves to be rude in that situation, even if it is warranted.

BUT...they can bring that rudeness to the forums....

 

talk about hypocrisy....

You are assuming the attendees were the same people who have been less than civil in the forums.

true, dat.

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correct me if I am wrong...but if people were so unhappy with the presentation, didn't they have the right to leave?  I think that would have made a statement.

from the cache page: This is a Free Clinic that will cover the basics of Geo-Gaching and GPS Units. Time 7PM-8PM, August 18. Details on GPS Hunt Game where you can win GPS Related Products, will also be discussed this evening.

 

One of my friends from the NFS lives in the area and he has an interest in geocaching. He showed up at the event. It should have been a wonderful introduction to the game and/or how gps units work. It wasn't. He did leave. What do you think his opinion of geocaching is now?

 

I do appreciate the comments by Bryan and I really hope this doesn't happen again.

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correct me if I am wrong...but if people were so unhappy with the presentation, didn't they have the right to leave?  I think that would have made a statement.

 

One of my friends from the NFS lives in the area and he has an interest in geocaching. He showed up at the event. It should have been a wonderful introduction to the game and/or how gps units work. It wasn't. He did leave. What do you think his opinion of geocaching is now?

 

good point...hadn't looked at it from that perspective.

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Well, goll-y...

 

1) So, an event cache got approved when it should not have been according to the site's guidelines. When I aspire to perfection in all that I do, and my farts smell like roses, then perhaps I will then judge the volunteers who let this event cache pass. Until then, I shall merely shrug at such mistakes, and continue caching.

 

2) "ditched as soon as scott introduced hiself..."

I like the attitude of this one who attended, and if I had stumbled into this event, probably would have done the same thing. I'm presuming "scott" is the Magellan representative. Here, this hapless cacher had two choices given the event was actually an hour long advertisment.

 

First, said cacher could recognize the event for what it was, and exercised his geocacher freedom and departed. :lol: Is this not what geocaching is about? If you do not like a cache, DO NOT DO IT!

 

Second, said cacher could recognize the event for what it was, and stayed through the "torture" of a sales pitch. After wasting an hour listening to Magellan plugs (said cacher being a dedicated Garmin fanatic), then proceed to blame geocaching.com for ever placing him in such a precarious situation. :laughing:

 

This appears to me to be much angst about nada. Then again, I did not attend the ordeal, so who am I to have an opinion with which to inflict upon others in the forums? :P

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Well, goll-y...

 

1) So, an event cache got approved when it should not have been according to the site's guidelines. When I aspire to perfection in all that I do, and my farts smell like roses, then perhaps I will then judge the volunteers who let this event cache pass. Until then, I shall merely shrug at such mistakes, and continue caching.

Just pointing out that the California volunteer reviewer properly did NOT list the cache; instead Groundspeak was consulted to see if the event could be listed as an exception to the guidelines. The exception was approved by Groundspeak, BUT under the circumstances explained above by Rothstafari of Groundspeak. Once the reviewer got the go-ahead from Rothstafari, the event cache was published.

 

Other than clarifying that one point, I do thank you for the spirit of your post!

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Going forward...there will be much more clarity on the web page as far as the commercial nature is concerned.

Thank you for that clarification, and for reopening the thread so that we were able to track the response! Truly appreciate the straightfoward approach you've taken - if we know the nature of the event, then we can and should make our own choice about whether to attend!

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People can get all worked up about a mistake, or they can take it in stride and continue on with life.  Guess which group is comprised of happier people?  :D

 

Margo

Amen. My glass is half full. Sounds like yours is too.

Sometimes it is half full...sometimes it is empty. Then I order another round and it is full again. :D:D

 

M.

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Did anyone do yet the "REI GPS Hunt Game " cache?

I like to know what this means in reality:

"..where you will be entered to win some great GPS related prizes. "

I ask this because it is a well know tactic in Europe but maybe not in the USA. What I mean is this:

1.

did you have to fill in some form with name, adres and all kind of questions about your person that have commercial relevance for the organisers?

2.

if so, did those forms contain small print telling you in positive words that you are signing away some rights?

3.

what are those mysterious 'related prices'? Anything of value?

4.

what happens where on the 26th as the logs indicate?

 

Further: I will come back to this after the closing date of sept 16 . because the trick here in Europe is when you question the organisers about the winners: 'of cause there are winners but because of privacy reasons we cannot tell you who.'

So you never come to know if it was all real.

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Did anyone do yet the "REI GPS Hunt Game " cache?

I like to know what this means in reality:

"..where you will be entered to win some great GPS related prizes. "

I ask this because it is a well know tactic in Europe but maybe not in the USA. What I mean is this:

1.

did you have to fill in some form with name, adres and all kind of questions about your person that have commercial relevance for the organisers?

2.

if so, did those forms contain small print telling you in positive words that you are signing away some rights?

3.

what are those mysterious 'related prices'? Anything of value?

4.

what happens where on the 26th as the logs indicate?

 

Further: I will come back to this after the closing date of sept 16 . because the trick here in Europe is when you question the organisers about the winners: 'of cause there are winners but because of privacy reasons we cannot tell you who.'

So you never come to know if it was all real.

You should direct your questions to the Magellan people at their web site.

This web site has nothing to do with that contest.

 

This post is also off topic as well.

Feel free to write to Magellan to get answers to your questions.

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Did anyone do yet the "REI GPS Hunt Game " cache?

I like to know what this means in reality:

"..where you will be entered to win some great GPS related prizes. "

I ask this because it is a well know tactic in Europe but maybe not in the USA. What I mean is this:

1.

did you have to fill in some form with name, adres and all kind of questions about your person that have commercial relevance for the organisers?

2.

if so, did those forms contain small print telling you in positive words that you are signing away some rights?

3.

what are those mysterious 'related prices'? Anything of value?

4.

what happens where on the 26th as the logs indicate?

 

Further: I will come back to this after the closing date of sept 16 . because the trick here in Europe is when you question the organisers about the winners: 'of cause there are winners but because of privacy reasons we cannot tell you who.'

So you never come to know if it was all real.

Although some people have logged finds, I don't believe anyone has completed this cache because the second waypoint isn't available till Friday August 26th. However, I can tell you that this cache was a lot more fun than a boring lampost micro <_<

 

Went to the first waypoint yesterday. It is just outside of the Bolsa Chica wetlands nature preserve. The Bolsa Chica Conservancy has an interpretive center in a bungalow there. I was searching around the building when a lady came out and asked, "What are you doing there?" I don't think she appreciated that I was trying to crawl under her bungalow. I told I way looking for a geocache. "Oh," she said, "The flyers are in the box attached to our front door". I took a flyer. It was an annoucement of a cleanup on Sept. 17 of the wetlands that REI was helping to sponsor. Also on the flyer was a form to fill out to enter the REI and Magellan GPS Hunt. The instrutions were to return the form at the 2nd waypoint between August 26 and September 16 in order to be entered to win "one of many cool prizes". Friday, I'm going to those coordinates to return my form. I may even be at the store for the Grand Opening at 10AM so I can get FTF. :unsure:

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Thanks mtn-man for directing me to a place where I can ask my questions.

I did not think about Magellan because nowhere on the cachepage or in the logs of REI GPS Hunt Game GCQ3XE (from tosmith who also made the event-cache REI Free Geo-Cache Clinic GCQ2YT) nor in the profile of this cacheowner the word 'Magellan' is found.

The log from Amtracker on aug 17 answers a lot:

1. what happens on sept 26 is " REI—Huntington Beach Grand opening Aug 26-28! Welcome to Surf City's premier outdoor gear resource."

2. And the prizes are: "The first 200 people (age 12 and older) through the doors Friday, Saturday and Sunday will receive a special-edition water bottle and an REI gift card worth $5-$100."

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I did not think about Magellan because nowhere on the cachepage or in the logs of REI GPS Hunt Game  GCQ3XE (from tosmith who also made the event-cache REI Free Geo-Cache Clinic GCQ2YT) nor in the profile of this cacheowner the word 'Magellan' is found.

Ahhh, I see now. Email the cache owner for more information.

 

I had thought you were talking about the "Geocaching Adventure" being run directly on the Magellan GPS web site. That game is separate from the GC.com site, which caused my confusion. That contest has been going on for the last few years. (I didn't even participate this year.)

 

The best way to get the information you are looking for is to email the cache owner or post a log on the cache page.

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I was turned off from buying a Magellan the moment I noticed the outside box said "FREE SATELLITE ACCESS." I wonder how many new geocachers buy Magellans just so they can enjoy that free access?

That may not be as dumb as it sounds to us. I have been asked several times by some of the more suspicious and fiscally uptight people I know what my monthly fee is for using GPS. Maybe they associate it with OnStar or something.

 

Besides, isn't the new European system going to be fee-based?

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.....then along came earthcaches.

I'd like to address the other 400lb gorilla in this thread. <_<

 

What's wrong with Earthcaches? I went to a great deal of trouble setting up my Earthcache: Two months of research and phone calls and a nice letter of permission from New Orleans City Park.

 

(puttin' up ma dukes)

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I was turned off from buying a Magellan the moment I noticed the outside box said "FREE SATELLITE ACCESS."  I wonder how many new geocachers buy Magellans just so they can enjoy that free access?

That may not be as dumb as it sounds to us. I have been asked several times by some of the more suspicious and fiscally uptight people I know what my monthly fee is for using GPS. Maybe they associate it with OnStar or something.

 

Besides, isn't the new European system going to be fee-based?

Yes it uses the same business model als gc.com: only if you want specials you have to pay.

F.i.: NAVSTAR-USA-GPS has free civilian use for info on the F1 frequency and the military use also F2 frequency. Galileo (the European system) will have F1 for free use but the services on F2 only for a commercial fee.

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This one is veering off wildly into multiple directions.

 

The original issues have been discussed and resolved. Thanks for bringing these points up. It was very informative for the upper level administrators of the site. The issues with these caches will serve to help them make better decisions regarding these types of caches in the future.

 

Thanks! Closing this topic.

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