+Seth! Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 I hadn't visited the forums for a while. Now I remember why. I come across threads like "weapons" or other threads where people shamelessly display their illiteracy and narrow minds. If anyone else is interested in actually discussing *geocaching* and can spell correctly, I'd be all for it. But I think most of us need to just get out and hunt a cache or two hundred. (But now I have to look over my shoulder...) Dismayed, Seth! Quote Link to comment
Geo Quest Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 I'm tired of topics that don't have anything to do with geocaching. I'm going to go start a new thread with a geocaching topic. I'll call it: "Why does the quality of geocaches seem to devolve over time?" Or how about: "What kind of geocaching gear do you carry?" Or maybe: "Which GPSR is best for geocaching?" Quote Link to comment
iryshe Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 The weapons forum was appropriate (the specific question being if people who geocached brought weapons). When it strays I try (stress try) to keep the topic on target. Repeat questions come up because new people come to the game all the time. Just avoid the regurgitated topics. What annoys me is this recent rash of fake accounts on the site. I should have shut down the Mitsuko account as soon as I knew it was a troll. Obviously people think its funny, but we have enough trolls out there already without a few fake ones in the bunch. I can easily track down your real account so don't bother. Thank you for not disrupting the forums. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 On the advise of others, I have not even looked at the 'weapons' thread. I'd much rather enjoy serious Caching topics. This is mostly because I have an interest in learning, not spewing. Threads I plan to avoid: Oprah's first cache, Geocaching and abortion, Jesus and Geocaching, Gothic geocachers, caching in drag, Democrat vs Republican caches, devil worship avtars, underground alternate uses for your GPSR (how to get back at the capitalist imperialist pigs). Fine, be yourself, but don't dump your bagage on everyone else (or this site)! Let stick to the subject at hand, shall we? Quote Link to comment
+JAR Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 I see that there were 257 posts to the "Caching with weapons" thread in a single week. (And still it goes on.) I can't help but wonder if that's a record... And I'm very much afraid to learn that it's not! How's the disk space holding up, Jeremy? "Decision making factor absent from brain" Quote Link to comment
Eric O'Connor Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):Thank you for not disrupting the forums. By using these words you leave me no choice but to take this personally. The vast majority of responses to my joke have been positive, in spite of the fact that I pleaded for negative feedback. I agree that the forums need to return to a certain level of dignity, but to compare the Mitsuko event with the weapons thread and respond the way you chose can only mean that you prefer negativity to humor. That's not how I choose to spend my leisure time and I'm sure other will agree. Quote Link to comment
+Dawgies Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Eric O'Connor: By using these words you leave me no choice but to take this personally. That's not how I choose to spend my leisure time and I'm sure other will agree. I personally don't agree with you. I prefer learning over slamming someone emotionally and playing with their minds. I also feel a troll is a troll. This is someone elses play ground. We play by the the very modest set rules or we play somewhere else. I can live with that. ONWARD! ~Honest Value Never Fails~ Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 The majority of the responses were "positive" only because everyone else was attempting to ignore the juvenile antics, IMO. Quote Link to comment
Eric O'Connor Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Dawgies:I personally don't agree with you. I prefer learning over slamming someone emotionally and playing with their minds. What exactly are you learning in the weapons thread? That people disagree? I begged the Groundspeak crew to end that thread after things became hostile, yet on it goes.... Where and when exactly have I slammed anyone emotionally? (Bassoon is asking for it, but I'll keep my mouth shut ) Ask anyone who took the time to write "Mitsuko" how they were treated. Other than occasionally smacking around "Eug" on the IRC channel, I try hard to keep things upbeat and informative. Quote Link to comment
+TeamJiffy Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 The determination of what is "appropriate" in the forums is difficult, once you get beyond the standard legal issues of libel/slander, personal threats, etc... The only two guideline I (Joel of "Joel and Fran") follow in ANY forum are "Don't be a jerk" and "don't be boring" The first guideline creates rules such as "Don't insult someone; don't swear; don't lie; don't brag (not that I *have* anything to brag about!!) etc. The second guideline creates some more subtle rules: One is this, which I think, when violated regularly, starts sounding the death-knell for lots of forums I have visited: Don't try to make the forums an "insider's playground" In other words, don't encourage silly 'lingo', don't use the forums as a replacement for private-email between a few friends, don't create cliques in the forum, where you reply to only a few old friends, and ignore newcomers. Another is "don't make the forum a platform for politics" (unless the forum's purpose is politics!), and don't clog the forums with silliness. (This doesn't mean that you don't joke around a bit - the balance to consider is to think of the forums as a dialog between friends spending a day with each other - you rib each other a bit, tell a few jokes, make a few silly comments, but you also don't usually perform stand-up routines in front of each other). Of course, all of this makes it sound like I over-analyze all of this and sit with a big list of rules, forming crafted judgements of all I read and post. Not at all! I guess what I am describing is the set of instincts I use when I read the text I am about to post, and decide if I like it or not. "To each their own", though... others may certainly disagree... Quote Link to comment
Dru Morgan Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 I think you made some valid points. Sounds like you have a pretty good outline of behaviour that would work in a forum/newsgroup. But, then why did you have to discredit your whole statement by throwing in "to each his own, others may disagree" at the end? You either believe your set of rules would work, or believe they won't. If you believe in them, then stand up for them. Don't be afraid if others don't agree. If you don't believe them, then don't waste our time and yours telling us what they are. Sorry, I had to rant a little here. I just have problems with relativism. This is not really aimed at you, nor is this meant as the beginning of a flame war, because I really think your ideas are great. I just wish it wasn't so in vogue today to be PC and end every statement with "that is just true for me, it might be different for you." Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills One man gathers what another man spills - St. Stephen (on caching) -Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com/dru Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Dru, I agree with you on relativism, and that the previous post had the right idea. The point I would like others to see is that using your strong feelings on topics other than Geocaching or unrelated to Geocaching should be done on some other board. If Geocaching remains the topic, then fine. If the main topic becomes the related issue, then we have ended up in the wrong spot. Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Cuz everybudy knows if you cant spel yer stupit. You don't want to participate in the discussions. However you creat your own thread to insult those that do. If Jeremy thought the "weapons" thread was inappropriate he would have closed it. I think I will go out and find a cache. Thanks for the brilliant advice. By the way hows my spelling? I must be stupit. Preperation, the first law to survival. Quote Link to comment
iryshe Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Eric O'Connor: By using these words you leave me no choice but to take this personally. Good. You should. Because the whole Mitsuko thread was allowed in the first place, resulted in encouraging other folks that creating fake accounts was ok. Surprisingly enough, some of us actually want to talk to real people here and see different sides of a real argument. Creating fake people doesn't really make for good conversation. This is not Ultima Online or Everquest where roleplaying is encouraged. If you read my first post, both thoughts were in two separate paragraphs and did not relate to each other. I do not compare the right of having a gun with creating fake avatars. Common sense would show there is no connection. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Preperation, the first law to survival. Quote Link to comment
evilrooster Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 The weapons thread generated more ill-will than Mitsuko and Boblog put together (Mitsuko and Boblog together...now there's a thought to keep you awake at night!) Now let's all go out and find some caches! evilrooster -the email of the species is deadlier than the mail- Quote Link to comment
+Team StitchesOnQuilts Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Eric O'Connor: Where and when exactly have I slammed anyone emotionally? (Bassoon is asking for it, but I'll keep my mouth shut ) Ask anyone who took the time to write "Mitsuko" how they were treated. Well, I wasn't slammed, but I was sure gullible. I responded to "Mitsuko" like I would any other newbie, trying to be helpful and friendly. Now I feel really stupid, and will probably think twice before helping a new person, wondering if it's another "Mitsuko". I have been trying to be a good sport about the whole thing, and just keep my mouth shut, but I don't think that you can say that everyone was treated well. I, for one, do not feel that great about the whole thing. I like jokes, I like people with a sense of humor: I just don't like being made a fool of. Shannah Quote Link to comment
Eric O'Connor Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Team StitchesOnQuilts:I responded to "Mitsuko" like I would any other newbie, trying to be helpful and friendly. Now I feel really stupid, and will probably think twice before helping a new person, wondering if it's another "Mitsuko". I'd hate to think that you'd take things that far. Many people read your response, and a few will use that information on some level. Many more people read these forums than post so you can be assured that your time was far from wasted. Now, in response to you feeling foolish... That's the reason I never intended to "come clean". I was going to have her fade away, she was already barely posting in the second week. I was hoping that people would adhere to Jeremy's previously stated wishes and take the discussion elsewhere. When that wasn't happening, I came clean only to ask that further discussion not take place here. I started a thread about Mitsuko in alt.rec.geocaching shortly after that post. I'd also like to take this moment to ask that anyone who has, or is conteplating the use of fictional identities to re-think and dismiss the idea. The only reason Mitsuko was amusing to anyone at all, on any level, was that many people were not expecting it. These forums need to be like Ivory soap. 99 44/100 pure. That goes double for "real" posters who don't think before hitting send. You may think it's just text on a monitor, but your words might have more impact than you intended. Solohiker once wrote: "Have you guys seen pictures posted by geocachers? We are not an attractive group. Who wants a box full of pictures of ugly people?" Mitsuko was my response to his perspective. Quote Link to comment
+Wander Lost Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Team StitchesOnQuilts: I responded to "Mitsuko" like I would any other newbie, trying to be helpful and friendly. Now I feel really stupid, and will probably think twice before helping a new person, wondering if it's another "Mitsuko". Shannah I agree! I find myself questioning if a person is a Troll or not before I post a reply. I'll look at their number of posts and if it is low I'll check their profile out. If the profile has just the basic info and shows 0 finds, I'll also think twice about responding now. I don't like distrusting someone I've never met like that. But I also don't want to be a pawn in a troll war either. Quote Link to comment
+misguided one Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Team StitchesOnQuilts: Well, I wasn't slammed, but I was sure gullible. I responded to "Mitsuko" like I would any other newbie, trying to be helpful and friendly. Now I feel really stupid, and will probably think twice before helping a new person, wondering if it's another "Mitsuko". I have been trying to be a good sport about the whole thing, and just keep my mouth shut, but I don't think that you can say that everyone was treated well. I, for one, do not feel that great about the whole thing. I like jokes, I like people with a sense of humor: I just don't like being made a fool of. Shannah Why on earth should you feel bad about trying to help others? Does it really matter if there is a fictional character or a real person asking a question? If you think you have information/knowledge that might help someone, then you should offer it. I was trying to explain a similar circumstance to my 5 yr. old the other day, "there will always be people who try to fool you or take advantage of you, the trick is not to let them see you get upset." Laugh about it, get over it, then try to help the next person who asks a question. Quote Link to comment
+The GeoGadgets Team Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Misguided One:Why on earth should you feel bad about trying to help others? Does it really matter if there is a fictional character or a real person asking a question? If you think you have information/knowledge that might help someone, then you should offer it. I was trying to explain a similar circumstance to my 5 yr. old the other day, "there will always be people who try to fool you or take advantage of you, the trick is not to let them see you get upset." Laugh about it, get over it, then try to help the next person who asks a question. I agree. I am one of those people who assumes everyone is honest and innocent, giving them ample opportunity to prove themselves to the contrary, if contrary they are. If I assume that everyone is genuinely interested in a subject enough to type out a question (regardless of spelling, grammer or syntax), and if I then feel that I may have something to help or contribute, I will do so, with the knowledge that these forums are public. I also understand that for every one person who asks a question, there are ten or more people who are interested in the answer, but for whatever reason did not feel up to asking that question and that they are interested in the answer. By answering one person's query, I may help more than just one individual. I like to believe that all of my actions are like dropping pebbles in a puddle... they ripple outward and one should always be aware of the reactions their actions will cause across the puddle. I'm sorry that Seth! feels ambiguous about reading and getting involved in the forums. Besides the occasional silliness, there are hundreds of people contributing to these topics with an accumulation of years and many brain cells filled with knowledge and wisdom. I'm sure that even he, as brilliant as he may be, can learn something here, or at the very least, he could help others and teach us what he knows. Mitsuko was a short-lived and welcome diversion. May she rest in peace. BUT she, and her puppet master, do not and never have monopolized or manipulated these forums and it would be seriously unfair to make accusations to the contrary. Read, contribute, but always understand that any advice should be consumed with a few grains of salt-flavored common sense. ---------- Lori aka: RedwoodRed KF6VFI "I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations." GeoGadgets Team Website Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite How much red would a redwood red if a redwood could red wood? Quote Link to comment
+Dan_Edwards Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Seth!:I hadn't visited the forums for a while. Now I remember why. I come across threads like "weapons" or other threads where people shamelessly display their illiteracy and narrow minds. I was really surprised by the quality of posts in that thread up until the troll posts. I have enough experience in forums to realize at that point the topic was forever lost, and anything that people wrote past that point was just responding to garbage, and hence the reply would be garbage too. But up to that point, I recommend it; it was pretty thought provoking up to that point. Dan A = A Quote Link to comment
solohiker Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 I prefer a diverse discussion. Even though I label geocachers as kind of nerdy, I know that there is a variety of experiences and ideas among us. How much can you say about geocaching that hasn't already been said? Obviously the weapon's thread got out of hand, but there were some interesting and valid points made as well. I agree that the trolls need to go. The admin group here seems to have relaxed their gestapo editing, which I like, but fake posters need to be removed. Now, does anyone have a good recipe for beef jerky? Quote Link to comment
+bunkerdave Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 I can remember not too long ago when I had the forums open on my computer screen almost all day long. Since then, I have been far less interested in what is being said about geocaching. I would agree that for the most part, the forums are a great place for new entrants in this hobby to learn a lot in a short time, and to associate with others who enjoy it. I also found them to be a valuable source of information on software, GPS, and mapping, all of which are the real reason I got into caching in the first place. That said, I have probably posted 10 times, or less, since the new forums started up. The main reason for this is as has been stated; there really just isn't that much new being discussed. It is good to see new participants learning all the things that make the experience enjoyable, and most importantly, learning the etiquette that makes it possible for all of us to continue enjoying the sport well into the future. bunkerdave Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 Im right at 4 months old with the hobby and have really enjoyed reading and doing some posting in the forums. I asked newbie questions and sure appreciated the help. I guess i somehow missed some of Mitsuko's newbie help questions but im sure i would have tried to help her just as i would anyone else. Ok, im not sure exactly why Eric chose to do this, but it was interesting to see how it progressed. Being that i never tried to contact Mitsuko, i have no idea what was said in the correspondence back and forth in emails. This of course is where it could have really gotten out of hand. HEHE, now he has some leverage on some of ya'll i bet,,, It would be nice if everyone in the world was honest. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, i get hurt sometimes. Unfortunately its part of life! Just saying that im not gonna let any of this stop me from trying to help others if they ask. Hopefully they will be as honest with me as i am with them. If not, its not the end of the world! Quote Link to comment
+The Pootyheads Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 I'm going to risk annoying people with this non-geocaching question because I can't find the answer anywhere else. Geo Quest, where does that quote come from that you've used as your signature, "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently." I love it! I apologize for the interruption. Quote Link to comment
+Rusty & Libby Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 A lot of forums have a catagory they call something like "FOR FUN" and all the those wacky and witty chatters can go in there and create stupid topics and chat to their hearts content. I don't mind the regurgitated topics that will always happen as new people come in. A more dynamice FAQ would help that situation. What I dislike are all the people who seem to never reply to any topic in a serious manner, they just go on and on with their 'humorous' banter. You know who you are. I occasionally chuckle if I bother reading it but mostly I just move on to another thread once they get started. Give them their own area and try to keep things a bit more on topic. Rusty... Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page Quote Link to comment
irvingdog Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Seth!:I hadn't visited the forums for a while. Now I remember why. I come across threads like "weapons" or other threads where people shamelessly display their illiteracy and narrow minds. Dismayed, Seth! Am I then to assume that because I am one of the millions of Americans who owns a weapon that I'm illeterate and narrow minded? I was engaged in that conversation early, but departed soon after I recognized the folly of the dog chasing it's tail. Clearly, no minds would be changed, and trolls would emerge from the trees. But if folks chose to engage in civil, lawful dialogue, then, like some mean spirited lyrics, "if you don't like it, change the channel". Isn't that a liberal mantra? But I can't quite look you in the eyes to say this because of the angle with which you look down your nose. I'm so glad you're above it all. How is the view from your high horse? Ahhhh......the moist nose of a German Wirehaired Pointer! Quote Link to comment
+Rockdoctors Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 We do not represent the masses. Seth I agree. SOme people really do get a little carried away on these forums - just like any other forum for that matter. For our insanity we should realize that these forums are usually rehashed and bashed by the same individuals that have nothing else to do all day, for example the trolls. We do not represent the masses of geocachers out there. The majority of geocachers do not give a dadgum about the forums. They just enjoy geocaching. TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT Quote Link to comment
+wcgreen Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Rusty:A lot of forums have a catagory they call something like "FOR FUN" and all the those wacky and witty chatters can go in there and create stupid topics and chat to their hearts content. I don't mind the regurgitated topics that will always happen as new people come in. A more dynamice FAQ would help that situation. What I dislike are all the people who seem to never reply to any topic in a serious manner, they just go on and on with their 'humorous' banter. You know who you are. I occasionally chuckle if I bother reading it but mostly I just move on to another thread once they get started. Give them their own area and try to keep things a bit more on topic. IMO, there are plenty of places to "have fun" that do not take up space on these forums (how about alt.rec.geocaching? It seems to need traffic) I missed the Mitsuko contretemps thanks to vacation; had I helped a sock puppet, I would have resented that my time and effort was wasted on a fake. wcgreen -- Wendy Chatley Green wcgreen@eudoramail.com Quote Link to comment
irvingdog Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 And yet do Rock Doctor or Seth! have the ability to see their own hypocrasy, displayed by their very own posts? Oh well, I guess you guys "have nothing better to do". This is fun! Ahhhh......the moist nose of a German Wirehaired Pointer! Quote Link to comment
+Rockdoctors Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Irvingdog:And yet do Rock Doctor or Seth! have the ability to see their own hypocrasy, displayed by their very own posts? Oh well, I guess you guys "have nothing better to do". This is fun! Ahhhh......the moist nose of a German Wirehaired Pointer! Oh look, another smartass comment by Irvingdog In response to this(why am I wasting my time). I do enjoy reading the forums. And posting. SOme topics are great, but ultimately lead up to a level of stupid sarcasm which tends to kill the threads much like the one you just posted. People don't get it. Trying to be too funnyor crass doesn't get you anywhere. THere are certain individuals on these forums that tend to post crap responses that lead the original post down some rediculous path. Which, inevidably has nothing to do with the original post. TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT Quote Link to comment
+Gimpy Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Maybe I'm too mellow. I've been on these boards pretty much every day since March, 2001. I've had no problem jumping to another thread if the one I'm reading becomes uninteresting or too far off topic. It may get a little annoying at times, but I'm not being forced to read anything I choose not too. On occasion, it can actually be a little humorous where some threads go. Either way, I read what I choose to read. "Gimpy" Quote Link to comment
+Rockdoctors Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 It doesn't matter which thread you read, they are all killed by sarcasm, so choose as you will. I don't care. Its annoying. TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT Quote Link to comment
+Gimpy Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 I, in no way, am promoting the off topic rambling. But on whom would we put the job of preventing it, if that's even possible.If you go back in the general forums here, to a legit thread I started, as to the usefullness of "cache cameras". I really didn't get too many responses to the actual question. But hey. What are you going to do. There is still far more usefull info on these boards than annoying stuff, so I just roll with it. At least you don't see too many flame wars. I'd rather tune in on a little humor than name calling & stuff like that. I think the admins do a pretty good job of keeping a lid on things. I can't say as I've ever come to the boards & gone away annoyed. "Gimpy" Quote Link to comment
irvingdog Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Without me even "going off topic". You don't "give a dadgum about the forums" and yet when called on the carpet, have the nerve to refer to my statements as being "smartass". Pretty commited to your posts then, aren't you? And no, I'm not being a troll. I'm just on the other side of the posters opinion. My comments were never trying to hijack or kill this thread. Quite to the contrary. It seems likely that because my opinion differs from yours, it makes it easy to whip you up and upset you. I won't apologize for that. And "nothing better to do all day"? 90 posts since June 30th 2002 is pretty impressive! You've had your fun and chatted your chats. Why is someone inferior to you if they haven't been engaged in the forums for as long or actively as yourselves? There is no such thing as a stupid question. But as for stupid arrogance....well, "trust me. I know what the hell I'm talking about". It can be pretty insufferable. Grow up! Read posts if you'd like, post if you'd like, and I suppose, whine if you'd like. but be prepared to be identified as a whiner. Ahhhh......the moist nose of a German Wirehaired Pointer! [This message was edited by Irvingdog on August 01, 2002 at 12:48 PM.] [This message was edited by Irvingdog on August 01, 2002 at 12:49 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Actually, I'm the smartass. Magicman was too but I can't find him anymore...... ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song, Or wisdom for a dance in the street................. Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Rockdoctors:sarcasm, so choose as you will. I don't care. Its annoying. Preperation, the first law to survival. Quote Link to comment
+KD7MXI Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 I GET CONSTANTLY HARASSED BY A SMALL NUMBER OF USERS WHO HAVE NOTHIN BETTER TO DO BUT JUDGE ME GEOCACHING --- It isn't about the treasure --- It is about the adventure!!! Quote Link to comment
+KD7MXI Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 THEY EVEN CALL ME A TROLL ---IM NOT A TROLL-- GEOCACHING --- It isn't about the treasure --- It is about the adventure!!! Quote Link to comment
irvingdog Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Who and what are you talking about KD7MXI??? This looks like your first contribution to this conversation, and I don't recall anyone referring you. Ahhhh......the moist nose of a German Wirehaired Pointer! Quote Link to comment
Cape Cod Cacher Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 I go alot easier on the forum than I used to, but I still cruise through. Jeremy posted a link to this site on a different topic a couple days ago, I HIGHLY suggest everybody that has replied to this thread look in a mirror when you visit the site. http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html Quote Link to comment
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