I have seen the future ...

[+J Grouchy]

I log perhaps 95% of my finds (or DNFs, notes, etc.) from my phone. It CAN be tedious when I am writing more, but I generally will review my logs later from the computer and edit them for spelling errors or if there was something I wrote that doesn't make as much sense as when I originally wrote it. Sometimes I'll add stuff in as well if something else occurs to me when I'm thinking back. Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache.

[+Zepp914]

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

I agree. If the new cache notification comes out, its snowy or late, and its only a few miles away I may go for it. I'd rather wait until light or better weather to find a cache otherwise.

 

I log perhaps 95% of my finds (or DNFs, notes, etc.) from my phone. It CAN be tedious when I am writing more, but I generally will review my logs later from the computer and edit them for spelling errors or if there was something I wrote that doesn't make as much sense as when I originally wrote it. Sometimes I'll add stuff in as well if something else occurs to me when I'm thinking back. Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache.

 

Thanks. I knew I wasn't the only one.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Zepp914

[Mr.Yuck]

I log perhaps 95% of my finds (or DNFs, notes, etc.) from my phone. It CAN be tedious when I am writing more, but I generally will review my logs later from the computer and edit them for spelling errors or if there was something I wrote that doesn't make as much sense as when I originally wrote it. Sometimes I'll add stuff in as well if something else occurs to me when I'm thinking back. Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache.

 

We'll file this under "Geocaching has changed", and you being a smartphone era cacher.

 

Hold on, hold on. I'm not being a wisearse here. Seriously. But in fact, for the first 8-9 years of Geocaching 99%+ of people went home to log their finds. I have logged I'll bet 5 or 6 caches from a smartphone. I can see your point "Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache", but I'll say I've never had a problem remembering my mood or state of mind when sitting in front of a computer logging the cache 6 hours later. In the case of 10+ finds, it's usually with a beer in front of me too, I might add.

[+J Grouchy]

I log perhaps 95% of my finds (or DNFs, notes, etc.) from my phone. It CAN be tedious when I am writing more, but I generally will review my logs later from the computer and edit them for spelling errors or if there was something I wrote that doesn't make as much sense as when I originally wrote it. Sometimes I'll add stuff in as well if something else occurs to me when I'm thinking back. Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache.

 

We'll file this under "Geocaching has changed", and you being a smartphone era cacher.

 

Hold on, hold on. I'm not being a wisearse here. Seriously. But in fact, for the first 8-9 years of Geocaching 99%+ of people went home to log their finds. I have logged I'll bet 5 or 6 caches from a smartphone. I can see your point "Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache", but I'll say I've never had a problem remembering my mood or state of mind when sitting in front of a computer logging the cache 6 hours later. In the case of 10+ finds, it's usually with a beer in front of me too, I might add.

 

Ironically, the only time I have ever done a cut-n-paste log is when I was at a PC. For me, in the moment logging tends to make each log more unique.

 

But this is all coming from a guy whose best day was 14 caches, so I'm not a "power cacher" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I also prefer not to be stuck sitting at the computer to log my finds. Maybe it seems counterintuitive, but it just feels like my logs are more interesting when I haven't had six hours to think about them. There have been a few that have benefitted from time, but for me, details are clearer when I can type them out immediately then clarify later.

[+KatnissRue]

I log perhaps 95% of my finds (or DNFs, notes, etc.) from my phone. It CAN be tedious when I am writing more, but I generally will review my logs later from the computer and edit them for spelling errors or if there was something I wrote that doesn't make as much sense as when I originally wrote it. Sometimes I'll add stuff in as well if something else occurs to me when I'm thinking back. Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache.

 

We'll file this under "Geocaching has changed", and you being a smartphone era cacher.

 

Hold on, hold on. I'm not being a wisearse here. Seriously. But in fact, for the first 8-9 years of Geocaching 99%+ of people went home to log their finds. I have logged I'll bet 5 or 6 caches from a smartphone. I can see your point "Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache", but I'll say I've never had a problem remembering my mood or state of mind when sitting in front of a computer logging the cache 6 hours later. In the case of 10+ finds, it's usually with a beer in front of me too, I might add.

When I go Smarphone caching, I simply type "Will write more later." I like to type out what I want to say, without the restriction of a small typing screen. I only log it on site like that so I can remember what caches I did first, so I can accurately log travel bugs.

[+Gill & Tony]

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

I don't have a smart phone. I cache with an etrex-30. Sometimes you will have to wait a few days for my logs until I get to a computer.

[+niraD]

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field.

I'd rather type my logs with a real keyboard. That's how I've done it for almost 9 years, and I see no reason to change.

 

Even with Swype, typing on my phone is tedious. I'd rather enter a quick field note in the field, and use that to enter a real log later when I have a real keyboard. And when using a dedicated GPSr, or when geocaching in areas without cell/data coverage, logging from the field isn't even an option.

 

There have been rare occasions when I've posted a log from the field. But that has been for truly time-sensitive issues, like a cache that broke and could not be left at the cache location the way it was (NM, followed by private email to the CO). That has definitely not been petty stuff like letting everyone else know that I found it 3 minutes ago, or that I finally moved the trackable that had been languishing in the cache for weeks/months.

[Mr.Yuck]

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field.

I'd rather type my logs with a real keyboard. That's how I've done it for almost 9 years, and I see no reason to change.

 

Even with Swype, typing on my phone is tedious. I'd rather enter a quick field note in the field, and use that to enter a real log later when I have a real keyboard. And when using a dedicated GPSr, or when geocaching in areas without cell/data coverage, logging from the field isn't even an option.

 

 

Dude. I can't even stand to type on a laptop, let alone on a smartphone. I do, however have one of the few remaining smartphones on the market with a "flip out" keypad.

[+emmett]

.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

The point is you are being asked to extend a courtesy to someone who might be going out at a specific time just because an FTF or trackable is in play. In response you have basically said you do not care to be courteous. Perhaps you never thought about it that way but the lack of courtesy and honor among cachers is no small problem. There are too many cachers doing whatever they please without considering the larger community. Maybe that is not you but the post left that impression. Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

 

.

[+cerberus1]

.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

The point is you are being asked to extend a courtesy to someone who might be going out at a specific time just because an FTF or trackable is in play. In response you have basically said you do not care to be courteous. Perhaps you never thought about it that way but the lack of courtesy and honor among cachers is no small problem. There are too many cachers doing whatever they please without considering the larger community. Maybe that is not you but the post left that impression. Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

 

.

In response, I basically said that fat-fingering lengthy logs on tiny keys simply didn't work for me.

Not logging in the field is a lack of "courtesy" for someone who may be participating in a side-game?

The hobby is geocaching.

Those participating in a side-game of that hobby know there's a chance they may not be first.

We stopped counting our FTFs after 350, most before many had a smartphone...

I don't recall any guideline or even a mention that logging in when you get home is a failure to post a "timely" log.

[+RobDJr]

Regarding the original post, a few thoughts:

 

It seems a little extreme to extrapolate anything about the future of caching from such a limited survey, when most cachers never even visit the forums. At any rate, 5/26 is almost 20%, and if 20% of all cachers in the world have a stated goal of hiding a cache this year, we're in pretty good shape.

 

It is also a little bit of a stretch to assume that because a cacher didn't say outright that they have a goal of hiding a cache, it means they won't. It simply means that hiding a cache is not their main goal of the year.

 

If I had to pick a point when the "future of caching" arrived, I would say it was the day a handheld GPSr became affordable. Those things were expensive, and specifically used by the outdoor crowd for the most part, and the early days of the game reflect that. Now everyone has one, the game is available to a far wider audience, and as a result, the cache demographic shifted. I'm not going to waste time bemoaning the fact, as much as I miss the way things were when I first started caching. I'll simply work harder to find what I want to look for and adapt to a changing caching world. I call the ones who didn't adapt and left the game 'dinosaurs' because, like dinosaurs, they went extinct. Sadly, a bunch of the best cache hiders I've ever seen are among that group.

 

My stated goal for this year, as for every year since and for every year to come, is simply to have fun. If that eventually means I'll start hiding caches, then I'll hide caches. I haven't hidden any to date because I'm one of those who would, for most of the year, run into serious issues with maintaining any caches. I think about it though, and I have a few ideas on the back burner. When I get around to actually doing it, I plan to do quality stuff, like the kind of caches I enjoyed the most. Creative stories, puzzles, locations, and good containers are among the things that I will try to emulate. I even have one nearly fully formed cache plan, for a multi-stage puzzle cache with a complete storyline, puzzles of mostly high difficulty, and plans for custom containers that fit the story. This one will require mental and physical effort to complete. Someday I'll inflict it upon the caching world...

 

So, I'd say the numbers may have shifted, but the end isn't quite here yet.

[+RobDJr]

.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

The point is you are being asked to extend a courtesy to someone who might be going out at a specific time just because an FTF or trackable is in play. In response you have basically said you do not care to be courteous. Perhaps you never thought about it that way but the lack of courtesy and honor among cachers is no small problem. There are too many cachers doing whatever they please without considering the larger community. Maybe that is not you but the post left that impression. Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

 

.

 

I respectfully disagree with the idea that I owe any courtesy to the FTF crowd. I usually log my caches in a fairly timely manner, but because I try to write good logs, that could be anywhere from a few days to a few weeks (or rarely, even a month or more). Those who play the FTF game are, to me, injecting an unnecessary artificiality to the game. That's my personal viewpoint, but it means I don't play the FTF game and I don't cater to the FTF players. No lack of courtesy intended, just the reality that if you play the FTF game, you add your own rules on top of the existing concept of geocaching, and you assume the risks that follow, including the fact that those who do not play the FTF game are not likely to fall over themselves to accomodate you and save you a trip.

[+niraD]

Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

Wow. So failing to post online logs immediately using a smartphone is now considered something that degrades geocaching, a discourtesy on the order of plundering caches or replacing caches carelessly. Just... wow.

 

I respectfully disagree with the idea that I owe any courtesy to the FTF crowd. I usually log my caches in a fairly timely manner, but because I try to write good logs, that could be anywhere from a few days to a few weeks (or rarely, even a month or more). Those who play the FTF game are, to me, injecting an unnecessary artificiality to the game. That's my personal viewpoint, but it means I don't play the FTF game and I don't cater to the FTF players. No lack of courtesy intended, just the reality that if you play the FTF game, you add your own rules on top of the existing concept of geocaching, and you assume the risks that follow, including the fact that those who do not play the FTF game are not likely to fall over themselves to accomodate you and save you a trip.

+1

 

There are all sorts of expectations floating around out there in the geocaching community:

• that a CO should never archive and re-list a cache no matter how much the hide changes,
  
• that a CO should always archive and re-list a cache if anything (no matter how trivial) changes,
  
• that a CO should keep cache data completely confidential until it is published on the geocaching.com site,
  
• that a CO should actively maintain the trackables someone claims to have left in his/her caches,
  
• that a CO should regularly restock caches with valuable trade items,
  
• that seekers should always post DNFs/Finds/whatever in certain specific situations,
  
• that seekers should never post DNFs/Finds/whatever in other specific situations,
  
• that seekers should always replace full/mushy logs,
  
• that seekers should never replace full/mushy logs,
  
• etc., etc., etc.
  

But IMHO it's unreasonable to equate some of those expectations with basic things like trading fairly or returning geocaches to their original locations.

[+wmpastor]

.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

The point is you are being asked to extend a courtesy to someone who might be going out at a specific time just because an FTF or trackable is in play. In response you have basically said you do not care to be courteous. Perhaps you never thought about it that way but the lack of courtesy and honor among cachers is no small problem. There are too many cachers doing whatever they please without considering the larger community. Maybe that is not you but the post left that impression. Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

 

.

In response, I basically said that fat-fingering lengthy logs on tiny keys simply didn't work for me.

Not logging in the field is a lack of "courtesy" for someone who may be participating in a side-game?

The hobby is geocaching.

Those participating in a side-game of that hobby know there's a chance they may not be first.

We stopped counting our FTFs after 350, most before many had a smartphone...

I don't recall any guideline or even a mention that logging in when you get home is a failure to post a "timely" log.

 

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

[+cerberus1]

.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

The point is you are being asked to extend a courtesy to someone who might be going out at a specific time just because an FTF or trackable is in play. In response you have basically said you do not care to be courteous. Perhaps you never thought about it that way but the lack of courtesy and honor among cachers is no small problem. There are too many cachers doing whatever they please without considering the larger community. Maybe that is not you but the post left that impression. Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

 

.

In response, I basically said that fat-fingering lengthy logs on tiny keys simply didn't work for me.

Not logging in the field is a lack of "courtesy" for someone who may be participating in a side-game?

The hobby is geocaching.

Those participating in a side-game of that hobby know there's a chance they may not be first.

We stopped counting our FTFs after 350, most before many had a smartphone...

I don't recall any guideline or even a mention that logging in when you get home is a failure to post a "timely" log.

 

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

You're assuming that others will go after anything in an area...

As someone who wouldn't do those 99.9% (C&Ds mostly...) of caches within the area I was headed, that's a terrible idea.

Caches I head to may not be found up to a week since published, by one who may or may not be participating in the FTF side-game.

If you don't know if anyone's interested, or when they'd go for it, when would be a good time to finally access it?

I've been logging when I get home since we started. It's not "highly inconvenient" at all.

[+niraD]

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

What should I do if I'm "not in the FTF game" and I'm holding a blank log in my hand? Maybe it's a replacement log. Maybe I'm actually the FTF. Can I mark it found in my field notes? Or would that be considered "rude" by someone who expects instantaneous in-the-field smartphone logging from everyone? Am I obligated to flip over to the log data to check whether the cache has been found before deciding? What if the log data I have downloaded includes only DNFs and notes? How will I ever know? How will I ever decide?

 

Or I could just sign the log, mark the cache as found in my field notes, and post an online log when it's convenient. Just like I do with any other cache.

[+niraD]

And I suppose it goes without saying that any one who is "in the FTF game" must participate in the instantaneous in-the-field smartphone logging ritual. Not participating in this ritual is apparently considered "rude".

[+JohnCNA]

I use the voice to text feature on my phone and post to an online field note while at each cache. It makes it easy to state a few relevant details and so I can remember which one is which later on. Back at the computer at home, I can edit and embellish my logs. I stopped using a trail notebook once I saw how easy this was, right from within my caching app on the phone.

[+cerberus1]

And I suppose it goes without saying that any one who is "in the FTF game" must participate in the instantaneous in-the-field smartphone logging ritual. Not participating in this ritual is apparently considered "rude".

First I ever heard of this nonsense was a while back in these forums.

In much of my area, we're lucky if we can call or get online in the field and I'm sure not typing away while driving...

Those panicking FTFers wondering wouldn't get that helpful courtesy until I'm home anyway.

[+Mudfrog]

Ok yeah my memory sucks. If I didn't log from the field, I might forget if the wet mushy log was in the bison tube hanging from the tree or the bison tube magnetically attached to a guard rail. I can find two caches at 4PM and get them confused by 9PM. Boring geocaches blend together and just aren't memorable. Great caches I will remember for sure. Yes I can filter out micro and small caches and I do so on distant trips. When I am near home, I am not ashamed to search for quick C&Ds to get my fix.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

 

I know i'm in the minority but i just don't care to use touch screen devices. My fingers don't work very well on a tablet, much less my phone. I've always taken a notepad with me to record caches found/dnfed and anything that stands out. Used to be a bit of writing to record everything some years ago but it's real easy these days with all the same ole same ole caches out there. About the only thing that stands out nowadays is coming across alot of wet logsheets. Hmmm, don't guess i should use the term stand out since wet logsheets are pretty well a common thing to find these days.

[Mr.Yuck]

.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

The point is you are being asked to extend a courtesy to someone who might be going out at a specific time just because an FTF or trackable is in play. In response you have basically said you do not care to be courteous. Perhaps you never thought about it that way but the lack of courtesy and honor among cachers is no small problem. There are too many cachers doing whatever they please without considering the larger community. Maybe that is not you but the post left that impression. Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

 

.

In response, I basically said that fat-fingering lengthy logs on tiny keys simply didn't work for me.

Not logging in the field is a lack of "courtesy" for someone who may be participating in a side-game?

The hobby is geocaching.

Those participating in a side-game of that hobby know there's a chance they may not be first.

We stopped counting our FTFs after 350, most before many had a smartphone...

I don't recall any guideline or even a mention that logging in when you get home is a failure to post a "timely" log.

 

First of all, there is an obvious misunderstanding on the part of Emmet, the OP, and the post of Cerbereus1. Cerberus1 was merely stating he tried the smartphone logging from the field thing, and didn't like it. Never did he imply he didn't log his finds or TB retrievals in a timely fashion.

 

 

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

 

Really now? The longest tenured FTF hound in my area, who started going after them in like 2005 (I can't believe he's still into that thing all these years, but whatever floats his boat ) Has purposely "sandbagged" his FTF logs, and *NEVER* logs until after the 2nd finder, or even when someone beyond that is the first to log online. Heck, in some area's he'd probably have his signature ripped out of the logbook.

[+RobDJr]

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

 

This is called a Sense of Entitlement.

 

Please explain to me why I should change the way I play the game to accommodate you in your little side game?

 

If you're going to play at FTF's, you should be prepared for not being the FTF. Whether you actually are or not makes no difference to me. But to suggest that I have to go about my caching day with your needs firmly in the front of my mind? Entitlement. Maybe even arrogance.

[+emmett]

.

 

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

 

This is called a Sense of Entitlement.

 

Please explain to me why I should change the way I play the game to accommodate you in your little side game?

 

If you're going to play at FTF's, you should be prepared for not being the FTF. Whether you actually are or not makes no difference to me. But to suggest that I have to go about my caching day with your needs firmly in the front of my mind? Entitlement. Maybe even arrogance.

 

This is called selfishness.

 

You have made it quite clear it is all about you with no need to consider anyone else.

 

If you are going to participate in a game in which others are participating, you should know that others would hope you value courtesy and fair play. Whether you are considerate or not won't affect me as I am not playing "the little side game." But to suggest you need not think of anyone else is the very definition of selfishness. Maybe even arrogance.

 

You have been a member for six years, have found 1,800 caches, and have placed not so much as one cache. You are proving my original point ... the takers are growing while the givers are going.

 

.

[+wmpastor]

.

 

What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip.

Tried it. Hated it. As someone who usually leaves a lot more than a sentence or two, got annoying quick.

 

I've never considered STF or failure to grab a trackable a wasted trip.

- The location is what I search for.

Hopefully the hobby hasn't degraded that far...

I'm sure most realize that life goes on even with a 3rd-to-find and no trackable in sight.

 

The point is you are being asked to extend a courtesy to someone who might be going out at a specific time just because an FTF or trackable is in play. In response you have basically said you do not care to be courteous. Perhaps you never thought about it that way but the lack of courtesy and honor among cachers is no small problem. There are too many cachers doing whatever they please without considering the larger community. Maybe that is not you but the post left that impression. Plundering stash, failing to re-hide a cache carefully, refusing to post a DNF, thoughtless hiding of caches, failure to post timely logs (when possible) - these are all behaviors that degrade Geocaching.

 

.

In response, I basically said that fat-fingering lengthy logs on tiny keys simply didn't work for me.

Not logging in the field is a lack of "courtesy" for someone who may be participating in a side-game?

The hobby is geocaching.

Those participating in a side-game of that hobby know there's a chance they may not be first.

We stopped counting our FTFs after 350, most before many had a smartphone...

I don't recall any guideline or even a mention that logging in when you get home is a failure to post a "timely" log.

 

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

You're assuming that others will go after anything in an area...

As someone who wouldn't do those 99.9% (C&Ds mostly...) of caches within the area I was headed, that's a terrible idea.

Caches I head to may not be found up to a week since published, by one who may or may not be participating in the FTF side-game.

If you don't know if anyone's interested, or when they'd go for it, when would be a good time to finally access it?

I've been logging when I get home since we started. It's not "highly inconvenient" at all.

A few hours later, fine. Some have said they log days or weeks (!) later. I'd find that takes more effort than logging the same day.

 

As a courtesy to locals who go for an FTF, I usually log at least "more later" in the field when I get an FTF. They do the same. It's courteous. If it's not an FTF, log anytime.

Edited January 11, 2015 by wmpastor

[Mr.Yuck]

 

A few hours later, fine. Some have said they log days or weeks (!) later. I'd find that takes more effort than logging the same day.

 

As a courtesy to locals who go for an FTF, I usually log at least "more later" in the field when I get an FTF. They do the same. It's courteous. If it's not an FTF, log anytime.

 

Pruning massive quotes. I know there are some "old timers" around here who have said they often find themselves weeks or months behind on logging. I kind of do that myself in Waymarking, I might log them like 6 months later. I would think it's pretty much unheard of to log your FTF on a geocache like a few weeks later.

[+wmpastor]

 

A few hours later, fine. Some have said they log days or weeks (!) later. I'd find that takes more effort than logging the same day.

 

As a courtesy to locals who go for an FTF, I usually log at least "more later" in the field when I get an FTF. They do the same. It's courteous. If it's not an FTF, log anytime.

 

Pruning massive quotes. I know there are some "old timers" around here who have said they often find themselves weeks or months behind on logging. I kind of do that myself in Waymarking, I might log them like 6 months later. I would think it's pretty much unheard of to log your FTF on a geocache like a few weeks later.

Probably true, although hours later can inconvenience someone who is busy and only wishes to take the drive if there's an FTF possibility, so my personal standard is to log ASAP.

 

Some have said they stopped counting FTFS or don't care about them at all - such a person could log much later (and leave others in the dark).

[+WarNinjas]

I log perhaps 95% of my finds (or DNFs, notes, etc.) from my phone. It CAN be tedious when I am writing more, but I generally will review my logs later from the computer and edit them for spelling errors or if there was something I wrote that doesn't make as much sense as when I originally wrote it. Sometimes I'll add stuff in as well if something else occurs to me when I'm thinking back. Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache.

I agree with this 100%. Probably because I started out as a phone cacher. I almost always log from my phone unless it is a long day hike for 1 or 2 caches I have been wanting to find then I will save it until I get home. The one time I went out with a group hiking around a mountain for a bunch of caches and I didn't have cell coverage, I waited until I got home. I found I didn't have much special to say about some of the hides as I couldn't remember much about that one. I guess if I had done it in the old days I would have been prepared to write notes somewhere or something.

[+WarNinjas]

I guess it helps that I don't have a problem typing on my phone any more then I would with a keyboard at home. I can write as long of a log as I want in the field and upload pics there with no problems. If say I had a old phone with only a number pad that I had to select each letter or something I would wait until I got home.

[+wmpastor]

I log perhaps 95% of my finds (or DNFs, notes, etc.) from my phone. It CAN be tedious when I am writing more, but I generally will review my logs later from the computer and edit them for spelling errors or if there was something I wrote that doesn't make as much sense as when I originally wrote it. Sometimes I'll add stuff in as well if something else occurs to me when I'm thinking back. Nothing captures my mood or state of mind, though, like logging immediately after finding the cache.

I agree with this 100%. Probably because I started out as a phone cacher. I almost always log from my phone unless it is a long day hike for 1 or 2 caches I have been wanting to find then I will save it until I get home. The one time I went out with a group hiking around a mountain for a bunch of caches and I didn't have cell coverage, I waited until I got home. I found I didn't have much special to say about some of the hides as I couldn't remember much about that one. I guess if I had done it in the old days I would have been prepared to write notes somewhere or something.

And let's not forget the convenience of uploading photos from a phone.

[+WarNinjas]

As far as the FTF quick posting, It is nice if someone does it but not expected at all. Around here the regular FTF group will post at least a FTF More later. It is helpful to me because we are doing a crazy long streak. I only find a cache close to home on my days off. If a new one pops up in the area and I might get a FTF on it I might go for it. If I get there and someone has already found it I don't feel bad because I didn't get the FTF but feel bad because I could have saved a close one to home for the streak. I always log them anyways as I have already taken the time to find it.

In the case I am second to find I will usually give the FTF time to log it first. I would find it odd if they waited a month or something to do so but it is up to that cacher.

[+niraD]

And let's not forget the convenience of uploading photos from a phone.

I find it much easier to sort through photos, pick the best ones, and crop/edit them when I'm at my computer. I've got image viewing and editing software on my phone, but it's much easier on a real computer.

[+RobDJr]

This is called selfishness.

 

You have made it quite clear it is all about you with no need to consider anyone else.

 

If you are going to participate in a game in which others are participating, you should know that others would hope you value courtesy and fair play. Whether you are considerate or not won't affect me as I am not playing "the little side game." But to suggest you need not think of anyone else is the very definition of selfishness. Maybe even arrogance.

 

You have been a member for six years, have found 1,800 caches, and have placed not so much as one cache. You are proving my original point ... the takers are growing while the givers are going.

 

 

My brand of selfishness: For the most part, writing good logs that often get email comments from those who read them. Doing minor cache maintenance such as replacing full logsheets, torn baggies, emptying water out, etc, without being asked. Offering to help cachers who have needed assistance with their caches. I'm not much for the swag game, so I don't trade, and I even once passed up a hundred year old silver dollar that the CO said was to be taken by the next finder regardless of trade value. And, just as important, NOT hiding any caches because circumstances in my life would prevent me from being a good owner (for a large part of the year I would be unable to do any maintenance).

 

My consideration of others and fair play: I try to respect cache owner wishes. I don't trespass knowingly. I replace caches as found, or if I find a cache out of place, in the most likely place and I note that in the log. If I find a problem, I fix it if I can or make a note of it in the log. On more than one occasion when out caching with a group and an FTF was on the line, I let others claim the FTF when I actually made the find, simply because they value it and I don't. And I have, on more than one occasion, delayed going after a cache because I knew it hadn't been found yet. I don't do trackables much either for mostly the same reason as I don't hide caches, because I might find myself in a situation where I am unable to return it for a long time, but when I find one that is languishing in a difficult cache I liberate it.

 

My ability to cache at all is limited for a great deal of the year, for the same reasons I don't hide caches and don't pick up trackables. So when I can cache, I cache. I don't let something that I see as trivial (the FTF) dictate my fun. As I've said, if you play that game, you know the risks and need to accept them.

 

I do not use my phone to do logs. Why would I? In the heat, humidity, and bugs of summer? In rain? In the cold of winter? Do you have any clue how many "perfect" days there are that I have the opportunity to cache on? To be honest, picking out a message on the phone is the last thing I'm going to be doing out in the field. I hike, I find, I enjoy the company of those who might be with me, or the solitude if I'm alone. That is the whole reason I got into caching in the first place, not to, while in the woods, find myself still tangled up in the web of things I tried to leave behind in the parking area!

 

You're right. I really am selfish, unfair, and inconsiderate.

 

Look, I wasn't saying I'm going to intentionally go out of my way to sandbag an FTF'er by witholding my log until they find out the hard way. That, I agree, would be rude at the least (because it was done with intent). But, with apologies, I am not going to allow the FTF game to dictate my caching in any way. I log when I can, and usually in a fairly timely manner, but once again those pesky circumstances in life come into play and I might not be able to. Even so, my logs are rarely same day.

 

If you are going to define a "taker" as someone who finds and doesn't hide, yes I am a taker. I try to give back in other ways, and as I said in an earlier post, I do have a few cache ideas on the back burner for "someday". Do you really want me hiding caches when I know I won't be able to do anything about any issues or problems for long stretches of time? Is someone who refrains from hiding for this reason worse than someone who hides anyway and leaves a string of poorly conceived and unmaintained caches littering the area?

 

Truth be told, I highly doubt anyone who has been caching for years can be defined completely as a taker. I suspect the issue the original post speaks of has a great deal more to do with the influx of new cachers, many of whom are not cut from the same "outdoor enthusiast" mold as cachers from past years were, and many of whom are not invested in the hobby the way cachers like you and I may be. This, unfortunately, has the effect of changing the types of caches and (what many would call) the quality of caches being placed.

Edited January 11, 2015 by RobDJr

[+Mudfrog]

I agree with RobDJr's post above.

 

First off, it doesn't matter one bit whether he's placed any caches. There are many other ways to contribute to our hobby so this shouldn't have even been brought up.

 

On logging in the field, i now have a smart phone but rarely log anything with it. There's been a few times that i have logged something like, "found it, will post more later", but i normally don't even do that. I'm not tech savvy and dislike trying to type anything out on my phone. Another thing is that i log my finds in the order i get them. If i find 25 caches, and number 15 happens to be a first to find, then it'll just have to wait. As far as i know, this has never caused a problem since most of my ftfs have been in our area and get logged quickly anyway. No matter what my situation, i always try to log my caches as soon as i can.

 

On sandbagging on purpose, people who do it pretty much only want to stir up drama. We're not all going to agree but we should all try to be repectful to others who play our game. Intentionally waiting to log is mean spirited and shows no respect for others who play the little sidegame.

[+niraD]

A few hours later, fine. Some have said they log days or weeks (!) later. I'd find that takes more effort than logging the same day.

Sometimes I'm offline for a week at a time. Sometimes I do some geocaching during those camping trips. When I get back, I am not going to log all my finds immediately. There will be much more important things for me to do.

 

So yeah, sometimes it's a week or two, even when I'm not really behind in my logging.

[+L0ne.R]

I agree with RobDJr's post above.

 

First off, it doesn't matter one bit whether he's placed any caches. There are many other ways to contribute to our hobby so this shouldn't have even been brought up.

 

 

I agree too.

 

There are many 'givers' who don't contribute much to the game except to spew out leaky containers and provide more smileys.

 

Then there are 'takers' (non-hiders) who contribute more to the game by providing good feedback in their logs, and who don't see every find as simply another notch in their geocache count.

Edited January 12, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+ArtieD]

My, how the sense of entitlement in some cachers has grown over the years!

 

I started in 2006 and back then and for years after, the FTF race was just that. You went in, not knowing if you'd be first, second, third or tenth. It was part of the side game.

 

Enter the smart phone cachers* into the mix.

 

Now, with smart phones, there can be instantaneous logging! Wow! Whoopie! Now people can log that FTF instantly! Problem is, the ability to do so have made the FTF game players essentially pansies. Oh no...we can't hurt their pwecious feewings by making them discover on their own if they got FTF or not! No way! These poor souls have to be placated. The mere fact that they still got a find on a new cache isn't enough for them. Noooo...unless they KNOW that they have a chance for first, the cache find itself is irrelevant to them.

 

I like caching. I liked it in the older days and I like it now, but one thing that makes me wish I had a DeLorean so I could go back in time are whiny FTF hounds. Suck it up, Buttercup.

 

*I do use my smart phone ocasionally, so this isn't a slam against smart phone cachers in general.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Arthur & Trillian

[+Uncle Alaska]

.

 

There's a solution to this quick-posting issue that seems to meet everyone's needs: if you're not in the FTF game and can't post quickly, just skip the unfound cache until tomorrow. The other 99.99% of caches in your region are available. Find the new cache tomorrow after the FTF, and log it 6 months later if you wish. (The delayed logging to me seems highly inconvenient).

 

This is called a Sense of Entitlement.

 

Please explain to me why I should change the way I play the game to accommodate you in your little side game?

 

If you're going to play at FTF's, you should be prepared for not being the FTF. Whether you actually are or not makes no difference to me. But to suggest that I have to go about my caching day with your needs firmly in the front of my mind? Entitlement. Maybe even arrogance.

 

This is called selfishness.

 

You have made it quite clear it is all about you with no need to consider anyone else.

 

If you are going to participate in a game in which others are participating, you should know that others would hope you value courtesy and fair play. Whether you are considerate or not won't affect me as I am not playing "the little side game." But to suggest you need not think of anyone else is the very definition of selfishness. Maybe even arrogance.

 

You have been a member for six years, have found 1,800 caches, and have placed not so much as one cache. You are proving my original point ... the takers are growing while the givers are going.

 

.

 

Selfishness? You mean like taking all your toys and going home?

[+FourFunKiwis]

In response to the original post, I was one of those who listed hiding our first cache as a family, and we have done that, but also - after the weekend just gone, we're not in a hurry to hide our second. The reason being the children (4 & 6), felt the need to clean up and stock up the caches we went to, to make them more fun for the following families. I love that the kids have taken on these attitudes, but until DD & I manage to stock pile the loom bracelets/handmade swag, that and the one we're actually responsible for maintaining is plenty enough

[+Team Microdot]

The mere fact that they still got a find on a new cache isn't enough for them. Noooo...unless they KNOW that they have a chance for first, the cache find itself is irrelevant to them.

 

Your post seems to center on this one belief.

 

How do you extrapolate from the idea that some cachers appreciate a quick note from the FTF'er that cache finds are irrelevant to those cachers?

[+Uncle Alaska]

The mere fact that they still got a find on a new cache isn't enough for them. Noooo...unless they KNOW that they have a chance for first, the cache find itself is irrelevant to them.

 

Your post seems to center on this one belief.

 

How do you extrapolate from the idea that some cachers appreciate a quick note from the FTF'er that cache finds are irrelevant to those cachers?

 

I see it all the time in my area...we have some serious FTF hounds. After the first person logs (when they do it fast) a cache will sometimes sit there for days or weeks before another person logs it. Usually it is someone who is visiting the area as second to find. I am not really into the FTF game (I don't even know how many I might have) but I found a particular cache first once. There was a note from someone (not even from the area) a month later. A DNF four months later. And second to find over five months later. Going on eight months now and still no third to find. And this is not out in the sticks either, I live in a city with a regional population of 5-6 hundred thousand people.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Uncle Alaska

[+Team Microdot]

The mere fact that they still got a find on a new cache isn't enough for them. Noooo...unless they KNOW that they have a chance for first, the cache find itself is irrelevant to them.

 

Your post seems to center on this one belief.

 

How do you extrapolate from the idea that some cachers appreciate a quick note from the FTF'er that cache finds are irrelevant to those cachers?

 

I see it all the time in my area...we have some serious FTF hounds. After the first person logs (when they do it fast) a cache will sometimes sit there for days or weeks before another person logs it. Usually it is someone who is visiting the area as second to find. I am not really into the FTF game (I don't even know how many I might have) but I found a particular cache first once. There was a note from someone (not even from the area) a month later. A DNF four months later. And second to find over five months later. Going on eight months now and still no third to find.

 

Sorry - I don't see how this relates to my question.

[+Uncle Alaska]

The mere fact that they still got a find on a new cache isn't enough for them. Noooo...unless they KNOW that they have a chance for first, the cache find itself is irrelevant to them.

 

Your post seems to center on this one belief.

 

How do you extrapolate from the idea that some cachers appreciate a quick note from the FTF'er that cache finds are irrelevant to those cachers?

 

I see it all the time in my area...we have some serious FTF hounds. After the first person logs (when they do it fast) a cache will sometimes sit there for days or weeks before another person logs it. Usually it is someone who is visiting the area as second to find. I am not really into the FTF game (I don't even know how many I might have) but I found a particular cache first once. There was a note from someone (not even from the area) a month later. A DNF four months later. And second to find over five months later. Going on eight months now and still no third to find.

 

Sorry - I don't see how this relates to my question.

 

I think what they (and I) am trying to say is: Once the cache is FTF by someone, the others don't really care about the cache. That's the way I read it when you take the whole paragraph they wrote in context (and not just the part you extracted).

 

Of course, when talking about context, not even sure how this thread has veered so much to the FTF game and phone logging from the OP's original statement.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Uncle Alaska

[+Team Microdot]

The mere fact that they still got a find on a new cache isn't enough for them. Noooo...unless they KNOW that they have a chance for first, the cache find itself is irrelevant to them.

 

Your post seems to center on this one belief.

 

How do you extrapolate from the idea that some cachers appreciate a quick note from the FTF'er that cache finds are irrelevant to those cachers?

 

I see it all the time in my area...we have some serious FTF hounds. After the first person logs (when they do it fast) a cache will sometimes sit there for days or weeks before another person logs it. Usually it is someone who is visiting the area as second to find. I am not really into the FTF game (I don't even know how many I might have) but I found a particular cache first once. There was a note from someone (not even from the area) a month later. A DNF four months later. And second to find over five months later. Going on eight months now and still no third to find.

 

Sorry - I don't see how this relates to my question.

 

I think what they (and I) am trying to say is: Once the cache is FTF by someone, the others don't really care about the cache.

 

Well that isn't quite what Arthur & Trillian said and even if it were, I still don't get how such a conclusion is arrived at.

[+ArtieD]

How do you extrapolate from the idea that some cachers appreciate a quick note from the FTF'er that cache finds are irrelevant to those cachers?

 

My point is that the FTF hounds that get angry if there isn't an immediate note saying someone has gotten FTF, claiming they "wasted their time" going after the cache pretty much say that going after the cache and getting a find wasn't as important as the FTF. The sheer act of getting out on a new adventure is irrelevant to them. FTF is the only thing that matters, which brings me to this point...

 

I see it all the time in my area...we have some serious FTF hounds. After the first person logs (when they do it fast) a cache will sometimes sit there for days or weeks before another person logs it. Usually it is someone who is visiting the area as second to find. I am not really into the FTF game (I don't even know how many I might have) but I found a particular cache first once. There was a note from someone (not even from the area) a month later. A DNF four months later. And second to find over five months later. Going on eight months now and still no third to find. And this is not out in the sticks either, I live in a city with a regional population of 5-6 hundred thousand people.

 

Uncle Alaska makes great points. After FTF, many caches in my area sit for days and weeks on end before another find. If the FTF hounds actually cared about the caches beyond the FTF, they'd go after the caches in a bit more timely manner, don't you think? Why is a cache soooo worthy of attention when it's not been found yet, but the minute it gets found it gets relegated to the "one year I might go after it" file for so many?

[+ArtieD]

The main, underlying question is this:

 

Why should cachers be expected to immediately log a FTF to placate FTF hounds?

 

As for me, I think it boils down to entitlement. Don't give me this crap about courtesy. It's only done to protect the FTF hounds' delicate sensibilities. Heaven forbid they have to discover things on their own.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Arthur & Trillian

[+Team Microdot]

Uncle Alaska makes great points. After FTF, many caches in my area sit for days and weeks on end before another find. If the FTF hounds actually cared about the caches beyond the FTF, they'd go after the caches in a bit more timely manner, don't you think? Why is a cache soooo worthy of attention when it's not been found yet, but the minute it gets found it gets relegated to the "one year I might go after it" file for so many?

 

So the value of any given cache to any given cacher is measured solely on the amount of time that has passed between it being published and them finding it?

 

And all the cachers who don't find a cache immediately after publication by that action classify that cache as irrelevant to them?

[+ArtieD]

Uncle Alaska makes great points. After FTF, many caches in my area sit for days and weeks on end before another find. If the FTF hounds actually cared about the caches beyond the FTF, they'd go after the caches in a bit more timely manner, don't you think? Why is a cache soooo worthy of attention when it's not been found yet, but the minute it gets found it gets relegated to the "one year I might go after it" file for so many?

 

So the value of any given cache to any given cacher is measured solely on the amount of time that has passed between it being published and them finding it?

 

And all the cachers who don't find a cache immediately after publication by that action classify that cache as irrelevant to them?

 

Sometimes, yes. To FTF hounds, even more likely.

[+emmett]

.

 

The main, underlying question is this:

 

Why should cachers be expected to immediately log a FTF to placate FTF hounds?

 

As for me, I think it boils down to entitlement. Don't give me this crap about courtesy. It's only done to protect the FTF hounds' delicate sensibilities. Heaven forbid they have to discover things on their own.

 

No, that is NOT the main underlying question. It is this ...

 

If you have made the first find and have capability to log it on the site or quickly at home, and know one or more others might like to know if the FTF is no longer in play, why would you refuse? If you have information you can pass on that may be useful to someone else, why not?

 

No one is saying "FTF hounds" are demanding it. It's not a rule, it is an act of consideration for another (maybe several others). Deny it all you want, but this is merely about courtesy and you have made quite clear courtesy is "crap" to you.

 

I recall a post a while back in which someone proclaimed something like cachers are generally better than average people. Really? Plunder stash, don't rehide caches carefully, refuse to post a log so the owner will know you visited, play the game however you choose and everyone else be damned, refuse to discuss legitimate issues posted online but cast insults instead. Better than average? Not so much.

 

The original post was a comment on the decline of quality in caching. The many subsequent insulting posts tend to prove the point. I could be wrong but I'm guessing that, if I made the post in 2006, the resulting tone of the subsequent posts would have been much different.

 

.

[+J Grouchy]

The original post was a comment on the decline of quality in caching. The many subsequent insulting posts tend to prove the point. I could be wrong but I'm guessing that, if I made the post in 2006, the resulting tone of the subsequent posts would have been much different.

 

.

 

Doubtful, since the original post seems to be fairly accusatory and condescending. Most folks wouldn't respond well to that in 2006 either.

[+Team Microdot]

Uncle Alaska makes great points. After FTF, many caches in my area sit for days and weeks on end before another find. If the FTF hounds actually cared about the caches beyond the FTF, they'd go after the caches in a bit more timely manner, don't you think? Why is a cache soooo worthy of attention when it's not been found yet, but the minute it gets found it gets relegated to the "one year I might go after it" file for so many?

 

So the value of any given cache to any given cacher is measured solely on the amount of time that has passed between it being published and them finding it?

 

And all the cachers who don't find a cache immediately after publication by that action classify that cache as irrelevant to them?

 

Sometimes, yes. To FTF hounds, even more likely.

 

Really?

 

You honestly believe that any cacher who doesn't find a cache immediately after publication is classifying that cache as irrelevant to them?

 

Surely not!