Why is this happening?

[+Matekarlo]

2 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Try to ask a friend with better English knowledge to help you out with the suggestions given in this thread. You'll see it's pretty simple.

 

Nah, I won't really.. this cache hiding is more a headcache than fun to me these few days. Time to let it go and face a reality that I can't make it ?

Edited November 4, 2020 by Matekarlo

[yrcko]

This question goes especially keystone:

What about the following solution (coordinates are in the building) and the following advice for the searcher:

- Approach the building from the outside and look for the window nearest to the cache using your GPS

- Memorize distance and direction of the cache

- Enter the building and go to the window

- knowing distance and direction you can go to the cache location.

 

For me it is a traditional fullfilling the requirements of GS.

[RuideAlmeida]

15 minutes ago, yrcko said:

For me it is a traditional fullfilling the requirements of GS.

 

A Traditional cache has the container at published coordinates.

[+niraD]

42 minutes ago, RuideAlmeida said:

A Traditional cache has the container at published coordinates.

The example presented by yrcko is at the published coordinates.

 

I have found multiple caches using similar techniques, where I had no GPS reception at GZ, but I could use the accurate coordinates to find GZ using a bearing and distance from somewhere nearby where I did have GPS reception. This isn't much more complicated that following the arrow to GZ. The difference is that at some point, you no longer have the arrow, so you have to keep going without it for the last few yards/meters.

 

But apparently Groundspeak thinks buildings are special, and that accurate GPS coordinates cannot be obtained or used for caches in buildings.

[Keystone]

1 hour ago, yrcko said:

This question goes especially keystone:

What about the following solution (coordinates are in the building) and the following advice for the searcher:

- Approach the building from the outside and look for the window nearest to the cache using your GPS

- Memorize distance and direction of the cache

- Enter the building and go to the window

- knowing distance and direction you can go to the cache location.

 

For me it is a traditional fullfilling the requirements of GS.

 

This sounds like a good design for an offset multicache, with accurate coordinates taken at the window, then the geocacher follows the instructions for the offset from that point.

 

As to whether this design could be published as a Traditional, I would refer that question to HQ for guidance if the cache were submitted in my review territory.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

8 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

I still don't understrand how my cache coords is wrong. Coors are coords. ok, it's inside, but people will read hint, they will understand..

 

But nvm, how i can fix it? Sorry for so many questions, but, my english is not very good and honestly - i never made a multi cache.....

 

How did you obtain the coordinates?   Typically a GPS does not work inside a building?    The issue that you're running into is that while the cache may have a set of coordinates in a room, one can not use a GPS to navigate to those coordinates, and the use of a GPS enabled device is a basic requirement for playing this game.   From your description, it sounds like once one know which library it's in, the cache can be found using the hint.  That doesn't meet the GPS usage requirement.

 

The other issue which seems to be causing confusion is the existence of another cache similar to what you are trying to do.    As someone else said, sometimes a cache is published when it should not be.  There is a statement in the guidelines which basically means that an existing cache can not be used to justify the publishing of another.  By  mentioning is other cache, you may put that cache in jeopardy of being archived if it was mistakingly published and currently violates placement guidelines.  

 

[+thebruce0]

Matekarlo - what is your native language? Perhaps bring your difficulty to the forum section where you'll find a knowledgeable person who can help you in a language you better understand.

 

Remember that a Traditional cache type is a very basic geocache type - the type you've created so far. And that's great. But what you're hoping to do is more complicated because you're trying to put a geocache inside a building which isn't allowed.  You can create it as a different type of geocache, but that means you have to do the extra work to make it allowable.

 

All you need to remember for a simple setup is that stage 1 (the posted coordinates) are what people will use their GPS to find and must be outdoors, and you can set it to a Virtual waypoint type when you edit the geocache listing. At those coordinates they'll find the answer to a question you've given them.  As you've already set up with certitudes, they'll type that answer in and receive instructions to find the geocache within the library, and that stage doesn't need coordinates. Those instructions can be whatever you want, within reason of course. Most commonly it's the code of the "book" in its shelf location.

That location will need to be added as another waypoint in the geocache listing, as the final stage. The coordinates for that waypoint should be set to hidden from view.

 

If these instructions don't make sense to you, once again I'll suggest going to someone who speaks both english and your native language, and perhaps they can translate or help you better than we can.

 

 

[+Matekarlo]

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

Matekarlo - what is your native language? Perhaps bring your difficulty to the forum section where you'll find a knowledgeable person who can help you in a language you better understand.

 

Remember that a Traditional cache type is a very basic geocache type - the type you've created so far. And that's great. But what you're hoping to do is more complicated because you're trying to put a geocache inside a building which isn't allowed.  You can create it as a different type of geocache, but that means you have to do the extra work to make it allowable.

 

All you need to remember for a simple setup is that stage 1 (the posted coordinates) are what people will use their GPS to find and must be outdoors, and you can set it to a Virtual waypoint type when you edit the geocache listing. At those coordinates they'll find the answer to a question you've given them.  As you've already set up with certitudes, they'll type that answer in and receive instructions to find the geocache within the library, and that stage doesn't need coordinates. Those instructions can be whatever you want, within reason of course. Most commonly it's the code of the "book" in its shelf location.

That location will need to be added as another waypoint in the geocache listing, as the final stage. The coordinates for that waypoint should be set to hidden from view.

 

If these instructions don't make sense to you, once again I'll suggest going to someone who speaks both english and your native language, and perhaps they can translate or help you better than we can.

 

 

Honestly, I understand it now. But I still don't see any good way to make it. There is no place for good outdoor stage, and I don't understand virtual stages.  So, at the end - these rules are too difficult for me to complete. I think that today I'll go to library, tell them, "sorry, but it's too much complicated" and just take my cache with me. No point to do a thing that I can't make it.

[+Max and 99]

6 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

Honestly, I understand it now. But I still don't see any good way to make it. There is no place for good outdoor stage, and I don't understand virtual stages.  So, at the end - these rules are too difficult for me to complete. I think that today I'll go to library, tell them, "sorry, but it's too much complicated" and just take my cache with me. No point to do a thing that I can't make it.

I'm sorry that this geocache did not work out for you. 

[+arisoft]

19 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

I don't understand virtual stages.

 

Virtual stage is like a virtual cache. There is nothing hidden by the cache owner but there is something to find. For example, you can find a door and examine the color or material of the door.

 

You tried to make a virtual stage by adding a checker to the cache description, but there was no place where a player must go to answer the question. Even if the stage is virtual, it needs accurate coordinates.

Edited November 5, 2020 by arisoft

[+Matekarlo]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

Virtual stage is like a virtual cache. There is nothing hidden by the cache owner but there is something to find. For example, you can find a door and examine the color or material of the door.

 

You tried to make a virtual stage by adding a checker to the cache description, but there was no place where a player must go to answer the question. Even if the stage is virtual, it needs accurate coordinates.

Trying to find any place for outdoor cache atm

[+Matekarlo]

So yeah, me here - again. I made a multi with some virtual stages. People will need go to places with gps, look for things and then answer questions on certitudes.org. If they answer correct they get a liitle bit of coors and some hint. So yeah, let's wait...

Edited November 5, 2020 by Matekarlo

[+NYPaddleCacher]

16 hours ago, Keystone said:

 

This sounds like a good design for an offset multicache, with accurate coordinates taken at the window, then the geocacher follows the instructions for the offset from that point.

 

As to whether this design could be published as a Traditional, I would refer that question to HQ for guidance if the cache were submitted in my review territory.

 

It's an interesting idea for a multi-cache.   Navigate to s specific of coordinates, then require a projection to a specific location inside a building.  It doesn't *sound* like something that HQ would allow it. 

[+thebruce0]

5 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

So yeah, me here - again. I made a multi with some virtual stages. People will need go to places with gps, look for things and then answer questions on certitudes.org. If they answer correct they get a liitle bit of coors and some hint. So yeah, let's wait...

 

That sounds correct, so if there's no confusion about what's actually in the listing and what you describe here, I don't think there will be a problem with it.

 

"Virtual" stage just refers to a location where you as the cache owner haven't placed anything physical or new in the real world. It's a reference location, as you say - go to a location to look for something [which already exists] in order to solve a puzzle or answer a question (in your case, on certitudes.org).  If that's the case for your latest attempt, then I hope it works out for you!

[+arisoft]

Earlier I believed that a multi-cache can not use on-line geocheckers as a mandatory part of the cache experience. In theory, a geocacher who is using a standard GPS receiver, could not find such a cache. I asked this from HQ and got following answer:

 

Quote

We do allow 3-party checkers as part of a Multi-Cache. This is something that the community added to the game a long time ago and has been part of the options for Multi-Caches. The link to the checker must be part of the page and therefore is one of the instructions that needs to be followed.

 

With this knowledge, using Certitudes seems very plausible solution for a library multi-cache.

[+ecanderson]

6 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

 If they answer correct they get a liitle bit of coors and some hint. So yeah, let's wait...

Hey, I'm liking your idea better all the time!

[+niraD]

6 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Hey, I'm liking your idea better all the time!

Or, y'know, something good...

[+Matekarlo]

13 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

That sounds correct, so if there's no confusion about what's actually in the listing and what you describe here, I don't think there will be a problem with it.

 

"Virtual" stage just refers to a location where you as the cache owner haven't placed anything physical or new in the real world. It's a reference location, as you say - go to a location to look for something [which already exists] in order to solve a puzzle or answer a question (in your case, on certitudes.org).  If that's the case for your latest attempt, then I hope it works out for you!

Yeah, people come to virtual stage and need to find things on street. For example - question:

 

EN: Across the street, there are numbers are hung on two houses. What is the sum of these numbers? ??? + ??? =

 

EN: When you come to the following coordinates, you will see the logo. What kind of animal is depicted in it? (e.g. dog).

 

If they want to get part of coords and hint  they need answer corect on certitude.

 

And yeah, i left two quwstions withuot virtual stages, people just need to read description and then answer. Hope that won't be problem, because now people need  GPS 100% to find this cache.

13 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

With this knowledge, using Certitudes seems very plausible solution for a library multi-cache.

Great to read this!

 

13 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Hey, I'm liking your idea better all the time!

Haha, my "speed writing" is awful, hope this coors(coords) not that bad

[+Matekarlo]

I just got a mail - "a new geocache was just published", sadly, not mine. But I will make update how it's going with my multi-cache.

[+Matekarlo]

Well... Big THANKS to all of you, finally my library cache is ONLINE! Really, all of you helped me alot explaining and ecxplaining, again and again. Sorry for my folishness, and sorry for my rude messages, I was really tired with this cache and do it right.

 

But.. it's a great lesson for future!

[+niraD]

Congratulations!

 

I see only one problem with your library cache: "4859.7 mi from your home location"

[+ecanderson]

?  Right across the river from home, best I can tell.

[+thebruce0]

12 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

And yeah, i left two quwstions withuot virtual stages, people just need to read description and then answer. Hope that won't be problem, because now people need  GPS 100% to find this cache.

 

Yeah I would think the first part would be why it wasn't published. If they didn't need to use GPS, then it's not a valid geocache. So your fix to require them to go to a location in order to answer your questions was the right thing to do

 

8 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

Well... Big THANKS to all of you, finally my library cache is ONLINE! Really, all of you helped me alot explaining and ecxplaining, again and again. Sorry for my folishness, and sorry for my rude messages, I was really tired with this cache and do it right.

 

Awesome, congratulations!

 

[+colleda]

15 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

Well... Big THANKS to all of you, finally my library cache is ONLINE! Really, all of you helped me alot explaining and ecxplaining, again and again. Sorry for my folishness, and sorry for my rude messages, I was really tired with this cache and do it right.

 

But.. it's a great lesson for future!

Hooray. An excellent example of working together for the common good.

[+Max and 99]

15 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

Well... Big THANKS to all of you, finally my library cache is ONLINE! Really, all of you helped me alot explaining and ecxplaining, again and again. Sorry for my folishness, and sorry for my rude messages, I was really tired with this cache and do it right.

 

But.. it's a great lesson for future!

Fantastic! I'm so glad you didn't give up! 

[+thebruce0]

And also a very encouraging thread with a lot of helpful input pushing through frustration