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MetropolitanFox

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Started with the web page, found nearest cache no problem. But on the app its premium so cant access any of the details etc...?

 

How are premium caches chosen? And why are they visible on the website but not in the app?

 

Thanks


Tim

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Posted (edited)

I think you are mixing up "Advanced" caches and "Premium Member Only" caches.  The former are constrained by the programming of the official Geocaching app (but are available on the website), and the latter are set by the cache owners as available to Premium Members Only.  You can read more about the distinctions in this Help Center article.

Edited by Keystone
fixed link
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Indeed I did!  The copy didn't "take" so I pasted the last link in my browser memory, leftover from a cache review I'm working on.  Thanks for noting it - fixing now.

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I dont think I am...

 

For example cache GC7DJTK is as far as I can see from the website a normal, traditional cache. However on the app its premium. Although, now that I tap on the app, I see whats happeneing - its rated difficulty 3.

But thats begs the question, why are caches with difficutly > 2.0 or terrain > 2.0 rated premium in the app, but not on the website...

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, MetropolitanFox said:

I dont think I am...

 

For example cache GC7DJTK is as far as I can see from the website a normal, traditional cache. However on the app its premium. Although, now that I tap on the app, I see whats happeneing - its rated difficulty 3.

But thats begs the question, why are caches with difficutly > 2.0 or terrain > 2.0 rated premium in the app, but not on the website...

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

 

You're confusing "Advanced" caches with "Premium Member Only" caches.  Keystone posted a link with differences between the App and Website for paying vs. non-paying members.  The App of course is more of a premium feature (at least the convenience due to paying the subscription is).  The free part of the App shows only caches that someone new to Geocaching may easily find, higher D/T being "Advanced" ones.  To try out Geocaching.

 

It's a good thing that the web site lists caches even above 2/2.  Otherwise, you'd have to pay just to use the web site.  Hunt any cache you see by typing the cords into the App or other suitable App.

 

Edited by kunarion
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22 minutes ago, MetropolitanFox said:

But thats begs the question, why are caches with difficutly > 2.0 or terrain > 2.0 rated premium in the app, but not on the website...

 

As Keystone explained, they're not rated "premium", but "advanced".  Basic members will be able to see these "advanced" caches on the website but not on the (official) app.  The updated link explains this well.

 

As to the "why?", I think there are two main reasons:

 

1. It hopefully prevents someone who has just downloaded the app from throwing themselves off of a cliff in search of a T5.

2. It allows a Basic member to see on the website what they're missing on the app, giving maybe a little more incentive to sign up for Premium.

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1 hour ago, MetropolitanFox said:

... why are caches with difficutly > 2.0 or terrain > 2.0 rated premium in the app, but not on the website...

 

Similar to kunarion I guess,  the site has tried to keep the hobby free when and where they can.   :)

Using a GPSr and the site, you can access any cache not listed "premium member only"  free.

Using an app and the site, you can access any cache not listed "premium member only" by adding coordinates to the app - also free.

The app takes more work for employees at HQ, requires a lot more upkeep, and to be fair, you can't get everything for free...

 

A few times the site has mistakenly called "advanced" caches premium on the free app.   Supposed to be an error.

Years now, it should be corrected.   

Curious, are you saying the app actually says premium for caches that are simply above 2/2, or were you just assuming ?  Thanks.

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@kunarion - I dont think I am confusing Premium caches with advanced ones, but I think the App is.

 

@Cerberus1 - see attached screen shot. Strictly the app is referring to difficulty but makes a strong link to premium by saying that in order to see the cache on the app you have to upgrade, in other words, in the app, advanced caches are premium caches.

 

Tim

 

 

Screenshot_20190329-085108.png

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1 hour ago, MetropolitanFox said:

Strictly the app is referring to difficulty but makes a strong link to premium by saying that in order to see the cache on the app you have to upgrade, in other words, in the app, advanced caches are premium caches.

 

Yes, in this context they are "premium caches" for the user  😃 

 

The statement is not absolutely correct bacause you can find the cache but can not see where it is with this app.  API-licence requires that even 3th party App can not offer a link to the original cache page on the web in this case.

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3 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

... in other words, in the app, advanced caches are premium caches.

 

Let's stick to a principle.

There are no Premium caches... only Premium (or Basic, Charter) Members.

A Basic Member using the app will have limitations for type of caches, Difficulty and Terrain. While using the homepage only the PMO are out of reach (sort of).

A Premium Member will enjoy all the perks on the homepage and on the app will see all the Active caches.

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I think the point is that the wording in the app implies you must become a premium member to see caches that are >2/2, which isn't true, because you can be a basic member and see them on the website.  That was the confusion of the OP.  "Premium" is being used to label "advanced" caches incorrectly, causing people to think they must buy premium membership in order to see those caches.   I think the wording could be made clearer, as the screenshot shows.

 

In this case:

 

22 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

Started with the web page, found nearest cache no problem. But on the app its premium so cant access any of the details etc...?

 

How are premium caches chosen? And why are they visible on the website but not in the app?

 

22 hours ago, Keystone said:

I think you are mixing up "Advanced" caches and "Premium Member Only" caches.

 

This answer is wrong. The app doesn't call them advanced caches (per the screenshot), so the user was confused.  I think it may be true that the app is grouping all advanced and PMO caches under the "premium" label, So you must upgrade to see PMO caches, but in doing so you'll also unlock the ability to see 'advanced' caches. But you don't need premium to see those caches (except in the app).  I can understand it being seen as a kind of underhanded way to get more memberships.  And I'm all for encouraging people to go premium! It is worth it.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

@kunarion - I dont think I am confusing Premium caches with advanced ones, but I think the App is. 

 

The site (or more to the point, Groundpseak), has trouble with the English language.  They use words that have established meanings in ways that muddle the conversation.  And they insist on it.  I insist they cut it out, and various threads around here show why.  For example, the Geocaching phrase "Add collectibles to your collection" means nothing like what the whole English-speaking world means.  So I hope you don't mind that when you ask a general question of how "Premium Caches" are chosen, I explain that "Premium Caches" are a particular thing from "Advanced Caches" (although you seem to already know the answer :ph34r:).  I don't make up the terms, I merely (eventually) figure out the differences.

 

As for the App being an ad for the App, yes it's designed to get people to pay for membership, just like every game App does.  And like every game App, you can use most features in a less convenient way for free, but not everything.

 

If you have an "App", you have a smartphone and therefore a web browser on it.  The grayed-out caches are on the site, accessible with details, etc.

 

Edited by kunarion
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The non-official apps (apps by other developers) allow you to see "advanced" caches (D/T greater than 2), but limit you to I think 3 caches per day. You could try using one of those rather than the official app.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

The non-official apps (apps by other developers) allow you to see "advanced" caches (D/T greater than 2), but limit you to I think 3 caches per day.

 

...unless you're a Premium Member.  In which case, full functionality.

 

The 3rd party apps show more caches than the house-brand app, not the other way around.

 

Edited by Viajero Perdido

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5 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

@Cerberus1 - see attached screen shot. Strictly the app is referring to difficulty but makes a strong link to premium by saying that in order to see the cache on the app you have to upgrade, in other words, in the app, advanced caches are premium caches.

 

Thanks for that.  Still haven't made my own "extra" basic account yet (which it seems many do...) just to "check stuff".  :)

I sorta get it.  The wording assumes that everyone read all and remembers why the 2/2 was even mentioned. 

If that wording was "This geocache is advanced (difficulty and/or terrain above 2), and cannot be accessed using the basic app. Upgrade to premium"  or similar, would it have made more sense to you ?

Like most phone games,  there's "extras" that you pretty-much have to find yourself to get (with no mention anywhere).

With so many app people never entering the site  ("never" on their profile is a hint... ;-) , it's possible I guess that free access of more caches using the website instead is similar.

 

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1 hour ago, TriciaG said:

The non-official apps (apps by other developers) allow you to see "advanced" caches (D/T greater than 2), but limit you to I think 3 caches per day.

 

I see two cache limiting rules for 3th party Apps.

 

a. Basic Members shall be limited to viewing full geocache details for up to 3 geocaches per day.

b. Geocache search results for Basic Members shall be limited to Traditional Geocache and Event Cache Listings only.

 

I can't see any limits for terrain or difficulty.

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6 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

 

...unless you're a Premium Member.  In which case, full functionality.

 

The 3rd party apps show more caches than the house-brand app, not the other way around.

 

Right. But the OP isn't a PM, so there wasn't a reason to mention it. ;)

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Thanks for your repies everyone. Can the issue be simply stated as follows:

  • The benefits of being a premium member are different in the app as compared to the website - basic memebership in the app is more restrictive than it is on the website.
  • One example being that basic members can see the full details of advanced (>2/2) caches in the website, but not in the app.

 

Assuming you agree with that, my point would be that the official app and the website should be aligned. The fact that are not seems to me to be curious...

 

Tim

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, MetropolitanFox said:

Assuming you agree with that, my point would be that the official app and the website should be aligned.

 

I can not see how to make this conclusion from the facts you presented. The only "problem" is the intentionally misleading messsage made by sales department. The development of the app is funded by premium member subscriptions which explains why they use extreme marketing techniques.

Edited by arisoft
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

The benefits of being a premium member are different in the app as compared to the website

 

 

PMs can view in The Official Geocaching App, all caches that are on the web site.  Pay the Premium membership, and you're not required to use The Official App if it doesn't suit you.  There are alternative Apps.  The Official App is perfectly fine, I hardly ever run any others, and I only have one alternate on my phone now.  When the phone signal is lost, the handheld GPS excels, and the Apps struggle.  I use "Apps" as backups, especially when I don't have my handheld GPS.  The handheld GPS also doesn't contain the entire web site.  Plan ahead.

 

The web site is on the phone right now, and much of it is not used in the field.  Paying members likely don't want or need another App to display the entire web site on the phone.  Many phones have strict limits on how much the phones can store, so it's a good idea to keep The App light as possible.  Many cachers don't use or need "an App", and it's because the web site is complete.  Use a handheld GPS instead. People who want the convenience of "an App" get to pay to support an App. I agree with that plan.

 

Edited by kunarion
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4 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

Thanks for your repies everyone. Can the issue be simply stated as follows:

  • The benefits of being a premium member are different in the app as compared to the website - basic memebership in the app is more restrictive than it is on the website.
  • One example being that basic members can see the full details of advanced (>2/2) caches in the website, but not in the app.

 

Assuming you agree with that, my point would be that the official app and the website should be aligned. The fact that are not seems to me to be curious...

 

Tim

 

 

 

Your assessment of benefits is correct (although incomplete).

Your statement that this is an "issue" is reaching. There is no issue in the limitations. Limiting the functionality of a robust app to only those who financially support the company is a common business practice these days, yet still fits with the original ethos of the company owner - Geocaching will have a way for people to play for free.

 

To answer your curiosity, I can see no reason why the non-paying members should reap advanced benefits.

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4 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

Thanks for your repies everyone. Can the issue be simply stated as follows:

  • The benefits of being a premium member are different in the app as compared to the website - basic memebership in the app is more restrictive than it is on the website.
  • One example being that basic members can see the full details of advanced (>2/2) caches in the website, but not in the app.

Assuming you agree with that, my point would be that the official app and the website should be aligned. The fact that are not seems to me to be curious...

 

Tim

It's not at all curious to me !

 

I'm a bit handicapped as far as specific app restrictions go, as I have never used a phone app (apart from having GDAK as an emergency offline database backup) , I have always used the website and  a GPS. That was the way geocaching worked back in the dark ages, pre smartphone, pre app. It was how the hobby was set up, and using the website is (as far as I am aware, please let me know if anyone has better information) the only way you can set caches for people to find. You can do  that whatever your membership type, and without caches voluntarily set and owned by folk who use the website,  there would be no geocaching at all.

 

The official app, and the many unofficial ones too, are a later addition , an extra layer on top of the website which has been running for over 15 years. Please don't confuse this game with the welter of other app based games out there, it has considerably more depth to it. Not having easy access to every cache for absolute beginners who may be trying out just another app without any stake in, or understanding of, the game is a good thing, it reduces the chance of my cache (or my trackable) being moved, damaged or taken by someone who  read that caching was like pokemon and decided to give real life treasure hunting a free try.

 

Signing up to premium may be seen as committing to the game (not to mention making Groundspeak happy with a bit more income) , reading cache listings on the website and inputting co-ords manually,  or investigating other apps which you like better all  need a little extra effort and investment of time. If someone doesn't want to invest some time and  effort, fine, but I'd  rather they not take that attitude along and apply it to their treatment of the cache I placed and maintain at my expense in money, time and effort. Unlike those other apps, this is not a virtual game ... yet ... see the threads on ALC's for an idea of where the future for Groundspeak may lie .

 

 

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7 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

Assuming you agree with that, my point would be that the official app and the website should be aligned. 

Groundspeak's app is not a replacement for the web site. It was never intended as a replacement for the web site. There are all sorts of things that one can do on the web site that cannot be done with the app. I don't see any reason to expect that the app and the web site would be "aligned" on this particular detail.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, MetropolitanFox said:

Assuming you agree with that, my point would be that the official app and the website should be aligned. The fact that are not seems to me to be curious...

 

I was kinda with you until you went there...

We've had every OS made,  (the other 2/3rds mostly) and played enough games over the years to know that no app is "free".

Want a new tank, pay.   Upgrade anything, pay.      Why should this site be different ?

Invest in a handheld GPSr (like most of us had to do just to play this hobby before  '10) and play all but pm for free.

You want the convenience of an app that's just load n go,  you have a limitation that can be fixed like all other app games with an upgrade...

 

Edited by cerberus1
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On 3/30/2019 at 12:00 PM, hal-an-tow said:

.. see the threads on ALC's for an idea of where the future for Groundspeak may lie .

 

Not sure I have seen exactly what a ALC is? may I ask?

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14 minutes ago, spotter/g said:

Not sure I have seen exactly what a ALC is? may I ask?

Adventure Lab Cache

 

 

 

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On 3/29/2019 at 5:07 AM, cerberus1 said:

 

Similar to kunarion I guess,  the site has tried to keep the hobby free when and where they can.   :)

Using a GPSr and the site, you can access any cache not listed "premium member only"  free.

Using an app and the site, you can access any cache not listed "premium member only" by adding coordinates to the app - also free.

The app takes more work for employees at HQ, requires a lot more upkeep, and to be fair, you can't get everything for free...

 

Back when the in thing was to rage against the new app there were so many people who couldn't get that (or maybe simply wouldn't accept that) what they were getting (all the caches on their device). Is something that was historically a premium member privilege. 

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