Driven Over The Edge Iii

24.7k · March 23, 2004

If a local archives all their caches how long should you wait to swoop in and place one that has been blocked because of the 528' rule?

I'm thinking I should of placed it today but I can't find my GPS just now...

38.2k · March 23, 2004

Technically, the next day, but I think you probably should wait at least a week. There have been instances of people archiving all their caches in a huff, then reactivating them a few days later.

2.2k · March 23, 2004

If a local archives all their caches how long should you wait to swoop in and place one that has been blocked because of the 528' rule?

I'm thinking I should of placed it today but I can't find my GPS just now...

replace those suckers as soon as you can. he's gone home and taken his toys with him. replace them with yours. :rolleyes:

1.1k · March 23, 2004

You think there might be some 'available' ammo boxes laying around out there? BRB......

5.7k · March 23, 2004

I don't think there needs to be any waiting period, if you think that the caches have been permanently removed. However, if you think that the hider might change their mind, you might want to give it a week or two at least to see what happens.

We had a local cacher who had stated that when they got to 300 finds they were going to quit and also archive all their caches. They did in fact do this. We went out the next weekend and placed a bunch in a park that had previously been dominated by this hider. I think you should be fine if you use good judgement.

--Marky

4k · March 23, 2004

Well, in response to the actions of the cacher in the other two threads, I'd do it in a heartbeat.....why wait for them to stop throwing their little temper tantrum? I'd be out in a flash, planting a cache in every archived spot they left....teach them to grow up and be an adult.... :rolleyes:

4.7k · March 23, 2004

oh, YEAH! there are consequences for behavior. if you can't count on getting your palce back, you might create less drama.

got a tantrum archival in progress? slam that approval through!

2.6k · March 24, 2004

I'm with briansnat here. Technically you could go hide your cache there as soon as the other cache is archived. I wouldn't, however, run there with my plastic box as soon as I noticed the archiving. I mean, I don't generally lurk suitable cache locations with a ready-made cache in my sweaty hands waiting for someone to piss off and archive all their caches, so that I could go 'punish' them by taking over their cache spots just because they took their ball home with them. If they changed their mind after the tantrum, I'd be glad to see their caches restored.

2.7k · March 24, 2004

my $.02 - just maje sure that it wasn't temporarily archived due to maintenance needs or something... Of course, the archive description should say that. If not... kapowie.

March 24, 2004

oh, YEAH! there are consequences for behavior. if you can't count on getting your palce back, you might create less drama.

Actually, if one is considering "consequences," I would think such action could very well lead directly to an escalation of "drama."

March 24, 2004

I think it would be much more appropriate to adopt the caches. Even if you hate the person who archived them, you must agree that throwing away their finders' logs is extremely inconsiderate to the fellow cachers. And indeed if the archived cache is a good cache with worthy history, we outta keep it. If however it was a mediocre location, then a plan to replace it with an equally mediocre cache of your own is silly and petty.

I for one will be watching the developments with the local georapper's cache very closely, and do my best to ensure that they are restored or adopted in a respectful fashion.

21.9k · March 24, 2004

Adoption isn't an option if the caches are moved to another listing site. The owner still owns the cache, he is just choosing not to list it here. That is why "forced adoptions" (without the consent of the original cache owner) are processed very slowly and deliberately, to give the owner a chance to say "hey wait!"

3.9k · March 24, 2004

You could always email the cache owner and say: "Hey, I'd like to place a cache here. Just wanted to make sure you were going to keep yours archived, if not let me know. "

If he/she doesn't get back to you in a few days go ahead and hide.

6.5k · March 24, 2004

oh, YEAH! there are consequences for behavior. if you can't count on getting your palce back, you might create less drama.

Actually, if one is considering "consequences," I would think such action could very well lead directly to an escalation of "drama."

And we always need more drama around here .

I say give them a week, then it's open season. If it's a highly desirable spot and you are on good terms with your approver you might even give them a head-up of your intentions. Kinda like calling 'shotgun' virtually?

PS how did BP become a tadpole with 2 posts?????

24.7k · March 24, 2004

I'll plant the cache at lunch, if I can solve a problem. The location will be about 350' away from the other cache, and about 280 from another archived one. It might make it too close to one I've got placed but the location needs a cache so hopefully I can work potential too close issues out due to the circumstances.

Time to solve that technical problem...

March 24, 2004

If someone wants to unarchive a cache, does it go through the same approval process? Does an approver check everything, or just reactivates it?

If it is just reactivated, it wouldn't matter if you put another cache nearby and then the owner of the other cache asks for theirs to be unarchived.

24.7k · March 24, 2004

My unterstanding is that archived is considered permanent. For approving a cache they would not be considered, unless an approver knew something was up with a specific cache. If another cache is placed it would have priority in the area and could prevent an archived cache from coming back should the owner decide to request it to be relisted.

It would also depend on the specific situation.

21.9k · March 24, 2004

Yes, if a cache is unarchived, it is reviewed like it is a brand new cache, and it must meet all of the listing requirements and guidelines in effect when it is unarchived -- not the rules in effect when it was originally placed. Here are two examples:

1. Cacher 1 archives his cache. In reliance on that, Cacher 2 (like Renegade Knight) places a new cache 100 feet away, because Cacher 2 thinks it's a beautiful spot that really deserves a cache. Later on, Cacher 1 has a change of heart, and asks for his original cache to be unarchived. The reviewer would in all likelihood say "no" to Cacher 1, because the proximity guideline is not met. At that point, it would not be fair to Cacher 2, who placed a new cache in reliance on the assumption that the original cache was archived. Archived ordinarily means permanent.

2. A geocacher owns a moving cache, but decides to archive it. Later on, he changes his mind and asks for the moving cache to be unarchived. Ordinarily, such a request should be denied because moving caches are no longer allowed under the listing guidelines. The original cache was grandfathered, but that status is lost once the cache is archived.

Edited March 24, 2004 by Keystone Approver

March 24, 2004

Archived ordinarily means permanent.

I have a cache that I was hoping to "temporarily archive" since the last stage is in a very popular spot during the Haunted Forest festivities in October. I was hoping to be able to "restart" after Halloween. Can I do this?

March 24, 2004

Archived ordinarily means permanent.

I have a cache that I was hoping to "temporarily archive" since the last stage is in a very popular spot during the Haunted Forest festivities in October. I was hoping to be able to "restart" after Halloween. Can I do this?

What you want is to 'Disable' the cache, NOT archive it.

There's an option to do so; just look under the cache's name on its page for the link.

2k · March 25, 2004

Don't waste anymore time. Plant that cache so I can be the FTF. It helps to have talked about possible cache locations with the hider in advance.

3.1k · March 25, 2004

If a local archives all their caches how long should you wait to swoop in and place one that has been blocked because of the 528' rule?

I'm thinking I should of placed it today but I can't find my GPS just now...

Instantly I'd say, right now.

1.4k · March 25, 2004

Technically, the next day, but I think you probably should wait at least a week. There have been instances of people archiving all their caches in a huff, then reactivating them a few days later.

Bah. Jump right on it. They want to be stupid - they pay the price.

March 25, 2004

Bah. Jump right on it.

I wouldn't be so fast. There seems to be an ugly, all-out gc.barroom brawl going on in the Poci area, with everybody from a lowly banned plunderer up to Jeremy himself trading punches. You gotta be prepared if you really wanna jump in.

Let's see:

- trashcan04 steals one of georapper's caches in February, ends up banned

- in March, some LoneFWolf, a sockpuppet pretending to be a real geocacher from Utah, leaves lots of "Needs archived" notes on georapper's caches. All say basically that the cache is garbage, the owner s**ks, and the cache is not there. Some of these notes are followed by finds and none are followed by DNFs, so we gotta assume that all of these archiving requests are in bad faith.

- note that the attacker steals gc.personality of a good local cacher, by creating a LoneFWolf sockpuppet with the cache name spelling almost the same as the name of a real cacher

- Jeremy jumps right in and archives a georapper's cache based on a "needs archived" note from a sockpuppet with zero finds. Pardon me? Seems like Jeremy already had an ax to grind with georapper?

- MT Approver joins in and demands changes in another georapper's cache which has a "needs archived" note from the malicious sockpuppet. MT never explains what is inappropriate in the cache description, but he seems to trust the sockpuppet more than the owner, so I guess it is a public continuation of some behind-the-scenes spat too?

- Finally, georapper is hounded out and visibly mad; approvers flame out hasty archivals; and pirates and fake cachers are on the loose with their own agenda.

Sounds like a perfect moment to jump in & to rush to inflame a few more people. Yeah, right.

March 26, 2004

- MT Approver joins in and demands changes in another georapper's cache which has a "needs archived" note from the malicious sockpuppet. MT never explains what is inappropriate in the cache description, but he seems to trust the sockpuppet more than the owner, so I guess it is a public continuation of some behind-the-scenes spat too?

First, you need to go back and read my post in this thread.

Next, here's my log for the cache you mention -

This cache has been changed from it's original design. Please return the description to the original write-up.

Do not 'recycle' existing pages when you wish to hide a cache; submit a new one instead.

MT Fellwalker

This was a note I had intended to post before 'LoneFWolf' posted the Should Be Archived notes. It just happened that the SBA notes occurred in the same time frame. I thought it was clear enough for georapper's understanding, but I'll explain in more detail since you asked so nicely.

Sloppin' in the Dirt was not this puzzle cache originally. The write-up that's there now is for a different cache, one that georapper submitted and which I tried to work out with him. There were questions regarding the accuracy of the final coordinates he gave (two different sets, miles apart, in different directions, even though the puzzle itself had not changed), whose land the cache was hidden on (no answer, regarding either location), and, if the area was privately owned, whether or not permission had been received (again, no answer).

As I noted in the previous thread, georapper again chose to react in a hostile manner to my questions, and eventually archived the cache rather than answer them. He then took an existing cache and replaced its write-up with the one for the cache he was unwilling to have examined by the geocaching.com reviewers. I do not know where the container for this 'recycled' cache is, on whose land it is hidden, or whether or not its placement violates either the law or the guidelines for geocaching.com.

Whether or not 'LoneFWolf' posted a Should Be Archived note, this cache could not remain listed the way it was.

What your timeline fails to account for is that the history of georapper's conflicts with geocaching.com did not start with the recent pirate. Nor does it consider the private communications between georapper, myself, and many of the other staff members of geocaching.com. That is understandable, of course, but it does mean you should be very careful presuming you know the entire story or making any assumptions regarding the motivations of the people involved.

March 26, 2004

This was a note I had intended to post before 'LoneFWolf' posted the Should Be Archived notes. It just happened that the SBA notes occurred in the same time frame. I thought it was clear enough for georapper's understanding, but I'll explain in more detail since you asked so nicely.

Thank you, I must have been mislead by the time sequence ( sockpuppet's SBA 1st, your note 2nd). Indeed, your note should have been sufficient for the owner, but I (or other cachers reading it) couldn't figure out how much the write-up or location changed.

I don't have any problem with your note - I just saw a further indication of mounting tensions in it. I was quite a bit more suprised by iryshe's action on Conehead. A DNF by a rookie and an SBA by an identity thief, and the Boss snaps, "To remove confusion this listing will be archived"???

Of course I fully suspected that there was some blood between georapper and TPTB for some time; I think my limited timeline makes it pretty clear. But it also seemed that the passions kept escalating and (back to the topic) it might be unwise to stir them any further by cache replacement.

24.7k · March 26, 2004

I also jumped in the middle of all that. Especially since LoneFWolf appears to be nothing more than a sock puppet for the sole purpose of posting archive notes. Georapper for all his wit and charm is up front about what he's thinking. LoneFWolf is much more of a skulking type and I'd delete any archive notes by this person that crossed pathes wiht my caches. It's interesting to note they have one find in that archive cache but no finds under their stats. So even the one find they did have at one time appears to be bogus and was deleted.

The cache is now placed and we will see how it pans out with the locals. This is an urban cache that I like unlike most of the rest of my local caches.

2.6k · March 26, 2004

There seems to be an ugly, all-out gc.barroom brawl going on in the Poci area, with everybody from a lowly banned plunderer up to Jeremy himself trading punches.

Wow. :bad: What's the average age of Poci area geocachers? Maybe the situation calms down once they go to high school or something.

(I know, this post doesn't do justice to some of those smart underage cachers that have been writing to this forum. My apologies. )

1.4k · March 29, 2004

I am one of the local Hillbillies in question. I didn't attempt his Poky caches because they were not appealing to me...not because they were too difficult. While some may enjoy challenging themselves with math problems for pleasure, I find it as enjoyable as dragging the sharp edge of a piece of paper across my bare eyeball. I get enough challenges and ego strokes at work.

I found the replacement cache today. It was nice to be out caching instead of cleaning out the garage.

Edited March 29, 2004 by BadAndy

March 29, 2004

As for me, I might be tempted to go out and find all the archived caches from someone being jerky like that.

Take them home, clean them up, and make life more fun for everyone else.

Maybe it's not right, but I cannot believe how stupid some folks get over little issues. Grow up for goodness sake !

Most of the people on this site are volunteers for crying out loud.

They don't need our crap, they have lives too.

Please get back to the fun of the chase and the thrill of the find.

I am not aiming that at everyone, just the people who take the fun out of it for the moderators, administrators and approvers.

The people who sacrifice their time for free and get absolutely no thanks for it.

As for me, I am willing to live with a few snags if it makes things better for the Geocaching community at large.

I love this game. I play it all over God's great earth.

I like most of the people who I meet.

I love the places I have found.

Sheesh, I even still love it after finding a dead body near Vegas.

I am thankful for the hard work and efforts of those who make GC.com what it is.

My family thanks you too !

So lighten up everyone. It's a game for goodness sake!

Play hard and smile more often!

Driven Over The Edge Iii

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