What Should I Do...

August 30, 2004

I think a cache in my area is on private property and it is not mentioned in the description. I posted a note on the cache page about my concerns. How or should I report it to Geocaching.com?

1.6k · August 30, 2004

Personally, I think I would have e-mailed the cache owner directly with my concerns before making any kind of public noise about it.

The property may be owned by the placer, or someone the placer knows, or the placer may have gotten permission from the owner.

Even if not, direct e-mail would clear up the issue before any assumptions or accusations are made.

Might not be the right answer, but it is what I would do.

Sissy

August 30, 2004

All that may be true, but it needs to be stated on the cache page. Especially when you are walking around on property that has a house/home back in the woods that you can't see from any road.

24.7k · August 30, 2004

I think a cache in my area is on private property and it is not mentioned in the description. I posted a note on the cache page about my concerns. How or should I report it to Geocaching.com?

If you absolutly have to say something then email the owner. There is nothing to report to GC.com unless the property owner came out and asked you what you were doing and when you explained they told you in no uncertain terms that they don't want the cache on their property. Then when you pulled the cache you could email the owner your experience, email GC.com, and hang on to the cache until the owner can pick it up.

In other words there is no problem with a cache until proven otherwise. I can tell you that in my case I won't be listing the permission status unless I feel the need. But then it's my cache listing and my choice.

When I list a cache I check a box that among other things means "I have obtained adequate permission" End of story. Adding "This cache has permission" might make you feel more comfortable seeking it but it doesn't provide any better permission.

August 30, 2004

All that may be true, but it needs to be stated on the cache page. Especially when you are walking around on property that has a house/home back in the woods that you can't see from any road.

I agree. I've done quite a few caches on private property. A couple of them were on the front porch, one at a mailbox, and three in the woods with no house in sight. I would want to be informed any time that the cache is on private property. It makes it so that I know that the cache is ok to be there so I don't go off wandering around in someone's yard looking under their porch when I actually got a coordinate off when it got entered into my GPS or posted on the web page.

It's not hard for the hider to post that it is placed on private property with permission. If it's a questionable area then the hider should state that it's on public property, surrounded by private property, and that the only legal approach is from the north (for example).

I enjoy trying to figure out HOW to get to a cache site - that's half the battle, especially if you're from out of town. I don't want to get halfway there to find out that I've bushwacked 100 yards and popped out in front of someone's swimming pool or something.

If the cache is on or very near to private property then it should be in the description.

August 30, 2004

When I list a cache I check a box that among other things means "I have obtained adequate permission" End of story. Adding "This cache has permission" might make you feel more comfortable seeking it but it doesn't provide any better permission.

True. I think it also deals with your caching history. I would be more apt to hunt for a cache that is questionable when someone with 644 finds hid it vs. someone with 10 finds. I know that THEY know what's going on - in other words I think I can trust them a little more. Probably isn't the smarted way of determining trust but that's what I do.

Just because someone checked the little box doesn't mean that they took the time to read it and didn't actually hide the cache in their neighbor's yard, 50' from the RR tracks. :lol:

August 30, 2004

When I list a cache I check a box that among other things means "I have obtained adequate permission" End of story. Adding "This cache has permission" might make you feel more comfortable seeking it but it doesn't provide any better permission.

Actually, you checking a box about adequate permission is useless to any cacher that gets caught of private property without permission. Your checking a box has absolutely ZERO legal standing. Any cache on private property should be marked as such on the cache page. Especially if there are "No Trespassing" signs at one end of the property.

August 30, 2004

In other words there is no problem with a cache until proven otherwise.

I just read this again. WOW, that is one seriously ignorant statement. So there is no problem until someone gets arrested or shot???

Do you know that it is quite legal to shoot someone for criminal mischief on private property at night in Texas? Several cachers have hit this cache at night, including myself and my wife.

Think before you post.

Edited August 30, 2004 by Texasbagman

August 30, 2004

Texasbagman,

We have not met YET, but since we live in the same area of Houston, we probably will at some point. You came on these boards and asked for advice about a situation. Sissy gave you her opinion/advice, which you asked for, and then you start disputing her advice. I do not understand these actions. You asked, she answered, you argue. Why did you ask?

If you have a question about a cache in Texas, and prefer to question it in public, ask it here on the Texas Geocaching association site.

I know many of the cachers in the greater Houston area, and feel safe in saying that "IF" the cache is on private property, the cache owner probably received permission to place it or was/is unaware of the situation. In either case a private e-mail to the cache owner is "usually" how these kinds of "things" are handled. If a satisfactory reply/response is not received, then you may want to contact 9key or Prime Approver (the two Texas approvers) and question the placement of this cache.

August 30, 2004

Did you bother to read my post? I didn't dispute her comments. I agreed. I said, "all that may be true, but" . The only thing I added was that it needed to be stated on the cache page. I have already emailed the cache owner. I also checked the last time they have been on this site. It was January of this year.

FWIW, I have attempted to contact two cache owners about questionable/missing caches and have to date received ZERO response after two/three weeks.

In case you didn't know, private property rights in Texas are very important. Walking around on someone else property is not a good way to keep your record clean and keep from getting shot.

2.3k · August 30, 2004

In other words there is no problem with a cache until proven otherwise.

I just read this again. WOW, that is one seriously ignorant statement. So there is no problem until someone gets arrested or shot???

Do you know that it is quite legal to shoot someone for criminal mischief on private property at night in Texas? Several cachers have hit this cache at night, including myself and my wife.

Think before you post.

What Renegade Knight was saying is pretty much straight forward. I don't see anything ignorant about it, it is just a statement of fact.

Think before you cache. If you had qualms about doing that particular cache, why did you go ahead and log it? As in anything it is best to err on the side of caution. Which was more important to you- getting shot at or getting another smiley?

1.3k · August 30, 2004

I think what the other people here are saying is you should email the cache hider and find out if the cache is actually on private property (and if so does it have permission) before you do anything else. It is common practice and common courtesy to contact a cache owner with concerns before taking it to the "masses".

You'll find that things usually go a lot smoother that way.

If you'll read CherokeeCacher's post - he lives in Houston so I'm sure he's aware of Texas laws.

Oh yea - saying "but" usually indicates a difference of opinion. :lol:

If you don't get a response, email them again. If you still don't get a response and you think there is an issue with the cache, use the "should be archived" log type. The GC.com approvers will be notified of a potential problem and then they'll check it out.

Many caches that are placed on private property with permission do indicate this on the cache page.

And of course - getting arrested or shot WOULD prove that there is a problem with the cache :huh:

southdeltan

August 30, 2004

In other words there is no problem with a cache until proven otherwise.

I just read this again. WOW, that is one seriously ignorant statement. So there is no problem until someone gets arrested or shot???

Do you know that it is quite legal to shoot someone for criminal mischief on private property at night in Texas? Several cachers have hit this cache at night, including myself and my wife.

Think before you post.

What Renegade Knight was saying is pretty much straight forward. I don't see anything ignorant about it, it is just a statement of fact.

Think before you cache. If you had qualms about doing that particular cache, why did you go ahead and log it? As in anything it is best to err on the side of caution. Which was more important to you- getting shot at or getting another smiley?

I didn't "log it". I posted a note. What in HELL are you talking about? I stopped today after I noticed the signs I wrote about. The first time I was there was at night and I never found the cache. So I didn't get a "Smiley" or "found it". So again, WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

August 30, 2004

And of course - getting arrested or shot WOULD prove that there is a problem with the cache

southdeltan

So you are volunteering as a test case? :huh:

2.3k · August 30, 2004

In other words there is no problem with a cache until proven otherwise.

I just read this again. WOW, that is one seriously ignorant statement. So there is no problem until someone gets arrested or shot???

Do you know that it is quite legal to shoot someone for criminal mischief on private property at night in Texas? Several cachers have hit this cache at night, including myself and my wife.

Think before you post.

What Renegade Knight was saying is pretty much straight forward. I don't see anything ignorant about it, it is just a statement of fact.

Think before you cache. If you had qualms about doing that particular cache, why did you go ahead and log it? As in anything it is best to err on the side of caution. Which was more important to you- getting shot at or getting another smiley?

I didn't "log it". I posted a note. What in HELL are you talking about? I stopped today after I noticed the signs I wrote about. The first time I was there was at night and I never found the cache. So I didn't get a "Smiley" or "found it". So again, WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

I am talking about your apparent problem with RK's comment, what are YOU talking about? My error was that I took 'hit it' for found it.

My comments still apply tho, if you are concerned in any way at any time for any reason- STOP. If, as you say it is dangerous to be on private property in Texas at night- why go do a cache at night if you are not ABSOLUTELY sure that it is NOT on private property? As others have already said and you have done- the best thing to do is contact the cache owner first. If you get no response try your local organization (if there is one) and failing that- then contact this site.

1.3k · August 30, 2004

:lol:

Seriously - all kidding aside:

Email the owner. If you don't hear anything in a week, email them again. If they haven't been on the website since January I'm betting you won't.

If you really think there is a problem, click on the "should be archived" log.

I'd also seriously recommend visiting the forums at TexasGeocaching. There are lots of people there that have been around a long time and there's probably somebody that knows something about that particular cache.

It's always best to try contacting the owner. If that fails then you involve the admins.

For future reference, forum posts will probably always result with the same advice - so I'd skip them and go straight to the archival log if several attempts (and weeks for reply) have been attempted.

southdeltan

August 30, 2004

Thanks for the advice. I didn't want to hit the "should be achived" log until I asked some more experienced cachers.

My main worry is that someone will get in trouble looking for this cache. I know I'm not responsible, but that doesn't change my concern for a persons well being.

24.7k · August 30, 2004

First I don't like caches near peoples homes. I tend to avoid them and I sure as heck don't do them at night. That's asking for trouble. But then I allready know "I assume all risks while seeking a cache".

Your post has two main issues. The first is what to do for your percieved problem. You got answers. Email the owner. However if your email was as friendly as your response to my post I'd not blame the owner for blowing you off.

The other issue is your statement that a cache owner should post the permission status. I don't agree. My reasons go beyond what I have allready written. But lets reverse it. Just what makes you think you qualify to seek a cache? Where are your credentials? What assurance do I have that you won't get hurt? I mean you didn't even have to check a box to "assume all risks seeking a cache" like I did when I placed mine. The thing is it's enough to say by checking the box that I have "obtained adequate permission" without having to spell it and every other nuance that goes into a cache placement.

If you really and truly insist on walking the path of certification then consider.

I’ll swap you a formal notice of the permission status of my cache if you will post your credentials for seeking a cache before you seek them. Things like knowing first aid, rapelling, spelunking, swimming, rock climbing, off roading, human relations, crime scene investigation, and hostage negotiations. How do I know you aren’t the kind of person who would piss off a nice old lady to the point where even though I had permission she fills your butt full of rock salt with her trusty double barreled shotgun?

9.4k · August 30, 2004

but

Exactly. Get over it.

August 30, 2004

Did you bother to read my post? I didn't dispute her comments. I agreed. I said, "all that may be true, but" . The only thing I added was that it needed to be stated on the cache page. I have already emailed the cache owner. I also checked the last time they have been on this site. It was January of this year.

FWIW, I have attempted to contact two cache owners about questionable/missing caches and have to date received ZERO response after two/three weeks.

In case you didn't know, private property rights in Texas are very important. Walking around on someone else property is not a good way to keep your record clean and keep from getting shot.

Did you bother to read my post? Heck, I have lived in Bammel since 1974. I am well aware of how Texas landowners feel. :lol:

If you are truly that concerned over the location of this cache, e-mail me through my profile page and let me know what cache it is. There might be a very good reason why you have not heard from the cache owner.

Yes, you have a valid concern/question. Caches on private property do need to have permission from the property owner, but (IMHO) the written permission should not be posted on the cache page, and although it is a good idea to note that the cache is on private property, on the cache page, it is not always done.

Happy caching, and I look forward to meeting you on the trails or at an event.

4.5k · August 30, 2004

Hey Texas, you may have legitimate concerns with this cache and its good that you want to ask questions. You did the right thing when you emailed the owner and left a note on the cache page. Hopefully you will hear from him/her shortly.

You did state that you "think" that the cache is on private property. Maybe its not so there's no problem in the first place. If it is, then permission may have indeed been granted. I agree with you that if the location looks questionable, then it would be nice to see it stated in the cache description where permission was obtained and that there wouldnt be any problem seeking the cache. But,,,, this is up to the cache owner and he/she isnt under any obligation to supply this information!

Just curious, how many people have logged the cache, and out of those, how many have had a concern?

Try to give the cache owner the benefit of the doubt! If you sincerely think there is a problem and you dont hear from the owner soon, then hit the "archive this cache" button to get an approver involved.

3k · August 30, 2004

What should you do? In all honesty, I think you shouldn't hold your breath.

The administrators of this website are not going to worry about whether someone received permission to place a cache on John Q. Public's undeveloped lot if they aren't going to worry about, oh, caches placed without permission in watersheds having restricted access. But keep in mind, by raising legitimate concerns about an approved cache, you are "the bad guy."

2.1k · August 30, 2004

I think before gearing up for battle with TPTB and beligerant owners, why not simply email the cache owner, and see what their side of the story is...

nobody has to be the "Bad Guy", nobody has to get shot, nobody has to be rude in forum threads, nobody has to visit any cache they don't want to...

Email the cache owner, and see what they have to say about the cache, and consider switching to decaf... :lol:

nfa

August 30, 2004

First off, I'm sorry if I come off the wrong way. I tend to be very direct and that gets me in crossways on boards occasionally. I don't desire to make enemies out of any of you.

I have emailed the cache owner. We will see what happens there.

As to not posting a note in the cache description about being on private property and having permission, I can think of no reason to not post a note, and many to post a note.

You don't need my credentials for going after a cache as you hold no responsibility for my actions. I/we do need a note or statement on the cache page of permission from the property owner that it is OK to enter their property for the purposes of finding the cache. Why? Because if we don't have permission, we are breaking a law. If you didn't have permission, you broke a law in putting the cache there.

Surely anyone can see that difference.

Thank you.

Edited August 30, 2004 by Texasbagman

3k · August 30, 2004

... nobody has to visit any cache they don't want to...

That's true enough ... but a decision not to seek an illegally placed cache without voicing one's legitimate concern does nothing to improve a bad situation.

3k · August 30, 2004

Someone placed a cache around my area. It looked to be on private property. So, being a Realtor, I was able to look up the property on mapsource, compare it pretty closely with town hall information, checked that against the name on the owner's website and found that perhaps this was his own property. It wouldn't look good for me as a Realtor to be arrested for tresspassing, so just to be on the safe side I e-mailed the owner and asked if he owned the property, so I could go search it without feeling creepy about it. The response I got was not at all what I expected. He said "Puhleeeze! Next time I'm hiding one at the Federal Correctional Institute!" Heck of an answer for a simple honest question, so needless to say this cache is OFF my list of caches to find. Besides, it's right on the side of a road, alongside a big pond attached to a big lake and across the pond is a huge State Park, with caches in it and finer views. I don't need his cache or his snippy answers.

August 30, 2004

First off, I'm sorry if I come off the wrong way. I tend to be very direct and that gets me in crossways on boards occasionally. I don't desire to make enemies out of any of you.

I have emailed the cache owner. We will see what happens there.

As to not posting a note in the cache description about being on private property and having permission, I can think of no reason to not post a note, and many to post a note.

You don't need my credentials for going after a cache as you hold no responsibility for my actions. I/we do need a note or statement on the cache page of permission from the property owner that it is OK to enter their property for the purposes of finding the cache. Why? Because if we don't have permission, we are breaking a law. If you didn't have permission, you broke a law in putting the cache there.

Surely anyone can see that difference.

Thank you.

try being a little less direct or a little more thoughtful before you flame, or up your meds... :lol:

3k · August 30, 2004

try being a little less direct or a little more thoughtful before you flame, or up your meds...

No way. Say what you mean, and say it with conviction. People these days are such "Milquetoasts."

August 30, 2004

... nobody has to visit any cache they don't want to...

That's true enough ... but a decision not to seek an illegally placed cache without voicing one's legitimate concern does nothing to improve a bad situation.

...if you don't like it, don't hunt it.......This seems to have become the standard cop out line lately. If a cache is placed in what appears to be a comprimising location, then shouldn't it be common courtesy to the rest of the caching community to make a simple note in the decription page? It aggravates me to drive 20 miles to hunt for a cache, only to find on arrival that it's in a sleazy location or that there are no tresspassing signs posted close to the goal. Yes, there may be a way into it, or it may be safe, but only the hider knows the intimate details. By not publishing some basic pertinent information on the cache page, the hider does a dis-service to those outside the local area. I have passed up caches that were in weird places, but I was still P.O.ed that it wasted my time to find that out only after I got there. Someone hiding a cache needs to think about how it will appear to the next person, not himself.

August 30, 2004

try being a little less direct or a little more thoughtful before you flame, or up your meds...

No way. Say what you mean, and say it with conviction. People these days are such "Milquetoasts."

au contraire, mom frere...people these days are so unpleasant! :lol:

2.1k · August 30, 2004

Thanks for the advice. I didn't want to hit the "should be achived" log until I asked some more experienced cachers.

...and received the responses I wanted to hear.

You forgot that part. You didn't want to poll the crowd. You wanted reassurance of your stance. There's a difference.

The posting in the description of whether a cache is on private property or not is a bonus. By submitting a cache the hider has given GC.com their checked statement that they sought and received permission. At the reviewer step, any further questions about the placement based on topo/satellite images/street maps and so on are raised and the hider is again queried about the placement. Finally the finders get to see it. You are finding it after the site and hider have validated that you are able to find it with permission. If that is not good enough reassurance, you can e-mail the hider yourself. If that's not good enough for you, you don't have to seek that particular cache.

The writing of the info about the location of the cache would only serve to reassure the nervous. If a hider received enough e-mails about whether the hunt were permitted or not, then they may edit their page to stop receiving all the questions. If they receive the e-mails and don't respond, then they're not maintaining their cache correctly.

Requiring boilerplate permission statements on every cache page is unnecessary.

2.1k · August 30, 2004

That's true enough ... but a decision not to seek an illegally placed cache without voicing one's legitimate concern does nothing to improve a bad situation.

this assumes that the cache is illegal, which there is no evidence of...yet.

nfa

August 30, 2004

I have been giving this some thought.

Your original question was/is, How or should I contact Gc.com.

Short answer: No, it is understood/assumed that once a cache has been approved and available for cachers to view and seek, that the reviewer and cacher owner have discussed such matters, and everything is OK.

You also said, “I posted a note on the cache page about my concerns”

This should be changed to a “DNF”, because it will alert other cachers, as well as the cache owner, that you chose not to pursue this cache because you felt it was a “risk” because it appears to be on private property. Now the reason it should be a “DNF” and not a “note”. When other cachers are reading/skimming the page, before they hunt this cache, a DNF is more eye-catching than a note. The cache owner is more likely to react to a DNF than a note.

August 30, 2004

OK, thanks. I will do just that.

4.7k · August 30, 2004

several of my caches are on provate property with the full permission of the property owners. in a couple of cases the property owners selected the location. i do not state on the cache pages that permission has been granted, but if you need this information, i will happily tell it to you beforehand. just drop me a line and ask.

if you don't want to do that, and you don't like hunting on private land, don't hunt my caches. simple and elegant.

9.4k · August 30, 2004

As to not posting a note in the cache description about being on private property and having permission, I can think of no reason to not post a note, and many to post a note.

Why? When the cache hider submitted the cache, he/she clicked the checkbox saying they understood the guidelines. Those guidelines include, "By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location."

If that's not good enough for you, then maybe this RASH isn't the thing for you

24.7k · August 30, 2004

... I/we do need a note or statement on the cache page of permission from the property owner that it is OK to enter their property for the purposes of finding the cache....

Permission to place a cache is not quite the same thing as permission to seek it and you want permission to seek. The two are related and obviously a cache is placed with the intent that people would seek it. However the right of entry, is the property owners to give or take away as they see fit. This country still has "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" signs hung up here and there. That right I will leave to the property owner to implement as they see fit.

August 30, 2004

I am coming down on the side of people who want to know if permission has really been granted, especially in the case of private property caches. As we all know all too often permission has not been sought much less granted no matter what that little checkbox says. And, no GPSaxaphone, that checkbox is not enough.

Personally I think that flask's opinion is really poor. He says:

i do not state on the cache pages that permission has been granted, but if you need this information, i will happily tell it to you beforehand just drop me a line and ask ...

Begging the question of what Flask means by "beforehand" (the hour before I set out caching? the night before I go out? at least three weeks before I go?), it is a simple matter of courtesy to inform the finders of potential problems -- not only permission problems but all problems.

To me Flask's statement is akin to saying "I do not state on the cache pages the terrain and difficulty ratings but if you need this information then I will tell you beforehand." If someone did this we would jump all over him because he was being such a poor player.

Not stating if permission has been obtained for private property caches (especially those hiding behind do not tresspass signs) is, in my opinion, being disrespectful of to other cachers.

20.7k · August 30, 2004

Man, I've gone over to the dark side...

Not too long ago, I would have said that this info should be in the description. Heck, I would have fought to require it to be included.

Rethinking the issue, I don't believe that is necessary. The cache hider has already checked the box saying that it is hidden appropriately. If it were required, why would a cache hider not include 'permission has been obtained', whether it had or not.

This reminds me of when airlines were required to ask all passengers if they had been in control of their luggage at all times. It doesn't matter if a people left luggage alone on the curb for ten minutes, they will always answer 'yes' to this question. Maybe we should just ask all passengers if they intend to hijack a plane, as long as they say no, we'll all be safe.

As always, if you are not comfortable looking for a cache for any reason, blow it off. :lol:

Edited August 30, 2004 by sbell111

4.7k · August 30, 2004

ALL of my caches on private property have landowner permission.

i guess when you are hunting one of mine i prefer you to operate under that assumption. if i had placed a cache on posted property in apparent contradiction with existing signs, i would jolly well inform you on the cache page.

i give a lot of consideration to what i want included on that page and if you do not like the uncertainty of it, don't hunt my caches.

i would really prefer not to be categorized as a poor player. or a player with a bad attitude. i've gone to no small trouble to secure permissions for a recreational activity on private lands. there are no permisson PROBLEMS that you need to be informed of. any problem you have engaging in a legal activity with the land manager's consent therefore exist only in your head and are your own problem.

I am coming down on the side of people who want to know if permission has really been granted,

how would you verify this? unless i can provide you with an affadavit, you have no way of even knowing if i've really gotten permission or if i'm just saying i have.

i don't hunt caches behind "no trespassing" signs. i just don't. and by "beforehand", i mean that if you really need the assurance you can drop me a line and ask me. since you are a detail oriented person i'm sure you will prefer to wait for a detailed response.

not all caches are for everyone.

August 31, 2004

I always hesitate when I see a cache listing that appears (via the map and my knowledge of the area) to indicate that the cache is on or very very near private property but the text of the listing makes no mention of it. If I actually go out to find the cache an see POSTED signs all over the place, then I really have some questions about whether the cache is placed with permission. I usually try to confirm the status of the cache location via e-mail with the owner or by posting a note on the cache's listing, depending upon the situation.

For my own caches I always indicate these situations to the best of my knowledge where they exist so that a cache seeker will know where the close-by private property lines are in that locale.

Personally, I see clarifying a situation you have some questions about is part of being a responsible geocacher. Further, offering helpful suggestions on how to correct any issues that do exist is also part of being a responsible geocacher. Nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes, but we can help geocaching in general by helping each other.

I've worked with park directors in my area to establish geocaching as an accepted outdoor recreational activity. They have my name and home phone number on file as the contact person regarding geocaching. The LAST thing I want is for an unknowing cache seeker to piss off a property owner/park director by accidentally straying into property where they're not invited.

3k · August 31, 2004

au contraire, mom frere...people these days are so unpleasant!

Very amusing that you began your post in french, because in my experience, the French are not people inclined to mince words.

2k · August 31, 2004

I recently went to search for a new cache in my area. The topo maps indicated it was in a wooded area in the country. When I got there, I discovered the area was completely surrounded by farms. A five mile trip around the perimeter showed no way to get to the site without crossing what appeared to be private property (although there were no "no trespassing" signs posted.)

I abandoned the search and posted a DNF.

I discovered a few days later that the cache owner had entered one digit of the longitude in error. The cache was 8 miles away in a city park.

I won't cross private property to find a cache unless I'm sure the cache owner has the authority to grant permission. Checking a box clearly doesn't do that.

August 31, 2004

au contraire, mom frere...people these days are so unpleasant!

Very amusing that you began your post in french, because in my experience, the French are not people inclined to mince words.

nor their meat!

5.3k · August 31, 2004

I think a cache in my area is on private property and it is not mentioned in the description. I posted a note on the cache page about my concerns. How or should I report it to Geocaching.com?

You should have contacted the cache owner, that is what I have done in the past when I find a cache on private property. In only one case was there a problem and that cache was moved. But I agree that the cache owner should mention if the property owner allowed the cache.

4.5k · August 31, 2004

several of my caches are on provate property with the full permission of the property owners. in a couple of cases the property owners selected the location. i do not state on the cache pages that permission has been granted, but if you need this information, i will happily tell it to you beforehand. just drop me a line and ask.

if you don't want to do that, and you don't like hunting on private land, don't hunt my caches. simple and elegant.

Im not going to contact every cache owner to see if they have permission to hide their cache. If i drive a good distance and arrive to find that it is indeed on private property, im going to be bit annoyed. You may have permission to hide it there but i dont know that. There are caches placed illegally and this could be one of them! Now i have to make a decision whether to go for it or not, maybe take a chance on getting in trouble with the law or even worse. True, a person can lie when they state on the cache page that its "ok to hunt, owner knows and you have permission", but having that in writing does go a long way.

Some of you say to just skip a cache if its uncomfortable to you. I agree with that wholeheartedly when its a true terrain difficulty. The difficulty rating is on the page and therefore gives everyone a clue as to what to expect. Hiding a cache on private property without any warning is not the same thing! Seems rediculous not to want to add some reassurance on the cache page that might help with this type of situation.

2.1k · August 31, 2004

So what if a cache hider writes "private property; permission granted" on their cache page and it's as much a lie as their clicking "I agree with the guidelines, including the one that says I need permission"?

The point is that if a hider is going to click and lie by agreeing to a statement that is false, there's no difference than if they write it out as well. If you are uncomfortable with the cache as it is given to you, don't do it. Really, it's that simple, Pandora...leave the box alone. If you still want to complete the cache, ask the hider for reassurance. If the result of that still does not sway your confidence, just let it go. Worst case scenario; request archival or send an e-mail to your local approver asking for their guidance given what the hider has told you and the situation you ran into when you arrived on the scene.

But requiring people to write "permission granted" is a redundancy that's just not really called for.

September 1, 2004

Personally, I think I would have e-mailed the cache owner directly with my concerns before making any kind of public noise about it.

The property may be owned by the placer, or someone the placer knows, or the placer may have gotten permission from the owner.

Even if not, direct e-mail would clear up the issue before any assumptions or accusations are made.

Might not be the right answer, but it is what I would do.

Sissy

this is probaly right

What Should I Do...

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