Very Urban Micro

July 5, 2004

Anyone had luck with creative micros on city bus shelters?

I've just started eyeballing them and wondered if anyone else had done one.

I'm not interested in micro complaints or plain old hide-a-keys.

Fabrications and urban camo are the direction I want to go.

1.5k · July 5, 2004

No, but it's an interesting thought. I havent seen/done much besides the plain old magnet-in-a-tin-box-under-the-seat routine. Let us know what you come up with. PS.. I LIKE micros!

2.3k · July 5, 2004

Got quite a few of those down here in the Phoenix area...can be quite frustrating, if there are people waiting around for the bus. Some of the ones are in bus shelters that are no longer on an active route, making the search a bit easier to do. It's not a bad place to hide a micro, at least it's out of the weather. Just nothing special to see around there, that's all.

2.2k · July 5, 2004

you could make it part of a multi. put the co'ords on a piece of tape placed where the only way they see them is to sit down and look up.

9.4k · July 5, 2004

I would rather not hunt for a cache at a bus stop

(yes it's a true story)

1.2k · July 5, 2004

There was one in Göteborg, Sweden, a few years ago. But it disappeared together with the bus shelter when they were making a big reconstruction of the road.

2.3k · July 5, 2004

I would rather not hunt for a cache at a bus stop

(yes it's a true story)

WHOA! THAT'S WHACKED!

Now THERE'S a million dollar lawsuit! That's a bad way to go out....

Nice to see they are a Phoenix-based company, too...

Edited July 5, 2004 by TEAM 360

July 5, 2004

(yes it's a true story)

Shocking!

9.4k · July 5, 2004

(yes it's a true story)

Shocking!

2k · July 5, 2004

Ordinarily I despise micros... but if you want creativity...

- - Disguised as a bolt head with a magnetic base

- - Under bench disguised as a manufacturer's tag - use breath strip container and magnet

- - Are those vertical supports hollow and open at the bottom?

- - Disguised as length of elecrical conduit and attached with magnets .

Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights)

5.9k · July 5, 2004

Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights)

That only means you should elect not to hunt them. Hide away!

2k · July 5, 2004

Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights)

That only means you should elect not to hunt them. Hide away!

Hmmmm,

.

Where do you live? I've got a night cache planned for your bedroom window sill. A bison painted black.

(See the problem?)

2.3k · July 5, 2004

Ordinarily I despise micros... but if you want creativity...

- - Disguised as a bolt head with a magnetic base

- - Under bench disguised as a manufacturer's tag - use breath strip container and magnet

- - Are those vertical supports hollow and open at the bottom?

- - Disguised as length of elecrical conduit and attached with magnets .

Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights)

I think that city bus stops are paid for by the city, which means "public funds", which means it's okay to hide em there...since we own them anyhow...

However, after reading THAT story from Sax, I would not disguise them as ANYTHING electrical, nor want to search inside any supports or channels that have electrical lines running through them...

9.4k · July 5, 2004

Ordinarily I despise micros... but if you want creativity...

- - Disguised as a bolt head with a magnetic base

- - Under bench disguised as a manufacturer's tag - use breath strip container and magnet

- - Are those vertical supports hollow and open at the bottom?

- - Disguised as length of elecrical conduit and attached with magnets .

Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights)

I think that city bus stops are paid for by the city, which means "public funds", which means it's okay to hide em there...since we own them anyhow...

However, after reading THAT story from Sax, I would not disguise them as ANYTHING electrical, nor want to search inside any supports or channels that have electrical lines running through them...

...and you thought I was just trying to up my post count

2k · July 5, 2004

Ordinarily I despise micros... but if you want creativity...

- - Disguised as a bolt head with a magnetic base

- - Under bench disguised as a manufacturer's tag - use breath strip container and magnet

- - Are those vertical supports hollow and open at the bottom?

- - Disguised as length of elecrical conduit and attached with magnets .

Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights)

I think that city bus stops are paid for by the city, which means "public funds", which means it's okay to hide em there...since we own them anyhow...

However, after reading THAT story from Sax, I would not disguise them as ANYTHING electrical, nor want to search inside any supports or channels that have electrical lines running through them...

Not always. Sometimes the STRUCTURES are owned by the bus company (or a subsidiary to provide liability protection) and the site is leased from the local municipality. That's why you have bus companies getting sued when a drunk wipes out a shelter and runs over some commuters.

Also, in some areas a third party will build the shelters as an advertising venue and lease or gain easement for their placement.

Not trying to be a problem or pain, just trying to keep us cachers from getting TOO obnoxious.

9.4k · July 5, 2004

Not trying to be a problem or pain, just trying to keep us cachers from getting TOO obnoxious.

Far be it for you to be too obnoxious

2.3k · July 5, 2004

...and you thought I was just trying to up my post count

But it ain't about the numbers!

July 5, 2004

Why not, you probably won't be able to place a box within .10 miles of there anyhow.

July 5, 2004

Oh, no! Not another bus shelter micro! It better be creative, or...

5.9k · July 6, 2004

Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights)

That only means you should elect not to hunt them. Hide away!

Hmmmm,

.

.

.

.

.

Where do you live? I've got a night cache planned for your bedroom window sill. A bison painted black.

(See the problem?)

Yes, I see the problem. The problem is that you're trying to equate the private property of an individual (which by its nature there is no expectation of "public use") and public or corporate property (which by its nature carries the expectation of "public use").

Again, this is the direction that geocaching has taken. What used to operate "under the radar" and was in the gray quasi-legal area, has now become so pussified that we sit around debating someone else's cache and judging whether or not it's suitable. I have no great affection for these urban micros, bus stop or not, but I recognize the hider's idea. Every cache should be a learning experience for the hider, we hide one, decide it works or not, and move on from there.

I have only found one bus stop cache, it was a fun lunch time diversion.

Edited July 6, 2004 by Criminal

July 6, 2004

First, I agree with Criminal about the corporate property, Like what about SuperSize it! by TT? That is a great cache, very challenging.

And Torry and I must think alike, or read the same threads

- Disguised as a bolt head with a magnetic base
- - Under bench disguised as a manufacturer's tag - use breath strip container and magnet

- - Are those vertical supports hollow and open at the bottom?

- - Disguised as length of elecrical conduit and attached with magnets .

I was going to suggest at least three of those myself, and the other I figured he would have thought of hehehheehehheeee

July 6, 2004

However, after reading THAT story from Sax, I would not disguise them as ANYTHING electrical, nor want to search inside any supports or channels that have electrical lines running through them...

i once found a micro hidden inside the plastic cover of a cable that was holding up a telephone pole. before that day, i always thought that was something electrical, touch and die. but yeah, i guess those wires are used for support... i dont know, my parents just raised me weird. i blame them. (what i do best.)

3k · July 6, 2004

Yes, I see the problem. The problem is that you're trying to equate the private property of an individual (which by its nature there is no expectation of "public use") and public or corporate property (which by its nature carries the expectation of "public use").

So Criminal ... theoretically speaking, should we check books out of the library, or should we just walk out with them and return them when/if we feel like it? Does the "intended use by the public" matter?

Edited July 6, 2004 by BassoonPilot

2k · July 6, 2004

Yes, I see the problem. The problem is that you're trying to equate the private property of an individual (which by its nature there is no expectation of "public use") and public or corporate property (which by its nature carries the expectation of "public use").

Ummm, I know of a few that would disagree with your assertion that "corporate property ... ( which by its nature carries the expectation of "public use")". Whether a corporation is IBM or Jake's Feed & Seed, LLC its property rights are equal to those of Mr. and Mrs. Criminal. Many corporations may allow their property to be used by the public in an unrestricted manner but that doesn't remove the property owner's rights.

I love a good hide as well as the next cacher but I also have a deep respect for private property.

I don't like folks coming into my yard without my express permission to engage in activities that I may not approve of. My neighbors are welcome to use my side yard for the kids' kickball games all they want. However I DO NOT allow them to ride their ATV's through my yard. Nor would I allow strangers to start up a game in my yard.

The same property rights hold true for corporations. THAT'S why GC requests permission from the property owner. If for no other reason than out of simple courtesy. If this is too "pussified" for you there are plenty of "Taggers" out there that would happily welcome you to their ranks. To an outsider: geo-caching could be considered nothing more than graffiti by Tupperware.

Edited July 6, 2004 by Torry

5.9k · July 6, 2004

Ummm, I know of a few that would disagree with your assertion that "corporate property ... ( which by its nature carries the expectation of "public use")". Whether a corporation is IBM or Jake's Feed & Seed, LLC its property rights are equal to those of Mr. and Mrs. Criminal. Many corporations may allow their property to be used by the public in an unrestricted manner but that doesn't remove the property owner's rights.

So suddenly we’re arguing property rights? I’m not talking about rights. I’m talking about the suitability of hiding a cache in a bus shelter. I can go into any bus shelter in the United States and press my face to the glass, enjoy my lunch, or even stand on my head. I would be breaking no law by doing so. If I were to do any of those things on your private property I would be breaking the law, if I were doing it without permission. I do not need anyone’s permission to use the bus shelter.

I love a good hide as well as the next cacher but I also have a deep respect for private property.

Good for you, your “deep respect” apparently gives you a feeling of superiority such that you could attempt to compel others to abide by your standard.

I don't like folks coming into my yard without my express permission to engage in activities that I may not approve of. My neighbors are welcome to use my side yard for the kids' kickball games all they want. However I DO NOT allow them to ride their ATV's through my yard. Nor would I allow strangers to start up a game in my yard.

If you put a bus shelter on your property, you would certainly be entitled to forbid the use of the shelter. As the original poster wasn’t planning on using your shelter you do not have the authority to make any judgment about the legality of his hide.

The same property rights hold true for corporations. THAT'S why GC requests permission from the property owner. If for no other reason than out of simple courtesy. If this is too "pussified" for you there are plenty of "Taggers" out there that would happily welcome you to their ranks. To an outsider: geo-caching could be considered nothing more than graffiti by Tupperware.

Who, exactly, “requests permission”? GC? Is that Groundbleat? Geocaching? I thought the hider had to request permission if permission was required. And by the way, asking permission to do something that is not forbidden by any law, regulation, or rule is as pussified as you can get. I’m thinking that you believe this yourself since none of your five caches indicates that permission was ever sought.

You cannot equate a private residence with a public place; they are as diametrically different as apples and Frisbees. Every square inch of the United States is owned by someone or some entity, so tell us all exactly where you draw your line. Public park, public bus shelter, corporate park, corporate bus shelter. There are geocaches in all of them. If you don’t like one or more, don’t hunt them. But please don’t respond to a question posted here with your distorted view of legality or appropriateness as though it were fact or groundbleat policy. Nine times out of ten, common sense is all the permission required when it comes to public use property.

This same argument comes up over and over, someone with a sense of superiority comes along trying to impute their model into the game. They somehow consider themselves of such finer intellect that they are compelled by some force to educate all the stupid geocachers, to teach them the inane error of their ways, to take those same idiotic cachers under their wing and guide them to the higher plane of geocaching nirvana they righteously enjoy.

Bottom line, I will not seek permission to do that which is not forbidden. If you choose to rally under a different flag, so be it, we agree to disagree.

2k · July 7, 2004

Ummm, I know of a few that would disagree ...t that doesn't remove the property owner's rights.

So suddenly we’re arguing property rights? I’m not talking about rights ... I do not need anyone’s permission to use the bus shelter.

I love ... respect for private property.

Good for you, your “deep respect” apparently gives you a feeling of superiority such that you could attempt to compel others to abide by your standard.

I don't like ... in my yard.

... you do not have the authority to make any judgment about the legality of his hide.

To an outsider: geo-caching could be considered nothing more than graffiti by Tupperware.

... And by the way, asking permission to do something that is not forbidden by any law, regulation, or rule is as pussified as you can get. I’m thinking that you believe this yourself since none of your five caches indicates that permission was ever sought.

You cannot equate a private residence with a public place; they are as diametrically different as apples and Frisbees. Every square inch of the United States is owned by someone or some entity, so tell us all exactly where you draw your line. Public park, public bus shelter, corporate park, corporate bus shelter. There are geocaches in all of them. If you don’t like one or more, don’t hunt them. But please don’t respond to a question posted here with your distorted view of legality or appropriateness as though it were fact or groundbleat policy. Nine times out of ten, common sense is all the permission required when it comes to public use property.

This same argument comes up over and over, someone with a sense of superiority comes along trying to impute their model into the game. They somehow consider themselves of such finer intellect that they are compelled by some force to educate all the stupid geocachers, to teach them the inane error of their ways, to take those same idiotic cachers under their wing and guide them to the higher plane of geocaching nirvana they righteously enjoy.

Bottom line, I will not seek permission to do that which is not forbidden. If you choose to rally under a different flag, so be it, we agree to disagree.

Goodness, have we hit a nerve? Lighten up. Breathe in, breathe out.

Thank you for acknowledging the post but I could do without the arrogance.

I stand by my assertion

To an outsider: geo-caching could be considered nothing more than graffiti by Tupperware.

Therefore we have a responsibility to not allow this game to be just another form of "tagging"

"If you put a bus shelter on your property, you would certainly be entitled to forbid the use of the shelter. As the original poster wasn’t planning on using your shelter you do not have the authority to make any judgment about the legality of his hide."

I think you have me confused with the approvers here at GC. Perhaps it was your acknowledgement of my superiority that confused you. I specifically stated :

"Just a thought - However as the bus shelters are probably PRIVATE PROPERTY it would probably be a violation of the GC rulebook and I hope any approver would realize this and not allow it. (I'm kinda big on personal property rights) "

I Have already seen several instances of our game getting out of hand with players assuming your stance:

. " But please don’t respond to a question posted here with your distorted view of legality or appropriateness as though it were fact or groundbleat policy. Nine times out of ten, common sense is all the permission required when it comes to public use property. ... Bottom line, I will not seek permission to do that which is not forbidden. If you choose to rally under a different flag, so be it, we agree to disagree."

Caches end up in courthouse shrubbery and attached to non-playing, third party business signs. Caches are stuck to windowsills and lightpoles like so much unwanted chewing gum. Who is assuming the "Sense of superiority?" The player who says, "That's against the rules" or the player who says, "The rules don't matter to me?"

(BREATHE IN. BREATHE OUT. BREATHE IN. BREATHE OUT.)

Edited July 7, 2004 by Torry

July 7, 2004

(BREATHE IN. BREATHE OUT. BREATHE IN. BREATHE OUT.)

don't forget to hold both the full and empty chalice too.

2k · July 7, 2004

And by the way, asking permission to do something that is not forbidden by any law, regulation, or rule is as pussified as you can get. I’m thinking that you believe this yourself since none of your five caches indicates that permission was ever sought.

placed on a publicly-owned easement

This was a tough one to determine actual ownership. No one wanted to claim it but the closest we could figure out was it was either owned by the Warren Township School Corp. OR the State highway dept. as an easement OR abandoned and up for grabs, I may grab it in auction just for fun.

clearly and obviously marked as public land, maintained by the State Highway Dept.

old cemetary land owned by the local township

State highway right-of -way / easement. Strange situation: cache is located in a stand of three large trees that are surrounded by road in a triangular shape.

July 7, 2004

Hmmm...the quote to new content ratio is asymptotically tending towards infinity...

2k · July 7, 2004

Hmmm...the quote to new content ratio is asymptotically tending towards infinity...

This ol' pig is still trying to sort things out on his steam-powered, third hand, four year-old Compaq

July 7, 2004

Er, what was the original question? I forget.

2.6k · July 7, 2004

Ventura Kids have a string of them in the Simi Valley area.

5.9k · July 7, 2004

Thank you for acknowledging the post but I could do without the arrogance.
I stand by my assertion. To an outsider: geo-caching could be considered nothing more than graffiti by Tupperware.

It’s actually non-arrogance. I trust that most people are capable of hiding a cache without guidance from me, or anyone else.

To an outsider? Who cares!?!? What the hell do I care what a non-player thinks of the game? They will like it, not like it, or shrug their shoulders. Whichever, it matters little to me. And exactly how many “outsiders” have you polled to form this opinion? Were they a full cross section of the populace? I really want to know with what great kernel of knowledge you have presupposed the opinion of these outsiders that you know that they would equate geocaching with graffiti? It sounds like you have a**umed that an outsider would think that way. My experience has been quite the opposite, most roll their eyes, some think it sounds cool, and a very few have bunched panties.

Therefore we have a responsibility to not allow this game to be just another form of "tagging”

Who has a “responsibility? Where are you reading that? I have searched the entire geocaching site and I can’t find anything that says I’m responsible for any of that.

Caches end up in courthouse shrubbery and attached to non-playing, third party business signs. Caches are stuck to windowsills and lightpoles (sic) like so much unwanted chewing gum. Who is assuming the "Sense of superiority?" The player who says, "That's against the rules" or the player who says, "The rules don't matter to me?"

Where are you reading that light poles are against the rules? And who comes back to maintain their chewing gum? I never made the asinine statement you’ve attributed to me here. It’s your assumed rules that I will not follow. The “sense of superiority” is when cachers interpret the rules far more restrictively than they were intended, or add their own rules, and then try to make that the paradigm. Sorry, a bus shelter is not against any rule I’ve ever read.

All of your caches are on property that does not belong to you, or over which you have no authority. Because it’s “public” property, you gave yourself permission based on your common sense. A bus shelter is no different. The “public” is fully expected to use it (or even occasionally live in it). As long as the use is not damaging the structure or endangering the other “public” users of the shelter, I cannot think of any law, rule, or guideline being violated.

Edited July 7, 2004 by Criminal

1k · July 7, 2004

Ventura Kids have a string of them in the Simi Valley area.

Actually they are in Thousand Oaks, and they are very well hidden (for a Ventura Kids cache...).

Mini Power caching trail too

Power cache training trail

Mini Power cache trail also

Mini Power cache trail again

2.1k · July 7, 2004

since the original topic was bus stops and micro's --

does the cache actually have to be a container - can it be like a business card magnet - with info on it that must be recorded in the log?

Very Urban Micro

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