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Stop this annoying LAB project


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On 3/31/2021 at 3:51 AM, cerberus1 said:

I lost interest in a "leader board" and "points" some time ago,  but keeping these things away from our stats is important to the other 2/3rds too.

ALs killed that for me.

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I rode to a local AL for the exercise expecting to do one AL to find the bonus cache. I find a purpose encourages me to get out and exercise, and I look at destinations near me. I expected to do one AL and then be able to log the bonus cache, but found three ALs lined up and linked. I needed to do all three ALs to get the bonus cache. Many of the WPs were no more then 15 metres apart and they were logged quickly. In the distance of about 400 metres I got 15 smilies. I didn't time this, but they didn't take long to complete. (And then the bonus cache). Compare that to a multicache. Compare that to a multicache that I did which stretches for over 4,000kms for ONE smilie. Over 8,000kms minimal return. Puts many ALs into perspective. Even compare that to simple traditional caches. You are not allowed to have 15 caches in 400 metres, but this is all dandy it seems for ALs, which are given the same value. ALs are cheapening geocaching. They are also cheapening the wonderful lab caches done at MEGAs. It would not be so bad if it were one smilie after completing one AL, but 15 smilies, where a multicache would get one smilie for completing this one task, or at the most 3 smilies for the allowed traditional caches in the same distance.

Yes, I did do them, as I find them an incentive to get on my bike. I would not have been able to log the bonus cache if I had not completed the ALs.

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2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I rode to a local AL for the exercise expecting to do one AL to find the bonus cache. I find a purpose encourages me to get out and exercise, and I look at destinations near me. I expected to do one AL and then be able to log the bonus cache, but found three ALs lined up and linked. I needed to do all three ALs to get the bonus cache. Many of the WPs were no more then 15 metres apart and they were logged quickly. In the distance of about 400 metres I got 15 smilies. I didn't time this, but they didn't take long to complete. (And then the bonus cache). Compare that to a multicache. Compare that to a multicache that I did which stretches for over 4,000kms for ONE smilie. Over 8,000kms minimal return. Puts many ALs into perspective. Even compare that to simple traditional caches. You are not allowed to have 15 caches in 400 metres, but this is all dandy it seems for ALs, which are given the same value. ALs are cheapening geocaching. They are also cheapening the wonderful lab caches done at MEGAs. It would not be so bad if it were one smilie after completing one AL, but 15 smilies, where a multicache would get one smilie for completing this one task, or at the most 3 smilies for the allowed traditional caches in the same distance.

Yes, I did do them, as I find them an incentive to get on my bike. I would not have been able to log the bonus cache if I had not completed the ALs.

I am lucky in my area nobody did this sillyness of putting all 5 locations at the same spot. I hope you gave those 'Adventure' a rating of 1 star.

 

I don't know why Groundspeak still push that cache type hard even if the community is strongly divided about them.

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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

ALs are cheapening geocaching.

 

Oh definitely. Seems people love smilies. Power trails proved it, so I'm not surprised with the AL development.  Groundspeak found a market in smilies. 

 

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15 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Compare that to a multicache.

 

Over my eight years of caching I've found 86 multis, most of which took at least several hours to complete (some took several days). The meaty ones I've particularly enjoyed, like GC5K9KJ, leave lasting memories of the great times this game has to offer.

 

By contrast, in the seven months since the first AL appeared in my region, I've completed 15 of them, most of which were done in under an hour with just a bit of urban walking (although some were a bit more adventurous and on par with a good multi). Yet my "find count" from those will soon eclipse that of my multis. Once I realised how much they were distorting my caching history, I decided to delete all AL finds from my caching stats. All the ones I've done have had a bonus cache so its smiley is an adequate place-marker (or "token of achievement" I suppose) for the AL that led to it.

 

Deleting AL finds has to be done one waypoint at a time, though, so I think it'd be nice if there was an option where you could select whether you wanted a smiley for each waypoint, a smiley just for completed ALs or no smileys at all from them. That way everyone could chose how they're incorporated into their caching history without having to keep jigging it.

Edited by barefootjeff
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On 10/14/2020 at 3:50 PM, RedHunters said:

Stop this LAB thing because:

  • Receiving up to 5 points for one LAB Cache is destroying Multicaches. People are already prefering LAB over "normal" caches.
  • LAB bonus caches block locations für "reals" geocaches an cannot be found without finding the LAB itself
  • LAB owners keep hiding bonus Caches because of the missing feeling to finding a box at the end - this is bizarre and shows to me an systematic failure behind the LAB idea
  • Don't bring half-backed ideas the us, we all know what happend to Wherigo, Waymarking aso
  • LAB seems to be a newer version of Wherigo? And why did'nt you just develope Wherigo instead of leaving it in alpha stadium?

 

Please try to develope and strengthen the existing cachetypes with your ideas instead of destabilizing them.

 

greetings from Austria

Stefan

I couldn't disagree more.

It is one of the nicest ways to do sightseeing in bigger AND smaller places and there IS a big difference to the options you have in multi caches.

Honestly, I don't really think that LAB-boni block other geocaches. Come on! There is so much space around, and so many possibilities. You rarely see the bonus on spot of a sight. I rather think badly made traditionals are in the way of good multis. Somebody throws a film container under another small pebble and thus blocks a nice spot. 

The only thing I would change is the counting. One LAB would be one geocache for me, not five. But then statistics ruined parts of our hobby anyway, by "powercachers" not really finding caches (but let their buddies log them), writing cryptic minimal logs and boasting with statistics everyone knows they cheated in. So - in my eyes it should not be the statistics but the outdoor fun that counts.

 

BTW: Happy Easter!

Peter

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3 minutes ago, HumboldtundBlackJack said:

I couldn't disagree more.

It is one of the nicest ways to do sightseeing in bigger AND smaller places and there IS a big difference to the options you have in multi caches.

Honestly, I don't really think that LAB-boni block other geocaches. Come on! There is so much space around, and so many possibilities. You rarely see the bonus on spot of a sight. I rather think badly made traditionals are in the way of good multis. Somebody throws a film container under another small pebble and thus blocks a nice spot. 

The only thing I would change is the counting. One LAB would be one geocache for me, not five. But then statistics ruined parts of our hobby anyway, by "powercachers" not really finding caches (but let their buddies log them), writing cryptic minimal logs and boasting with statistics everyone knows they cheated in. So - in my eyes it should not be the statistics but the outdoor fun that counts.

 

BTW: Happy Easter!

Peter

One AL cache being worth one find, rather than five, would work for me. I would be keener then to find more of them.

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It's a relief lab caches are limited!  Were they not, you know someone would place a lab cache power trail somewhere.  Were you to average a lab cache every two minutes (it's possible if you just put in the answer provided in the "question"), it would be possible to do 3K finds in a day.

 

These lab caches are the ultimate progression of smaller, cheaper cache containers (you can't get cheaper than a virtual waypoint).  Caching started with a log book.  People wrote in the book and took their time.  Then containers got smaller and more numerous, so people only wrote their handles on the log slip.  Power trails popped up.  Now, with lab caches, you don't even have to find anything or write anything down.  But you can be assured after one or two generations, geocaching will have a renaissance and larger caches will become a thing again.  After all, preferences are cyclic.

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19 minutes ago, Ranger Fox said:

It's a relief lab caches are limited!  Were they not, you know someone would place a lab cache power trail somewhere.

You do know there are lab cache power trails, right? Thousands on the Lincoln highway and now they're working on thousands on Route 66.

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21 minutes ago, Ranger Fox said:

But you can be assured after one or two generations, geocaching will have a renaissance and larger caches will become a thing again.  After all, preferences are cyclic.

:laughing:

Thanks for that.   

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1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:
2 hours ago, Ranger Fox said:

It's a relief lab caches are limited!  Were they not, you know someone would place a lab cache power trail somewhere.

You do know there are lab cache power trails, right? Thousands on the Lincoln highway and now they're working on thousands on Route 66.

 

I sensed some sarcasm in Ranger Fox's post :P

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 

I sensed some sarcasm in Ranger Fox's post :P

 

41 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I suspected that was maybe the case but wasn't convinced. ?

 

Actually, that wasn't sarcasm.  I didn't know someone had already done that.  Thank you for giving me more credit than I deserved.  (I don't listen to podcasts, don't read blogs, don't receive Groudspeak's newsletter, don't watch videos, don't read much of the forum except for Wherigo, and am generally out of touch.  I just go out and find crap, and that's enough for me.  I'd rather play the game than talk, read, listen to, or watch something about it.)

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"But you can be assured after one or two generations, geocaching will have a renaissance and larger caches will become a thing again.  After all, preferences are cyclic. "

 

I hope I will have a high speed power driven wheelchair by then and will be able to remember how to operate a GPSr

 

Edited by Mausebiber
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4 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

"But you can be assured after one or two generations, geocaching will have a renaissance and larger caches will become a thing again.  After all, preferences are cyclic. "

 

I hope I will have a high speed power driven wheelchair by then and will be able to remember how to operate a GPSr

 

What are you talking about?  By then, they'll have something like Google Glass.  But don't look to be the first to do something like that as I already created an app for Glass and made a video of the first time someone had ever found a cache using Glass.  I'm still an old fogie and want my hand-held GPSr, not a smartphone.

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4 hours ago, Ranger Fox said:

But you can be assured after one or two generations, geocaching will have a renaissance and larger caches will become a thing again.

 

Best of both worlds on this AL? The bonus cache is a 2 litre Sistema with a beautifully-crafted logbook and plenty of SWAG for the little ones:

 

Container.jpg.f9e661b8cdf2db765499f76fb05871fe.jpg

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16 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

The bonus cache is a 2 litre Sistema with a beautifully-crafted logbook and plenty of SWAG for the little ones

 

Very nice bonus cache, unfortunately, I don't see a container this size very often.  It would be perfect, if the bonus cache would have some kind of a riddle so it can be found without visiting all lab-cache.

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15 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

 

Very nice bonus cache, unfortunately, I don't see a container this size very often.  It would be perfect, if the bonus cache would have some kind of a riddle so it can be found without visiting all lab-cache.

 

In my region, the smalls (231) and regulars (136) still outnumber the micros (133). My own AL bonus caches aren't quite as well-presented as Team737's but are still a good size:

 

BonusCaches.jpg.0b781cf83700df2cbce321ea792eeb3c.jpg

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3 hours ago, Ranger Fox said:
4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

I sensed some sarcasm in Ranger Fox's post :P

 

3 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I suspected that was maybe the case but wasn't convinced. ?

 

Actually, that wasn't sarcasm.  I didn't know someone had already done that.

 

I knew I should have left "But I could be wrong!" but I was so sure it must be sarcasm ;D  Well, yep, it's being worked on. And it's pretty popular. But from what I've seen the AL power trails efforts are fairly polarizing. Many love it, and many detest it. 

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On 10/14/2020 at 2:07 PM, Max and 99 said:

Many of the adventure lab locations I did were not wheelchair accessible, and there's no way to know in advance. 

I have been pleasantly surprised at the recent Adventure Labs in my area that specifically state in the description that they are wheelchair accessible.

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