Why is this happening?

[+Max and 99]

13 minutes ago, on4bam said:

I'm assuming streetview (July 2012) is still accurate.

 

So, your cache starting point is N 54° 53.054  E 23° 53.686

Question to answer at this virtual WP: The telephone number you see here is AB CD EF (I can't read exactly but think it's 76 65 98)

Calculate the next WP  N54 53.(B-C)D(E-D)  E23 53.BFB

At that WP enter the building and find XYZ (the hint you say is in your listing that says where the cache can be found in the library).

 

Understand?

 

 

To me this is a problem since the cache can be found without the virtual stage, just using the hint on the page. If I understand correctly. 

 

Players should not be able to find the final container without completing the outdoor stage. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Max and 99

[+Matekarlo]

21 minutes ago, on4bam said:

I'm assuming streetview (July 2012) is still accurate.

 

So, your cache starting point is N 54° 53.054  E 23° 53.686

Question to answer at this virtual WP: The telephone number you see here is AB CD EF (I can't read exactly but think it's 76 65 98)

Calculate the next WP  N54 53.(B-C)D(E-D)  E23 53.BFB

At that WP enter the building and find XYZ (the hint you say is in your listing that says where the cache can be found in the library).

 

Understand?

 

 

This coords will be wrong because of other geocache

Edited November 4, 2020 by Matekarlo

[+Matekarlo]

2 minutes ago, on4bam said:

No they won't. It's a VIRTUAL waypoint so the 161m rule does not apply.

 

 

Soo.. i need to make a virtual multi or what?..

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, Matekarlo said:

My english is trash, I don't understand what exactly I need to do.

You need to make accurate GPS coordinates part of your cache design. There are many ways to do this, and some have been suggested.

 

The library cache you used as an example does not appear to do that. Sometimes mistakes happen. Sometimes guidelines are enforced differently now than they were a few years ago. But it doesn't matter. You cannot use the other library cache as an example of how to do your library cache.

 

Personally, I would take the instructions you have in your hint and print them on something weatherproof. An easy approach would be to print the instructions on a card and laminate it. at one end. Then I would trim the lamination plastic, leaving about a quarter inch (half a centimeter) around 3 edges, and leaving at least an inch (2.5 cm) on the 4th edge. I'd punch a hole in the extra plastic border of the 4th edge, and use a zip tie to attach it somewhere.

 

As far as where to place the tag, I'd look for a spot "to the north and west of the library" as Keystone suggested.

 

But this is just an idea. There are other approaches, but the key is to make accurate GPS coordinates part of your cache design. Don't just add a puzzle or some sort of calculation and expect the volunteer reviewer to publish your cache. You have to make accurate GPS coordinates part of your cache design.

[+Matekarlo]

4 minutes ago, niraD said:

You need to make accurate GPS coordinates part of your cache design. There are many ways to do this, and some have been suggested.

 

The library cache you used as an example does not appear to do that. Sometimes mistakes happen. Sometimes guidelines are enforced differently now than they were a few years ago. But it doesn't matter. You cannot use the other library cache as an example of how to do your library cache.

 

Personally, I would take the instructions you have in your hint and print them on something weatherproof. An easy approach would be to print the instructions on a card and laminate it. at one end. Then I would trim the lamination plastic, leaving about a quarter inch (half a centimeter) around 3 edges, and leaving at least an inch (2.5 cm) on the 4th edge. I'd punch a hole in the extra plastic border of the 4th edge, and use a zip tie to attach it somewhere.

 

As far as where to place the tag, I'd look for a spot "to the north and west of the library" as Keystone suggested.

 

But this is just an idea. There are other approaches, but the key is to make accurate GPS coordinates part of your cache design. Don't just add a puzzle or some sort of calculation and expect the volunteer reviewer to publish your cache. You have to make accurate GPS coordinates part of your cache design.

At this moment I think about "giving up" on this cache. Looks like problematic to do, never had done this before and don't understand the things that you all trying to explain me. Felling kinda bad about this situation.

[+niraD]

3 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

At this moment I think about "giving up" on this cache. Looks like problematic to do, never had done this before and don't understand the things that you all trying to explain me. Felling kinda bad about this situation.

Can you explain what part you don't understand?

[+Max and 99]

3 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

At this moment I think about "giving up" on this cache. Looks like problematic to do, never had done this before and don't understand the things that you all trying to explain me. Felling kinda bad about this situation.

If you send me a photo of your cache page I can try to help with the virtual stage. But it's hard without seeing the hint and the coordinates. Just if you want me to I'll try to help

[+Max and 99]

I wouldn't post that on the forum I suggest deleting it. ?

Edited November 4, 2020 by Max and 99

[+Matekarlo]

Just now, Max and 99 said:

I wouldn't post that on the forum I suggest deleting it. ?

Done

[+arisoft]

2 hours ago, Matekarlo said:

But seriously. Where is the logic here. Simple treasure with specific cootinates is not good, and multi/mystery are all ok. Strange, strange.. But I quess i have no choice

 

I must agree that logic is not perfect. I have made a traditional cache which is under a bridge and GPS do not work at the GZ. The situation is explained in the cache description and reviewer had no problems to publish my cache. In my defence I can say that coordinates are the only way to find the GZ. Libraries are different because there is special guideline for them.

[+Matekarlo]

1 minute ago, arisoft said:

 

I must agree that logic is not perfect. I have made a traditional cache which is under a bridge and GPS do not work at the GZ. The situation is explained in the cache description and reviewer had no problems to publish my cache. In my defence I can say that coordinates are the only way to find the GZ. Libraries are different because there is special guideline for them.

My cache is super easy with hint and coors witch leads inside. Feeling bad that there are problems from nowhere. But i made this to my self, sad that it's so hard to make it with 'rules'

[+arisoft]

1 minute ago, Matekarlo said:

My cache is super easy with hint and coors witch leads inside. Feeling bad that there are problems from nowhere. But i made this to my self, sad that it's so hard to make it with 'rules'

 

The problem is that your idea was too easy. Anyone can find the cache without using a GPS receiver. The primary rule when creating a geocache is that a player have opportunity to use a GPS receiver. If you don't offer this opportunity in your geocache, it is not publishable as a geocache.

[+Matekarlo]

20 minutes ago, niraD said:

Can you explain what part you don't understand?

Honestly - all. Simple - I need to make virtual/fizical container with coords and hint to library? If it is, how i can make virtual? Almost no chance fot fizical one.  I don't know

[+Matekarlo]

1 minute ago, arisoft said:

 

The problem is that your idea was too easy. Anyone can find the cache without using a GPS receiver. The primary rule when creating a geocache is that a player have opportunity to use a GPS receiver. If you don't offer this opportunity in your geocache, it is not publishable as a geocache.

Ohh.. okay.. then i think it's almost impossible to do it harder. Unless my mystery will pass.. you need to answer questions for coords and hint..

[+Max and 99]

4 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

Honestly - all. Simple - I need to make virtual/fizical container with coords and hint to library? If it is, how i can make virtual? Almost no chance fot fizical one.  I don't know

Give me a few minutes to get home and pull up your information. I'll see if I can help with what you've provided. 

[+Matekarlo]

1 minute ago, Max and 99 said:

Give me a few minutes to get home and pull up your information. I'll see if I can help with what you've provided. 

Okay. With my logic it's fine now, because people don't have coords and hint till they answer questions in bio

Edited November 4, 2020 by Matekarlo

[+arisoft]

7 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

If it is, how i can make virtual?

 

Change coordinates to the entrance of the library.

 

Ask the finder to examine the color of the door.

 

Give multiple choises where the cache is inside the library depending on the color.

Now you have a virtual stage with exact (outdoors) coordinates.

Edited November 4, 2020 by arisoft

[+Max and 99]

3 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

Okay. With my logic it's fine now, because people don't have coords and hint till they answer questions in bio

That's great! So you're good now? You've got it all figured out? I don't need to work on a question?

Just making sure, so I don't leave you with questions.

[+Matekarlo]

2 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Change coordinates to the entrance of the library.

 

Ask the finder to examine the color of the door.

 

Give multiple choises where the cache is inside the library depending on the color.

Now you have a virtual stage with exact (outdoors) coordinates.

But mystery with questions dosen't fit? People need to find answers to get coords and hint

[+arisoft]

2 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

But mystery with questions dosen't fit? People need to find answers to get coords and hint

 

This is not a mystery. It is a multi-cache with a virtual first stage.

Edited November 4, 2020 by arisoft

[+Matekarlo]

Just now, Max and 99 said:

That's great! So you're good now? You've got it all figured out? I don't need to work on a question?

Just making sure, so I don't leave you with questions.

Well, you can find answers in bio i had given.. i don't know does that 'works". mystery coords are virtual. People would need to read bio and finds answers to questions for coords and hint

[+Matekarlo]

Just now, arisoft said:

 

This is not a mystery. It is a multi-cache.

Why? I have one mystery with same thing. Questions, then you answer you get coords and hint. I'll send yoi pics in private

[+Max and 99]

2 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

But mystery with questions dosen't fit? People need to find answers to get coords and hint

 

6 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Change coordinates to the entrance of the library.

 

Ask the finder to examine the color of the door.

 

Give multiple choises where the cache is inside the library depending on the color.

Now you have a virtual stage with exact (outdoors) coordinates.

From arisoft's post, here's an idea:

 

If the door at the library entrance is yellow, you will find the cache at:  Reference section, Y774T

If the door at the library entrance is purple, you will find the cache at: Children's section, P5534

If the door at the library entrance is green, you will find the cache at: Adult fiction, F5592

[+Max and 99]

Just now, Matekarlo said:

Why? I have one mystery with same thing. Questions, then you answer you get coords and hint. I'll send yoi pics in private

I saw that mention on the cache page you sent. It seems that you have already come up with a puzzle for the library, and the reviewer approved. That's great. Go for that plan if it's easier for you!!

[+Max and 99]

We want an update to this forum thread when your new library cache is published!

[+Matekarlo]

1 minute ago, Max and 99 said:

I saw that mention on the cache page you sent. It seems that you have already come up with a puzzle for the library, and the reviewer approved. That's great. Go for that plan if it's easier for you!!

Wrong. He stil not approwed. Takes to 2-7 days here.

 

[+Max and 99]

Just now, Matekarlo said:

Wrong. He stil not approwed. Takes to 2-7 days here.

 

I didn't mean publish the cache, I just meant that from the reviewer note, he seems to approve of your idea/plan.

[+Matekarlo]

1 minute ago, Max and 99 said:

I didn't mean publish the cache, I just meant that from the reviewer note, he seems to approve of your idea/plan.

You think my message and idea are fine?

[+Max and 99]

I don't know what the plan is. I just saw the reviewer note. Honestly, I don't know what it says on the cache page at all.

[+arisoft]

11 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

But mystery with questions dosen't fit? People need to find answers to get coords and hint

 

The question is about using a GPS receiver. Not how complicated is to get the hint to find the cache inside library.

[+Matekarlo]

2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I don't know what the plan is. I just saw the reviewer note. Honestly, I don't know what it says on the cache page at all.

 

1 minute ago, arisoft said:

 

The question is about using a GPS receiver. Not how complicated is to get the hint to find the cache inside library.

 

At this point, you neeed to answer questiosn to get coords and hint. Hope this works

[+Max and 99]

4 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

You think my message and idea are fine?

How do people answer question 1: (Name of librarian). That can change sometimes?

Question 2: great idea!

[+Max and 99]

Just now, Matekarlo said:

 

 

At this point, you neeed to answer questiosn to get coords and hint. Hope this works

If you set it up as a puzzle cache, then your two questions should work! Then enter the answer into the checker, and get coordinates and a partial hint (one for each checker).

Be aware: the name of the librarian: what exactly do you want in the answer? First name, last name? Specifics would help.

[+Max and 99]

3 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

 

 

At this point, you neeed to answer questiosn to get coords and hint. Hope this works

You're so close to finishing this. Don't give up yet! Haha.

I think your puzzle idea is a good one!

Edited November 4, 2020 by Max and 99

[+arisoft]

3 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

At this point, you neeed to answer questiosn to get coords and hint. Hope this works

 

The original problem may still exist if these coordinates are the same you already have for the traditional cache.

Edited November 4, 2020 by arisoft

[+Matekarlo]

Just now, arisoft said:

 

The original problem may still exists if these coordinates are the same you already have for the traditional cache.

But why? People need to know where to go

[+Matekarlo]

2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

You're so close to finishing this. Don't give up yet! Haha.

I think your puzzle idea is a good one!

If airsoft is correct they won't publish it

[+arisoft]

2 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

But why? People need to know where to go

 

Geocaching is not about knowing where to go, it is about using a GPS receiver to go somewhere, at least in one stage of the geocache. This rule is not negotiable as you have seen.

[+Matekarlo]

Just now, arisoft said:

 

Geocaching is not about knowing where to go, it is about using a GPS receiver to go somewhere, at least in one stage of the geocache. This rule is not negotiable as you have seen.

So yeah, they will use GPS to go to correct room. At this point I don't see problem..

[+Matekarlo]

Also I can change coords to the doors, then they would need to be looking room with a hint

[+niraD]

3 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Geocaching is not about knowing where to go, it is about using a GPS receiver to go somewhere, at least in one stage of the geocache. This rule is not negotiable as you have seen.

This is what several of us have been trying to tell you. Accurate GPS coordinates must be used at some point, and Groundspeak does not count coordinates inside a library or other building as meeting this requirement.

 

There are many ways to meet this requirement, which is why several people (including me) have been offering different suggestions. But those suggestions aren't going to help unless you use them in a way that makes accurate GPS coordinates an essential part of your cache for at least one of the stages.

[+arisoft]

11 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

Also I can change coords to the doors, then they would need to be looking room with a hint

 

Quote

Inside buildings, GPS signal is either unreliable or not present. To follow the GPS rule, indoor caches must have an additional stage outdoors. Coordinates at the entrance to the building are not enough.

 

This quote is from the Help Center. It definitely rejects the idea that you can use the entrance coordinates for the indoor cache.

 

(You can use the entrance coordinates for the virtual stage of the multi cache)

Edited November 4, 2020 by arisoft

[+Matekarlo]

14 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

 

This quote is from the Help Center. It definitely rejects the idea that you can use the entrance coordinates for the indoor cache.

 

(You can use the entrance coordinates for the virtual stage of the multi cache)

Let's see how they will react to my mystery with two questions.. i would not understand if that still gonna be problem. People need coords to search for a room.

 

But yeah, if they still won't let it pass i'll need to find other solution. Kind a principle thing to do it right...

Edited November 4, 2020 by Matekarlo

[+Max and 99]

1 minute ago, Matekarlo said:

People need coords to search for a room

So let's say that I hide $1 million dollars inside the library. All you get is coordinates to find it. Will you be able to find it? No, because coordinates are not accurate inside a building. Those won't be accepted for a geocache.

[+Matekarlo]

4 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

So let's say that I hide $1 million dollars inside the library. All you get is coordinates to find it. Will you be able to find it? No, because coordinates are not accurate inside a building. Those won't be accepted for a geocache.

So all my work for now is for nothing?

[+niraD]

5 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

So let's say that I hide $1 million dollars inside the library. All you get is coordinates to find it. Will you be able to find it?

If the coordinates are accurate, then yes.

 

5 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

No, because coordinates are not accurate inside a building.

They aren't accurate inside a cave or inside a hollow redwood tree or anywhere else where you don't get GPS reception, but it's still possible to get and use accurate coordinates for such locations.

 

6 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Those won't be accepted for a geocache.

That is very much true, and is the only thing that matters. Groundspeak will not accept coordinates for locations inside buildings as adequate GPS use.

[+Matekarlo]

1 minute ago, niraD said:

That is very much true, and is the only thing that matters. Groundspeak will not accept coordinates for locations inside buildings as adequate GPS use.

So I already can drop my mystery catch to a trash?

[+niraD]

21 minutes ago, Matekarlo said:

24 minutes ago, niraD said:

That is very much true, and is the only thing that matters. Groundspeak will not accept coordinates for locations inside buildings as adequate GPS use.

So I already can drop my mystery catch to a trash?

Your library cache needs to use accurate GPS coordinates to find a location outdoors. Does the mystery/puzzle cache version of your library cache do that?

[+Matekarlo]

14 minutes ago, niraD said:

Your library cache needs to use accurate GPS coordinates to find a location outdoors. Does the mystery/puzzle cache version of your library cache do that?

No. You only need answer questions and go to place. Now i understand. Sadly, almost impossible to do it.. sad

[+Matekarlo]

4 minutes ago, on4bam said:

 

I give up.

I understand you. You all gaved many solutions, but in my opion it's almost impossible to do it. My english understanding skils are too low. It's my first time to seeing some kind of problems with publishing a hide. Hope that won't happen again for me. Sorry for waisting you time cachers 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Matekarlo