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I have seen the future ...


emmett

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If you are going to define a "taker" as someone who finds and doesn't hide, yes I am a taker. I try to give back in other ways, and as I said in an earlier post, I do have a few cache ideas on the back burner for "someday". Do you really want me hiding caches when I know I won't be able to do anything about any issues or problems for long stretches of time? Is someone who refrains from hiding for this reason worse than someone who hides anyway and leaves a string of poorly conceived and unmaintained caches littering the area?

 

I in no way think someone who finds caches and don't hide as a taker. In fact they might be a giver. I have gotten to know many of the local cachers in my area over the years. Some (Like us) enjoy hiding caches as much as finding them. What do the hiders want? People to find there caches. I hear more from cachers that like to hide them that there are no places left to hide good caches, Way more then I have ever heard anyone say something like "can you believe they have found 1500 caches and never placed one" Actually I don't think I have ever heard that.

 

As far as this thread if I was a moderator I would probably have locked it by now. How much more can we talk about when a FTF'er should log there find online. There is no rule and as I would find it helpful I would never expect someone else to change up how they play and I just hope they are enjoying themselves and keep on playing.

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In my experience, those in my local area who commonly race out for FTF expect the courtesy of their fellow FTF fans in the form of a note at their earlest convenience post FTF.
And that's great, as long as it's an expectation among friends who all post smartphone logs in the field. And as long as someone who geocaches the old-fashioned way (posting online logs from a regular computer some time after the fact) isn't harassed for not posting smartphone logs in the field.
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In my experience, those in my local area who commonly race out for FTF expect the courtesy of their fellow FTF fans in the form of a note at their earlest convenience post FTF.
And that's great, as long as it's an expectation among friends who all post smartphone logs in the field. And as long as someone who geocaches the old-fashioned way (posting online logs from a regular computer some time after the fact) isn't harassed for not posting smartphone logs in the field.

 

I expressed my view on this in post #146.

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It would seem to me that, within the very specific circle of cachers who go for the FTF, logging ASAP could reasonably be called an expectation (a courtesy at the least). That, I can understand.

 

But extending that expectation beyond the borders of that circle is where I feel it crosses over into entitlement, because that is where it begins to sound like "I play the FTF game. I expect everyone to play by the rules of the FTF game" (as opposed to, within the FTF circle, "We play the FTF game and we expect everyone who plays the FTF game to play by these rules").

 

I would argue that when speaking of things like expectations, courtesy, and doing things for the commmon good of the group, you are speaking of the group as a whole, not any specific subset of that group. And by the same token, speaking of things that degrade the game would be best viewed from the perspective of what degrades the game as a whole, not merely what degrades the game for any specific subset of the game while leaving the rest of the game mostly or wholly unaffected.

 

It is mostly a moot point when speaking of me specifically, or cachers like me who don't care about FTF's. I have (I think) nine FTF's, and every one of them was a product of sheer coincidence and happenstance. Pure accidents. The likelihood of me getting an FTF and in any way affecting anyone else with my slower logging habits is incredibly low.

 

Although this is somewhat tangential to the original post, since a great deal of the argument over logging FTF's arises from the impact of smartphones and the ability to log rapidly from the field, I wonder if there have been similar arguments over the years when things happened that changed the way people could cache. Two that come to mind are: posting of parking coordinates (which was once a rarity if it was done at all), and use of the geochecker.

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In my experience, those in my local area who commonly race out for FTF expect the courtesy of their fellow FTF fans in the form of a note at their earliest convenience post FTF.

 

Why such fuss about this? If it's inconvenient to post from a phone, then post at your earliest convenience from the computer when you get home.

 

People seem to be interpreting this as if "at their earliest convenience" means "at their earliest possibility". Is it not convenient? Fine - then do it when it IS convenient.

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People seem to be interpreting this as if "at their earliest convenience" means "at their earliest possibility". Is it not convenient? Fine - then do it when it IS convenient.
I think that side of this discussion started with post #47: "What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip."

 

The "save someone a wasted trip" comment got things started.

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People seem to be interpreting this as if "at their earliest convenience" means "at their earliest possibility". Is it not convenient? Fine - then do it when it IS convenient.
I think that side of this discussion started with post #47: "What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip."

 

The "save someone a wasted trip" comment got things started.

 

I think it's fair to say it's only a "wasted trip" if the sole purpose of the trip was to be FTF. I suppose that's what the person who wrote it meant...but folks piled on too quickly.

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People seem to be interpreting this as if "at their earliest convenience" means "at their earliest possibility". Is it not convenient? Fine - then do it when it IS convenient.
I think that side of this discussion started with post #47: "What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip."

 

The "save someone a wasted trip" comment got things started.

 

I think it's fair to say it's only a "wasted trip" if the sole purpose of the trip was to be FTF. I suppose that's what the person who wrote it meant...but folks piled on too quickly.

Exactly.

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I think it's fair to say it's only a "wasted trip" if the sole purpose of the trip was to be FTF. I suppose that's what the person who wrote it meant...but folks piled on too quickly.

 

That is what I meant. Our reviewer tends to publish new caches after dark. I prefer to find caches during the day. If I see that someone has found it before I throw my jacket on and get to the car, it saves me a trip. I'll eventually get that cache at a more convenient time.

 

Also, I don't care about being "FTF". I only care if there is a prize.

Edited by Zepp914
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People seem to be interpreting this as if "at their earliest convenience" means "at their earliest possibility". Is it not convenient? Fine - then do it when it IS convenient.
I think that side of this discussion started with post #47: "What I don't get is why people hate logging from the field. Logging a FTF immediately or a TB retrieval may save someone a wasted trip."

 

The "save someone a wasted trip" comment got things started.

 

I think it's fair to say it's only a "wasted trip" if the sole purpose of the trip was to be FTF. I suppose that's what the person who wrote it meant...but folks piled on too quickly.

 

If the only thing a person cares about is getting the FTF, then yes, they could consider it a wasted trip. The thing is, that person should realize that they aren't going to get every FTF out there. No matter how quickly others log the find, there's still a chance they won't be first. It would be normal for a FTF player to be disappointed at this point but they need to quickly get over it and go on with their lives.

 

As i said above, purposely sandbagging with intention of causing angst is what i dislike. For me, it's not so much that i "wasted" my time on a cache but that i feel we now have a player who doesn't really care about our hobby or it's players.

 

I think this is only a part of what the OP was trying to convey in his opening post. There are just so many people playing these days who don't value the ideas that were once prevalent back in the day. Nowadays there are more people sandbagging, more people that think they are entitled, more people playing to get the smiley at any cost, more people placing junk to make smiley getting easier, more people thinking of our hobby as a competition, etc,,,. Unfortunately, there's just not a whole lot that can be done to get things back to how they were. Those who value the old ways have to figure out other ways to enjoy geocaching. If they can't, then they may just have to leave the hobby behind.

Edited by Mudfrog
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If the only thing a person cares about is getting the FTF, then yes, they could consider it a wasted trip. The thing is, that person should realize that they aren't going to get every FTF out there. No matter how quickly others log the find, there's still a chance they won't be first. It would be normal for a FTF player to be disappointed at this point but they need to quickly get over it and go on with their lives.

 

No doubt. It just becomes annoying when someone finds the cache 15 minutes after it comes out, but doesn't log it for days.

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If the only thing a person cares about is getting the FTF, then yes, they could consider it a wasted trip. The thing is, that person should realize that they aren't going to get every FTF out there. No matter how quickly others log the find, there's still a chance they won't be first. It would be normal for a FTF player to be disappointed at this point but they need to quickly get over it and go on with their lives.

 

No doubt. It just becomes annoying when someone finds the cache 15 minutes after it comes out, but doesn't log it for days.

 

I'm not sure I see the logic in this. I mean, someone finds it within 15 minutes after it comes out and doesn't log it. And...? The cache is still there, it can still be found by others, it can still be logged by others, nobody has to wait for days until the FTF log is posted before they do anything. If the cache is new, it will likely be found by several people within a short time, and usually someone is going to post a timely log and everyone will know it has been found. And, just as importantly, aside from the concept of 'being first', nobody's enjoyment should be any less.

 

I can see it becoming a source of angst if, for example, it is a difficult cache in some way which was found quickly by one person who didn't log it. As days pass, others might be prompted to expend a lot of time and effort and possibly even travel some distance to get the cache thinking it was unfound. But even in that situation, you would have found a difficult cache. Not a complete waste of time and effort by any means. Unless, as has been touched upon repeatedly, one considers anything less than an FTF to be a waste of time.

 

Personally, if I find a cache, any cache but specifically one that I had thought unfound, only to find that the physical log had been signed even though that person never logged it online, I wouldn't be wasting any time or energy focusing on what the other person was doing or why. I'm not first, they didn't post a find, oh well, sign the log, yeah baby, and move on.

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If the only thing a person cares about is getting the FTF, then yes, they could consider it a wasted trip. The thing is, that person should realize that they aren't going to get every FTF out there. No matter how quickly others log the find, there's still a chance they won't be first. It would be normal for a FTF player to be disappointed at this point but they need to quickly get over it and go on with their lives.

No doubt. It just becomes annoying when someone finds the cache 15 minutes after it comes out, but doesn't log it for days.

I bet.

 

Also, I don't care about being "FTF". I only care if there is a prize.

Soooo make sure the rest of you log ASAP, 'cause there's prizes involved!

Kumbaya chanting, courtesy driven others be darned. :lol:

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