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Revolution!!!!


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I'm a newbie, and I have to say I'm a bit intimidated at the number of threads about junk found in caches. I don't particularly plan on trading too much (I have enough junk of my own!), but I'm wondering what sorts of things are NOT considered junk. I just spent way too much money on GPS receiver, so of course I'd probably follow the suggestion of going to the dollar store and seeing what sorts of cool stuff I can find there. However, if I want to trade up and wind up with stuff that I don't think is as good as what I bought at the dollar store... I think I'd rather just pick out what I want at the dollar store and keep it :D

 

At any rate, how do you feel about things like geodes or mineral specimens? I'd hate to think someone would get mad if I left what I think is cool but what someone else might just consider a stupid old rock :D

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I think this complaint comes more from people in the position of cache hiders than those who are in the position of finding them. My personal solution to this was to find the cheapest stuff I could find to start caches with. Sometimes I took some stuff from caches that were so full they left the lid loose or caches I've pulled. Any way that i makes it into one of three Cache Boxes, I have no attachment to anything in there. I even considered going back to a department store last week that was selling a bin of DVDs for $.25 each. They'd likely be horrid movies but excellent swag from my POV.

 

We had a conversation in 2003 in my area that if you start your cache with stuff that has $0.00 value in your own eyes, the "Value" can't go down. It seems to have worked for me even though I still get comments about good swag and still spend time contemplating what goes in the next ammo can. I worry more about people in my area leaving too much stuff in the caches. Take! Take! Take! It's my gift. As petty as it is, it's still a gift.

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At any rate, how do you feel about things like geodes or mineral specimens? I'd hate to think someone would get mad if I left what I think is cool but what someone else might just consider a stupid old rock :D

If you left minerals or geodes I would stalk you, or at least every cache you went to and I would be the next finder :D

 

As it is there is a cacher whose 'territory' overlaps my zone and I chase after their polished stones.

 

It's not everyone's thing, but it is definitely mine and enough others that such things would find a happy home.

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If you left minerals or geodes I would stalk you, or at least every cache you went to and I would be the next finder :D

:D Well, I've been stalked for less valid reasons... I'll let you know if I start placing geodes and stuff :D Hrm, now where'd I put that rock tumbler?

 

:D

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  It would be great to have GC.com offer a rating system for caches (which has been mentioned before).  With a rating system similar the method used to rate the terrain and the difficulty, finders could leave some sort of rating that others could use to determine whether they wanted to attempt the find. A rating system, where the rating is related to Experience of the finder based on No. of finds, Swag quality, just to name a couple.

 

A rating system of this kind would require some time to mature but once you visited enough caches which had already been rated you could use Pocket Queries to filter caches by their Finder Rating and therefore search only for caches that would come close to your particular needs.  I'm sure there would be significant discussion on how to rate a cache form a finder's perspective, off topic for this topic.

 

I like the hunt and the swag.  I like puzzles, multies, and caches that make me learn something of the place.  I have found that using the pocket queries and reading the logs helps me know what to expect and therefore rarely disappointed.  Yes I am a newb but I am a firm believer in "You get what you pay for"

 

Cheers

 

Muddler

I disagree.

I work my butt off, to produce what I think is a good cache, and the rating system, which is very subjective shoots it down !....

No thanks.

I judge what I did by the comments, "great cache hide", etc.

 

If I don't like a cache I found, I simply say thanks and leave it at that.

Since I don't know the person's background, it would be wrong for me to

comment on the quality. What if it is a first for a 10 y/o ? They wanted to

do by themselves and we as finders "dump" on them ?

Not a good plan !

 

If you don't like their cache, say "Thank you" and leave it at that.

Filter that person out, if you want from your next hunt.

 

Just my humble opinion... (and it's hard for a Texan to be humble !)

 

Rick

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If you don't like their cache, say "Thank you" and leave it at that.

Filter that person out, if you want from your next hunt.

A perfect response. If you can't say something nice, be polite and move on or don't say anything at all. Maybe suggest the cache could use a little maintenance check by the owner and leave it at that.

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given that this sport is family freindly then toys should be expected. what could really be in a cache that as an adult you really must have. toys are great for the kids even if it is a fast food toy. on the harder to find caches i try to leave better things, but on most caches i sign the log and leave a pen or a toy or nothing.

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We are having a cachers' get together this weekend. It should be fun, but beyond that, there are also a bunch of newbies in our area who are coming. We are going to have a short talk on the history of the sport and on the "Cacher's Creed". Swag and trading fair will be brought up AND for a door prize we havea swag bag.

 

In it are some not so great stuff like plastic snakes, frogs and lizards (which I love to find), dog tennis balls, a couple of charm-bracelet charms, a Coleman keychain, some glass "gems" from Corning, NY artisians (we're close by), some upscale marbles (again from Corning, not the handmade ones, but cooler than average), glowsticks, a Herkimer diamond (quartz crystal), and I can't remember what else.

 

The point is, I hope some of our folks get the message. Not that everyone can afford wonderful swag, but you should not trade for TB's at least...

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given that this sport is family freindly then toys should be expected. what could really be in a cache that as an adult you really must have. toys are great for the kids even if it is a fast food toy. on the harder to find caches i try to leave better things, but on most caches i sign the log and leave a pen or a toy or nothing.

I agree that toys aren't a bad thing in this sport. I don't understand the desire to get rid of them in exchange for adult interest only items. After all, if we get rid of the toys...the kids will just be trading for the items you may actually want, rather then the toys you don't.

 

I'm also rather surprised with the continual reference to newbies being targeted as the culprits of poor trading practices. I believe it's quite the contrary. I would think that newbies are overly excited about the sport and still willing to invest more. It's been our experience that mega-cachers (for lack of a better name), refering to cachers trying to crame in a mass out of caches in one day, are more likely the ones to trade quickly & poorly in a quest to get-in-get-out-get-on-to-the-next-one. If they're hitting 20+ caches in a short time, clearly they won't invest a lot of money in each trade item (nor want to carry an overly heavy swag bag filled with quality items). Twenty plus caches at $2.00 a pop...ouch! That could be an expensive way to spend a day.

 

Reality is: (a sad fact I had to recently resign myself to as well)

 

In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes...and cheap swag.

-- Benjamin Franklin

Edited by ZillahBillies
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I believe it's quite the contrary. I would think that newbies are overly excited about the sport and still willing to invest more. It's been our experience that mega-cachers (for lack of a better name), refering to cachers trying to crame in a mass out of caches in one day, are more likely the ones to trade quickly & poorly in a quest to get-in-get-out-get-on-to-the-next-one. If they're hitting 20+ caches in a short time, clearly they won't invest a lot of money in each trade item (nor want to carry an overly heavy swag bag filled with quality items). Twenty plus caches at $2.00 a pop...ouch! That could be an expensive way to spend a day.

That isn't my experience at all with the mega cachers I know. They either trade fairly, trade up, or don't trade at all. I know a few if the cache has brought them to a worthy experience, they also leave behind a personalized signature item. These are in tune of $2-$5 or more. If the cache was clever, I know of a few that leave behind wooden nickles or buttons as a memento of appreciation in addition to the other swag and signature items they carry.

 

I guess what it really comes down to is folks that don't trade fairly are from all walks so it is unfair to classify any one group of people as the culprit. I guess too, that's why some of the old timers that posted on this thread expressed wonderment as to when or why the game went from quality swag to just the experience. The higher number of participants brings this swing to the game as a reality that should be expected.

 

So what can one do about the degradation of the swag? Just be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Be a role model and do what you can to educate without becoming an evangelist or whiner about it. Use guilt trips. If you see a partner trading down, toss in another item in front of them stating your reason for it. Make them think about their actions by your simple action. As I've posted in other threads, it all comes down to localized organizational peer pressure to educate the uneducated. Even then, you will still get some folks that value things differently from you. Expect it and don't be disappointed.

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Just my two cents, being a cacher who is, 95% of the time, being followed by at least one, and usually three humans under the age of 7, McToys in caches are GREAT! Not to the exclusion of anything else, mind you. It is shocking how excited a three year old is when finding a Shrek watch, neopet or teletubbies keychain at the end of a short hike. Frankly, they could care less for the higher end do-dads. Swag is all dependent on where you are coming from. As the usual adult member of the group, I am a TNLNSL type, unless there is a TB present. :blink:

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That isn't my experience at all with the mega cachers I know. They either trade fairly, trade up, or don't trade at all. I know a few if the cache has brought them to a worthy experience, they also leave behind a personalized signature item. These are in tune of $2-$5 or more. If the cache was clever, I know of a few that leave behind wooden nickles or buttons as a memento of appreciation in addition to the other swag and signature items they carry.

 

I guess what it really comes down to is folks that don't trade fairly are from all walks so it is unfair to classify any one group of people as the culprit. I guess too, that's why some of the old timers that posted on this thread expressed wonderment as to when or why the game went from quality swag to just the experience. The higher number of participants brings this swing to the game as a reality that should be expected.

 

So what can one do about the degradation of the swag? Just be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Be a role model and do what you can to educate without becoming an evangelist or whiner about it. Use guilt trips. If you see a partner trading down, toss in another item in front of them stating your reason for it. Make them think about their actions by your simple action. As I've posted in other threads, it all comes down to localized organizational peer pressure to educate the uneducated. Even then, you will still get some folks that value things differently from you. Expect it and don't be disappointed.

Sorry. I was basing it off of repeated experiences in hitting caches after large groups of mega cachers had gone through the area shortly before us - with posts refering to "this is X out of XY for the day," only to leave things like feathers, rocks, rusty train track ties and even a couple of empty power bar wrappers . But you are right, it's not a fair call on my part, considering it is just as much of a blanket statement about mega cachers as the ones made about newbies. As you say, just expect it and there's no disappointment.

 

Afterall, with our kids being the "traders" of the group, we trade mostly toys anyway...which rates as well as empty power bar wrappers around here. :blink:

Edited by ZillahBillies
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I am a rank beginner to this game (only 6 finds). From my limited experience I can honestly say that if swag was my motivation, my Vista C would be on eBay even as we speak. I enjoy most everything else related to the hunt - the research, the technology, getting my lazy butt off the couch, the thrill of the find , and seeing places I would never find on my own.

 

I am in the learning stage. For the first caches I basically took something from the cache and left it in the next cache. I have done a LOT of reading in the forums and I am beginning to develop my own style for this stuff.

 

My wife and I were never blessed (?) with kids, so I am not real sure about what toys kids would find interesting. I am tending to look for items that people need from time to time such as, first aid kits, tweezers (everything in the AZ desert has the ability to make them appreciated!), I am looking for affordable zipper pull compasses. Stuff like that.

 

One of the problems I see for newbies is that if all you find in your first caches is geo-junk, you begin to think that is the way the game is played.

 

Edit: This is probably a little off topic, but I see some cachers with 100 or more caches out. Assuming they are not LUMs (Lame Urban Micros), how the heck do you maintain all of those and still find time for caching?

Edited by TucsonBill
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It all depends on WHY you go caching. At first, I went caching to find the "TREASURE", which intrigued me. I could not understand a game surviving by people hiding valuable items(2001) in the woods without them being stolen. The only barrier for people to play is -owning a GPS, and -having internet availability(and being computer semi-literate). But after finding a few caches, I wasnt interested in the swag anymore, it was the LOCATION and the journey to it. Many caches introduced me to interesting areas to explore - that I had never known about - even though I believed that I was very familiar with the area. I notice some people cache for the HIDE - example: a micro on top of a never-used flagpole in the woods, or a fake electrical box with a geocaching sticker on the outside where you need to do a puzzle to figure out the combo to the padlock. Both of these were in boring locations, but the cleverness of the hide made them worthwhile. Thats why I do it #1-location, #2-hide, and the last reason is trading swag. Of course I like to look at the swag because sometimes its interesting - or take a travel bug to move, but otherwise- so what. I try to hide regular sized containers so people can move travel bugs, but thats the only reason. Its easy to fill them(youd be surprized at how much decent stuff you can get at Wal-mart for under $2 each) If people are trading crap it doesnt really bother me, I figure it either kids, or someone thats really hard off.

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See, I do like the swag, but I could care less if it cost 1 cent to 1000 dollars as long as it isn't garbage. Garbage means it is filthy, broken, expired or otherwise unsuitable for it's intended purpose. I appreciate the toys having a child myself, but my complaint is when the swag is all dirty, broken toys, nothing of interest for an adult and often nothing a kid wants either. At that point the entire idea of swag is pointless.

 

Of course folks who place caches can set them up that way if they wish, but all caches seem to change from a mix of items to kids only to stuff even kids don't want.

 

Complaining about it is pointless since even if I persuaded eveyone reading this to trade evenly or up , I would be reaching .001% of the cachers.

 

What I do see from the logs though agrees with a previous poster, a large part of the problem are the turbo cachers who hit several caches in a day. This isn't an indictment against all really active cachers certainly as many don't trade at all, however the more active a bad trader is, the more damage they do, it is just common sense. Bad traders can be highly active, moderately active or fairly inactive, but the more active, the more they contribute to the problem.

 

This goes back to my suggestion of seeking caches that take some time to get to. Turbo cachers in it for numbers are going to hit the chain of parking lot micros first and cachers toting young kids aren't going to be as interested either in longer distance treks.

 

Also, the idea of a rating system isn't something I favor. It is being tried elsewhere and in my opinion it has turned into a political nightmare with people rating caches low when they don't like someone and high when they do. It is a personailty rating more than a cache rating. Besides, why punish a cache placer on account of the bad traders who degrade the effort?

 

Now, for those who say "Don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed; you shouldn't be in it for the swag anyway" I find that very disrespectful of those who do place caches with decent initial swag. I am sure they would like folks to trade fairly and I think their wishes ought to be given some weight. The dismissive attitude of some to bad swag is a part of the problem I think.

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given that this sport is family freindly then toys should be expected. what could really be in a cache that as an adult you really must have. toys are great for the kids even if it is a fast food toy. on the harder to find caches i try to leave better things, but on most caches i sign the log and leave a pen or a toy or nothing.

I agree that toys aren't a bad thing in this sport. I don't understand the desire to get rid of them in exchange for adult interest only items. After all, if we get rid of the toys...the kids will just be trading for the items you may actually want, rather then the toys you don't.

 

I'm also rather surprised with the continual reference to newbies being targeted as the culprits of poor trading practices. I believe it's quite the contrary. I would think that newbies are overly excited about the sport and still willing to invest more. It's been our experience that mega-cachers (for lack of a better name), refering to cachers trying to crame in a mass out of caches in one day, are more likely the ones to trade quickly & poorly in a quest to get-in-get-out-get-on-to-the-next-one. If they're hitting 20+ caches in a short time, clearly they won't invest a lot of money in each trade item (nor want to carry an overly heavy swag bag filled with quality items). Twenty plus caches at $2.00 a pop...ouch! That could be an expensive way to spend a day.

 

Reality is: (a sad fact I had to recently resign myself to as well)

 

In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes...and cheap swag.

-- Benjamin Franklin

there has been more than one time where i would not let my son trade any thing because either i forgot to grab my back pack with trade items or we just have any thing that was a eqal to what we found. i think it all comes down to personal responsabilty as a cacher or change the web site to members only. so that there is a vested intrest in taking care of the caches. perhaps people should heed a cache page better when it has a theme to it , make a please no Mc toy cache. I try to put better trade items in the member only caches because those are the people helping to pay for the site which makes this not only possible but very user friendly. oh and i love the BF quote.

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In our caching area I got so tired of hearing about good, bad, old or new swag, what you should do and what you shouldn't do to trade. We decided to just drop a geocoin in every once in awhile and that's that. We are coming up with a signature item soon and will just drop one in each cache that is big enough for it. We love to cache and we sure don't want anyone's gripes to spoil it for us (not that it really would). We put good stuff in all of our large caches and after that it has to recover itself. I'm sorry if we are part of the problem and not of the solution but life's too rough to have to listen to all of the petty trade stuff. Happy caching to all.

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Now, for those who say "Don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed; you shouldn't be in it for the swag anyway" I find that very disrespectful of those who do place caches with decent initial swag. I am sure they would like folks to trade fairly and I think their wishes ought to be given some weight. The dismissive attitude of some to bad swag is a part of the problem I think.

I agree with most of what you have to say except:

 

The advice isn't disrespectful nor dismissive. It is realistic and with experience and it is given multitudes of times by people that have been there and done that. It is human nature we are dealing with and we have learned to deal with it is to lower expectations enough so that you don't walk away disappointed.

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So what can one do about the degradation of the swag? Just be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Be a role model and do what you can to educate without becoming an evangelist or whiner about it. Use guilt trips. If you see a partner trading down, toss in another item in front of them stating your reason for it. Make them think about their actions by your simple action.

Sorry. I was basing it off of repeated experiences in hitting caches after large groups of mega cachers had gone through the area shortly before us - with posts refering to "this is X out of XY for the day," only to leave things like feathers, rocks, rusty train track ties and even a couple of empty power bar wrappers .

Interesting contrast of opinions. I can't speak for the localized behavior in the PNW, but I seriously doubt it's that different than in NC. When I'm out with other power/mega/uber cachers on a numbers run, we never trade, and usually don't even spend time on TB's. On those days, our FUN is derived from the rush of finding 'another one' and racing off to the next one.

 

Other days, when the FUN target is different, and perhaps we are aiming at other caches for other reasons, we tend to trade quite fairly, or just drop some sig items.

 

I have never seen anyone drop feathers, rocks, or trash wrappers in a cache, and I have found a few :blink: so far. (well OK there was that one time I left a tail feather from my stuffed parrot in the final stage of the Pirate themed multi cache. But that was after hauling the silly thing around on my shoulder for the three consecutive Sundays we spent working on that one, and it was in keeping with the cache's theme. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

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Sorry. I was basing it off of repeated experiences in hitting caches after large groups of mega cachers had gone through the area shortly before us - with posts refering to "this is X out of XY for the day," only to leave things like feathers, rocks, rusty train track ties and even a couple of empty power bar wrappers .

Are you sure they left that? Or is it possible they chose not to trade and it was stuff that was there before the cache machine? I know of those cache machines, and I know of the people doing the power caching. You generally don't have time to do the trades. You barely have enough time to sign the log and get out of the way. If you followed some of the logs, most of them will have stated TNLNSL TFTH and the peer pressure is on to not leave trash in the cache.

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Look what happnin' in the street

Got a revolution, got a revolution

People rockin' to the beat

Got a revolution, got a revolution

One generation got old

Next generation got sold

Volunteers of America

Volunteers of America

Jefferson Airplane

 

(sorry, I couldn't remember the exact words but, you know how it was...) :blink:

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Thats it. Ive had enough. almost every cache i find has hardly any trade in them that is of value (when i do trade i trade up though). even my own caches are falling apart as far as the trade goes. i try to keep them up but people keep coming with junk. i think they cache with a trash bag (and I'm not talking about cache in trash out). its time to change. what can we do? :lol:

I've read the whole thread so far, so here's .02. Swag is part of the game. More so for some than for others. Example: I took a 9 year old boy with me last Fall. We found 3 caches. There was nothing that you could call 'good swag'. I ran into him this last weekend and he wanted to talk about Geocaching. He was still excited by a (I thought) crappy thing he had gotten from one of the caches we had found. At the time I had been embarassed that ther was nothing better in the cache and I also felt the need to "upswag" (I love that word, and recommend it to the lexicon).

Oh, the point? :D Sure, clean the junk out, upswag when you can, but you don't have to spend a bunch to keep some useful stuff in the cache. Leave a couple of AA's, a brand new pack of 'tissue' (in a zip-lock), what's wrong with a $1 pack of new cards? These are all useful and cheap.

 

The downswagging of caches has always be with us, all we can do as owners and cachers it to upswag and keep having fun.

 

Bluespreacher

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I agree with most of what you have to say except:

 

The advice isn't disrespectful nor dismissive. It is realistic and with experience and it is given multitudes of times by people that have been there and done that. It is human nature we are dealing with and we have learned to deal with it is to lower expectations enough so that you don't walk away disappointed.

I agree that on a personal, practical level having low expectations for cache contents is wise.

 

What I disagree with is expressing that attitude in a public place like these forums.

 

In my opinion the crappy traders see it and say to themselves "see, not that many people really care".

 

Of course I don't think there is anything you, I or all of us combined can do about the great unwashed masses that don't read the forums so low expectations is indeed wise, but I simply do not like seeing folks accomodate the crappy trading in a dismissive manner.

 

It might be true that it will happen no matter what, but I don't think it should ever be made light of publicly, but rather universally frowned upon even by those with no interest in trading.

 

There are people spending money and effort in an attempt to provide decent swag and their efforts, in my opinion, should be praised even if they are futile.

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I posted a reply on this thread a few days ago, thinking that this thread would fizzle out as quickly as it started. A cache is meaningless if it doesn't have somekind of enjoyment in finding it. If I find a Rolex in a cache in a 2 mile square of briars, I'm really not getting anything out of doing that cache besides mortal wounds. Sometimes leaving a CD of pictures you take while geocaching is nice. It only costs 50 cents and a few minutes of your time, and some people might enjoy seeing what other people saw geocaching. The "value" of a trade item is of how much it interests you, if more people dropped off picture CD's it might be a neat little trade item that is worthwhile for the person who finds it. Sometimes the neatest little things in the world are virtually worthless.

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I found one of those disposable cameras in a cache a coupla weeks ago - you know, the ones that people leave on the tables at wedding receptions....it was still in plastic wrap.

 

And it said "Develop before August 1997" on it. So I removed it.

 

Leaving good swag is one of those things I keep telling myself I'd like to incorporate more into my caching. But at this point I just like the hunt and mostly TNLNSL.

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Everyone has different ways of enjoying themselves and one is not better than the other, so maybe "evolution" isn't a good word because it implies advancement.

DanOCan: Evolution is non-directional, and does not mean "improve" or "advance", only change.

 

As to the thread, what I have learned from this is that I should only hide micros. To me, the fun in caching is finding the thing, and in exploring new and interesting natural areas. I never trade items, and I don't want people ripping in to me because I don't keep my cache stocked with crap that is not an important part of the hobby to me. If you want to complain about people leaving garbage, fine, but don't criticize cache owners.

Edited by EcoPit
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You say you want a revolution

Well you know

we all want to change the swag

You tell me that it's evolution

Well you know

We all want to change the swag

But when you talk about more rules

Don't you know you can count me out

Don't you know it's gonna be alright

Alright Alright

 

You say you'll change the constitution

Well you know

we all want to change your head

You tell me it's the institution

Well you know

You better free your mind instead

But if you go carrying pictures of CR, now

You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know know it's gonna be alright

Alright ALRIGHT ALRIGHT

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I agree with most of what you have to say except:

 

The advice isn't disrespectful nor dismissive. It is realistic and with experience and it is given multitudes of times by people that have been there and done that. It is human nature we are dealing with and we have learned to deal with it is to lower expectations enough so that you don't walk away disappointed.

I agree that on a personal, practical level having low expectations for cache contents is wise.

 

What I disagree with is expressing that attitude in a public place like these forums.

 

In my opinion the crappy traders see it and say to themselves "see, not that many people really care".

 

Of course I don't think there is anything you, I or all of us combined can do about the great unwashed masses that don't read the forums so low expectations is indeed wise, but I simply do not like seeing folks accomodate the crappy trading in a dismissive manner.

 

It might be true that it will happen no matter what, but I don't think it should ever be made light of publicly, but rather universally frowned upon even by those with no interest in trading.

 

There are people spending money and effort in an attempt to provide decent swag and their efforts, in my opinion, should be praised even if they are futile.

Agreed to a point. If it isn't at least expressed, then the individual is doomed to learn by the school of hard knocks rather than by the school of experience.

 

I do believe however, anytime an opinion like that is expressed, it should at least come coupled with a possible solution. As with any of my replies on this subject, I've always couched it with the need to educate so I think that puts us on the same page with different approaches.

 

Cheers!

TL

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given that this sport is family freindly then toys should be expected. what could really be in a cache that as an adult you really must have. toys are great for the kids even if it is a fast food toy. on the harder to find caches i try to leave better things, but on most caches i sign the log and leave a pen or a toy or nothing.

ITA with this. Last weekend my 12-year-old daughter, my 3-year-old grandson and myself went on a little caching trip. They were thrilled with the "junk." My grandson got a used hot wheels car that entertained him for miles. For me, it was great fun just watching them dig through the stuff and try to decide what they wanted. I left (new) dollar store items in their place. I didn't spend a lot for what I left, but in (I think) all cases, it was worth more than what we got. Personally, I want to find caches and I love TBs. If I were alone, I'd probably take/leave nothing or take nothing and leave something.

 

Taking items of any real value would make me really uncomfortable. I think it would be nice if all items put in caches were at least new, unused items, but the toys work great for us. As an adult I know that if I want something of value I work for it and buy it myself. I don't expect it to be given to me by a stranger.

 

I realize I am new and perhaps am not understanding the "rules" as they were initially intended, but I will never go caching expecting to find wonderful, valuable items.

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You say you want a revolution

Well you know

we all want to change the swag

You tell me that it's evolution

Well you know

We all want to change the swag

But when you talk about more rules

Don't you know you can count me out

Don't you know it's gonna be alright

Alright Alright

 

You say you'll change the constitution

Well you know

we all want to change your head

You tell me it's the institution

Well you know

You better free your mind instead

But if you go carrying pictures of CR, now

You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know know it's gonna be alright

Alright ALRIGHT ALRIGHT

I like that. About sums it up.

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