As In Life Trying To Help Cuts Your Own Throat.

[+5¢]

So I try to help out and get my own throat cut. I ask a simple question....what would it take each member and I will clarify each paying member to help this site out with the weekend slowdown? I get treated like crap by a moderator to my surpise. I love this game / sport / hobby and want to do all I can to help out. What do I get...... a moderator being a smart alec and others skirting the issue. I say this and only this....... if you like this thing called geocaching and want to help out then lets do it. I ask this and only this...... If I want to help out to fix the problem everyone know exist why do I get treated like crap for doing it? You all don't know me. For all you know I could be a bum or I could be a multi billionaire. I could also be an in between. Like I believe most of us paying members are. I think most of us would pony up a few more dollars to make things right if we had to. We would do all we could to help out. THis is what makes me mad about the forums. A person asks a legitamate question and gets the lungs kicked out of him or her. A person make a post about something that has no reason to even be on the site and they make an off topic forum. What do you all want an off topic forum or the ability to log your stinking finds?

 

What really ticks me off is a moderator who finds the need to suspend my ability of posting on this site to make smart alec posts to a very serious post that would only help the site and sport itself.

[+sept1c_tank]

Got cheese?

[+Fireman78]

I think the site runs very well considering the number of users and the HUGE number of pics posted to it

Edited September 13, 2004 by Fireman78

[+planetrobert]

Would you rather have been ignored? or gotten the responce you did? You were NOT going to get the answer you asked for.

 

Jeremy in numerous threads has stated that financial questions are not something that is shared.

 

I too would like the site to get better, but it takes time, money isnt always the answer, sometimes it is time and work that solves the problem.

 

I too am curious about the $$ matters here but know better than to ask.

 

If I were you, I would drop the subject before you incure somebody's wrath.

[+carleenp]

I don't think there is a clear answer to your question. Perhaps Groundspeak will consider increasing membership costs because it is a money issue. Perhaps it is not a money issue and instead a work and time issue and they will keep working on it. Why raise membership fees if it won't make a difference and could deter people from being members because of the cost? My guess is it is not as simple as a money issue.

 

Anyway, my impression is that the site tends to run pretty well and while it has slow downs or down times, it is manageable. The caches get logged, they get listed, life goes on. Plus, I have found the site to be running quite well recently. I have seen plenty of posts from Jeremy addressing the issue, which leads me to believe it is not a cost issue and it is being worked on. Regardless, it is a game/hobby/RASH or whatever you want to call it. Waiting an hour or a day to log or get a cache listed won't kill anyone.

 

I just don't see the reason for the angst. But then I do admit that I rarely see reason for angst.

Edited September 13, 2004 by carleenp

[+cache_us_if_you_can]

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

I ask a simple question....what would it take each member and I will clarify each paying member to help this site out with the weekend slowdown?

I believe you got your answer HERE.

 

Just a side note: I don't mind if I have to wait until a weekday to log my finds. It's not that big of a deal. TPTB are doing a great job with what they have to work with.

[+5¢]

I guess I am dumb and or smart however you want to look at it. I see things as Jeremy doesn't sit at home with a group of moderators and push a button each time someone signs on. If I and other members could give 5 or 10 dollars to help upgrade the machines that the site uses to let people log caches these problems would not exist.

[uperdooper]

I don't think there is a clear answer to your question. Perhaps Groundspeak will consider increasing membership costs because it is a money issue. Perhaps it is not a money issue and instead a work and time issue and they will keep working on it. Why raise membership fees if it won't make a difference and could deter people from being members because of the cost? My guess is it is not as simple as a money issue.

 

Anyway, my impression is that the site tends to run pretty well and while it has slow downs or down times, it is manageable. The caches get logged, they get listed, life goes on. Plus, I have found the site to be running quite well recently. I have seen plenty of posts from Jeremy addressing the issue, which leads me to believe it is not a cost issue and it is being worked on. Regardless, it is a game/hobby/RASH or whatever you want to call it. Waiting an hour or a day to log or get a cache listed won't kill anyone.

 

I just don't see the reason for the angst. But then I do admit that I rarely see reason for angst.

now you've done it! carleenp has angst.

 

i pretty much agree with her. i haven't had a problem logging anything on the weekends in a while.

[+southdeltan]

I guess I am dumb and or smart however you want to look at it. I see things as Jeremy doesn't sit at home with a group of moderators and push a button each time someone signs on. If I and other members could give 5 or 10 dollars to help upgrade the machines that the site uses to let people log caches these problems would not exist.

I think the answer to the question is that MONEY DOES NOT SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS.

 

The admin/owners of the website have said REPEATEDLY that throwing hardware at the problems won't necessarily solve them.

 

Most of the problems come from programming limitations and they are working to improve their DB programming so things work more smoothly.

 

southdeltan

[Jeremy]

Odd series of posts. The site has been running quite well this weekend as it was last weekend. The new database server is on backorder but when it arrives it will undoubtedly help with the continuing growth.

[Cholo]

Jake and Elwood, settle down. You're just p.o.'d because a mod was a little short with you. They're human like everyone else in here. They may have just come from another thread where they had to take the usual guff. I can't imagine having to read all these threads.

 

As for problems with logging caches, that's been discussed many times. When the people here say that it isn't necessarily about money, believe them. Do some searching in the GC.com Web Site forum. There's a lot of tech jargon there dealing with these problems. It tends to bore me, but you might find some answers. The least it can do is make you better informed when asking a question.

[+crash331]

Sure money will fix the problems.

 

Money = more machines

Money = more employees

Money = more resources

 

 

Why do all of you got to hate on this guy? I found the original thread pretty disrespectful. Instead of answering the question with a definite answer or a simple "I can't divulge that kind of financial information", symantics had to be argued.

 

And the whole thing about asking what time it is is a load. Who in their right mind (who isn't a total jerk) answers YES when someone asks "Do you know what time it is"

 

 

I'm sure symantics can be argued with 90% of all threads posted, but we all use a little common sense and realize what information is being requested and do our best to meet that need. Why make it hard on everyone else?

[+planetrobert]

Who in their right mind (who isn't a total jerk) answers YES when someone asks "Do you know what time it is"

Me

[+crash331]

Well if I passed you on the street and you told me that, I would walk away thinking what an ---hole you were. I might even tell you, depending on how big a hurry I was in.

Edited September 13, 2004 by crash331

[+cache_us_if_you_can]

Who in their right mind (who isn't a total jerk) answers YES when someone asks "Do you know what time it is"

Me

I do that to

[+crash331]

Are you all a bunch of yanks who curse at someone for crossing your line of sight? Must be a northern thing. Here in the south, we try our best not to be jerks.

[+cache_us_if_you_can]

Well if I passed you on the street and you told me that, I would walk away thinking what an ---hole you were. I might even tell you, depending on how big a hurry I was in.

And I'm sure that I'd just smile and nod.

[+crash331]

Hey man, whatever floats your boat. If it makes you happy to make a total stranger feel bad, then go for it. I am just saying I like to try to be nice to almost everyone I can. Who knows, you might meet them later on and actually be friends with them. Or that person might give you some kind of oppurtunity in the future (well, not if you treat them as you described).

 

Why be ornery to everyone. Anyway, I am getting off on a tangent here.

 

And in response to ralanns new thread, I mean no disrespect to the mods nor Jeremy nor any other users. I am thankful for all their help and for having such a nice community. It's just a discussion, no need to take it personal.

 

 

hypothetical here: I go into a store and sit a drink on the counter. I say "How much is this". Well, the clerk can do the nice thing and say 79 cents, or he can be a jerk and say 20 oz. Well, if he says that then I will probably leave without a drink and I will probably never stop there for drinks or gas again. He could have been nice and got lots of business. Instead, he's got a drink sitting at the counter with no customer.

 

 

Time for bed.

 

P.S. I just wanna say.. I LOVE YOU ALL. Nite nite. Don't let the bed bugs bite.

Edited September 13, 2004 by crash331

[+Robespierre]

Let me just respond to the thread topic.

-I think, this time, perhaps you were sincere...I'm giving you a break, here! I mean, maybe your intentions really were altruistic. If so, then go back and read what you wrote. I remember reading the topic, reading the thread, and then telling myself that you were just being your usual self, and refusing to get involved in it. The way you worded it, it didn't sound so innocent. Perhaps there is something to learn?

 

-And, yes, sometimes we get stomped on when we're trying to do well. It is a sad part of life. I knew people would react badly to how you spoke. Maybe that was just habit, and you intended good. Now, I need to go back to that thread and see just how badly you were treated.

 

edit: After my morning exercises, I got back and read the other thread which I had avoided, and I must offer my apologies to the krn dude. I don't know what I even saw in the OP that warned me off of it. Benign enough. Why you got the runaround? I'm guessing that TPTB just really don't want to give out that information.

Edited September 13, 2004 by Robespierre

[+RichardMoore]

Who in their right mind (who isn't a total jerk) answers YES when someone asks "Do you know what time it is"

Me

I do that to

Ditto.

[+RichardMoore]

Are you all a bunch of yanks who curse at someone for crossing your line of sight? Must be a northern thing. Here in the south, we try our best not to be jerks.

Keep trying.

[+nfa]

Hi,

 

I don't know, nor do I want/need to know, about the financials of gc.com. I pay my membership dues because I wish to support the geocaching, and this particular geocaching web-service. If the dues were more each year, would I pay, probably, but I don't think that is the answer; higher dues would probably result in fewer members over time.

 

My feeling is that over time more gc.com users will become gc.com members, because it is the smart thing to do for a hobby/sport you enjoy.

 

I feel that higher membership fees would be a divisive force among the users of gc.com, and that is not good for geocaching in the long run.

 

I find the gc.com website generally working well enough for my needs...in crunch times, when the servers are overworked, I give it a couple of hours and then check back in...this has always worked.

 

nfa

[+JMBella]

Are you all a bunch of yanks who curse at someone for crossing your line of sight?

 

Yes.

[Pantalaimon]

My feeling is that over time more gc.com users will become gc.com members, because it is the smart thing to do for a hobby/sport you enjoy.

If so inclined, could you elaborate on this point?

 

My feeling is that over time, a successful competitive site for geocaching would more beneficial for the RASH.

[+CompuCash]

Who in their right mind (who isn't a total jerk) answers YES when someone asks "Do you know what time it is"

Me

I do that to

and so do I -

[+nfa]

My feeling is that over time more gc.com users will become gc.com members, because it is the smart thing to do for a hobby/sport you enjoy.

If so inclined, could you elaborate on this point?

 

My feeling is that over time, a successful competitive site for geocaching would more beneficial for the RASH.

Hi,

 

I feel that as geocaching matures a little (remember it is only 4 years old and still defining itself) people will realize that paying 8 cents a day (or maybe by then it will have skyrocketed to 10 cents per day) makes sense to support a fun and healthy activity.

 

Free rides are great, and I think that aspects of geocaching should always be available for free, but I also hope that as time goes by more and more of the tricky (and expensive) features and extras on gc.com (beyond listing and accessing listings, which should always be free) are restricted to paying members.

 

Public radio is free in a sense, in that anyone can tune in and listen, and it should always remain that way (like geocaching). I am a member of public radio for much the same reason I am a member of gc.com; I feel it is worthwhile to support...for myself, for those to come, and for those too cheap to pay.

 

nfa

[+cachew nut]

Here in the south, we try our best not to be jerks.

Here we buy a watch or just look at the GPSr clock.

[+RichardMoore]

..., and for those too cheap to pay. 

 

nfa

I was right with you until this part.

When I started in this activity I was living paycheck to paycheck, sometimes not quite making it to the next check. My GPSr was a birthday gift from my sister, I accessed the site from the library, my trade goods were things that I had around the apartment, and most of the caches that I found were within a few miles from home or in an area that I was going to anyway. I was glad that the listing service was free.

When I got a better job and had the ability to do so, I became a paying member.

Would I be willing to pay $10 more a year to have the site run faster on the weekend? No.

Edited September 13, 2004 by RichardMoore

[+CompuCash]

It is not a matter of being a jerk or intentionally trying to offend.

 

It is a matter of being literal to the questioner. Some of us - especially the computer inclined I think (who MUST think literally) do it out of trying to be funny and to offer a different perspective and to let people know what they are really asking for. I had to grin at the "how much is this - 20 oz" as I had not thought of that one. When I say 'yes' to 'do you have the time?' it is with a tone of expectancey - waiting for the obvious next question 'what is it, or can I have it" and with a grin and smile in my voice. I was once asked by a programming student (mine), 'do you have a watch' (me) 'yes" - 'do you have it with you - yes - 'do you know the time? - {I look} yes - student starting to show frustration - 'do you have the time?' - 'yes' {with a little force for effect' - student finally - will you tell me the time? - time is xxx. Student with relief laughts at the exchange and I saw the light come on in his face.

 

Now CO did answer the original question - you asked if he knew and he answered yes. It was a little curt and without looking I don't recall seeing a smiley behind it. But at that point it was obvios to me (and I believe the reading crowd here) that he did not intend to answer your real question by the second exchange. I think he made that pretty plain. He could have been a littel more open with that infomation but how was he going to do that without making you as angry (or worse) than he did with his simple answer?

 

I am quite sure that he did not do it to make you angry - and I believe your anger is/was misplaced here. Your intention was very good and might even be valid. But that is no reason to go off and blast him - and is certainly counter productive. Tho it sure did get a round of people responding - that was good - and intertaining too.

 

As was stated, throwing money and hardware at this kind of problem is not always the best answer - and often not even productive. He has already stated at least two problems, of which there are likely many more - weekend rush of users and the constant digging by the web scanners, spiders, crawlers, or whatever. They have no control of these factors. More servers are likely not going to help.

 

OK - the bottom line hereis ' what is! ' -- the site sorta sucks during peak times on week ends - I was completley locked out for an hour or so withthat great little error dump we get -- so I did my customary "aww sh*t" went and upload yesterdays PQ to GSAK - cleaned out my folder with the found cache sheets, got my note book, and got ready to do the logging I needed - tried again - another " AS! " - came here and read some of the forum stuff - hit a link to a cache page and bingo it came up - so I jumped on my page and it came up too - did my logging etc. and carried on.

 

So what's the big deal? Are we so impatient that we can't wait our turn to get on to this site? Hey - I know one way to fix the problem - how do you like THIS idea -

 

say this site can comfortably handle 100 people with a 20% overflow. You can be logged on for no more than 60 min at a time -- if you are on you get a notice to save/close things to protect the data and log back on. So when we hit the saftey limit 100+overflow you get a notice that you are # 27 in line and you will be logged on automatically and sent a notice when 27 other poeple log off or get kicked off. You can 'take a number' or come back later. That solves the problem and no one will ever get an error or super slow operation!

 

I have been on such sites - in some ways it sucks! I am quite sure 99% of you never even bother to log off - you start your systems and open a browser window and just do what you have to do. I do the same. Jeremy might have some stats on what that does or does not do the the system resources. BUT YOU GOTTA AGREE IT SURE FIXES THE PROBLEM THAT SO MANY ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT. HUH?

 

I am equally sure that just about all of you are screaming bloody murder " NO WAY!" and maybe even threatening to leave if that every happens. My answer to that is "You can't have it both ways!"

 

They might be able to put some kind of limit/restriction on non-paid members so that we paid members get a little priority on the system. This is supposed to be a free site and I don't think that is a good answer either - BUT!

 

I would not want to see this happen either. But, you want a fix - and that would definitely fix the problem as YOU see it..

 

So you see - there are many solution to a problem - many may/not be the solution you want. You know that old saying - Be careful what you ask for - you might get it"?

 

==========

 

OK - I had my say - sorry for taking so long to do so -

 

[+as77]

Public radio is free in a sense, in that anyone can tune in and listen, and it should always remain that way (like geocaching). I am a member of public radio for much the same reason I am a member of gc.com; I feel it is worthwhile to support...for myself, for those to come, and for those too cheap to pay.

There is a fundamental difference, though. Public radio is a not-for-profit organization that is supported by donations. In contrast, geocaching.com is maintained by Groundspeak, Inc, which is a company, making profit from the fees, the advertising income and from selling of geocaching-related goods. When you are paying your membership fee, you are not donating; you are paying a fee for the member-only services. The fact that the listings are free to access is not a charitable act by them; it's part of their business model.

[+as77]

I was once asked by a programming student (mine), 'do you have a watch' (me) 'yes" - 'do you have it with you - yes - 'do you know the time? - {I look} yes - student starting to show frustration - 'do you have the time?' - 'yes' {with a little force for effect' - student finally - will you tell me the time? - time is xxx.

When he asked 'will you tell me the time?', why didn't you answer 'yes, if you ask me' and wait for the next question? The only question that should result in you telling him the time is 'what is the time?'

 

I don't think the people on the forum need a lesson in formal logics before getting an answer to their questions. In my opinion, CO Admin didn't contribute to this site being a friendly site with his answer to krn.

[+TotemLake]

I was going to avoid getting in this, but I just had to:

 

First:

Sure money will fix the problems. 

 

Money = more machines

Money = more employees

Money = more resources

 

Look around you, folks are being laid off because companies found out they don't need to spend all that to get all that. You have to be smart and identify the problem first (which has been done) and determine what is needed to fix the problem (which has been done), and then set about to fixing it (which is in progress).

 

Second:

Instead of answering the question with a definite answer or a simple "I can't divulge that kind of financial information", symantics had to be argued.

This has been said so many times it's a broken record. You should try reading this forum to get a feel for what's happening before asking repeat questions like this. By the start of the threads and the continuing angst, it is obvious this hasn't been done.

 

Third:

And the whole thing about asking what time it is is a load.  Who in their right mind (who isn't a total jerk) answers YES when someone asks "Do you know what time it is"

 

Although you and a couple others may have differing opinions, I am not a jerk, but lI do like using that as a joke to mess with my friends. But know this, the usage of that example was an analogy... something you seemed to have missed.

[+CompuCash]

Third:

QUOTE

 

And the whole thing about asking what time it is is a load.  Who in their right mind (who isn't a total jerk) answers YES when someone asks "Do you know what time it is"

 

Although you and a couple others may have differing opinions, I am not a jerk, but lI do like using that as a joke to mess with my friends. But know this, the usage of that example was an analogy... something you seemed to have missed.

 

thank you!

[+TotemLake]

Well if I passed you on the street and you told me that, I would walk away thinking what an ---hole you were. I might even tell you, depending on how big a hurry I was in.

and...

 

Are you all a bunch of yanks who curse at someone for crossing your line of sight? Must be a northern thing. Here in the south, we try our best not to be jerks.

 

Did anybody catch the oxymoron in these two statements. Let's not mention this turned into an attack rather than a debate of the situation.

[+Mopar]

Well if I passed you on the street and you told me that, I would walk away thinking what an ---hole you were.  I might even tell you, depending on how big a hurry I was in.

and...

 

Are you all a bunch of yanks who curse at someone for crossing your line of sight? Must be a northern thing. Here in the south, we try our best not to be jerks.

 

Did anybody catch the oxymoron in these two statements.

Yup.

[+nfa]

Let's not mention this turned into an attack rather than a debate of the situation.

Which you just did...

Edited September 13, 2004 by NFA

[evilcacher]

June 3 by krn187 (129 found)

how about we stick you in the cache

[view this log on a separate page]

 

June 3 by krn187 (129 found)

hey im cool i screw up the games of the travel bugs. find a new hobby other than geocaching. if my bugs end up in your cache when i set them out i'm gonna start emailing people about how you are impeding on their progress because you get kicks out of it. what percentage of geocachers do you think have a boat? how many of them are going to go where this cache is and rescue them?

krn187

i'll make one trip if i have to and then it will be the last. this is crap like your cache idea.

 

I.T.B.P.

 

Maybe the moderator has been reading your log enteries there KRN187

 

evilcacher

[+TotemLake]

Let's not mention this turned into an attack rather than a debate of the situation.

Which you just did...

To be honest, crash331 did try to play nice in a later post.

 

The point I was really trying to make was in one breath, people try to be the stand up guy, but when the arguement doesn't go their way, they lower themselves to the very level they were debating against. Credibility is lost when this happens.

[+carleenp]

If I was a moderator, I would close this thread considering how it has degraded into further personal attacks. Fortunately I am not a moderator and don't have to deal with such a headache. I have the luxury of chosing to ignore the thread in the future to avoid angst.

 

Life is good!

 

Edit: TotemLake, I am not suggesting that you were making any attacks, my post just happened to fall right under yours because we were posting at the same time.

Edited September 13, 2004 by carleenp

[Jeremy]

Weird. No one pointed out that the site is running rather fast. Too much bickering and not enough geocaching perhaps.

[+nfa]

I find the gc.com website generally working well enough for my needs...in crunch times, when the servers are overworked, I give it a couple of hours and then check back in...this has always worked.

Hi Jeremy,

 

I did mention it, in this thread, and in another one elsewhere in the forums. I also pointed out that in general, I tend to survive a 30 second wait, or having to check in later.

 

I just found the name-calling and logic posturing too fun to pass up...bored now...

 

nfa

Edited September 13, 2004 by NFA

[+JMBella]

Weird. No one pointed out that the site is running rather fast. Too much bickering and not enough geocaching perhaps.

You're right J, I logged quite a finds and submitted a new cache this weekend (which was approved within minutes I might add) with little or no problem at all.

[+as77]

Weird. No one pointed out that the site is running rather fast. Too much bickering and not enough geocaching perhaps.

Maybe because that is not the subject of this thread?

[Jeremy]

what would it take each member and I will clarify each paying member to help this site out with the weekend slowdown?

 

Reading about the first post indicates that it is about the weekend slowdowns. Perhaps users should read the first post to help get this thread get back on topic.

[+nfa]

naps for everyone!

[+bigredmed]

Back to your post topic.

 

I have read several replies in other threads that would discourage me from trying to support a raise in membership fees to acquire new bandwidth.

 

There are people who feel that the membership fee is too high now. There are people who feel that their expense in putting together geocaches should be figured into their support of the site.

 

I doubt you would get far with this approach.

 

As for the response of CO-Admin, he was (IMHO) being inappropriate last night. Unfortunately, this is not a democracy, and the opinions of those who agree that he was out of line and 50 cents will get you a newspaper and not much else.

[+TotemLake]

Weird. No one pointed out that the site is running rather fast. Too much bickering and not enough geocaching perhaps.

I think you guys are doing an awesome job. I feel the folks that do most of the complaining are part of what I call the microwave generation. They can't stand to wait and when they want it, they want it now.

 

Fwiw, in recent weeks, the site is doing much better than it has been for months before that. Even though there has been some slowdowns and accessibility problems, I see each being met with tweaks towards the better as is necessary with anything new that has been implemented.

 

Edit: TotemLake, I am not suggesting that you were making any attacks, my post just happened to fall right under yours because we were posting at the same time. 

 

Your post was not percieved to be that, but thanks for saying what you did.

Edited September 13, 2004 by TotemLake

[+as77]

what would it take each member and I will clarify each paying member to help this site out with the weekend slowdown?

 

Reading about the first post indicates that it is about the weekend slowdowns. Perhaps users should read the first post to help get this thread get back on topic.

I DID read it and established that the subject of this thread is how the poster got treated in another thread where he asked a question.

[+crash331]

Hey look, a horse! Wait, he's already dead...

 

 

Ah, hell...grab that stick..let's beat him!

[+Nero]

I would have to say that the site has been running much better, i still notice slow down last couple of weekends, but at least it does load.

 

as for forum modrators, i have a personal beef with one in particular who i think was being a bit heavy handed, but ive been around computers and online long enough (bbs' way before fido and internet and such), and ive learned not to take anything online too serious.

 

life goes on. enjoy it while you can, go cache!