Travel Bug Hotels Association

February 24, 2005

I am not sure if anyone started this topic before (I did not find one here on the forums), but I have an idea.

Beeing the owner of the TB Hotel (well, B&B in Prague, Czech Republic, I was thinking to set up an informal network of TB hotels, motels, rests, B&Bs, whatever you call them.

There should be (perhaps on the web page) a list of the all TB caches, map of the world, links, one logo, etc.

This activity will promote the TB hotels around the world and will be a help for the travellers. It´s just a idea, what do you think about it? Would it be usefull for the geocachers?

(the question is oriented mainly to the TB Hotel owners, but of course everyone can answer...).

Thanks and happy geocaching

Saman

2k · February 24, 2005

Sounds like a good idea to me. I've thought about something like that in the past.

Edited February 24, 2005 by Eric K

February 24, 2005

I think if you were to set-up a webpage with an alphabetical listing of all the hotels/motels then people could browse through them.

2k · February 24, 2005

I think if you were to set-up a webpage with an alphabetical listing of all the hotels/motels then people could browse through them.

I think it would be better to have them sorted by state/region instead of by name.

February 24, 2005

Yes, of course, it is better to sort them according to the state/country.

If anyone wants to see the TB hotels in alphabetical order, he can click on hide/seek cache at gc.com and type Travel Bug hotel into the keyword section.

1.8k · February 24, 2005

Wonder if we could talk Jeremy into adding an attribute for TB Motels/Hotels,etc.....

That way, whenever the sorting by attribute feature is implemented, you could simply search for them.

22k · February 24, 2005

Wonder if we could talk Jeremy into adding an attribute for TB Motels/Hotels,etc.....

That way, whenever the sorting by attribute feature is implemented, you could simply search for them.

Already discussed here in the gc.com forum.

February 24, 2005

I've already suggested returning the NUMBER of Travel Bugs in a cache in a PQ. In this way you could search for those caches that are Travel Bug friendly and not be limited to those designated as Travel Bug Hotels. I haven't gotten any response on the suggestion.

I support the concept of an independent listing of TB Hotel sites, searchable by area.

February 24, 2005

As a frequent traveler I would love to be able to search for a TB hotel for my destination. Now people can name them whatever they want and even though they are a hotel they don't call it a hotel so you would never know doing a casual search.

8.8k · February 25, 2005

Any cache that the travel bug fits into is suitable for a travel bug to be dropped into. If you want the travel bug to move quickly, leave it in an easy to find, frequently visited, hardly ever muggled cache.

February 26, 2005

I like the idea but I dont think Tb hotel work to well.

21.9k · February 26, 2005

I've already suggested returning the NUMBER of Travel Bugs in a cache in a PQ. In this way you could search for those caches that are Travel Bug friendly and not be limited to those designated as Travel Bug Hotels. I haven't gotten any response on the suggestion.

I support the concept of an independent listing of TB Hotel sites, searchable by area.

You don't need to ask for something that's already there. Pocket queries contain information about travel bugs including the number in each cache. If I'm interested in travel bugs I can filter my PQ results to show just the caches with bugs. Then I can move down that list and see how many bugs are in each cache.

I doubt very, very much that Jeremy will add any sort of information, including a cache attribute, for travel bug hotels. He is not a big fan of the concept.

2.5k · February 27, 2005

I don't exactly blame him. We have enough problems with bugs moving in a timely manner without putting large globs of bugs somewhere muggle-able.

March 6, 2005

I doubt very, very much that Jeremy will add any sort of information, including a cache attribute, for travel bug hotels. He is not a big fan of the concept.

I don't like travel bug hotels, because many such caches are located in areas where they have a high risk of becoming lost or stolen. Travel bug hotels are designed to be easy, accessible caches so one can drop travel bugs in them quickly, but easy, accessible caches are not the best caches for the safety of travel bugs. An easy and accessible cache is more likely to be found accidentally by a non-geocacher and become lost, stolen, or rasacked, and if a cache becomes lost with travel bugs in it, then the travel bugs become lost as well.

Many of the people who visit easy, accessible caches are inexperienced or infrequent geocachers who may pick up the travel bugs, but fail to log them properly or don't move them to another cache. I'd rather move the travel bugs that I have to caches that require a little more effort to get to and are not too close to roads or parking areas. These caches are less likely to be muggled, and the person who claims the travel bug would more likely be an experienced geocacher who would know how to properly log and move the travel bug.

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

22k · March 6, 2005

I doubt very, very much that Jeremy will add any sort of information, including a cache attribute, for travel bug hotels. He is not a big fan of the concept.

I don't like travel bug hotels, because many such caches are located in areas where they have a high risk of becoming lost or stolen. Travel bug hotels are designed to be easy, accessible caches so one can drop travel bugs in them quickly, but easy, accessible caches are not the best caches for the safety of travel bugs. An easy and accessible cache is more likely to be found accidentally by a non-geocacher and become lost, stolen, or rasacked, and if a cache becomes lost with travel bugs in it, then the travel bugs become lost as well.

Many of the people who visit easy, accessible caches are inexperienced or infrequent geocachers who may pick up the travel bugs, but fail to log them properly or don't move them to another cache. I'd rather move the travel bugs that I have to caches that require a little more effort to get to and are not too close to roads or parking areas. These caches are less likely to be muggled, and the person who claims the travel bug would more likely be an experienced geocacher who would know how to properly log and move the travel bug.

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

I'm not against a main hotel listing per se, but I do think that keeping it up-to-date for the occasional cacher would be a logistical nightmare.

I side with Highpointer. Easy and close caches do not make a hotel. Add on top of that the ones with so-called trading restrictions.

I can name caches that would be far better hotels then ones I've seen listed.

Edited March 6, 2005 by BlueDeuce

March 15, 2005

Here is a list of examples showing why travel bug hotels are not a good idea. These are all "travel bug hotels" that were stolen or destroyed in Arizona, some after a short lifespan and some lost or destroyed with travel bugs inside (dates reflect months of first and last finds):

East Valley Travel Bug Hotel, Tempe, Jan. 2004 - March. 2005

West Valley Travel Bug Hotel, Surprise, April - Dec. 2004 (contents dumped in July 2004).

Badger Travel Bug Hostel, I-17 near Bumble Bee, Aug. - Nov. 2003.

The Travel Bug Hideaway, Chandler, Oct. 31 - Nov. 3, 2004 (4 days :ninja: ).

The Tucson Bugport, Tucson, Aug. 2002 - Jan. 2005.

Have Bug, Will Travel, Phoenix, Jan. 2002 - Sept. 2003 (cache contents stolen or ransacked at least three times between May 3, 2003 and Sept. 1, 2003), July 2004 - March 2005 (found at least once by a non-geocacher in July 2004 and destoyed in Feb. or March 2005).

These examples show that travel bugs hotels are risky places for travel bugs. Future travel bug hotels should not be approved unless they satisfy some rigorous requirements of safety and security to reduce the risk of travel bug losses.

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

2.5k · March 15, 2005

I agree.

There are some good ways to do it, but they usually aren't done that way. For example, Kiawa in Erie, PA has a cache at her front door. Literally - next to her front door. It's a TB hotel, but I'm pretty sure it won't get muggled two feet from her doorbell.

March 15, 2005

Future travel bug hotels should not be approved unless they satisfy some rigorous requirements of safety and security to reduce the risk of travel bug losses.

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

Well, I guess you would not know before, if the cache will be safe or not. I think the best way is to place the cache, and after some months (if it still safe) to change it to TB Hotel (if you want to have one, of course)...

2k · March 15, 2005

Here is a list of examples showing why travel bug hotels are not a good idea. These are all "travel bug hotels" that were stolen or destroyed in Arizona, some after a short lifespan and some lost or destroyed with travel bugs inside (dates reflect months of first and last finds):

East Valley Travel Bug Hotel, Tempe, Jan. 2004 - March. 2005

West Valley Travel Bug Hotel, Surprise, April - Dec. 2004 (contents dumped in July 2004).

Badger Travel Bug Hostel, I-17 near Bumble Bee, Aug. - Nov. 2003.

The Travel Bug Hideaway, Chandler, Oct. 31 - Nov. 3, 2004 (4 days ).

The Tucson Bugport, Tucson, Aug. 2002 - Jan. 2005.

Have Bug, Will Travel, Phoenix, Jan. 2002 - Sept. 2003 (cache contents stolen or ransacked at least three times between May 3, 2003 and Sept. 1, 2003), July 2004 - March 2005 (found at least once by a non-geocacher in July 2004 and destoyed in Feb. or March 2005).

These examples show that travel bugs hotels are risky places for travel bugs. Future travel bug hotels should not be approved unless they satisfy some rigorous requirements of safety and security to reduce the risk of travel bug losses.

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

I find this argument unacceptable. You could say that about any caches. I'm sure you can go to any area and find caches that aren't TB Hotels that have been ransacked.

I personally have two TB hotels that have been around since 7/24/02 and 8/10/02 that are still active.

I also have some that have been lost after a few years.

I DO NOT beleieve in the take a bug, leave a bug rule and do not follow that. That is another misconception that ALL TB hotels have that rule, they do not.

2.5k · March 15, 2005

I DO NOT beleieve in the take a bug, leave a bug rule and do not follow that. That is another misconception that ALL TB hotels have that rule, they do not.

I hate that rule.

I have a tb race going on, and almost every tb hotel the bugs are in has that rule. Or some slight variation of it.

this one requires two bugs in the cache at all times. the starting cache requires 1/1 trade if there are less than 10 in the cache this one requires an exchange

there's only one tb hotel that doesn't have that rule.

March 15, 2005

sounds like there needs to be two associations. One like a 1 star hotel, another like a 5 star That way some can have TBug hotels with the requirement of take a bug leave a bug, and another can go without the restriction.

March 15, 2005

Well, I guess I should jump in here. I do own 1 T/B hotel and my daughter also owns one. Both are in this thread as examples. Also both are easily accesible with one being in a sea of micros (our micros no less) and the other being in an area of micros and high terrain regs. I think the problems being discussed can be solved quite easily by something called "cache maintainence". If you own a lodge and some guests become squatters, it behooves you to kick them out. The ones in our cache that relates to Fly46's race we have promised to evict by the end of this month. Another way of keeping things moving is using your own hotel. If you collect a bug, drop it in your lodge and grab one from there to send on in its place (preferably the one that's been around the longest). We haven't done such with our lodge yet since it has only been around for a little over a month, but we plan on doing so as time goes on so nothing gets stuck there. (This is particularly tough with ours as it started with 40+ bugs.) Another way to keep bugs moving is to do what Agent K did. She took 5 bugs from ours, ran 'em up to Palm Coast, FL and started her own lodge.

March 15, 2005

I DO NOT beleieve in the take a bug, leave a bug rule and do not follow that. That is another misconception that ALL TB hotels have that rule, they do not.

I hate that rule.

I have a tb race going on, and almost every tb hotel the bugs are in has that rule. Or some slight variation of it.

I'm putting on my race entry TB tag a note that says "this travel bug can ignore TB hotel rules."

Hey, if you were on a high-speed race across the country, I'm sure *you'd* skip out on a hotel bill once or twice, too. I'm sure the TB hotel owners won't mind.....

[Not really, but what can I say? My TB's a wild one!]

March 16, 2005

I've been to a wide variety of TB Hotels! I think they're great! I'm sure that some of those that are easily accessable are muggled often. I like them so much that I've been "PLANNING" one of my own to put out for several months now! ....Several Months!!! I am in the final stages of preparation for it now! I've put a lot of thought into it and most of the issues I've tried to circumvent the usual problems which arise with these types of caches.

I've read the logs of many TB Hotels. Realizing that people who dont like trading TB's mostly find the hotel and "TNLNSL". So mine is "Big" enough for TB's and Regular trade items. It is going to be homemade. It will be easily accessible - the cache itself and from the Interstate (I-10 on the Mississippi Gulf Coast). It will be fairly protected - being placed at a Bed and Breakfast with the owner's permission. I won't have any "Rules" for the Hotel, except to enjoy it!!! I have bought-up TB tags in preparation of TB's leaving the B and B without a replacement! ....Heck, when you check out of a hotel/motel/B and B, do you wait for a replacement to come b/f you can leave?!!!! Nope! Like what was posted recently on this thread - it can all be summed up by "Cache Maintenance".

I like the idea of a Hotel Association - however, again, as posted recently on this thread, I think it could turn into a logistic nightmare! Not sure, exactly how you could ensure an accurate listing!

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth! I'll keep an eye on this thread for more details and ideas!

2.5k · March 16, 2005

I think the problems being discussed can be solved quite easily by something called "cache maintainence". If you own a lodge and some guests become squatters, it behooves you to kick them out. The ones in our cache that relates to Fly46's race we have promised to evict by the end of this month. Another way of keeping things moving is using your own hotel. If you collect a bug, drop it in your lodge and grab one from there to send on in its place (preferably the one that's been around the longest).

Good plans all around! This ensures that there are bugs in the cache, which is what I'm assuming such trade rules are meant for, but the bugs don't get stuck forever somewhere. :rolleyes:

March 16, 2005

I like the idea of a Hotel Association - however, again, as posted recently on this thread, I think it could turn into a logistic nightmare! Not sure, exactly how you could ensure an accurate listing!

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth! I'll keep an eye on this thread for more details and ideas!

Well, me and my friend are starting to work on the webpage. I do believe that it will be a loggistic nightmare. We have a list of country and will start to fill the database. But anyone can help us to do it - it will be possible to upload the information. I will post the url later. We will search for the hotels by keywords from gc.com. This list will not be always actuall, the geocaching is not my full time job

:rolleyes:

I am an owner of the TB Hotel, and I will never restrict the TBs (swap one for one). I think that rule is stupid and should only help to increase the owner´s ego, not to help the TBs to move. The only one rule which I follow here is to let the TBs move.

Maybe we should tell apart the TB hotels with that restriction rule (there will be a special category).

March 16, 2005

Yeah, I agree about "Moving" the TB's along! I go caching with family a lot and for the most part whomever "actually" finds the cache first gets first choice on any TB's inside. The other rule we follow when TB's are involved is that we look at the TB's "MISSION"!! and whomever wishes to help it move along with it's mission or is able to do so best gets that bug!

We started a Family TB Race New Year's Eve ( http://home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-flugle )and we put all (7) of our bugs in a TB Hotel. Some of them moved pretty quickly and others were in there quite a while. Who knows why! But it is frustrating to watch a bug so intensely and it not go anywhere!!

I don't know what I could do to help, but if you think I might be able to help in some way, you can email and I'd be glad to try! I definately want my Bed and Breakfast posted on your site when it is time!

2.5k · March 17, 2005

seeing as though my idea is apparently stupid and I only offered a suggestion seeing as though you asked for them, I withdraw it.

Edited March 18, 2005 by fly46

March 18, 2005

N 34° 14.151 W 112° 07.052

Well, we will list it without coordinates, you can get them by checking the gc.com site (it will be linked)

The reason is simple - if the owner will change the coordinates, we won´t be able to get it.

6.5k · March 18, 2005

These examples show that travel bugs hotels are risky places for travel bugs. Future travel bug hotels should not be approved unless they satisfy some rigorous requirements of safety and security to reduce the risk of travel bug losses.

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

Bullspit. :lol: Just because there have been issues with TB Hotels in AZ doesn't mean that is case in the other 49 states. The RDU TB Hotel has been in operation for over two years, has had over 300 visits, and only one incident. It's hidden with permission in the rear lot of the hotel nearest the airport, between the airport and the interstate exit. Cachers of all levels from around the world have visited it. Many locals go back often to keep TBs moving.

Many of the people who visit easy, accessible caches are inexperienced or infrequent geocachers who may pick up the travel bugs, but fail to log them properly or don't move them to another cache. I'd rather move the travel bugs that I have to caches that require a little more effort to get to and are not too close to roads or parking areas. These caches are less likely to be muggled, and the person who claims the travel bug would more likely be an experienced geocacher who would know how to properly log and move the travel bug.

How can you make generalizations about who visits TB Hotels, who handles TBs, and how or why they go missing? Cachers of all levels of experience have visited mine, many of whom make repeat visits to keep TB's moving. I have visited several other hotels myself for the same reasons. I have found and sometimes taken TB's from caches of all kinds of containers, including even finding some that were too large for the container, so they were just left next to it, on the ground or even behind the guardrail. Maybe we should make a rule that only responsible, caring cachers should be allowed to handle TBs? :huh:

The last thing geocaching needs is more rules, oops I mean guidelines. :blink:

March 18, 2005

Well, Bjorn's Travel Bug Timeshare is probably one of the safest (not to mention Roomiest) "Hotels" out there. It's checked daily, has ample parking, is convenient to the airport and is nearly muggle-proof. Except that one day that my neighbor/boss/friend/landlord(at the time)'s autistic 4 year old thought it was his toy chest and stole the log book and pen, leaving the bad and all the bugs...

Anyway, feel free to list it wherever you want.

Bjorn's TB Timeshare

On the aspect that there are really bad Hotels out there, it's true. But there are also good caches that are especially fit for that purpose. I'm not the only person who's found a safe way to make good traveler caches that can be visited on the way to an early morning or evening visit without risk of being "discovered".

I've met a good number of people under my front porch (it's like 6 feet high). It's been a great experience since I really don't get into TBs generally.

8.8k · March 18, 2005

Since this conversation is still going, I'm going to reiterate what Keystone Approver has already said regarding Groundspeak's stand on the subject, and I quote:

You don't need to ask for something that's already there. Pocket queries contain information about travel bugs including the number in each cache. If I'm interested in travel bugs I can filter my PQ results to show just the caches with bugs. Then I can move down that list and see how many bugs are in each cache.

I doubt very, very much that Jeremy will add any sort of information, including a cache attribute, for travel bug hotels. He is not a big fan of the concept

March 18, 2005

I doubt very, very much that Jeremy will add any sort of information, including a cache attribute, for travel bug hotels. He is not a big fan of the concept

That's unfortunate. A lot of other people who play the game like TB hotels and create or use them. Jeremy not liking them isn't going to change the fact of their existence. I guess I should be glad that Jeremy is ok with micros....

An attribute really would be the best way to identify hotels-- you could have a couple of attribute options to it:

TB Hotel: With Rules Without Rules N/A (i.e., not a hotel)

March 19, 2005

Gee, I thought everything was fine the way it was.

March 19, 2005

Well, me and my friend are starting to work on the webpage. I do believe that it will be a loggistic nightmare. We have a list of country and will start to fill the database. But anyone can help us to do it - it will be possible to upload the information. I will post the url later. We will search for the hotels by keywords from gc.com. This list will not be always actuall, the geocaching is not my full time job

If you do a search, you may also wish to include the word 'motel' as in this cache

March 20, 2005

I have a TB motel, but everyone has cleaned it out!!!!

I seeded it w/ four of my own, but nowadays, people just take and don't trade. Even a WG$ would be better than to leave junk.

Travel Bug Hotels Association

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