Fake Jeep Logs

1.2k · July 11, 2005

One of the white Jeeps that was given out at my event yesterday was placed in a cache (in NY) today, and before the next cacher who retrieved it could log taking it another cacher from Virginia grabbed it and put it back in the cache. I checked their profile and they've logged around 14 Jeeps in numerous states they've never been to by looking for pictures divulging the travel bugs number. Is this something an admin should look into? Anyone want to volunteer? It seems to me like their logs should be deleted.

July 11, 2005

It's not "against the rules" per se, but it is considered by many bad form. Can you arrest someone for farting in a crowded elevator?

Let 'em do it. You know they gotta gotta know what other folks think when they see them doing it...

6.1k · July 11, 2005

LOL, I noticed that on Maddog1488s logs. I dont know why someone would do that, unless they believe that just logging a jeep will give them a chance to win. (IT DOESNT) But then I noticed that some of the bugs you distributed were logged by people who never really "had" them either, so whats the difference?

1.2k · July 11, 2005

bugs you distributed were logged by people who never really "had" them

Unless people shared the numbers on their bugs only 1 was logged by multiple people, and that's because I read the number off of the last one to be raffled off, so that everyone who attended would get the icon. There's a big difference between that and 14 that you've never even seen.

5.3k · July 11, 2005

bugs you distributed were logged by people who never really "had" them

Unless people shared the numbers on their bugs only 1 was logged by multiple people, and that's because I read the number off of the last one to be raffled off, so that everyone who attended would get the icon. There's a big difference between that and 14 that you've never even seen.

And what is that difference?

1.2k · July 11, 2005

They saw the bug, which was passed around so everyone could get a good look at one.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Vargseld? ™

2.2k · July 11, 2005

bugs you distributed were logged by people who never really "had" them

Unless people shared the numbers on their bugs only 1 was logged by multiple people, and that's because I read the number off of the last one to be raffled off, so that everyone who attended would get the icon. There's a big difference between that and 14 that you've never even seen.

Sounds like a Zen riddle. What's the difference between 1 bug you've never seen, and 14 you've never seen? Seems to me it all adds up to zero. One fake log is about the same as 14.

1.2k · July 11, 2005

1 bug you've never seen

Ah, but they did all see it. See my post above.

1.2k · July 11, 2005

1 bug you've never seen

Ah, but they did all see it. See my post above.

Here is a thought.

You are not your brothers keeper!!!

You play your game and let everyone else play theirs. If it bothers you that much, don't play, or don't look at how other people play. Stop trying to be the Geo-police. Its not your job. If your life is ruined by the actions of others than you need to find another sport where the actions of others can't harm you. Solitaire maybe??

If someone logges all the jeep TBs and never sees a single one it doesnt affect anyone but them unless we let it bother us. Don't let it bother you. Ignore everyone else and just have fun. Unless your idea of fun is trying to make trouble for others. in that case you must be in heaven.

Edited July 11, 2005 by LaPaglia

6.1k · July 11, 2005

I believe the purpose is to actually find them in a cache. Not event caches but ones where you use your GPS and navigate difficult terrain and overcome obstacles to obtain the icon. About 85% of all the logs that I have seen for Jeep TBs are from people who got them in events or grabbed the # from a buddy, ect. This kind of cheapens the meaning of the icon for those that went to a difficult cache to find one. People WILL come to events that DONT have white jeeps. I have a watch on several jeeps, and today I just received 15 e-mails from ONE that was at an event. The fun is finding them in a cache Just my personal opinion.

Edited July 11, 2005 by 4wheelin_fool

9.4k · July 11, 2005

1 bug you've never seen

Ah, but they did all see it. See my post above.

Here is a thought.

You are not your brothers keeper!!!

You play your game and let everyone else play theirs. If it bothers you that much, don't play, or don't look at how other people play. Stop trying to be the Geo-police. Its not your job. If your life is ruined by the actions of others than you need to find another sport where the actions of others can't harm you. Solitaire maybe??

If someone logges all the jeep TBs and never sees a single one it doesnt affect anyone but them unless we let it bother us. Don't let it bother you. Ignore everyone else and just have fun. Unless your idea of fun is trying to make trouble for others. in that case you must be in heaven.

Yes it bothers people. They log picking up the bug and someone takes it. Now they have to log picking it up again before they can drop it off. I don't like people that give me extra work to do.

2.6k · July 11, 2005

Here is a thought.

You are not your brothers keeper!!!

You play your game and let everyone else play theirs. If it bothers you that much, don't play, or don't look at how other people play. Stop trying to be the Geo-police. Its not your job. If your life is ruined by the actions of others than you need to find another sport where the actions of others can't harm you. Solitaire maybe??

If someone logges all the jeep TBs and never sees a single one it doesnt affect anyone but them unless we let it bother us. Don't let it bother you. Ignore everyone else and just have fun. Unless your idea of fun is trying to make trouble for others. in that case you must be in heaven.

Here's another thought: if you're going to say something stupid, you probably shouldn't say it in big red letters.

Few things reach right down into the old, old braincells and stir people up like nofairsies. Try cutting in the head of the line for movie tickets or driving past a traffic jam in the breakdown and see. This is the stuff we learned in kindergarten, and nowhere do we take it more seriously than when we play games. Me, I wouldn't want it any other way.

It would be awfully sweet if this fellow won the drawing and lost on the strength of dishonest logs, but I don't think that's how it works. If I understand it correctly, the drawing portion has nothing to do with the Jeep TB's, and the TB part is solely on the basis of photographs taken. No real contact, no photos. So, basically, this guy is doing no more than standing at the head of the auditorium with his pants around his ankles.

Woohoo! You go, d00d!

6.1k · July 12, 2005

(Vargseld? ™ @ Jul 10 2005, 08:30 PM) Unless people shared the numbers on their bugs only 1 was logged by multiple people, and that's because I read the number off of the last one to be raffled off, so that everyone who attended would get the icon. There's a big difference between that and 14 that you've never even seen

Vargseld? You've been a very NAUGHTY boy ! :lol:

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=191220

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=191677

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=190849

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=190299

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=189562

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=189463

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=189283

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=192561

I would suggest putting a lock on the topic

Edited July 12, 2005 by 4wheelin_fool

1.2k · July 12, 2005

You've totally missed the original point. If you must know, I logged those 8 because my friends and I got them at GW3 and shared the numbers, so really there's nothing fake about the logs. Some people, like you, might think that's lame/cheating/fake/whatever, but as far as I'm concerned I held them and therefore logged them. Nothing fake about that. I bet you'd have done the same thing if you were in my shoes.

I don't see any reason to lock the thread, but I wont be replying to it anymore. You've formed an opinion and obviously have a vastly different idea of what fake means than I do. I got a reply from Eartha, so I've gotten what I came for.

Edit as it was supposed to say wont reply to it, not you.

Edited July 13, 2005 by Vargseld? ™

3.1k · July 12, 2005

I don't think it's cheating or it's anything in particular. Honestly I don't care what anyone else does as that doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game and I wonder why anyone else would care?

2.6k · July 12, 2005

I don't think it's cheating or it's anything in particular. Honestly I don't care what anyone else does as that doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game and I wonder why anyone else would care?

I count myself an enemy of rules and sanctions and formalities but -- honest-to-god, people -- when did not giving a crap about anything become the gold standard of ethics?

6.1k · July 13, 2005

I dont believe its cheating. I was just holding you to your own standards. Whether someone pads the #s by getting the code off of someone else's picture, or swaps #s with a buddy, there's not much of a difference to me. Its like someone who comes back from a day of fishing with a load of catfish - from the supermarket. Its not cheating because everyone can see where the #s came from, but you really have to look. No, I wouldnt do it, I have no motive to. Back in the old days, we used to get jeep travelbugs out of caches. And we walked to school in 2 feet of snow, uphill, both ways....

July 13, 2005

<snip> but as far as I'm concerned I held them and therefore logged them. Nothing fake about that. I bet you'd have done the same thing if you were in my shoes.

I beg to differ. I've been to events and had WJTBs in my hand, I've been on caches with friends who had WJTBs and they dropped them into caches. Since I didn't FIND them I won't log then.

ymmv

July 13, 2005

Seems like everyone has an opinion. I guess not everyone has ethics.

2.2k · July 13, 2005

I logged a grab on a whole box of WJTB's that were shipped to my doorstep for distribution. Since none of them were actually found in a cache, anyone wanna flame me for it?

2.2k · July 13, 2005

I logged a grab on a whole box of WJTB's that were shipped to my doorstep for distribution. Since none of them were actually found in a cache, anyone wanna flame me for it?

My flame thrower is not turned on yet this morning. I just really, truly cannot understand why you would bother to log them as grabs?

2.2k · July 13, 2005

I logged a grab on a whole box of WJTB's that were shipped to my doorstep for distribution. Since none of them were actually found in a cache, anyone wanna flame me for it?

My flame thrower is not turned on yet this morning. I just really, truly cannot understand why you would bother to log them as grabs?

To drop em into my distribution event.

July 13, 2005

You are not your brothers keeper!!!

You play your game and let everyone else play theirs. If it bothers you that much, don't play, or don't look at how other people play.

Then why is it called a geocaching community?

Stop trying to be the Geo-police. Its not your job. Ignore everyone else and just have fun.

That's right ... don't worry about anyone else. We shouldn't remove all traces of our hunt and rehide the cache so that the next visitor has the same (or better) experience than we enjoyed ... it's not our job.

We shouldn't report the problem at the cache we just visited, much less take it upon ourselves to fix the problem ... it's not our job. :mad:

For Heaven's sake, we shouldn't CITO ... we didn't make the mess, it's not our problem, and it's not our job.

If it's not obvious that my words are dripping with sarcasm, let me state it very plainly that I couldn't disagree with you more. We, as individuals and as a community, are very much "our brother's keepers."

2.1k · July 13, 2005

I logged a grab on a whole box of WJTB's that were shipped to my doorstep for distribution. Since none of them were actually found in a cache, anyone wanna flame me for it?

My flame thrower is not turned on yet this morning. I just really, truly cannot understand why you would bother to log them as grabs?

To drop em into my distribution event.

I did the same thing with the 40 I got last year, and got some ugly emails about hoarding the jeeps...I logged them into the event, and gave them all away...hoarding...

I was so moved by the hate-mail from the geo-brown-shirts that I did exactly the same thing this year.

2.2k · July 13, 2005

I actually find that people complaining actually makes me increase the amount of activity that they complain about.

8.8k · July 13, 2005

You are not your brothers keeper!!!

You play your game and let everyone else play theirs. If it bothers you that much, don't play, or don't look at how other people play.

Then why is it called a geocaching community?

Stop trying to be the Geo-police. Its not your job. Ignore everyone else and just have fun.

That's right ... don't worry about anyone else. We shouldn't remove all traces of our hunt and rehide the cache so that the next visitor has the same (or better) experience than we enjoyed ... it's not our job.

We shouldn't report the problem at the cache we just visited, much less take it upon ourselves to fix the problem ... it's not our job.

For Heaven's sake, we shouldn't CITO ... we didn't make the mess, it's not our problem, and it's not our job.

If it's not obvious that my words are dripping with sarcasm, let me state it very plainly that I couldn't disagree with you more. We, as individuals and as a community, are very much "our brother's keepers."

This is not at all what Lapaglia is saying.

Yes we should rehide the cache as we found it, yes we should trash out, yes we should report probelms with the cache, but NO we should not make rules for others where there are no rules. There are no rules about logging travel bugs. I disagree with people logging them if they haven't even seen them, but I do not disagree with logging bugs you have seen at and event or in a cache. It lets the Bug owner know the bug is still there, still moving. This has nothing to do with cache maintenance. It has to do with travel bug logging.

July 13, 2005

This is not at all what Lapaglia is saying.

Okay, so we should only be our brother's keeper from 2pm - 4pm on alternate Tuesdays, and only regarding XYZ but most definitely not QRS.

2k · July 13, 2005

Wow! These Jeeps sure cause a lot of conversation.

My personal preference is to actually see a Jeep prior to logging it. That's just my preference though. I think that passing a Jeep along, or having it at an event is valid -- but I think they should eventually circulate within caches -- preferably interesting caches in the spirit of what Jeep (the company) is trying to say -- caches are in the outdoors and Jeep's can take you there....

I was fortunate to get a Jeep that I am able to take to a event this weekend -- then I will place it in a cache to travel the world. (at least until someone nabs it and places it into their "geo-toy" box.

I can't win the contest. So I don't care about that.

6.1k · July 13, 2005

There is NOTHING wrong with logging or"grabbing" a jeep you received to distribute and I dont see any flames in this thread for that. It is good to have an initial starting point. However passing the # around to your buddies(NOT saying you did that, WH) is a different story, as these are VIRGIN jeeps........

Edited July 13, 2005 by 4wheelin_fool

6.1k · July 13, 2005

NFA did the right thing by logging and distributing the jeeps at the event(although caches would have been better in my personal opinion) But there are SEVEN yellow jeeps STILL logged into the event from 6-18-04. I can understand people getting upset about this, if they havent been able to log one at all. One cacher still has 3 yellow jeeps in her possesion from the event. The 7 people that got them at the event, did they think they were collectible doorprizes? If they were in a actual geocache I think some people would more likely understand the "travel" concept - moving from cache to cache. The recent white jeep event (from a few days ago)has 6 white jeeps still in the event cache also. I hope they dont meet the same fate. I dont understand why people would keep them. They have no value to any one that doesnt go geocaching. And to geocachers their only value is moving them along. Am I right? Would a cacher really pay money for one? How stupid is that?

Edited July 14, 2005 by 4wheelin_fool

July 13, 2005

Can you arrest someone for farting in a crowded elevator?

Darn. Another hobby shot to heck!

2.2k · July 13, 2005

NFA did the right thing by logging and distributing the jeeps at the event(although caches would have been better in my personal opinion) But there are SEVEN yellow jeeps STILL logged into the event from 6-18-04. I can understand people getting upset about this, if they havent been able to log one at all. One cacher still has 3 yellow jeeps in her possesion from the event, and recieved a white one from a recent event. The 7 people that got them at the event, did they think they were collectible doorprizes? If they were in a actual geocache I think some people would more likely understand the "travel" concept - moving from cache to cache. The recent white jeep event (fron a few days ago)has 7 white jeeps still in the event cache also. I hope they dont meet the same fate. I dont understand why people would keep them. They have no value to any one that doesnt go geocaching. And to geocachers their only value is moving them along. Am I right? Would a cacher really pay money for one? How stupid is that?

When I held my WJTB distribution event, I wrote down who took what Jeep so that I could send out a friendly reminder to them should their jeep stay looged into the event too long.

I am please to report that all WJTB's were logged out of the event within a couple days.

July 14, 2005

In the grand scheme of things...who cares. If I find it I log it; be it in a cache, or at an event. If I was given the opportunity to hold a bunch of WJTB's before distributing them, I would be stupid to not log them as found.

July 14, 2005

If I was given the opportunity to hold a bunch of WJTB's before distributing them, I would be stupid to not log them as found.

I have no problem with anyone logging any TB that they actually handled. But why would you "be stupid not to log them?"

6.1k · July 14, 2005

If they want to keep people from keeping the jeeps for themselves, they ought to announce that after the contest is over they will put ANOTHER 5000(or as many as it takes) up for SALE. That way nobody will have any interest in thinking they are "collectibles" as long as there are some available. I would duplicate all 5000 names(but with different ID tags) and ship the jeeps out to the buyers with the jeep corp as the owner - but give the buyers an option to change the name and ownership, or keep it the same. That way people could keep them if they wanted to, or send them off with their own name attached. Adopting them would be a good idea if it was after the contest and you had one(of the original 5000) in your possession, you could pay Groundspeak for a "title" and then choose to keep it, or continue to have it travel as a TB. (But if you kept one for longer than 22 days during the contest period any future "ownership" claims would be revoked) If many people chose to keep them, there would still be many identical ones available for sale and in circulation.

July 14, 2005

If they want to keep people from keeping the jeeps for themselves, they ought to announce that after the contest is over they will put ANOTHER 5000(or as many as it takes) up for SALE. That way nobody will have any interest in thinking they are "collectibles"

I imagine that TPTB intended the (virgin) WJTBs dropped surreptiously (not assigned) into caches to be nice surprises, but I would wager that a big percentage of them became instant collectibles. [HUMOR] From what I've learned in this thread, that's okay, though, because the people who pick 'em up and don't log them are merely "playing the game their way." It doesn't really matter, and no harm is done, because the "fake jeep loggers" will somehow discover the tag numbers and log "virtual finds" on those jeeps just the same. [/HUMOR]

Incidentally, I read in another thread that the exact same toy jeep can be purchased for a couple of dollars at many of the toy mega-marts. You could purchase one to keep for yourself, or you could attach a regular TB tag to it and circulate it as "The Fake Jeep" TB. (It's probably already been done.)

Edited July 14, 2005 by Yankees Win!

2.6k · July 14, 2005

Incidentally, I read in another thread that the exact same toy jeep can be purchased for a couple of dollars at many of the toy mega-marts. You could purchase one to keep for yourself, or you could attach a regular TB tag to it and circulate it as "The Fake Jeep" TB. (It's probably already been done.)

That is actually a splendid idea! You could call it "Psych...!"

I don't think I'm cruel enough to launch it myself, though. Imagine the look on the poor cacher's face...first delighted surprise, then crestfallen disappointment.

No, I don't think I'm cruel enough.

Definitely, probably not.

2.2k · July 14, 2005

Incidentally, I read in another thread that the exact same toy jeep can be purchased for a couple of dollars at many of the toy mega-marts. You could purchase one to keep for yourself, or you could attach a regular TB tag to it and circulate it as "The Fake Jeep" TB. (It's probably already been done.)

That is actually a splendid idea! You could call it "Psych...!"

I don't think I'm cruel enough to launch it myself, though. Imagine the look on the poor cacher's face...first delighted surprise, then crestfallen disappointment.

No, I don't think I'm cruel enough.

Definitely, probably not.

Ill launch it Auntie.

Just gotta find one in a store first.

1k · July 14, 2005

I'd launch one like that, though I suspect that even it might not last long.

July 17, 2005

Why is it that no one has pointed out the "commercial" nature of this entire Jeep campaign? It seems to me that it contradicts the "rules" of geocaching that are stated on the website under "cache listing requirements":

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

Why is it considered acceptable to promote a product through a Travel Bug when it isn't with a cache?

2.4k · July 17, 2005

Incidentally, I read in another thread that the exact same toy jeep can be purchased for a couple of dollars at many of the toy mega-marts. You could purchase one to keep for yourself, or you could attach a regular TB tag to it and circulate it as "The Fake Jeep" TB. (It's probably already been done.)

That is actually a splendid idea! You could call it "Psych...!"

I don't think I'm cruel enough to launch it myself, though. Imagine the look on the poor cacher's face...first delighted surprise, then crestfallen disappointment.

No, I don't think I'm cruel enough.

Definitely, probably not.

Ill launch it Auntie.

Just gotta find one in a store first.

There are at least nine like that out there (inlcuding one of ours). If you go to "Track Travel Bugs" and then "Advanced Search", and search for keyword "White Jeep Travel Bug", there are 5009 hits, although Jeep only put out 5000. The first three in the resulting list are fakes; they're called 'Unofficial White Jeep Travel Bug "<name>"'. If you click on the ">>" link you can see that the last six in the list are also fakes, but their names are made to look real.

I thought it was funny when after we released our fake one, White Jeep Travel Bug "Wannabe", I looked for others and saw that there were two other impostors at the time -- and one of the other two was also named "Wannabe"! (Although the other one has never been released.) New impostors have been created since then.

We've found six white jeeps in walmarts for $1.97 each. They're identical to the travel bug jeeps.

hey, I just noticed -- today is our white jeep TB's first birthday. It's a recycled tag from one of our other TBs that went missing (a yellow jeep), and it was first released one year ago today. Happy Birthday, ya little faker.

3.8k · July 17, 2005

Why is it that no one has pointed out the "commercial" nature of this entire Jeep campaign? It seems to me that it contradicts the "rules" of geocaching that are stated on the website under "cache listing requirements":

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

Why is it considered acceptable to promote a product through a Travel Bug when it isn't with a cache?

If Groundspeak chooses to do a promotion with JEEP, then that's their perogative.

If they choose to not allow you to place a cache in a coffee shop, that's their perogative, too.

TBs are not caches, so aren't bound to the listing guidelines you quoted. If you want to purchase and distribute several thousand TBs to promote your company, I don't think you'll find any resistance from Groundspeak.

Fake Jeep Logs

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