+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 This is a virtual I submited that was immediately archived. Geocaching I got the old "coffee table" criteria not met and that I should at "least place a microcache". I e-mailed with explanations and never got a second e-mail. BTW, it wasn't Jeremy who archived it. Quote Link to comment
+Dersu Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 can't view, can't vote! Can not view cache page, the URL you have redirects my browser to the HIDE & SEEK search page. Can you cut and paste your info here? I have flouted the wild, I have followed its lure, fearless. familar, alone; yet the wild must win, and a day will come when I shall be overthrown. By: Robert Service Quote Link to comment
+Rygel Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Same here as Dersu. Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 I copied the URL from my cache page, but it takes you to the "Hide and Seek a Cache" page, right? It did that to me a few days ago too. It seems like it's a cycle; it works, it doesn't, it works, etc. Maybe if I log out and back in. Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 I copied the URL from my cache page, but it takes you to the "Hide and Seek a Cache" page, right? It did that to me a few days ago too. It seems like it's a cycle; it works, it doesn't, it works, etc. Maybe if I log out and back in. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 It's not a cycle. If you as the owner access it from the right spot, you can see the cache. Nobody else can because it hasn't been approved. On occasion (maybe this is the cyle) you as the owner will access it from the wrong link and get the hide and seek page. You will have to cut and paste to get real opinions. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Roadster Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 If it's not approved only the one who submitted it will be the only one to be able to view it. No one is listening until you make a mistake. Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 Does that mean that I'm the only one who can view it? Anyway the waypoint is GCE496. Maybe you can access it that way. thanks Quote Link to comment
+Mr. Snazz Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Why can't you people just hide a frickin BOX? Quote Link to comment
+Roadster Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I took way to long to submit that last post LOL No one is listening until you make a mistake. Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 N 30° 30.464 W 097° 40.700 (WGS84) UTM: 14R E 626823 N 3375791 or convert to NAD27 at Jeeep.com also download nearest placenames. Need help? Read about EasyGPS In Texas, United States [state map] Hidden: 3/14/2003 Use waypoint: GCE496 (what's this?) Make this page print-friendly (no logs) Note:To use the services of geocaching.com, you must agree to the terms and conditions in our disclaimer. (ratings out of 5 stars. 1 is easiest, 5 is hardest) Difficulty: Terrain: This will be my last virtual for a while, I promise. Enough with the easy stuff. Something terrible happened here early in the 20th century. To claim your find, please e-mail me the answers to the following questions. 1. What happened here? 2. What year did it occur? 3. Whose name is the third on on the list and where was he from? 4. What year was this sign put up? If you're correct in answering, I'll tell you what state law this prompted that is still in effect today. Additional Hints (Decrypt) Decryption Key A|B|C|D|E|F|G|H|I|J|K|L|M ------------------------- N|O|P|Q|R|S|T|U|V|W|X|Y|Z (letter above equals below, and vice versa) Vg'f evtug bhg va gur bcra. Find... ...other caches hidden or found by this user ...nearby caches ...nearby placenames ...nearby benchmarks For online maps... MapQuest Maps (BEST) Topo Zone - topographical maps (Site uses a different datum so coordinates may be off) Microsoft Terra Server - satellite photos Yahoo! Maps Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 How do you hide a box (fricking or otherwise)in a mown, vacant lot? Quote Link to comment
+Mr. Snazz Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Centex Trekker:How do you hide a box (fricking or otherwise)in a mown, vacant lot? YOU DON'T. Hide a box somewhere that you can hide a box. That way, you won't have to cry when your empty-lot "virtual" cache doesn't get approved. Quote Link to comment
+Dersu Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Now, tell us the story. Tell us about the cache, what, when, where, why and how. I have flouted the wild, I have followed its lure, fearless. familar, alone; yet the wild must win, and a day will come when I shall be overthrown. By: Robert Service Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 If I told you the story, it would be a spoiler. Anyway, there was a terrible accident before the Great Depression that prompted the State of Texas to enact a law so this would not happen again. It'a a life saving measure. If I told you any more I'd give too much away. I just wanted to inform the locals because so many of them are not from here. I'd bet that not a lot of locals are awre of this either. Quote Link to comment
+BrownMule & Jackrabbit Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 If I were an approver and got your cache description just the way it was written, the answer would be and easy no. Face it, this game is about hiding something and if you find a spot where you can't hide anything and it is of great interest and of outstanding character then you can try the virtual route. I don't see any reason why you can't hide something and I sure don't see anything that makes this spot outstanding. The spot may meet the criteria but it does not show in your cache description. So tell us more if there is more. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers. Quote Link to comment
+Dersu Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 No, but what I did in a place where I could not hide a cache was to hide one nearby and direct the finders attention to the nearby waterfall that I wanted them to see and hear. Read my cache info. I did not even consider a virtual, have not found one yet either. Course I never lost one! I have flouted the wild, I have followed its lure, fearless. familar, alone; yet the wild must win, and a day will come when I shall be overthrown. By: Robert Service Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I spent this afternoon changing a fairly popular virtual cache of mine into an offset. The cache page still leads them to the spot (a grave marker) but then they have to do a little compass work to find the actual box. Is there any chance you could do the same with this marker? Bret "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44 Quote Link to comment
+Squirrel Nut & Beersnob Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Bingo... I think I have what it is. Definately a no. Though the list of names might be harder to look up, after finding the location, a bit of deductive reasoning on what could cause a tragedy there, and a little online searching I came up with something. I think the year is 1927. Involving the rr just south of the vacant lot. I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Is there any chance most/part of the info you're looking for can be found on THIS page? I did a quick google search based on a few keywords on your cache page and came up with this. Bret "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44 Quote Link to comment
+Squirrel Nut & Beersnob Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 CYBret - If the entry I read there is the one you were thinking of, it's the wrong century, and I don't know how many would call it a 'tragedy' I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is Quote Link to comment
+CYBret Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Well, I'm pretty sure that Same wasn't too happy about it! "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44 Quote Link to comment
+georgeandmary Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Why don't you take a little bit of the info and use use it as part of the coordinates for a real cache. All it takes is a little mirco container and you'll have an approved cache. Even a seemingly empty lot can turn into a hiding spot for a cache. Are there chain link fences near by? Caps come off fences, and caches can fit. Fake bicks, fake rocks etc etc. george Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more. Quote Link to comment
+Gloom Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I don't know all the circumstances to this cache, and neither do the approvers, but I don't see why this shouldn't be a virtual. I know a lot of you say to make an offset or a micro or a blah blah blah. There are some places that just can not be made into a real cache for various reasons. I have one in the parking lot of a local REI (no comercial ties, in fact you don't even need to set foot in the REI parking lot to log it). There is a memorial there to an employee who died. There is really no physical way to place a real cache at this location, nor would an offset cache be practical. How would you tie another location into this one? I know now that this would not be approved these days, but I don't see why not. A lot of you see virtuals as a waste of bandwidth, but they are not. I think of them as a good learning tool for newbies to learn how to use their GPS in a setting that doesn't require quite the same comitment as a regular cache. I imagine a newbie facing the decision of hiking a half mile (or more) through a heavily wooded park just to find out if s/he likes caching (or can even use the GPS correctly) or finding a virtual that's not that far from the parking lot and see if they can find it. I know this is true by the amount of people with only 1 find that log my cache and tell me what a good time they had finding their first. I think that if we do away with easy virtuals like this then maybe a lot of people won't take the first step into caching. Ask yourself how you would've felt way back when you did your first cache if you couldn't have found it. Or you found a traditional cache that was full of McTrash or other garbage. Do you think you would have continued caching? Probably not. I think a few people out there may be intimidated by traditional caches as their first and an easy virtual is a great stepping stone. My point is that everyone's thoughts of a good cache are different. I agree that caches should be of a unique/interesting nature and that each approver has their own opinion of what that is, but it should be pretty clear from the (limited) cache description that A) the cache poster thinks this is an interesting place and the city/state what ever must also if this place has plaques or monuments or something else to find the answers to the questions. There must be some sort of historical significance to it for that to happen. Therefore, it satisfies the requirements listed in the guidelines. No, maybe not enough to make a coffee table book out of it, but then that is only a suggestion. I know that my cache wouldn't be approved now and I find that sad given the number of finds it has and the number of those that are newbies just getting started. go ahead and flame... ---- Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together. [This message was edited by Gloom on March 21, 2003 at 04:31 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+Gloom Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I tried to add this to my previous post, but it wouldn't show up, so here it is. Added note: I do think that guidelines for virtuals were a good thing as there were getting out of hand. But I think the approvers are going overboard on disapproving all types of caches these days. What is interesting and novel to one person certainly may not be another. That said, I think we do have a good system for protesting (if under used), that being the forums. When you get disapproved you should post it to the forums, not whine, just post and get the feelings of the group in general. Also, I would think that some discretion in replying to polls should be used. Some of you are dead set against ANY vitural and therefor are biased. If this describes you, please don't vote as it skews the results for people who actual do like virtuals. Again, flame away... ---- Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together. Quote Link to comment
+BrownMule & Jackrabbit Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gloom:I don't know all the circumstances to this cache, and neither do the approvers, but I don't see why this shouldn't be a virtual. My point is that everyone's thoughts of a good cache are different. I agree that caches should be of a unique/interesting nature and that each approver has their own opinion of what that is, but it should be pretty clear from the (limited) cache description that A) the cache poster thinks this is an interesting place and the city/state what ever must also if this place has plaques or monuments or something else to find the answers to the questions. There must be some sort of historical significance to it for that to happen. Therefore, it satisfies the requirements listed in the guidelines. No, maybe not enough to make a coffee table book out of it, but then that is only a suggestion. go ahead and flame... Not going to Flame you because everybody is entitled to their opinion and that should be respected. However I don't agree with you. I may agree that some virtuals are kind of neat but I was trying to give opinions on how to get a cache approved. Not what would be a neat cache or if it was my opinion if the virtual was worthy. The guidelines are the guidelines and I was just trying to help someone with how to get things approved under the current guidelines. The bottom line is hide something or show why you can't. _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers. Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Coordinates for history lessons should take a person to a library. I am serious! Virtuals are very subjective! And quote: "This will be my last virtual for a while, I promise. Enough with the easy stuff." I dunno, since you are asking for feedback, I say sorry, not approved. And NOT because what you are attempting to share is irrelevant, or uninteresting. It very well could be!! It might even be something I would be interested in. But it isn't substantial enough to be a *cache* as we know it. Someone ought to start a new site for these types of trivia/historical/post a picture with your GPS or answer some questions please caches. You could opt to incorporate the *site* into an offset/puzzle cache. Come on folks, get creative. This is a genuine suggestion others have made as well. Your *virtual* site could become part of a *physical cache*, and would be potentially outstanding. Why does every banner and statue have to become a virtual geocache? I think it is prudent that the guidelines and approvals be tightened. And by doing so, improve the overall impact of geocaching on a lethargic world. Respectfully, canadazuuk [This message was edited by canadazuuk on March 21, 2003 at 06:43 PM.] Quote Link to comment
Northern-Lights Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I just got a cache approved today....guess what,,,I submitted it today also!! The first stage is a POW/MIA memorial I wanted to include people in. So, I just had them count the names and used that in the coordinates to the first leg of a multi-cache. In your case, you could put some of the info you wanted to share in the description, but still use the marker to come up with some kind of clue to the "cache". There is a lot of backlash against virturals right now. I don't personally care for them, but I rather they just be moved to another page instead of cluttering up my search page with meaningless junk. (Purely my description...) Once in awhile I just go do a bunch of them to get them off my search page. Although I respect others interest in them....just rather they have their own page....sorta like benchmarks. If you can't make it work any other way...I guess you'll just have to live with the knowledge that you know the "inside" scoop. We're going on a treasure hunt...we're not quite sure just where...but with our trusty GPS, we'll find a cache stashed there!! By Daughter Cheryl [This message was edited by Northern-Lights on March 21, 2003 at 07:44 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I do not understand the resistance to virtual caches. I'm at a loss to explain why some individuals are so adamant about virtuals being relegated to some other site, or even done away with altogether. I know to some there should be some kind of inner sanctum of caching or something. No type of corruption or pollution as represented by those types of caches where no "box" is involved. I however look at things a whole lot differently. To me each and every type of cache has it's place. I like traditional caches best, no doubt, but I like virtuals as well, and even a few of the locationless have been quite fun to do. That is what I'm in this for, the fun of it. I think some caches are lame, and some of each type fit that category. While the virtuals and locationless have increasingly stringent standards they have to meet, any putz with a tupperware container or an ammo box can get a cache approved with a bare minimum of effort. A "drive-by" traditional cache that you can "find" with barely a need to get out of your vehicle has as much integrity as a virtual made from a fire hydrant in front of someone's house!! I've put out traditional caches, and you have to be dedicated to get to them and find them, they are NOT easy. I have created a few virtuals, and truthfully I do not know if they are of any interest to anyone but me, but I like them a lot. I have not created any locationless, but to tell the truth again, others beat me to the only ideas I thought were worthwhile to put my name on. I believe each has it's place, and each has it's fans, but none is sacred or free from abuse. The only cure is to either go to the location of each and every cache before you approve it, or, the placers of each type of cache should be very careful to put out caches that meet the criteria (reasonable criteria), and add something to the sport. Putting out caches, of any type, just to put out caches is not constructive. Complaining about caches, of any type, just to complain, is also not constructive. So, enough of that, I have to go to bed so I can be at my Sargent 4X4 cache by noon so it will be low tide. Need to check on it and do cache maintenance. Also hope to put out another cache in a new container I found at Colonel Bubby's army surplus store in Galveston. It looks like a mortar round tube but it's an old map container with a sealing top. Hopefully it turns out to be good for a cache. Maybe in the Freeport area....heheheh. Get your Jeeps ready folks... Hmmmm, but where am I going put the German Army butter dish container..... "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 It looks like most of you disagree with me. So be it. I humbly submit to your superior wisdom. What do I know? I'm just a newbie trying to educate the ignorant masses; ie., local. You might as well say newbies can't place any caches for the first 2 or 3 months after they sign up so they won't make any mistakes. What is the point of a virtual if TPTB won't let you place it and everyone is against it? Might as well do away with the category if it's going to take an act of Congress to get approved. I also posted it on Navicache where it got approved in a matter of hours. Quote Link to comment
+BrownMule & Jackrabbit Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Breaktrack:I do not understand the resistance to virtual caches. I'm at a loss to explain why some individuals are so adamant about virtuals being relegated to some other site, or even done away with altogether. I know to some there should be some kind of inner sanctum of caching or something. No type of corruption or pollution as represented by those types of caches where no "box" is involved. I however look at things a whole lot differently. To me each and every type of cache has it's place. I would analogize it like this. What if you joined a bird watching organization because you just loved to bird watch and take field trips to find and view birds. One day a member of the club suggests that they would like to include hunts to view wild pigs and another suggests the group should branch out and have outings for viewing bear and then finally someone suggests that the group should have trips to view all wildlife. So now you have the bird watchers, the pig watchers, the bear watchers and those who watch everything and at the meetings no one can agree on what the field trip for next week will go to watch and the fighting starts. So the Bird watchers decide to break off and start there own club,etc..etc...I guess what I am suggesting is that maybe if you don't like to bird watch you should start a pig watchers group. Just my .02 _________________________________________________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers. Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrownMule:I would analogize it like this. What if you joined a bird watching organization because you just loved to bird watch and take field trips to find and view birds. One day a member of the club suggests that they would like to include hunts to view wild pigs and another suggests the group should branch out and have outings for viewing bear and then finally someone suggests that the group should have trips to view all wildlife. So now you have the bird watchers, the pig watchers, the bear watchers and those who watch everything and at the meetings no one can agree on what the field trip for next week will go to watch and the fighting starts. So the Bird watchers decide to break off and start there own club,etc..etc...I guess what I am suggesting is that maybe if you don't like to bird watch you should start a pig watchers group. Just my .02 Hmmm, I see your point, but there is a fundamental flaw. In this club you can go watch whichever type of animal you want, any time you want, or none at all if you want... you see? No one is making anyone hunt any particular type of cache and all types are listed so they are convenient to all. Saying virtuals and such should have their own page like benchmarks is not analogous to watching different types of birds, bears, pigs, or even strippers... (hehehe, had to lighten it up a bit...) I understand there are different types of caches, but I've hunted each type and find no real difference in my enjoyment level if the cache is well done; and no difference in my frustration level if it's lame, no matter the type!! So individuals who say they just wish a certain type of cache wouldn't "clutter up" their search pages is not justification for them to be moved into a category like benchmarks. I happen to like the arrangement the way it is, but my opnion carries little or no weight in how things will be done, and I understand that. I want to compliment you on the reasonableness of your arguement however, it is a pleasure to converse in this manner... You know, the benchmark thing keeps coming up so much that I just may have to go hunt a few of the darn things...LOL. "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
+RichardMoore Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Just so you know where I stand on 'virtual caches', I prefer traditional, but will not hesitate to get a virtual. There aren't that many caches around here that I can be picky. But I have two questions: Could it have been denied because of the 'something terrible happened' description? After all this is a family hobby, how would small children react? Why was Gloom's 'dead employee in a parking lot' cache approved? It seems that this doesn't meet the requirements for a virtual. RichardMoore Today's date would be easier to remember if they didn't change it every day. Quote Link to comment
+Nurse Dave Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Breaktrack: In this club you can go watch whichever type of animal you want, any time you want, or none at all if you want... you see? No one is making anyone hunt any particular type of cache and all types are listed so they are convenient to all. But the site site started as hide a box and then find the box. Now there is hide nothing, go look at a sign (virtuals), and go find this item and let me know where it is (locationless). I think what was trying to be said is there is a basic type of cache and now people are wanting to do things that were not originally part of geocaching. At what point is it not geocaching, or as long as we are outside looking at something is it geocaching. No wait, I did a cache I had to log inside. ---Real men cache in shorts. Quote Link to comment
+Kodak's4 Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Centex Trekker:How do you hide a box (fricking or otherwise)in a mown, vacant lot? These containers (Bison Belt Capsules are smaller than a AA battery. They come in a variety of colors, and can be hidden inside fenceposts, under benches, inside signposts. Think of all the possiblities - affixed to a tree branch, suspended from a strand of nylon monofilament, the possiblities are limited only by your imagination. And there's plenty of room inside for a logsheet, rolled up scroll style. Quote Link to comment
Northern-Lights Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 After re-reading my post (again), I thought I'd clarify my thoughts. I don't particularly enjoy virtuals, but realize some people find them interesting and it does allow some people who cannot tromp through the woods to get out and find things that may be of interest. My real aggravation is that I live in a history rich area, and there are so many virtuals around, sometimes it becomes frustraing to sort through them all to get to the regular caches. I'd just like to see them treated like a benchmark, and have their own desiganated area. Then, we could go to whatever area that interests us and it would be more convienant. However, that being said, I'm not complaining....I can still do it. If this was a perfect world, I sure wouldn't be allowed as I'm not perfect either....just trying to be......lol. We're going on a treasure hunt...we're not quite sure just where...but with our trusty GPS, we'll find a cache stashed there!! By Daughter Cheryl Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrownMule:I would analogize it like this. What if you joined a bird watching organization because you just loved to bird watch and take field trips to find and view birds. One day a member of the club suggests that they would like to include hunts to view... ...pictures of birds in the library, or statues of birds somewhere. Wouldn't that be a totally lame idea? Why waste your time looking for fake birds when there are plenty of real ones around? Why look for fake (virtual) caches when there are plenty of real ones around? Quote Link to comment
+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 quote: Ugh Why can't you people just hide a frickin BOX? Cause then you'd whine about the black plastic bag it was hidden in. quote: Why look for fake (virtual) caches when there are plenty of real ones around? Because so many of the "real" ones are lame while so many virtuals take you to a place of real interest. I hear voices.....and they don't like you! Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 I see TPTB haven't posted their opinion. It looks like most of you would vote against my cache. A lot of you had great suggestions for modifying it, but missed the point of the exercise. The cache is a VIRTUAL! I was asking for people's opinions on whether this qualified as a virtual, not a virtual/offset or virtual/multi, or a virtual/micro. It doesn't say in the guidelines that a virtual has to lead somewhere else or be a microcache or anything. That would make it something it's not. If I had wanted to place a regular cache, I would have done so. If you don't like virtuals, don't do them or place them. A lot of people DO like them. Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 quote: quote: Why look for fake (virtual) caches when there are plenty of real ones around? Because so many of the "real" ones are lame while so many virtuals take you to a place of real interest. That's what waypoint.com is for. "Look, here's a statue, let's mark a waypoint and share its location." Most 'virtual' caches could be found with mapquest.com and not a GPS. Traditional caches are meant to be hunted with a GPSr. Quote Link to comment
+The Good Shepherds Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Could a physical cache be reasonably placed anywhere within a 0.1 mile radius of the site? If "yes", the cache shouldn't be a virtual. If "no", then I think you have a water-tight case for it being a valid cache. Quote Link to comment
+Squirrel Nut & Beersnob Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Personally, if what I found was actually the terrible event commemorated by the cache, I don't really know how much 'public interest' the cache would have. I don't mind virtuals, the one I've actually done so far was pretty cool (M cubed Museum), but if I were an approver, I would wonder whether that particular virtual would be a valid spot of interest. To a few, maybe. I can see something commemorating a tragic event being acceptable if it's something like a memorial to those lost at war, etc. Maybe something dedicated to the Titanic. Or the supposed spot where mrs. O'Leary's cow kicked over the lantern and burned down Chicago. I know these are a lot more publicly known than what you've chosen, but you asked our opinion, and this is mine. I agree that it may be an important event for the state of Texas, but what it actually contributes to geocaching, I don't really know. I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by The Good Shepherds:Could a physical cache be reasonably placed anywhere within a 0.1 mile radius of the site? If "yes", the cache shouldn't be a virtual. If "no", then I think you have a water-tight case for it being a valid cache. Could you find the cache without using a GPSr? If yes, it shouldn't be a cache - of any type. If no, There should be a container. If there is no container, it is nothing more than a waypoint. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 if you don't like 'em, don't find 'em. i like 'em sometimes. sometimes i'm in the mood to find a box. sometimes i'm in the mood to go see something i've never seen before. i'd use something like waypoint.com, but i really like this central location.i'm not averse to putting these things in their own category, but i'd hate to see them disappear. i'm more interested in a quirky virt than a tupperware under a nondescript tree, but i'll go look for both. bottom line for me is i just like to go out and find stuff. it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six. Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:Could you find the cache without using a GPSr? If yes, it shouldn't be a cache - of any type. I beg to differ. I've found well over 200 traditional caches and several multicaches without a GPSr, just using topo maps or aerial photos. There have also been several virtuals that I DID need my GPSr to find. Whether or not a cache can be found without a GPSr is irrelevant. What is relevant is that there hasn't been nearly enough information provided to tell if this is a good candidate for a virtual cache or not, which is probably why it wasn't approved. Quote Link to comment
+Gloom Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by RichardMoore:Why was Gloom's 'dead employee in a parking lot' cache approved? It seems that this doesn't meet the requirements for a virtual. It was approved before the new restrictions. Besides, it does fit the requirements for a virtual. Other than not being coffee table book material (again, that is a suggestion, not a requirement) there is nothing that doesn't fit the requirements. It is: 1) Permanent Physical Location 2) Of Interest to others (read the logs, again what is of interest to one person may not be to another) 3) Not Commercial 4) geographically dispersed. The closest cache is a multi at 0.9 miles 5) Has a question about the location 6 and 7 are not requirements but suggestions. Tell me now, why it should not be a virtual? It fits every one of the requirements listed in the Cache Listing Requirements. And to get back to the original topic, Centex Trekker's virtual also seems to fit all of those requirements, yet was not approved. ---- Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together. Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 The guidelines as they are written are not very good. It would seem that any historical marker or building cornerstone could be made virtual cache. If the marker can be used as an offset to a physical cache why not do that. You would still get people to find out about whatever it is you think is interesting. Here's my interpretation and comments on the guidelines. 1) A cache must be a physical object that can be referenced through latitude and longitude coordinates. Not just permanent or semi-permanent. There must be something you find - a sign, a marker, etc. Not a park or a building. It would make the virtual cache better if the object is something that you need to search for (and not an obvious historical marker). 2) A cache must be novel, of interest to other players, and have a special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets it apart from everyday subjects. This is the "coffee table" book requirement. This should be clarified - somebody though it was interesting enough to put a plaque or marker. But should everything with a plaque or marker qualify? 3) Virtual caches are not commercial This may eliminate some good virtual caches - There is a locationless cache to find "firsts" eg. first McDonalds, first Radio Shack, What if a realy interesting event occured here. Of course, the cache should be the plaque or sign commemorating the event - not the store where it took place. I'm thinking of a virtual cache where you would have to ready the newspaper stories on the wallpaper at Subway [] 4) Virtual caches should be geographically dispersed. New postings which are within 0.1 mile of an existing cache will generally not be approved, unless the poster provides a compelling rationale. I have a virtual I've been thinking about submitting because it is on a trail between two other caches. Several people have unnecessarily bushwacked up a steep hill to go from one to the other because they don't know about this trail. I think its ok because it is .4 miles from each of the other caches. 5) The cache has one or more questions about the location that should require going to the location and not being able to look up on the web or in the library. Like Squirrel Nut, I was able to find the answers to the first two questions online at the Round Rock website. I think with a little more work I could have found a list of names and assumed that the names on the marker are in alphabetic order. The last question is what a lot of virtual caches end up asking for as this probably requires visit the marker. Guideline 6) suggests that if there are no questions you could require a photo (usually with your GPSr showing) to verify you found the cache. In any event, the find must be verifiable. 7) Requires that the owner maintain the cache, that is to say, the owner will check at least once a month that the cache is still there as well as respond to inquiries about the cache. This may also eliminate some good virtual caches that are not in easy to get to urban areas, since who wants to give up one day a month to trek out to some location in the wilderness. Rules against placing physical caches in National Parks and in wilderness areas make these prime locations for virtual caches and I assume that many get approved even though the owner may only be able to check once or twice a year. There was also another thread suggesting that vistors from out of town might want to place virtual instead of physical caches. This requirement does show that just because a cache is virtual doesn't mean that it doesn't have to be maintained. Quote Link to comment
+Centex Trekker Posted April 4, 2003 Author Share Posted April 4, 2003 Hey, Tozainamboku, what happened to requirement 6? You went from 5 to 7. I believe I meet all the requirements foe a virtual, but if TPTB are absolutely determined to undermine virtuals so, then I think I could turn this into a microcache. Quote Link to comment
+David Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Breaktrack:I do not understand the resistance to virtual caches. I'm at a loss to explain why some individuals are so adamant about virtuals being relegated to some other site, or even done away with altogether. I can explain. You see, there are two recurring ideas, or thoughts, or arguements, or whatever you call them, that come up on this forum. One is virtual (and locationless) caches, the other is bad trades in traditional caches. The reason the folks that always whine about virtuals and locationless caches do so, is because there's no box that they can go find, then whine about the trashy contents. I'll hunt anything I can get a day that I'm not working, that it's not raining, that I don't have a family obligation. I have about 75 caches found. Some are traditional, some are virtual, some are locationless. I have about 75 benchmarks found. Some are brass disks, some are church steeples, some are TV towers. I'll hunt anything that I can log. ps. Virtuals are good for nighttime hunting, too. Please send differing opinions here ---> ./ Quote Link to comment
+Confucius' Cat Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 I have found two caches recently that could have been hidden in practically any historical location: One is a flat listerine papers container, painted black and contains a 'log book' consisting of several small sheets of paper. This is magnetically attached to the back of the historical marker sign (underneath in this case where no one would normally look) Another is a small pill bottle, wedged between the sign and the metal sign post. Although I much prefer 'real' caches (those that contain trinkets), an instance like yours could very well merit a creative 'log book' cache like this. Be creative. You can also use your virtual as a place to find clues to a 'real' cache. Caint never did nothing. GDAE, Dave Quote Link to comment
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