Moratorium on locationless caches ???

1.3k · August 9, 2003

Jeremy wrote on February 19 2003:

>Thanks for everyone's votes. I have suspended all new locationless caches until the >April/May timeframe, when a better way of dealing with them will be in place. Thanks for >everyone's votes. This will greatly help us get the project completed faster.

>

>Jeremy Irish

We are now in August, so is there any news about this subject ???

August 9, 2003

That would seem like a reasonable request, but then again it also seemed reasonable that the vote would actually mean something. I guess there was another option that didn't appear in the poll, 'no time soon and don't bother asking'. Then again, he didn't say April/May of which year....

Of course, the moratorium could be lifted until somebody gets around to making whatever the mystery changes are, especially since the only people that requested a change seemed to be those who professed to have no interest in ever looking for them.

No reason to muddy the issue with reason or logic, I guess. Btw, I also believed 'We will be adding more features for premium users every month' when I paid my $30.

1.2k · August 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by gobucks:

No reason to muddy the issue with reason or logic, I guess. Btw, I also believed 'We will be adding more features for premium users every month' when I paid my $30.

gobucks, Id be happy to refund your money if you really feel that you were cheated!

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

1.2k · August 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lapaglia:

quote:
Originally posted by gobucks:

No reason to muddy the issue with reason or logic, I guess. Btw, I also believed 'We will be adding more features for premium users every month' when I paid my $30.

gobucks, Id be happy to refund your money if you really feel that you were cheated!

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

http://home.comcast.net/~michael.lapaglia/cache_new.jpg

C'mon Lap, I think he is just pointing out some inconsistancies. Of course if I could spell inconsistancies, I'd be much better off....LOL.

Hehehehe.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

1.7k · August 10, 2003

Yes I'd like to see the moratorium lifted soon.

I have 5 planned locationless caches I'd like to set out there before I forget which ones I want to do. They are quite nice and fit the *coffee table book* requirement.

If it's a question of help needed, I'm sure a lot of geocachers would be willing to volunteer their services.

August 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lapaglia:

gobucks, Id be happy to refund your money if you really feel that you were cheated!

Actually, I think my post was pretty clear about what I'm looking for - some accountability and straight answers.

38.2k · August 10, 2003

Yeah, I never considered placing a locationless cache, because I really don't care for them. Then I came up with the most incredibly brilliant, stupendous and interesting idea for a locationless cache, go to post it and find there is a moritorium. Nuts!

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

24.7k · August 10, 2003

Wow. I have no opinion on this topic. Excuse me while I go check my sanity.

2.7k · August 10, 2003

Those locationless Caches have been lost in the land of the NEW MAPS. Someday somebody will find the Treasure Map and let us all know what the locations are.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

August 10, 2003

I hope they're allowed again soon. I live in a very cache poor area, and they're a great help... And fun - and I've learnt a lot about this town doing them.

___________________________________

who's got the pig?

1.2k · August 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Breaktrack:

C'mon Lap, I think he is just pointing out some inconsistancies. Of course if I could spell inconsistancies, I'd be much better off....LOL.

Hehehehe.

http://www.texasgeocaching.com

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

I wasnt trying to flame him, I just figured that if he felt he had been lied to or cheated I'd help him out.

Anyone who had ever attempted a project knows that things do not always go at the speed you want them to. Perfect example would be Lotus 4.0. It didn't come out untill 2 years after the projected release date. Doot happens. It does no one any good to just complain about somnething they have no control over. TPTB are not going to be able to work any faster just because we complain more. The new features of the site will be done when they are done. Its that simple. All the Bi*ching in the world will not make it happen any faster.

My offer still stands

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

August 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lapaglia:

Anyone who had ever attempted a project knows that things do not always go at the speed you want them to. Perfect example would be Lotus 4.0. It didn't come out untill 2 years after the projected release date. Doot happens. It does no one any good to just complain about somnething they have no control over. TPTB are not going to be able to work any faster just because we complain more. The new features of the site will be done when they are done. Its that simple. All the Bi*ching in the world will not make it happen any faster.

I guess that 'anyone' doesn't apply to TPTB, who came up with the timeframe. Still doesn't answer why the moratorium can't be lifted since the timeframe is such a mystery.

Delays happen. Everyone understands that. It's the lack of information and the apparent change in priority that's the problem. Sure, there are more important things that need done, like designing new t-shirts and deciding whether a check mark or a tag best marks your own caches on the nearest cache page. Btw, it's not 'new features' that are the issue. It's getting back what was previously here, and promised to be returned. It's that simple.

Donate your $30 to your favorite charity if you feel you must part with it.

2.3k · August 10, 2003

I happen to enjoy the Locationless caches... They keep me always looking around at my surroundings and thinking...

Its not the same as hunting for a real cache, nor should it be. Its just a different wrinkle in the game.

That is what a lot of people have forgotten and get all caught up on making rules and trying to exert control. ITS JUST A GAME!

It is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable, not cause more stress... Got enough of that everywhere else in life!!

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

38.2k · August 10, 2003

quote:
I hope they're allowed again soon. I live in a very cache poor area, and they're a great help... And fun - and I've learnt a lot about this town doing them

I don't think you're quite aware of what a "locationless cache is". The existence of one won't help your "cache poor area". You are probably referring to Virtual Caches.

If you're concerned about your "cache poor area", place a bunch of caches and get the sport moving! It feeds on itself. The more caches placed, the more geocachers, which means even more caches placed!

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

1.2k · August 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by gobucks:

Delays happen. Everyone understands that. It's the lack of information and the apparent change in priority that's the problem. Sure, there are more important things that need done, like designing new t-shirts and deciding whether a check mark or a tag best marks your own caches on the nearest cache page. Btw, it's not 'new features' that are the issue. It's getting back what was previously here, and promised to be returned. It's that simple.

Donate your $30 to your favorite charity if you feel you must part with it.

and still we have smarta$$ attitude and sarcasm from you. You are missing the point. Take a chill pill and relax. It is ONLY a game!

BTW you were the one that said "'We will be adding more features for premium users every month' when I paid my $30." Seems you are making new features a point.

p.s. $30.00 donated to Wilderness on Wheels as you requested.

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

2.6k · August 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
I don't think you're quite aware of what a "locationless cache is". The existence of one won't help your "cache poor area". You are probably referring to Virtual Caches.

If you're concerned about your "cache poor area", place a bunch of caches and get the sport moving! It feeds on itself. The more caches placed, the more geocachers, which means even more caches placed!

I think he knows exactly what locationless caches are. Although I don't do them myself, I can see how they help the situations in cache poor areas: you get to continue this great hobby by being able to log locationless caches.

Of course placing more caches would help spreading the word and getting people to hide their own. That's what every eager cacher should do in cache poor areas. Anyway, team travel pig has already hidden 7 caches and is hosting an upcoming event. That's a pretty good ratio for a person who's found 27 caches (not counting the locationless ones). IMO, his statement and request are pretty understandable.

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

August 11, 2003

Thanks Divine

Geez Brian, I've done about 23 of them now, so I'm pretty confident I know what they are.

And they do help my area by expanding the possible number of caches that can be done locally...

Quite a few of us down here do them while we wait to get to 50 within a 100 mile radius.

And yes, we're putting in caches too... Just taking time to make sure they're well placed and interesting. But when only two people are putting in new ones, it takes time - between two of us we've added 11 over the last couple of months. And perhaps that's still not much by some standards...

A little check of the user stats before you assume people don't have a clue

___________________________________

who's got the pig?

August 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lapaglia:

and still we have smarta$$ attitude and sarcasm from you. You are missing the point. Take a chill pill and relax. It is ONLY a game!

BTW you were the one that said "'We will be adding more features for premium users every month' when I paid my $30." Seems you are making new features a point.

p.s. $30.00 donated to Wilderness on Wheels as you requested.

Not missing your point at all. It's just that I was hoping that you would address the issues as well as supply smarta$$ attitude and sarcasm. At least the charity got some benefit if no one else here did.

My point about the new features is about accountability. I'm sure that there are people who read the description of the premium membership and believe that they will get new features every month. Maybe you could go clue them in with your special brand of helpfulness. Sorry that you missed my point. It is only a game. It's just that I would like to get back to playing parts of it that are not available, and from the posts on this thread, I'm not the only one.

August 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lapaglia:
Doot happens. It does no one any good to just complain about somnething they have no control over. TPTB are not going to be able to work any faster just because we complain more. The new features of the site will be done when they are done. Its that simple. All the Bi*ching in the world will not make it happen any faster.

Not to gang up, but...

There are many different ways that complaining helps. Where I work it is absolutely the only way to get the owner to do anything. And we have to complain bitterly and often. It is true in some/many situations that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I'll bet that if TPTBs' email was flooded with a constant stream of teed-off paying members complaining about the locationless cache issue, they would put it on the front burner and deal with it in a much more timely manner (or at least open it back up until they get time). If no one complains, they might very well assume no one cares.

In situations where we have no direct control, voicing our opinions (strongly and/or bitterly if needed) is the only way to have an effect on things. It's called democracy in action. Holding your tongue and assuming TPTB are doing their very best while commitments/promises are falling by the wayside is sort of the same thing as not voting or holding political/social protests when your country is going right down the drain. I've also heard it called "sheepish apathy".

gobucks was very mild. When I complain, I get a little more heated.

2.3k · August 11, 2003

I agree with MtnLion about complaining... It is not a tech-issue that is the reason for the delay... its a ideological issue.

I just posted a new virtual which would also make a great Locationless cache as the subjects can be found all over the country... They are part of real Americana which is rapidly being lost. See what you think, Big John Cache

Also note that I put a comment at the end for people to complain to TPTB because this is the only way this issue will get re-visited.

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:
... It is not a tech-issue that is the reason for the delay...

I believe I read that it IS a technical issue. Locationless caches always ask you to place one or more photo's as a log. That's part of the fun. But this takes a lot of disk space too. And that might be the problem, apart from adding new features to the LC's.

BigBird

3k · August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by MtnLion:
I'll bet that if TPTBs' email was flooded with a constant stream of teed-off paying members complaining about the locationless cache issue, they would put it on the front burner and deal with it in a much more timely manner ...

Not a chance. At the same time some people would be complaining in favor of locationless caches, other paying members (who think locationless caches have no business being listed on this website) would also inundate TPTB with e-mails.

August 12, 2003

I see that the attitude at the geocaching site has change (If you don’t like us go somewhere else), it seems that we are the ones who keep the game going.

Lapaglia, keep up the good work and you'll run everyone off.

August 12, 2003

Look how about this, I like every kind of cache. How can I help?

They say this universe is bound to blow,

I say we crank up the Calypso Control!

~Jimmy Buffett

~Someday I Will~

August 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
[... (who think locationless caches have no business being listed on this website) ...

I wonder what the difference is what the heck is listed on the web site? Not everyone likes to do everything. the beauty of the game is that there are a different mechanisms for people to participate (including benchmarks which aren't geocaches). Its a shame that people just can't play their way and leave others alone. You know who you are. for shame!

SR and dboggny.

[This message was edited by sranddboggny.us on August 12, 2003 at 04:12 PM.]

August 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

quote:
Originally posted by MtnLion:
I'll bet that if TPTBs' email was flooded with a constant stream of teed-off _paying_ members complaining about the locationless cache issue, they would put it on the front burner and deal with it in a much more timely manner ...

Not a chance. At the same time some people would be complaining in favor of locationless caches, other _paying_ members (who think locationless caches have no business being listed on this website) would also inundate TPTB with e-mails.

Yeah, I think the idea I was going for was that complaining is often necessary to get things moving..that flooding TPTBs' emails with requests/gripes would have a better chance of success than pretending they know how we feel without telling them (when clearly they aren't making the progress they said they would).

I can't imagine that there are too many peole who are petty enough to inundate TPTB with emails requesting locationless caches be banned. I mean, (in the spirit of what SR and dboggny said above) why can't these anti-locationless people just not participate, and let those of us who find enjoyment or value in doing locationless caches do them. I really would enjoy an explanation of this by someone in our fold who feels strongly that locationless caches should be eliminated.

Why I bolded "paying" in my previous post...I can't even remember (smarty ). Uhho...soapbox coming...can't hold it back...aggghhh...I think I meant that paying members ought to make sure they are griping to TPTB about lifting the moratorium on new locationless caches (if they want that done). People who complain about an aspect of the site to TPTB but aren't paying for the use of the site are sort of stepping over their bounds in my opinion. I like to think of people who use this site but can't figure out how to/why they should donate $30 a year for it's upkeep (but can afford a GPSr, etc.) as spectators. And as such, they probably should leave the bigger issues with TPTB to those of us TPTB are beholden to because we help fund the site. That's all. (I realize that just cause Lapaglia didn't choose to change the avatar tagline "Geocacher" to something else doesn't mean Lapaglia isn't still a paying Charter Member.) Flame on!

9.4k · August 13, 2003

We're definitely planning on having them return. Unfortunately with limited resources it is often difficult just to deal with the day-to-day operations of the site.

When you have limited resources you tend to work on your core items, like traditional geocaching with physical caches, making sure the site runs quickly to service all the geocachers at 100% uptime, answer 100+ emails a day, and deal with incoming phonecalls regarding caches placed by inconsiderate "geocachers" who don't play by the rules.

I can absolutely guarantee that we have some excellent plans with the locationless cache concept. What you need to understand is that the running of this web site takes hours in the day and some projects tend to be set on the backburner for more important items (like maps). Also we unfortunately have to move to the new codebase which means often I have to write code to make some pages look exactly like they used to.

Be patient. Take your ideas and put them in a stack for when locationless caches are available again. I don't want to restore them until the site has proper features to address them.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

August 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy:
We're definitely planning on having them return. Unfortunately with limited resources it is often difficult just to deal with the day-to-day operations of the site.

When you have limited resources you tend to work on your core items, like traditional geocaching with physical caches, making sure the site runs quickly to service all the geocachers at 100% uptime, answer 100+ emails a day, and deal with incoming phonecalls regarding caches placed by inconsiderate "geocachers" who don't play by the rules.

I can absolutely guarantee that we have some excellent plans with the locationless cache concept. What you need to understand is that the running of this web site takes hours in the day and some projects tend to be set on the backburner for more important items (like maps). Also we unfortunately have to move to the new codebase which means often I have to write code to make some pages look exactly like they used to.

Be patient. Take your ideas and put them in a stack for when locationless caches are available again. I don't want to restore them until the site has proper features to address them.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Hey Jeremy, quit slackin' off surfing in the forums and get crackin!

2.3k · August 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by MtnLion:
[Hey Jeremy, quit slackin' off surfing in the forums and get crackin!

ROTFL... Thanks, its been a long day and I needed a good laugh...

Jeremy - If more man-power help is what you need, I think many people who follow the forums would be willing to pitch in. All you have to do is ask... and they will come.

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

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