Deleted Log

[+Team Kuebbing]

On New Years Day I found a cache and logged it. I said I thought the cache was terrible. It was an empty 35mm film cannister directly off an ugly 4 wheeler trail and I said as much. I described the container and location and noted that I placed a rain check for putt putt golf inside but said I don't recommend anyone look for it. I closed by saying "Despite my feelings about this cache it's good to get out of the house, thanks for the hunt." The cache's owner e-mailed me a note saying "What a nice way to let me know my cache is trashed," the next day. Today I get home from work to find he has deleted my log and archived the cache. I was ticked off after driving an hour to get to an ugly cache in an ugly area but after all of this I think it's just bad form to delete a log that was an honest assessment of the cache. Isn't the reason for logging the cache to let the hunter tell about our experience? As long as the hunter actually found the cache and didn't give spoilers or break any rules put out by the hider, shouldn't the hider let the log stand? What do you think? I still have nothing against this guy personally, I just want my log back. I already e-mailed him asking him why.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I've bit my tongue on some caches. I don't put my negative personal opinions about a cache in the log, ever. If I don't like it I'll keep it very short and just write "found it" and that's it.

 

Recently a cacher (who has never hidden a single cache) blasted one of my caches. He made a big deal about lousy parking and how innappropriate it was. I was tempted to delete his find but instead I figured I'd allow it to stand so others could see what a jerk he is.

 

I did update the cache page to say you don't have to park in the middle of the road nor stand there to locate the cache, to use your brains.

 

Now I think it's poor form to delete your log. I might have asked you to rephrase your comments and then allow that to stand. You can still log that cache. Simply write it short and sweet and see if that flies.

Edited January 5, 2004 by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite

[mortonfox]

This situation is made for "DPM".

[+scoobydooers]

You didnt just spend 4 hours at the DMV did you?

I know exactly how those DMV lines can get to a person

 

makes you say things that you dont normally say

 

stayfloopy is right, next time, use the secret handshake and clue your fellow cachers with a DPM. its easy, you would post a message like any other but

include the secret message

[+BeachBuddies]

Do you have an example of a post using this "secret message" DPM?

[+MissJenn]

Here's one of mine:

Came out here today with XXXXXX, after not finding the one over at XXXXXX Park. We were within 50 feet of the cache, according to your coordinates. We could see the trash and garbage mentioned before. We could see the 50 gallum (sic) metal drum, etc. There was a gentleman in his backyard working on his vehicle and he looked over at us several times. Rather than seeming like hoodlums, we decided to turn our backs on this DPM.

While not exactly secretive, it also did not get deleted (yet). Edited January 6, 2004 by MissJenn

[+Staos]

What's DPM stand for?

[+scoobydooers]

Do you have an example of a post using this "secret message" DPM?

would post a message

 

(notice the bold letters in my orignal post, ) in this way only those in the know will know. I think Bassoon used the first DPM when he posted this log

 

September 6, 2003 by BassoonPilot (1022 found)

Find #1013. Drove over here promptly after snagging BrianSnat's brand-new multicache. Didn't park at the nearest spot, but the car-to-car time was still only 6 minutes. Cache was found in the first spot I examined; I traded the ''Where's George'' dollar. Then it was time for my morning cup of coffee. Thanks!

 

 

Click here for the actual DMP discussion

Edited January 6, 2004 by scoobydooers

[+Quest Master]

Could somebody here please do me the great honor of DPMing my cache:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=105217

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Could somebody here please do me the great honor of DPMing my cache:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=105217

Just for you...

[+HartClimbs]

You wouldn't criticize an opponents backhand if you were playing tennis, would you? If you had a game - and felt disappointed in the challenge - you'd just say "Thanks" and not ask the person to play again. If you don't like someone's cache hiding techniques - don't seek their caches.

 

Unless someone askes for feedback, you can never go wrong keeping negative comments to yourself. If you enjoyed the cache, write a nice log detailing your experience. If you didn't - just log "TNLN - thanks.". No need to be a smart alec with DPM's (unless of course you know the hider and are just enjoying a mutual joke).

 

I'm sure you've got a favorite flavor of ice cream, but I'm guessing nobody would be interested at Baskin Robbins in hearing why "Fudge Ripple" sucks IYHO. Of course, deleting the log probably wasn't right, but I'd understand being pissed. I've read negative logs on my caches (as have other hiders) and to be honest - there's a running joke about some folks who normally log negative things. Everyone's got a different perspective - some folks see partly cloudy days, others partly sunny.

 

It's a game - some caches are more fun that others - but part of the fun is finding different surprises, but unless you've been certified by the "Cache Critic Know-it-all Association of North America" (or one of it's other affiliates), I'd err on the side of either saying something nice - or just TNLNSL.

 

Of course, that's just MY opinion - I also like Fudge Ripple, Chocolate, Vanilla, Mint Chocolate Chip.......pretty much everything at Baskin Robbins.

Edited January 6, 2004 by HartClimbs

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Yeah the thing is that we all feel we have the right to say anything we want. We do have that right but sometimes we fail to remember there might be consequences. The consequence of poor mouthing his cache was getting your log deleted.

 

I wonder if this cacher that archived his cache was experienced or new? If he were new you may have chased someone away.

[+briansnat]

I think you were out of line by trashing the cache in your log. A simple "TNLNSL, Thanks" gets the lame cache message across. If you have concerns about the cache causing problems, or being unsafe, it's OK to e-mail the cache owner, but to criticize it because its lame.... that's pretty rude. If someone gave you a gift, would you call it a piece of crap in front of the giver? The same should go for caches. The owner made the effort to hide it. Even if it's lame, just say "thanks" and move on.

 

On the other hand, I don't think owners should be deleting legit found it logs without first contacting the finder to see if they will change it.

[+Sparky-Watts]

I think you were out of line by trashing the cache in your log.  A simple "TNLNSL, Thanks" gets the lame cache message across.  If you have concerns about the cache causing problems, or being unsafe, it's OK to e-mail the cache owner, but to criticize it because its lame.... that's pretty rude.  If someone gave you a gift, would you call it a piece of crap in front of the giver?  The same should go for caches. The owner made the effort to hide it. Even if it's lame, just say "thanks" and move on.

 

On the other hand, I don't think owners should be deleting legit found it logs without first contacting the finder to see if they will change it.

I agree. If you felt slighted by the cache in question, log a TNLNSL on the cache page, and email the owner with a "respectable" message that lets them know why you didn't like the cache, and possibly offer some tips as to what might make it better. If they were a newbie, you could have helped to prevent any future errors. If they were experienced, perhaps they were getting bored and lax, and needed a wake-up call. At any rate, I don't think it was appropriate to delete your "Found It" log without asking you to edit it.

Edited January 6, 2004 by Sparky-Watts

[+The Leprechauns]

There is a fine line to be walked between providing valid and truthful constructive criticism of a bad cache or one in need of attention, vs. thanking the hider for placing a cache for me to find. By moderating my words, I seem to manage getting my point across without ever having any of my 600+ logs deleted.

 

There is ALWAYS something nice to say about a cache, even if it's a lame driveby, if only to thank the hider for adding a smilie to your find count. There's a big difference between "Thanks for introducing me to this cute little park with its new playground, although this cache was a quick find in a fairly exposed location" vs. "13th of 28 finds today, the muggles will surely plunder this lame cache because it's sitting out in the open."

 

There is also the option of e-mailing the hider with criticism privately - this tends to be better received as the hider does not feel publicly embarrassed. When I send such an e-mail, I will usually say something like "I enjoyed your XYZ cache today, but I had a concern about the hiding spot that I didn't want to mention in my log...."

 

All of that being said, Team Kuebbing, I agree with others... I have NEVER deleted a legit find from any of my caches. The owner ought to have been able to work this out with you by e-mail. I bet if he had asked, you would have toned down your log just a bit. We all have to get along.

 

One other thing I've noticed: I am more likely to be critical when I am geocaching in an area far from home, where I do not know the cache hider and am unlikely to be in the area again. Close to home with cache owners who I see at picnics, I try very hard never to be offensive in my logs. I should do a better job of being consistent.

[+Team Kuebbing]

I relogged this cache yesterday with a simple "Found cache and left rain check for minigolf prior to cache being archived." Today I got an e-mail from the owner saying that the deletion was an accident when he was archiving the cache. After reading everyone's response here I think I'll just leave my new log. I've never encountered a shy geocacher who would get spooked by criticism of any kind. Usually my fellow geocacher is loud and proud but just in case, I'll take the free advice and try to word my experience on the hunt in a less offensive way. Thanks for all of your responses.

[+Sparky-Watts]

I relogged this cache yesterday with a simple "Found cache and left rain check for minigolf prior to cache being archived." Today I got an e-mail from the owner saying that the deletion was an accident when he was archiving the cache. After reading everyone's response here I think I'll just leave my new log. I've never encountered a shy geocacher who would get spooked by criticism of any kind. Usually my fellow geocacher is loud and proud but just in case, I'll take the free advice and try to word my experience on the hunt in a less offensive way. Thanks for all of your responses.

Well, that's a good ending to a bad story. Glad it worked out that way!

[dboggny]

Usually my fellow geocacher is loud and proud

i agree with you. whether or not you poo pood his cache is neither here nor their. ones log should never be deleted unless it was fasley made or spoiled it for others. he said it was done by accident, you must asses that yourself; however, there is no reason why a legit log should be deleted even if you said the cache sucked.

 

danny

[mortonfox]

While it is important to be appreciative and polite towards one's fellow cache hiders, sometimes there are serious problems that have to be noted. I try not to be judgemental in my logs so I won't write that such and such cache sucks or is a waste of time but if the cache is wet/trashed/full of mud or is out in the open or if there is a problem with the location, I'll state so factually. If the cache owner has a problem with any of my logs, I hope he/she will contact me so we can work it out.

[+The Blind Acorn]

Evidently I'm not the greatest hider of all times in my area. Recently, I've been getting frustrated because I spent a good amount of time hiding caches and it seems everyone wants to tell me that my coordinates are off. I really don't think they are off, and have rechecked them. I leave peoples posts alone for the most part because sometimes they do contain information that will help someone else find the cache.

 

I'm doing the best I can with them. I can't help it if people can't find the container!!!

[+Mopar]

Evidently I'm not the greatest hider of all times in my area. Recently, I've been getting frustrated because I spent a good amount of time hiding caches and it seems everyone wants to tell me that my coordinates are off. I really don't think they are off, and have rechecked them. I leave peoples posts alone for the most part because sometimes they do contain information that will help someone else find the cache.

 

I'm doing the best I can with them. I can't help it if people can't find the container!!!

No idea about your caches. personally, but if a lot of people started telling my the coords to my caches are off, I might start to think maybe they are. I usually take very good care to get accurate coord, I revisit the cache on different days, and avg litterally thousands of readings, yet every once in a while, some still says they are off. Since for every one of those, I also get 20 logs saying how great the coords are, I don't let it get to me. Heck, We just put out what I thought was a challenging multi, but the first logs are all saying how easy it was 'cause the coords where so perfect, the gps took them right to each stage. Ah well........

[+Logscaler and Red]

Evidently I'm not the greatest hider of all times in my area. Recently, I've been getting frustrated because I spent a good amount of time hiding caches and it seems everyone wants to tell me that my coordinates are off. I really don't think they are off, and have rechecked them. I leave peoples posts alone for the most part because sometimes they do contain information that will help someone else find the cache.

 

I'm doing the best I can with them. I can't help it if people can't find the container!!!

 

I have a problem with people saying someone has "coordinates Off". Different maybe. That is what I post myself.

 

I have a cache out that has been found something like 85 times. About 35 first time finds alone. One guy has said the numbers where off by 75 feet, yet 20 some odd people have said the numbers where right on. Go figure who is right and who has the problem.

 

If you input the same cords like you where hunting the cache and then go try to find it, how close are you.

 

And you might try setting up a cache like This Control Point cache for your area.

 

logscaler.

[+bob393]

I never complain.

It takes a lot of work to place a cache and no matter what I think it's someones baby. If its inappropriate eMail them!

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I never complain.

It takes a lot of work to place a cache and no matter what I think it's someones baby. If its inappropriate eMail them!

I agree totally.