Commercial Geocaching Member Accounts

[+Renegade Knight]

The titles says it all. Is this something we want to see, see on a case by case basis, or not at all?

[+rusty_tlc]

I vote no commercial accounts. Now the question, how do you police this? Our local mail group had a problem last summer with a guy selling cruises. Eventually the moderator banned the individual, well his mail bot account anyway.

 

What about an automobile manufacturer wants to own Travel Bugs. Well maybe that's a bad example.

[+New England n00b]

What is a commercial account? What repercussions come from such an account?

 

This concept is unknown to me. Go ahead, say it. "n00b!"

[+SerenityNow]

Absolutely not! Can't imagine why the heck we would want them. Darn, we can't even collect for a charity, so why in the world would we want to open up to comercial accounts?????

[+rusty_tlc]

To late, see my original post.

[+SerenityNow]

Hmmm... interesting thought. We hadn't thought of the Jeep account. Well, at least we haven't had any e-mail from them!

[CoyoteRed]

I vote yes to commercial accounts!

 

...as long as I can also have an ignore feature.

[rasntrumpet]

What is a commercial account?  What repercussions come from such an account?

 

This concept is unknown to me.  Go ahead, say it.  "n00b!"

I agree ... what is a commercial account?

 

Garmin has references to Geocaching on its website and obviously wants to sell "stuff" to the geocaching community.

 

Therefore, Garmin is a commercial entity and should be or not be barred:

- From discussing Geocaching

- From having hot links to GC.COM

- etc.

 

My opinion:

- If you bring something to the GPS/Geocacing community, you are OK. (The seller and the commuity both benefit equally - a symbiotic relationship.)

- If you want to sell Geocaches on E-Bay, you're out. (It's a Cash for Cache deal, the only one that wins is the seller.)

[+BadAndy]

My gut reaction was No.

 

After some thought, I'd go along with commercial accounts. They would follow the same rules as the rest of us, including cache placement and swag. I'd also hold them to a strict policy on contact (spam) with members, requiring the member to initiate any contact. Under certain circumstances, such as the jeep contest, some special rules could apply regarding commercial caches.

 

Under these conditions, I believe it could improve and even help preserve the game. The likes of Magellan and Garmin all have plenty at stake in our enjoyment and success in this sport/game. We already have some quasi commercial accounts and there hasn't been any issues. Some changes can be good.

[+LXA_KA_1287]

as long as I don't start seeing caches like

 

My Travelbug Depot Presented by Al's Tire Barn

 

or something like that, lol

[+Renegade Knight]

Mostly I was thinking of the kind that exist to promote their goods and services.

 

There is a difference between a member who couldn't come up with anything better than "The Quilt Shop" when the time to have an account name came and they use to to log caches and play the game, and "The Quilt Shack" making customer GPS covers for your caching pleasure.

[+tirediron]

I would not be in favour of an account used to advertise to other members!

[+New England n00b]

Mostly I was thinking of the kind that exist to promote their goods and services.

 

There is a difference between a member who couldn't come up with anything better than "The Quilt Shop" when the time to have an account name came and they use to to log caches and play the game, and "The Quilt Shack" making customer GPS covers for your caching pleasure.

I'm all for that, so long as those accounts are only allowed to post messages/replies in the Garage Sale forum, and their avatar title is restricted to 'Business Entity". They can read all the other forums they want, but only post in the Garage forum.

 

EDIT: Also, they have a posting flood level set at one hour, so no spamming.

 

That's my two bits, for whatever that's worth (minus inflation).

Edited December 27, 2004 by New England n00b

[+ValleyRat & TillyMouse]

In what form; Popups? Banner Ads.

 

Premium members can opt out of the feature?

 

Too broad a question to answer NO or Yes.

 

It may not be up to us, however. When the forum owner decides to do it, he has that right.

[+briansnat]

Mostly I was thinking of the kind that exist to promote their goods and services.

 

In that case, no.

[CoyoteRed]

I see a lot of "no" answers, yet folks were falling all over themselves to find a little yellow toy Jeep and those were disgustingly commercial.

 

My Travelbug Depot Presented by Al's Tire Barn

What's wrong with caches like that?

 

I would have absolutely no problem with an additional tier to the membership where you pay extra money to be able to place a cache that solicits. For instance, pay a $100 a year for a commercial account and an additional $10 a year per cache.

 

Heck, that's cheap for advertising, but I'd certainly want the ability to ignore caches so I don't have to see a cache I don't want to do.

 

Also, where are the people who think "Jeremy should get filthy rich and the servers have to be paid for somehow?" This is another revenue stream.

[+bigredmed]

The one thing that we learned about the Jeep and the Magellan contests of the past few years, is that there are far more geocachers elsewhere in the world than just in the US and Canada. How would you feel if we got bombed with updates to the forums for a cache contest sponsored by Deutsche Welle and the contest pieces were confined to German speaking Europe?

 

I am sure that the Europeans and other non-North American cachers would prefer to participate in widely advertised games such as the contests above. All the game pieces were in North America, not very courteous of us to talk up the YJTB's and then restrict their dispersal to the point where they had to be smuggled into Europe by geocachers who found them and sent them on.

 

One condition of all marketing on this site from now on should be that its global or not allowed.

 

If the commercial accounts were held to a global or nothing standard, and they stuck to it, I would support these accounts (assuming the previously mentioned spam protection was in place.)

[+wimseyguy]

I'm all for jeremy getting filthy rich and upgrading the servers and that stuff all the time so we don't get any more 'server too busy' error messages.

I'm even OK with the Jeep TB activity.

What I wouldn't want to see is activity in the forums from these commercial accounts (unless they are flagged as such, perhaps by an uneditable forum title).

I can just see threads that up til now were discussions among active cachers on -best mapping software, should I get a new 60cs or the top of the line maggie, can anyone recommend a good motel in JAX for GW3 etc. becoming the next advertising campaign venues for those vendors who would benefit from such posts.

Don't think it can't happen. Check out the recent camera phone campaigns with fake tourists in NYC or even buzzagent to see the latest ways that marketers are trying to manipulate your selections.

[+carleenp]

If Groundspeak wants to OK a few commercial accounts, then that doesn't bother me. I would not want to see numerous commercial accounts though.

[+fly46]

What about an automobile manufacturer wants to own Travel Bugs. Well maybe that's a bad example.

Someone else can Markwell this for me, but Keystone Approver told me once that a travel bug is different from a cache, so they can be commercial or solicit all they want.

[rebapac]

I can't see what all the hulla ballu ia all about. Companies advertise their products and services on T.V. and we don't run out an purchase all of them. If a cache asks you to come see the antique store down the street all you have to do is go on by and don't stop.

Advertising in the forums is a different story, but still the same principle applies. If you don't want to be influenced by advertising, don't participate in the forum. Advertising requires two things. You must have a story to tell and you must have an audiance. If either one of those is missing your advertising is ineffective. All we have to do is deny the advertiser his audiance in the forums if that is what you want to do. On the other hand, you can read the ads and it opens up another resource to you.

[+New England n00b]

The one thing that we learned about the Jeep and the Magellan contests of the past few years, is that there are far more geocachers elsewhere in the world than just in the US and Canada.  How would you feel if we got bombed with updates to the forums for a cache contest sponsored by Deutsche Welle and the contest pieces were confined to German speaking Europe? 

 

I am sure that the Europeans and other non-North American cachers would prefer to participate in widely advertised games such as the contests above.  All the game pieces were in North America, not very courteous of us to talk up the YJTB's and then restrict their dispersal to the point where they had to be smuggled into Europe by geocachers who found them and sent them on. 

 

One condition of all marketing on this site from now on should be that its global or not allowed.

 

If the commercial accounts were held to a global or nothing standard, and they stuck to it, I would support these accounts (assuming the previously mentioned spam protection was in place.)

They would if they could. Why do you think so many company run contests are limited to the US? There are not enough lawyers on the planet to ensure that a contest is legal in every country, state/province, county, city, etc. Yet gc.com has to (and has the right to) make some extra dough on the side. Come up with a winning solution and they will be beating a path to your door. Hopefully they aren't bushwhacking, though...

Edited December 27, 2004 by New England n00b

[+briansnat]

I see a lot of "no" answers, yet folks were falling all over themselves to find a little yellow toy Jeep and those were disgustingly commercial

Not this person, but I don't see the comparison. GC.COM entered into, what I assume was, a mutually beneficial agreement with JEEP to distrubute the bugs.

 

I could choose whether or not I wanted to participate in the contest, or to ignore it and the associated YJTB's (which I basically did). That's different from an account that will largely be used to spam the forums. One of the things I really like about the forums here is the lack of spam found in many other forums.

 

One condition of all marketing on this site from now on should be that its global or not allowed.

 

If they were allowed, why should someone be forced to (and most likely pay to) market someplace that they don't want to? If JEEP chose not to market their product outside NA, that's their choice. I don't see why the Albanian Flag Corp should be forced to market Albanian flags in Nigeria, or why Hormel should be forced to market their canned pork product in Israel and Iran.

[+Ltljon]

 

I am sure that the Europeans and other non-North American cachers would prefer to participate in widely advertised games such as the contests above. All the game pieces were in North America, not very courteous of us to talk up the YJTB's and then restrict their dispersal to the point where they had to be smuggled into Europe by geocachers who found them and sent them on.

 

One condition of all marketing on this site from now on should be that its global or not allowed.

 

Anyone's welcome to participate if they're in the country. It's not any different than "talking up" a cache in your area that's of course not easily accessable to everyone in the world.

 

There's always options.

[+bigredmed]

Talking up a cache in a global forum gets your thread closed or moved to the appropriate regional forum. If the same policy were held to NO MATTER WHAT, then commercial accounts would be OK if identified as such.

 

A contest for the US would be only allowed in the US forums, and one for NZ would be in the appropriate regional forum. Advertizing it in one of the global forums (like this one) would not be OK.

[+JohnnyVegas]

The titles says it all. Is this something we want to see, see on a case by case basis, or not at all?

I read the title

"Terracachers, the world is only the beginning"

I do not see anything in the title that would suggest a commercial site.

I read through the site and I did not see anything regarding a fee to place a cache.

I did not see anything about a fee to use the site.

 

So how would this be a commercail site? As far as I can see it is not any more commercial than geocaching.com and if anything it is less commercial than geocaching.com.

 

It appears that they want to allow local cachers to decides what types of caches they want in their area, I have no problem with that. If anything maybe having local control would take care of the problems regarding getting Virtual caches approved, getting Locationless caches approved and even getting traveling cache approved. If they want to start their on website to list caches types they want to see, that fine, besides geocaching.com can not do much to stop them, I believe geocahing is trade marked by Groundspeak so Groundspeak may be able to stop them from using the term, but that would take a great deal on money and why make a bunch of attournies rich.

[+carleenp]

I thought this topic was about the title of the thread: Commercial member accounts. I never associated it as being about commercial web sites or other sites?

 

Did I miss something?????

[+Today's Cacher]

Where do we fall in the mix?

[+bigredmed]

Where do we fall in the mix?

Derived from geocaching, by geocachers, with a global access (the website). You post articles of general interest. You would be fine and in the case of other companies that wanted to do the same, they would also be fine from my POV.

 

I feel uncomfortable about global forums being used to promote regional games/businesses. If TC went in this direction without using the appropriate regional forum(s), you would be out of line.

Edited December 27, 2004 by bigredmed

[+Renegade Knight]

...So how would this be a commercail site? As far as I can see it is not any more commercial than geocaching.com and if anything it is less commercial than geocaching.com....

That's not quite what I was basing the question on, but for the sake of discussion.

If Terracachers started an account to discuss events and issues in the forums, and the accounts sole purpose was to do that, that's the type of "commercial member account" that we are discussion.

 

Reading your post again, I think that's the angle you took.

[+bigredmed]

...So how would this be a commercail site? As far as I can see it is not any more commercial than geocaching.com and if anything it is less commercial than geocaching.com....

That's not quite what I was basing the question on, but for the sake of discussion.

If Terracachers started an account to discuss events and issues in the forums, and the accounts sole purpose was to do that, that's the type of "commercial member account" that we are discussion.

 

Reading your post again, I think that's the angle you took.

If Terracachers wanted to set up an account that would allow for discussion of issues of general interest between cachers and would allow for better coordination between the two sites, then its a go from my perspective.

[CoyoteRed]

That's different from an account that will largely be used to spam the forums.

Sorry. I must have missed the part where there would be a change in the forum policies and I'm too tired to go back and look.

 

I was just refering to the ability to place a cache that is now considered as commercial. My bad.

 

While I know Jeremy has previously entered into agreements with other companies, I was thinking of a generic, open license to place a cache that would advertise "Joe's Mufflers." I can see this as a benefit because it would certainly behove the company to ensure the cache is maintained properly. Businesses would know the cache is a direct reflection on them.

 

No, I wouldn't like to see the forums spammed with commercial advertisments.

[+BadAndy]

The more I think about it, the less I dislike the idea. I would enjoy a radioshack sponsored theme cache full of fresh AA's, or a starbucks 2fer cache.

[+sept1c_tank]

The more I think about it, the less I dislike the idea. 

Your thought process is amusing.

 

I would enjoy a radioshack sponsored theme cache full of fresh AA's, or a starbucks 2fer cache.

 

To answer the OP, I think approval of commercial accounts and their activities should be handled case by case.

[+SwampGoat]

Perhaps it could be a policy similar to "no solicitation" policies in many workplaces. Businesses cannot solicit employees for their business. However, they if they offer employees some kind of benefit exclusive to being an employee, the company will allow them in (e.g. "ABC Company employees get 30 extra free minutes on XYZ Wireless service plans...stop by the breakroom today and talk to the reps").

 

What if a hotel chain offered a special discount/package for geocachers that included printouts of the nearest caches. The hotels themselves could be the subject of a reverse geocache, and FTF's could get a free night. I know there are a bunch of details which I haven't considered, but you get the idea.

 

That's what I've been thinking about in terms of commercialism--needs to benefit geocachers, the host site, and of course the sponsor.

[+Team J&J]

Commercial geocaches? Sure! Bring 'em on! I'm sure there are companies out there that will create wonderful caches, and others that will creat awful ones (with just advertising literature, etc.). However, I would like to see a <biz> tag on their cache page and in all notification emails sent out with their cache listed. I may take off early to find a member's new cache, but I don't necessarily want to do that for K-mart's new cache!

 

One thing (among many) to think about is cache events. Usually these regional events are open to everyone...but can you imagine having the 2005 MeetnGreet at Friendly Squirrel Park, only to have Intel, Jo Anns Fabrics, and Mike & the Madman from KCBT 103.5 descend upon your little get together?

[+JohnnyVegas]

I thought this topic was about the title of the thread: Commercial member accounts. I never associated it as being about commercial web sites or other sites?

 

Did I miss something?????

I read to much of RKs post, I thought the post was in refferance to the link at the bottom of the post. No wonder I spent two hours reading the terracahers web site Trying to figure out the connectiion, I just have to drink more coffee I guess.