Geo Coins On Ebay

[GrandpaCannon]

Thanks for the legal analysis, Doc-Dean.

 

Hey Carleen... I have an angioplasty scheduled in OR 3 for 4:00 p.m.  Are you available to assist? 

Oh but that's the beauty of the law. We are all subject to it and ignorance is no excuse. That means that though we are barred from practicing it, we are obligated to try and understand it. So is helping someone else understand the quagmire practicing?

Technically, yes, explaining the law to someone is practicing. Will the Bar come after you? Probably not unless you charge money or do it a LOT. But it is practicing law.

[+Riddlers]

So are the bidders all from geocaching bidding against each other and all we are doing by running the bidding up is encouraging this kind of selling? And have you seen TBs for sale on ebay?

[+blazerfan]

I would hate to point out the obvious, but any time you make coins they will be sought by collectors. There are thousands of coin and token collectors... and many of them would collect a geocoin just because it is different, but never bother to look into what geocaching is. I have quite a collection of geocoins, but I bought all of my trackable coins just for my collection. Might as well embrace the fact that some are going to be offered up for sale. I imagine plundered geocoins have been bought and traded at many coin and token shows already. I dare anyone to take a geocoin down to a coin dealer and ask what they would offer for it... I guarantee none of them will ask how you got it... I bet they'd offer $2 or $3

 

I am also waiting for the day I find plundered ammo cans at a yard sale

[+Riddlers]

I hope you let us all know when you find the missing ammo cans, they should be pretty easy to spot. My question is what would you do if you see one in the back of someones pickup at a grocery store lot?

[+blazerfan]

I hope you let us all know when you find the missing ammo cans, they should be pretty easy to spot. My question is what would you do if you see one in the back of someones pickup at a grocery store lot?

While I am getting off topic this is an interesting question. If it is the pickup of a geocacher I know I sign the log book and later claim FTF If it was my ammo can (proved by looking at the contents or markings) and could sneak it out without being seen of course I'd take it back. If I ever found one at a yard sale (with geocache markings) I would definatly ask where it came from and make it sound like I thought it was stolen... maybe even accuse them of stealing it... might make them feel guilty enough to give it back. If not there is not much that can be done.

[+CO Admin]

I hope you let us all know when you find the missing ammo cans, they should be pretty easy to spot.  My question is what would you do if you see one in the back of someones pickup at a grocery store lot?

While I am getting off topic this is an interesting question. If it is the pickup of a geocacher I know I sign the log book and later claim FTF If it was my ammo can (proved by looking at the contents or markings) and could sneak it out without being seen of course I'd take it back. If I ever found one at a yard sale (with geocache markings) I would definatly ask where it came from and make it sound like I thought it was stolen... maybe even accuse them of stealing it... might make them feel guilty enough to give it back. If not there is not much that can be done.

Lets keep this on topic please

[+Renegade Knight]

Geo coins are collectable. I've found none at all so far and hope that when I do they are not Travel Bugs. While I'd like to find a few it strikes me as odd that people would pay money for them on eBay. Part of the thrill is to find them native in a geocache.

[+mcweb]

I agree that some geocoins are collectable, but some are meant to be TBs. USA and CA geocoins are trackable on geocaching.com and can be given a goal. Anyone can purchase one of these types of coins; therefore, people are not dependent on finding them in a cache. On the other hand, personal geocoins and geotokens are not trackable on geocaching.com (except Moun10bike's) and you have to find them (or know the owner) to get you hands on one.

 

My personal view: I have a geotoken that I place in every cache. It is only a homemade signature item, but my purpose in making it was to leave my mark. They have no specific goal, and if someone wants to keep one that is fine with me. When I leave these behind, and I don't think I could claim ownership of it in the future. I guess if someone wanted to sell it they could try (I doubt they would get any money for it). I don't know why anyone would want to buy my signature item, or anyone else's, because the purpose I see for collecting them is to show that you earned a really cool trinket from your efforts in geocaching. Example: I collect Hard Rock Cafe pins. I buy one each time I go to a new HRC. I really like my collection, but I wouldn't want someone else to go to a HRC and buy a pin for me, because it doesn't have the same meaning to me. My collection is my way of knowing and remembering some neat places I've been. Maybe I've made a point, maybe I'm just rambling now, but that's my 2 cents.

 

McWeb

 

edit: left out an I

Edited May 18, 2004 by mcweb

[Find Now, Log Later?]

Geo coins are collectable. I've found none at all so far and hope that when I do they are not Travel Bugs. While I'd like to find a few it strikes me as odd that people would pay money for them on eBay. Part of the thrill is to find them native in a geocache.

Much like travel bugs, after you've found a few, they're just another trade item.

[+Team Lawrence]

Technically, yes, explaining the law to someone is practicing.  Will the Bar come after you?  Probably not unless you charge money or do it a LOT.  But it is practicing law.

This is not accurate. Lawyers do not need to be admitted to the bar in states where they conduct legal education, only where they "practice." There are any number of rulings holding that education does not equal practicing.

 

In fact, non-lawyers generally believe that the unauthorized practice of law statutes are much broader than they actually are. In Virginia specifically, only "representation before any tribunal" or "preparing legal instruments" would be forbidden to non-lawyers in all contexts. Providing specific legal advice is OK if either (1) there is no compensation or (2) the party being advised in your regular employer. For a detailed review of the laws in your state, see the helpful ABA Summary

Edited May 20, 2004 by Team Lawrence

[+Crusso]

Well, it would be nice if we got a ruling from geocaching being that thier logo is involved. If they say they are not "resellable" then maybe ebay should be notified. If not, then c'est la vie.

 

I however, would not like to see the coins I've purchased and put into circulation as TBs put up for sale on ebay. As the original owner/purchaser I would definately contact ebay and report the item as stolen since this was not the original intent (If I knew for sure it was my TB) as posted on the TB web site.

 

Let ebay wrangle with the legality. They will usaully err on the side of caution and pull a questionable auction to avoid the bad publicity.

[+Renegade Knight]

I suspect Possession is 9/10 of the law.

 

Whats to stop someone from bidding on them to put them back in a cache or them being sold to 'help them travel'? I really don't think this can be enforced.

Edited May 21, 2004 by Renegade Knight

[Jake - Team A.I.]

I remember reading this thread, but I didn't think much of it until about now.

 

It turns out that one of the Canadian Geocoins was one that I started. The history of the coin can be found here.

 

This kinda ticks me off. I was hoping that iw woudl find its way to a cacher's collection, and not turning a profit on someones ebay account. The second coin I released has been AWOL for just as long.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

This kinda ticks me off.  I was hoping that iw woudl find its way to a cacher's collection, and not turning a profit on someones ebay account.

But your coin apparently DID find its way into a cacher's collection. The fact that the new owner of the coin decided to "recirculate" HIS/HER collection via eBay really is none of your concern. As many have stated, the next owner of the collection can do whatever s/he pleases with the individual coins, with one possible action being the recirculation of the coins via geocaches.

Edited May 28, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[CoyoteRed]

But you are assuming the "possessor" of the coin is the "owner." A traveling coin with a goal is much like a TB--the ownership is not transfered to another. You are only entrusting its movement to others. By selling the collection on eBay it is assumed that the seller is the owner. Clearly this is not the case.

 

As much as one wants to cop an attitude of c'est la vie because there is not much one can do about doesn't mean it's right.

 

Hopefully this does not become a trend.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

A traveling coin with a goal is much like a TB--the ownership is not transfered to another.

 

So you say. While I tend to agree that your position is "morally" correct, I do not believe it is legally correct. I don't think eBay cares in the least about the "morality" of such situations, but rather (and merely) the legality of them.

 

... Clearly this is not the case.

Wrong. In the example I quoted (and that you responded to), the original owner of the coin CLEARLY stated that he "was hoping that iw woudl find its way to a cacher's collection...". That is precisely what occurred. One can therefore reasonably conclude that the owner of that particular coin had CLEARLY relinquished ownership of the coin to the collector. The previous owner therefore has no voice in what the new owner does with that coin. It's a CLEAR case of "tough nuts."

Edited May 28, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[CoyoteRed]

Wrong. In the example I quoted (and that you responded to), the original owner of the coin CLEARLY stated that he "was hoping that iw woudl find its way to a cacher's collection...". That is precisely what occurred.

My bad. You're right. I totally brain-farted that one!

[+sbell111]

From the winner's purchasing history, it looks like he's a geocacher with a penchant for micros. If the bugs are meant to be travelers, its his responsibility to keep them moving.

 

This thread reminds me of the threads about pre-made caches on eBay. As I recall, some were pretty vocal against the items, others could care less. I'm in the second group.

[Jake - Team A.I.]

Just to reiterate my point... If I wanted to circulate the coins through Ebay, I would have put them up for auction there myself. I wanted to see the coins circulate through caches.

 

My problem is not with the buyer, he intends to keep the coin moving through caches.

[+ironman114]

What if the coins were collected by a geocacher that subsequently died, and their heirs did not know or understand what a geocoin was and decided to sell them as do many people who inherit belongings from others?

[4x4luv]

I typed "Travel Bug" On eBay I Got One (eBay item 3682276490)

[4x4luv]

I typed "Travel Bug" On eBay I Got One (eBay item 3682276490)

[+BillP3rd]

eBay lists one Geocoin (and it's a fairly unique one). Auction # 2250373924. The starting price is $10 and there are currently no bids.

Edited June 12, 2004 by BillP3rd

[+Nazgul]

I typed "Travel Bug" On eBay I Got One (eBay item 3682276490)

It looks like it's for a compact commercial sleeping bag, a "Hallmark Travel Bug 400" model. Looks like no harm, no foul.

[+jeff35080]

eBay lists one Geocoin (and it's a fairly unique one). Auction # 2250373924. The starting price is $10 and there are currently no bids.

 

FWIW, the seller of this geocoin purchased some Alabama Geocachers Association geocoins (which we completely sold-out). I bet we'll see some of our AGA coins for sale on eBay via this seller sometime in the near future.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

i haven't had any time to check eBay recently ... have any of those "Yellow Jeep Travel Bugs" appeared yet?

[+Team DEMP]

i haven't had any time to check eBay recently ... have any of those "Yellow Jeep Travel Bugs" appeared yet? 

None so far...

"Yellow Jeep" search on eBay

[+wimseyguy]

Ditto what CR said. If we were talking about Travel Bugs, that's one thing. They are intended to move from cache to cache, and the purchaser retains ownership.

SO what you are saying is that everybody that is going to place a "jeep TB" on their desk is really a small JEEP owned and stolen from JEEP??

 

I see an awful lot of small time crooks coming up....

Would they be charged with petite larceny?

[+hedberg]

I haven't seen any thoughts about the reasons WHY the seller might be selling those items?

 

Could it be possible that the person have become seriously injured/sick and can't go geocaching anymore, and instead of having all these geocoins in the home, he wants them to come to a cacher that could place them into caches again?

He choosed to sell them thru ebay instead of posting here in the forums?

 

I can't understand what the fuzz is all about. What about if some kid found a geocaching baseball cap on the ground, took it back home and sold it on the internet?

[+bons]

instead of having all these geocoins in the home, he wants them to come to a cacher that could place them into caches again?

Then he should probably go to where there are geocachers and shouldn't be making money off the deal.

What about if some kid found a geocaching baseball cap on the ground, took it back home and sold it on the internet?

The difference is that the geocoins probably weren't lying on the ground. If they were travellers in a cache then they weren't lost, abandoned, or swag. They weren't lying around any more than a rental car in a parking lot is considered lying around.

 

If they were swag, they were swag. If they were travellers then it gets to be a bit sticky.