How To Promote Event Caches?

1.3k · August 25, 2004

In a now locked thread in the general forum, some of the inconcistancies and flaws with event cache approval and their promotion were brought up. I think that most of the people who were upset were upset with the "system" not the individuals involved - but more importantly it brought into focus a few problems I've noticed about getting event information out to the masses.

I feel that it's inconsistant if one event gets an advantage another doesn't (some might call it PERCIEVED preferential treatment). I think all events should get the same priveledges and restrictions. I think that, in the previous thread, perceptions of unfairness caused some discord - that's why consistancy is needed.

Now - the problem is - not ALL events are designed with the same scope or purpose. The monthly meeting for a small local group down at a local pub doesn't require what a regional or national event require. Where do you draw the line?

Often, larger groups (such as state groups) post events with the general welcome of all surrounding states. However, if you do not live within 100 miles of this event (and get weekly cache notices), read the "Geocaching in Insert-state-name-here" page (which a lot of geocachers DON'T), or regularly dig through the Events Calender (which isn't highlighted very well, so it gets overlooked) the only way to get your event out is by posting a thread on the groups page.

There are a couple of problems with this: 1. It's time consuming. 2. It could be viewed as spam. 3. You may not know the website for the group or they may not have a website. 4. Not all geocachers in a state/region belong to groups.

Basically, if you're not local - you often miss out on events you'd like to go to just because you don't know about them. This can also cause one state to think "Well, we had events but nobody from X state(s) ever show up - so #$!#$ them" - creating animosity... hey, it's a stretch but I've heard of it happening. What can be done, if anything?

I suggested a couple of ideas earlier:

- How about a seperate forum just for events? (this won't help people that don't read forums).

- An events watchlist email. Each week you get a LIST of events pending within a larger area than 100 miles (just events). You could also include a flag that indicates regional/national/international event and just include those, so smaller events that don't need, or want, to be advertised on a larger scale can be excluded.

I think the 2nd suggestion has more promise and definetly could be fleshed out. Of course, some people don't like email reminders. Perhaps some "NEW MESSAGE" feature when you login to "My cache Page" (of course some people stay logged in all the time, so you'd have to get it to update based on time, not the login)

How do you think the geo-event announcement process be improved?

southdeltan

3k · August 25, 2004

Nice post and I agree with what you've typed. I think the second suggestion would be the best way to execute a system that can work for the growing needs of the community at large.

9.1k · August 25, 2004

Bearing in mind that I am totally ignorant of the programming hurdles that might be involved, for me an ideal system would be to send out weekly e-mail notices, on an opt-in basis, that are configurable a bit like pocket queries, as follows:

Show me all events:

__ Which are within _____ miles/kilometers of my home coordinates

__ Which are designated as "national" events for the Country of _________ 

__  Which are designated as "international" events

__ Which are located in the Country of _______ [and, if applicable:] 
      the State/Province/Region of _________ [multiple choices allowed]

__  Which are scheduled to take place in the next ______ months

For example, I would choose to receive notices of any event in the next three months that is national for the U.S., or which takes place in my home state of Pennsylvania or the neighboring States of Maryland, New York, Ohio and West Virginia. I regularly travel hundreds of miles to attend events in those locations.

In an even more perfect world, I would be able to search for these events live on the site, or in the pocket query generator, using the same parameters. To a certain extent, I can do that right now, minus the "national" designation and the date parameter.

24.7k · August 25, 2004

For one thing I think you do need extra time to get the word out for national and international events. You need a cache page to point at for details, barring that a home page and then it's not a GC.com event cache anymore.

One method that seems to work well is to announce your event in a thread, have a bunch of regulars and mods create a bunch of controversy and let the controvery keep bumping the page to the top of the forums until it gets locked.

Maybe the question isn't so much "lets force all events to be cookie cutter clone events" but does GC.com wish to particiapte in promoting events that promote geocaching? If they do then how can you solve the "Problem" that is created by this sites rules conflicting with what is reasonable to promote an event that needs a lot of lead time for everyone planning to come to make their arrangments?

9.1k · August 25, 2004

RK, I would solve that "Problem" by having a constructive, polite discussion of whether the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines for Event Caches, and the site programming, ought to be changed to allow a longer lead time for events which meet some sort of criteria for "super-regional," "national" or "international" events.

Kept separate from any discussion of a particular event cache, such as "Geo Jamboree 2," "The Wedding of Beckerbuns and NurseDave" or "GeoWoodstock 3," I would hope that an examination of the applicable Listing Requirements/Guidelines in this thread would provide useful input for the Groundspeak personnel who decide what those guidelines say and how the programming behaves.

1.3k · August 25, 2004

I'd like to start by saying 2 things: Thanks Umc and That's exactly the kind of thing I'm thinking of Lep.

On to the meat of the reply:

For one thing I think you do need extra time to get the word out for national and international events. You need a cache page to point at for details, barring that a home page and then it's not a GC.com event cache anymore.

I'll agree that time is needed. My only complaint was that some events were given more time than others. There needs to be a clear guideline.

As for a cache page - that IS vital. However, having a cache page is NOT going to announce it to anybody outside 100 miles, that doesn't check the state page, or doesn't check the events calender.

One method that seems to work well is to announce your event in a thread, have a bunch of regulars and mods create a bunch of controversy and let the controvery keep bumping the page to the top of the forums until it gets locked.

Heh, that does seem to work well. Of course, it creates a lot of bad feelings and is probably why the OP locked that particular thread.

Maybe the question isn't so much "lets force all events to be cookie cutter clone events" but does GC.com wish to particiapte in promoting events that promote geocaching? If they do then how can you solve the "Problem" that is created by this sites rules conflicting with what is reasonable to promote an event that needs a lot of lead time for everyone planning to come to make their arrangments?

I think this is mildly OT (specifically the bit about what GC.com wishes to do) but I'll reply, hopefully this won't go to far OT:

Nobody suggested that all events should be cookie cutter. If you noticed I said different events have different needs. In my opinion the problem is not just the sites rules about the amount of advance notice you can have for a cache page - but the entire way that event cache pages work (just like regular cache pages, which is not the way to spread the news to a wide group of people in a short amount of time).

I agree the time range is a problem. But consider regional events, or state events - where months of trip planning isn't required. If I have an event in MS, the only way for LA, AR, TN, AL and possibly GA, FL, TX, etc to know about it is via forum postings - and as stated not everybody reads the forums.

southdeltan

4.1k · August 25, 2004

Several options come to mind for handling 'Event Caches'.

1) Allow the cache page for event caches to be approved up to 1 year in advance.

2) Have a searchable designation on each cache page as to the reach desired. Local, State, Nat'l., etc.

3) Using the weekly notification format, send out 'Monthly' notices for the larger size events, and a 'Bi-weekly' notice for the smaller sized events. Like the weekly notices, cachers could opt out if they so desire.

4) For larger events the notices could be sent out to larger groups, As in state wide for a state event, etc.

This should handle "Most" of the event cache concerns that come along.

John

Added #4 in the edit.

Edited August 25, 2004 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

1.3k · August 25, 2004

I hope this doesn't seem nitpicky - I really agree with most of this, I'm just bored and want to discuss

1) Allow the cache page for event caches to be approved up to 1 year in advance.

Do all events really require this? I'd think that the "lets go down to the bar for some beer and cache stories every 2 weeks" thing doesn't require this. There needs to be a designation on the cache page if the PRIMARY focus is local, regional (including statewide), national (or even international). This isn't meant to be exclusionary, anybody could go to any event - this would just help in spreading the word. This could be used in relation to the other suggestions you have:

2) Have a searchable designation on each cache page as to the reach desired. Local, State, Nat'l., etc.

3) Using the weekly notification format, send out 'Monthly' notices for the larger size events, and a 'Bi-weekly' notice for the smaller sized events. Like the weekly notices, cachers could opt out if they so desire.

4) For larger events the notices could be sent out to larger groups, As in state wide for a state event, etc.

I'm not sure I really understand #2 but I'll take a guess: You're suggesting that events automatically get sent out to people based on their "level" (or distance from the event). I think it makes more sense for the geocacher to pick how FAR they'd search - and if the event is in that area it shows up nomatter what the "primary focus target" is.

As for 3 & 4: That's fairly similar to what I'm thinking. I'd say weekly notifications of events only would be a good way to start. I don't think that you try to send the event cache info out to everybody - just the people that want to look (and they can decide how far to look, as stated). It's pretty similar to what you're suggesting but it makes more sense to me if I say it this way, heh.

I do think seperate notifications for events would be a good idea. People that love events could get them, people that care about events could get them - and people that don't care what the Martian Geocaching Auxillary is doing for an event could filter out that distance (I didn't want to pick on anybody... if there are Martians here I'm sorry). If I only care about events in the states/countries that are close enough for me to travel to - I pick that as my distance.

---

Of course, I don't know how feasable this is...

sd

24.7k · August 25, 2004

A spin on Leps post would be that a cache event could have a defined region (this would be handy for more than just event caches) and everyone in that region gets a notice. The larger the region the longer lead time you need and the longer lead time you are allowed.

That way you can point to a cache page with correct information.

If you don't like the automatic notice of every Tom, Dick and Harry having an "International" event. You could have a small map in your "My cache page" that shows events to which you have been invited by virtue of being a resident of the region for that event cache. Then only the map updates and your email is free of clutter. You can click on the dots (located where the event is at) to see the event cache page. Making a workable map would take some effort. The dots would be similar to Buxleys in how they function.

24.7k · August 25, 2004

You can color code the dots. Green = Cito, Red = Party, Purple = Club meeting. etc.

1.3k · August 26, 2004

Not a bad idea. Using the tigermaps stuff wouldn't be to hard I don't guess. You could define the area size of your map and just glance at it.

Interesting possibility.

Anybody have any other ideas?

August 27, 2004

RK, I would solve that "Problem" by having a constructive, polite discussion of whether the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines for Event Caches, and the site programming, ought to be changed to allow a longer lead time for events which meet some sort of criteria for "super-regional," "national" or "international" events.

My suggestion is to add some form of check box on the event posting form to indicate the "range" of the event e.g. local, regional, state, national, international and have a distinct time limit for each range. The wider the scope of the event, the longer lead time is necessary. It would place some amount of extra work on the approvers to make sure the local club isn't posting their bi-monthly get together as a national event but I think that would be a rarity.

Jim

August 27, 2004

My suggestion is to add some form of check box on the event posting form to indicate the "range" of the event e.g. local, regional, state, national, international and have a distinct time limit for each range. The wider the scope of the event, the longer lead time is necessary. It would place some amount of extra work on the approvers to make sure the local club isn't posting their bi-monthly get together as a national event but I think that would be a rarity.

Jim

Suppose I'm a Liechtenstein local cacher and want to invite the 50 (geographically) closest active cachers around my home town Vaduz. I'd be forced to designate the event as "international ", because most of the invited cachers live in Austria, Switzerland or Italy.

To shorten it up: I'd prefer the idea of scalable distance notifications.

BS/2

August 27, 2004

DELETED - upon further thought I realized the idea wouldn't work

Edited August 27, 2004 by Runaround

August 27, 2004

How about pocket queries? I just created a pocket query that grabbed all event caches in the US and Canada that had been updated in the last 7 days. I ended up with 59 items. One of these could be set to run once a week and you could have all events in the country.

Brian

August 27, 2004

How about pocket queries? I just created a pocket query that grabbed all event caches in the US and Canada that had been updated in the last 7 days. I ended up with 59 items. One of these could be set to run once a week and you could have all events in the country.

Brian

That's what I figured out to do after I had found out too late about GW2 and had to miss it. We watch them pretty closely now and have plans for visiting two events in the near future. That's the way to do it, just use the PQs. Advertise them way ahead too so folks that have long term schedules can plan ahead.

1.2k · August 27, 2004

My suggestion: Allow event cache owners to write a line about the event. Include this line with the weekly mail about new caches in your area.

Like:

Greetings from Geocaching.com,

Recent caches in your area...

11/13/2004

Fumble At Dark II [Event Partille] by krilel & hedberg

(Event Cache) (GCJQMC) (5.85 mi/9.41 km E)

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=147853

Greetings from Geocaching.com,

Recent caches in your area...

11/13/2004

Fumble At Dark II [Event Partille] by krilel & hedberg

(Event Cache) (GCJQMC) (5.85 mi/9.41 km E)

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=147853

This event is a night caching event and everyone is welcome. No cost at all!!!

That line could the cache owner write on the cachepage "edit page" just like approvers note!

1.3k · August 27, 2004

How about pocket queries?

I, for one, do not think PQ's are the answer for everything - in this case, let me explain why I think this:

While that is one possible solution - this is limited to Premium Members that know how to use PQ's. Yes, I did mean that. I know plenty of geocachers in my state that are premium members simply because they want to support the website. A verly large percentage of them don't have PDA's and those that do often have no clue how to use PQ's. That's not saying that there aren't a lot of people that go paperless - but I'd GUESS (not scientific) that there's a large enough amount that a lot of people would get left out.

Plus - the only people that'd be able to know would be premium members. I'm just trying to invite people to an event. I'd think that would exclude a lot of people - including new people that don't know what a PQ is.

It's a possible solution for people that know about and use PQ's - but it's not a complete solution I think. You leave too many people out.

It would be worth spreading that suggestion to premium members, however.

southdeltan

1.3k · August 27, 2004

My suggestion: Allow event cache owners to write a line about the event. Include this line with the weekly mail about new caches in your area.
Like:

Greetings from Geocaching.com,

Recent caches in your area...

11/13/2004

Fumble At Dark II [Event Partille] by krilel & hedberg

(Event Cache) (GCJQMC) (5.85 mi/9.41 km E)

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=147853

Greetings from Geocaching.com,

Recent caches in your area...

11/13/2004

Fumble At Dark II [Event Partille] by krilel & hedberg

(Event Cache) (GCJQMC) (5.85 mi/9.41 km E)

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=147853

This event is a night caching event and everyone is welcome. No cost at all!!!

That line could the cache owner write on the cachepage "edit page" just like approvers note!

I think that's a good idea, but I'm really more worried with getting the fact that there is an event out to the masses. Large numbers of people are often left off (100 miles isn't big enough when you're talking statewide or regional).

I think scalable event notifications would be a great idea.

As for this - I think it might be nice if there was a small amount of space for a blurb about the event - but how much is too much and how much is not enough?

southdeltan

1.7k · August 27, 2004

Ok, I understand your points, but the 100 mile radius is still all within my state, so I would be getting an extra e-mail telling me something I already know. I think a separate forum is a good idea. It would also be an area to discuss event caches, since many newbies ask questions about it.

1.3k · August 27, 2004

Ok, I understand your points, but the 100 mile radius is still all within my state, so I would be getting an extra e-mail telling me something I already know. I think a separate forum is a good idea. It would also be an area to discuss event caches, since many newbies ask questions about it.

It'd be a voluntary thing. You could sign up for one, or both, or neither.

I don't think a forum would be as succesful - most geocachers don't read them (at least not with any regularity).

southdeltan

August 27, 2004

How about pocket queries?

A verly large percentage of them don't have PDA's and those that do often have no clue how to use PQ's.

southdeltan

Pocket queries might not be the solution, but what does a PDA have to do with anything?

Brian

1.3k · August 27, 2004

How about pocket queries?

A verly large percentage of them don't have PDA's and those that do often have no clue how to use PQ's.

southdeltan

Pocket queries might not be the solution, but what does a PDA have to do with anything?

Brian

Uhm.. it was just a reference that a lot of people use PQ's for paperless caching, hence having to use a PDA (wether it's a PPC or Palm device).

Perhaps it really wasn't relevent - but it's my understanding that a lot of people that use PQ's import them into their PDA. I'm aware that you don't have to have a PDA to use PQ's (I use PQ's some but I don't have a PDA). My point was a lot of geocachers don't use PQ's.... or have a clue how to even if they are Premium members.

Anyways - back to the real topic:

How can event caches be promoted more efficiently?

southdeltan

August 27, 2004

How about allowing the event to be listed in the calendar without creating a cache page that gets listed in a local search? The cache page could then go "live" once it is within the posting guidelines.

1.3k · August 28, 2004

How about allowing the event to be listed in the calendar without creating a cache page that gets listed in a local search? The cache page could then go "live" once it is within the posting guidelines.

I don't know how this would notify people outside a 100 mile radius.

I know the calender exists, but it's sorta "buried" (ie, it's not a very obvious link and a lot of people don't use the main page) so people don't check it out.

I have no problems with event cache pages being approved longer in advance if necessary - but the notifications should go out further than 100 miles I think.

sd

24.7k · August 28, 2004

...I have no problems with event cache pages being approved longer in advance if necessary - but the notifications should go out further than 100 miles I think.

sd

I agree. The last event I attended I drove 140 miles to attend. At least half the people were from over 100 miles away. 100 isn't enough.

4.1k · August 28, 2004

The 2 events we attended were just over 300 miles away. The 2 nearest 'large' cities are each 150 miles away (Flagstaff to the south and St George to the west.).

For us the 100 mile limit will not do us much good.

John

5.6k · August 28, 2004

How about a sub-section on "My Page" where each person could set the range they want to be notified about, and events within that range are then listed automatically? (rough idea, details would need to be worked out)

1.3k · August 28, 2004

How about a sub-section on "My Page" where each person could set the range they want to be notified about, and events within that range are then listed automatically? (rough idea, details would need to be worked out)

I think somebody posted something similar but I don't have the time at the moment to doublecheck.

I think that's a pretty good idea, maybe a bit rough - but it definetly could work with some "polishing".

southdeltan

1.1k · August 30, 2004

Some polishing might be: for those creating event caches to specify a "radius of interest" for the cache (in miles or km).

At the same time each user would specify a radius of interest for him/herself as The Jester suggested. The suggested item on the "My Account Details" page would list all events where there is some intersection between the two circles. This way the event coordinator has some control over how broadly to advertize and the user has some control as well.

I would really like it if this could be set up right away because I have an event that I would like to publicize to more than just the local folks here in town. The folks in the big city nearby have so many caches closer than my event that most cachers won't notice my event.

How To Promote Event Caches?

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