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INTRO APP users are killing the hobby


jshults (Rally Dude)
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I am new here & only use the full app which I think is fantastic. I am sorry if my following suggestion has already been put out there, I did try to read everything till now.

One of the issues that a lot of people have brought up is trackables going missing due to new cachers not quite understanding the rules. How about simply making it that any cache with any form of trackable registered in it automatically disappears from the intro app till someone else moves it on. At this point it would once again show up for intro users. You could maybe even take it a step further and have it so that once a trackable is deposited in a cache it automatically only becomes viewable to premium members (of which I'm not yet).

It's only a single suggestion for one of the points raised. Good luck with sorting out the whole bigger picture.

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One of the issues that a lot of people have brought up is trackables going missing due to new cachers not quite understanding the rules. How about simply making it that any cache with any form of trackable registered in it automatically disappears from the intro app till someone else moves it on. At this point it would once again show up for intro users. You could maybe even take it a step further and have it so that once a trackable is deposited in a cache it automatically only becomes viewable to premium members (of which I'm not yet).
Then we'd get even more complaints about "Yesterday, I could see this cache on the phone app, but today I can't."
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One of the issues that a lot of people have brought up is trackables going missing due to new cachers not quite understanding the rules. How about simply making it that any cache with any form of trackable registered in it automatically disappears from the intro app till someone else moves it on. At this point it would once again show up for intro users. You could maybe even take it a step further and have it so that once a trackable is deposited in a cache it automatically only becomes viewable to premium members (of which I'm not yet).
Then we'd get even more complaints about "Yesterday, I could see this cache on the phone app, but today I can't."

 

But if it was only for the Intro App users in the first instance would that really matter? Especially considering from what I read in this thread the people that are causing the issues aren't logging into the website/forum anyway.

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Then we'd get even more complaints about "Yesterday, I could see this cache on the phone app, but today I can't."
But if it was only for the Intro App users in the first instance would that really matter? Especially considering from what I read in this thread the people that are causing the issues aren't logging into the website/forum anyway.
Even if you assume that all the inexperienced people causing issues are using the free intro app, that doesn't mean that all the people using the free intro app are inexperienced people, or that all the people using the free intro app are people causing issues.
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Another problem I see with that suggestion (an interesting one, by the way!) is that there are a lot of caches that show as having a TB, but that don't. In my area, of the 6 nearest caches to me that show as having TBs logged in, 4 definitely do not have TBs, one does, and one we haven't found yet to verify (but is probably there, as it was dropped 9 days ago and the cache is fairly remote).

 

So if you hid these caches from intro users, that's 4 caches they COULD find but now can't. And since our area has a lot of non-intro-app micros, that would be a fair sized chunk to hide.

Edited by TriciaG
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The first step is recognizing the issue. The next step is coming up with how to make it better.

 

How do we, as a Geocaching community, get Intro app/app only users to learn more about the game?

 

Great constructive addition to the conversation, NeverSummer. Let's talk about this, guys. As community members, we are all responsible for bringing up the new generation of geocachers. How can we offer our help or a re-direction when we see someone trying to figure out how to play this incredibly nuanced game? Was there someone who helped you figure out the proper caching etiquette when you started?

 

We are asking questions like these at HQ, as well. How can we offer guidance and instruction to the new folks who want to come play? How can we support the current community with helping them educate and spread the word? To start with, we are working on more informative blog/FB posts, updating and reorganizing the Help Center, and thinking of fun new ways to inform newbies of the fine tuned, community created, social etiquette mores. In addition, I will let you know that the default log text in the Intro App was just supposed to be an example log and not something that they could use to post a log to any cache. We will be following up on this to make sure that the text is not introducing new cachers to bland/lazy logging techniques.

 

Many of you are already AMAZINGLY helpful to the new cachers who ask questions in the forums. As a fellow community member - I want to say a big THANK YOU for that. Since we are all stewards of the game I ask the same question to the rest of the community: What are some other ways that we can guide and teach the newest players on a local level?

 

Hi I am very new to Geocaching and I hesitated to write, because I am a free app. user because I don't know enough about the sport to become a paid or what even to pay for. My husband and I have tried a few times with a friend who geocaches, but he is pretty new at it as well. I appreciate the questions you have posted above.. because I am interested in learning the ropes, the correct way. I've searched internet sites in an attempt to educated myself on how to start and do things right, but I am floundering with finding information that is helpful and understandable to a newbie like me. Can someone help point me in the right direction to find some easy to understand information? I need to buy a GPS, I want a paperless, and don't want to spend over $200 if possible, any recommendations? I would appreciate your help. thanks Bailey

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Hi I am very new to Geocaching and I hesitated to write, because I am a free app. user because I don't know enough about the sport to become a paid or what even to pay for. My husband and I have tried a few times with a friend who geocaches, but he is pretty new at it as well. I appreciate the questions you have posted above.. because I am interested in learning the ropes, the correct way. I've searched internet sites in an attempt to educated myself on how to start and do things right, but I am floundering with finding information that is helpful and understandable to a newbie like me. Can someone help point me in the right direction to find some easy to understand information? I need to buy a GPS, I want a paperless, and don't want to spend over $200 if possible, any recommendations? I would appreciate your help. thanks Bailey

 

Finally this thread has some purpose.

 

Nice to see someone wanting to learn.

 

First off there is the GPS forum.

 

Unless you are somewhere in the middle of nowhere or doing some extreme hiking I'd recommend downloading the geocaching app for your phone as it is more than adequate to get the job done and is paperless. Should you still wish to buy a GPS (I did - Oregon 450) i'd recommend two things:

 

1) Do some research on the GPS forum.

2) But the best GPS you can afford.

 

Also check out the Getting Started forum, it has some great resources.

 

Finally I highly recommend getting a premier membership, it'll make geocaching a whole lot easier.

 

Lastly, have fun.

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I am new here & only use the full app which I think is fantastic. I am sorry if my following suggestion has already been put out there, I did try to read everything till now.

One of the issues that a lot of people have brought up is trackables going missing due to new cachers not quite understanding the rules. How about simply making it that any cache with any form of trackable registered in it automatically disappears from the intro app till someone else moves it on. At this point it would once again show up for intro users. You could maybe even take it a step further and have it so that once a trackable is deposited in a cache it automatically only becomes viewable to premium members (of which I'm not yet).

It's only a single suggestion for one of the points raised. Good luck with sorting out the whole bigger picture.

 

It would make more sense if logging trackables were made clearer everywhere. The problem with TBs isn't exclusively about intro app users, I've seen a few people write logs that include "took coin GC123456" and then subsequently write "dropped off GC123456" in another cache. Of course the coin is still marked as being in the first cache because the site doesn't understand the text of the log.

 

So doing something like this with the intro app would result in the original cache (that doesn't have the geocoin any more) not showing up on the app, while the second cache (that does have the coin, but the site thinks it doesn't) showing up. That would probably make it even more confusing for the new cacher who wouldn't know that the cache had a geocoin in it, probably would have no idea what the pretty coin was, and take it home thinking it was a trading item.

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Hi I am very new to Geocaching and I hesitated to write, because I am a free app. user because I don't know enough about the sport to become a paid or what even to pay for. My husband and I have tried a few times with a friend who geocaches, but he is pretty new at it as well. I appreciate the questions you have posted above.. because I am interested in learning the ropes, the correct way. I've searched internet sites in an attempt to educated myself on how to start and do things right, but I am floundering with finding information that is helpful and understandable to a newbie like me. Can someone help point me in the right direction to find some easy to understand information? I need to buy a GPS, I want a paperless, and don't want to spend over $200 if possible, any recommendations? I would appreciate your help. thanks Bailey

 

Finally this thread has some purpose.

 

Nice to see someone wanting to learn.

 

First off there is the GPS forum.

 

Unless you are somewhere in the middle of nowhere or doing some extreme hiking I'd recommend downloading the geocaching app for your phone as it is more than adequate to get the job done and is paperless. Should you still wish to buy a GPS (I did - Oregon 450) i'd recommend two things:

 

1) Do some research on the GPS forum.

2) But the best GPS you can afford.

 

Also check out the Getting Started forum, it has some great resources.

 

Finally I highly recommend getting a premier membership, it'll make geocaching a whole lot easier.

 

Lastly, have fun.

 

Let's not forget the Geocaching.com Help Center

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Im not exactly a newbie been at it for a few months now. In comparison to some I'm new. I semi depend on smartphone apps, though I really like just going it alone sometimes and do some great hiking.

 

1 difference between me and some smartphone users is I dont have a car so its a lifesaver for me otherwise could go all day

without finding a single cache, walking about 20 miles at that. I walk to most caches, though catch a local bus to within walking distance. Or to an entrance of a park.

 

Other day did a big park near my house without a smartphone walked 10miles finding only 1 cache. But was well worth it.

 

I'm also a free member on an extremely limited budget.

Edited by christyglpn
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As some of you may be aware, I am following a series of caches placed as an ecological class project. They are not being maintained. Reports of broken containers, followed by DNFs. Experienced cachers are not finding them. But the newbies are! I'm wondering if they know what finding a caches means???

Cachers with 1000 to 4000 finds cannot find some of these, but cachers with 3 or 4 finds have found them!

Member 1 Found it 05/28/2014

My first ever geocache!

 

Didn't find it 05/26/2014 (Okay. That's me.)

DNF. One find, one hide. Gone after the hide. Write a lecture on ecology (seems like an agendum to me.) Get credit for science class. Really sad that this is permitted! We searched for a while but were unable to find. Hints were bad. Oh, well.

 

Member 7

Found it 05/17/2014

That’s one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache.

 

Premium Member Didn't find it 05/12/2014

Argh! I think this has been taken!

 

Member 25 Didn't find it 04/26/2014

was sure we were in the right place, but couldn't locate

 

Member 3 Found it 04/26/2014

That’s one more find for me! Thanks so much for hiding this geocache.

 

Member 129 Found it 04/19/2014

TFTC! Need a new box, box is cracked and log is going to get wet.

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I find it amazing there are that many people that would loot/plunder caches and leave them exposed to the elements. I found a cache purely by accident before I knew what geocaching was and had enough common sense to put everything back as it was when I was finished. I guess humans come in all types. :)

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I find it amazing there are that many people that would loot/plunder caches and leave them exposed to the elements. I found a cache purely by accident before I knew what geocaching was and had enough common sense to put everything back as it was when I was finished. I guess humans come in all types. :)

 

Those are probably people who drive double the speed limit and complain they get tickets. That's got nothing to do with being new and not knowing what they are doing...-though they might not be around long enough to not be considered a newb.

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I'm a newb (43 finds as of today), and I came over from AtlasQuest when I found a hybrid letterbox. Right now I'm using the full app and I feel like it is serving it's purpose, but I'm mostly urban caching so far.

 

I can see how the intro app is hurting the sport; heck, I was leaving "That's another one for me..." logs too until I learned better. I think the most important thing for newbs to do is research. Play around on the site, chat with people, lurk in the discussion board...all of these help you become a better cacher. Unfortunately, I don't know how to get the intro app users to join in the culture of geocaching beyond finding caches. I know the intro app limits the number you can find per day, but maybe it needs to limit to a total number, for example, you can only find 5 and then you need to upgrade.

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Hi all,

 

I am brand new to geocaching, as I have only been doing it for a week or so...

 

I am an intro app user, and I do my best to be sure I am following proper etiquette. I think if the intro app required new users to read guidelines and rules, and maybe watch a video, before you can locate and log caches.

 

While I really have found to enjoy the hobby, I am still very reluctant, if not opposed, to purchasing the app and a premium membership. I understand this community/site needs money to function, but I feel geocaching is something that should be free or as inexpensive as possible. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Groundspeak is charging an exorbitant amount of money for memberships, but for now I just don't know about paying for a membership.

 

So, to make this post a little more constructive to the forum and topic, I would advise to either a) make the intro app limited to a certain number of finds, B) require users to read and agree with the rules, c) remove the intro app

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@ themightyfox:

 

Just so you know... the full (paid) app will do so much more. Premium Membership ups the bennies more yet... but it isn't really necessary with the full app. The one real shortcoming is that you would not be able to view Premium Member Only caches.

It provide you with ALL other caches... puzzles, multi's, higher Difficulty/Terrain ratings, etc.

 

The Intro-app, is designed to merely give somebody a "taste" of geocaching. It cannot provide you with a full (unlimited) caching experience. I refer to it as the "teaser"-app.... much like a sales ad or coupon... it gets you in the store, but does nothing more.

 

One caveat... if you decide to get the full app, DO NOT purchase it from within the Intro-app. It is misleading (of sorts) -- it upgrades one to Premium Membership only... it DOES NOT upgrade the app itself. It's sort of a fluke, because PM status improves NOTHING by still using the Intro-app. If you do purchase the paid app, do so from the app store.

 

Premium Membership is available at any time that you want it, always. It is totally separate from the app purchase.

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I am brand new to geocaching, as I have only been doing it for a week or so...

Welcome!

 

While I really have found to enjoy the hobby, I am still very reluctant, if not opposed, to purchasing the app and a premium membership.

That's perfectly understanding. And even with Groundspeak it is possible: go to the website, register a nickname (free, you already did this), pick a cache, enter the coordinates into a GPS receiver or a GPS app on the smartphone and go searching. After logging the physical logbook go back to the site from any internet access/computer you choose to, then log it online.

 

Totally free of charge. And: no need at all to have a decent geocaching(.com) app.

 

So, to make this post a little more constructive to the forum and topic, I would advise to either a) make the intro app limited to a certain number of finds, B) require users to read and agree with the rules, c) remove the intro app

I'd agree (all of them). But that would spoil the business model. I accept that Groundspeak is a company and wants/needs to make money. The app thing is a very good way to draw more people into the game and turn them into paying customers, if it's just the ~10 bucks for the app or - maybe after a while - the upgrade to premium membership. At the moment, it certainly is a raising business. They even more support this by recently introducing "reference credit" to old customers recruiting new ones.

 

But with such raising numbers there comes responsibility. Groundspeak is not to be considered a family business any more. It certainly is a good positioned (not to say multi million $) company. Thus they must become really able to control this growing user/cache base much more (i.e. in a sense of serious quality control) if they want not to slip over the edge...and may take the whole sport of geocaching with them. I see a threat there. Others see that already happened. Just my 0.02 €.

Edited by Ben0w
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Thanks for the kind responses, Ben0w and Gitchee-Gummee!

 

After reading your comments, I think I may purchase the full app soon.

 

Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

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Thanks for the kind responses, Ben0w and Gitchee-Gummee!

 

After reading your comments, I think I may purchase the full app soon.

 

Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

Yes. PMO caches are by far better. When was the last time you found an ammo can full of nice trades, TB's, and a dry log book big enough to leave a comment on? :)

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Thanks for the kind responses, Ben0w and Gitchee-Gummee!

 

After reading your comments, I think I may purchase the full app soon.

 

Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

Not necessarily.

 

But, for $10, the "Full" app is well worth the price. A GPSr alone can cost $100, and you'd get it all right in your phone. No need to go Premium Membership until you feel like you'd "get your money's worth". I waited a while until I got into the Premium Membership, and I held out on joining geocaching.com for 4+ years since some of the first "stashes" in my area were either word of mouth or posted to chat forums.

 

Awesome to see someone new interested in learning about the game!

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

 

I do not come from the same area as narcissa and I certainly do not have conducted any research on why someone makes a cache PM-only or available to everyone.

What I can agree on is however that in my area the PM-only caches are not of better quality than the ones available to everyone and from my personal point of view,

almost all of the PM-only caches rank quite low. Some of them have special containers, but are hidden at boring places and that's nothing that attracts me into geocaching.

 

Cezanne

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

 

I do not come from the same area as narcissa and I certainly do not have conducted any research on why someone makes a cache PM-only or available to everyone.

What I can agree on is however that in my area the PM-only caches are not of better quality than the ones available to everyone and from my personal point of view,

almost all of the PM-only caches rank quite low. Some of them have special containers, but are hidden at boring places and that's nothing that attracts me into geocaching.

 

Cezanne

 

I can't see what that has to do with the question - but thanks for playing :D

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I can't see what that has to do with the question - but thanks for playing :D

 

It is partially connected to the question as narcissa's statement has two parts. One about that in her area PM-only caches are typically worse and the other one about the reasons.

My post referred to the first part of the statement.

 

If your question only refers to the second part of narcissa's statement you probably should have cited only the second part or formulated the question differently.

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I can't see what that has to do with the question - but thanks for playing :D

 

It is partially connected to the question as narcissa's statement has two parts. One about that in her area PM-only caches are typically worse and the other one about the reasons.

My post referred to the first part of the statement.

 

If your question only refers to the second part of narcissa's statement you probably should have cited only the second part or formulated the question differently.

 

You're absolutely right - so let's pretend I did that :)

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

 

I know this to be a fact as it pertains to the geocaching culture in my area. Aside from "challenges," which I assume are PMO mostly to keep n00bs away who couldn't possible understand or meet the requirements, most of the PMO caches near me are power-trail nonsense or uninspired geo-litter by inexperienced cachers. It's not entirely unusual to see people mention the PMO thing in their logs, i.e. "TFTC, but why is this lamppost skirt hide a PMO?"

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

 

I know this to be a fact as it pertains to the geocaching culture in my area. Aside from "challenges," which I assume are PMO mostly to keep n00bs away who couldn't possible understand or meet the requirements, most of the PMO caches near me are power-trail nonsense or uninspired geo-litter by inexperienced cachers. It's not entirely unusual to see people mention the PMO thing in their logs, i.e. "TFTC, but why is this lamppost skirt hide a PMO?"

 

I may have miscommunicated - my question related to:

 

The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

which seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

 

I know this to be a fact as it pertains to the geocaching culture in my area. Aside from "challenges," which I assume are PMO mostly to keep n00bs away who couldn't possible understand or meet the requirements, most of the PMO caches near me are power-trail nonsense or uninspired geo-litter by inexperienced cachers. It's not entirely unusual to see people mention the PMO thing in their logs, i.e. "TFTC, but why is this lamppost skirt hide a PMO?"

 

I may have miscommunicated - my question related to:

 

The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

which seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

 

I can only speak to the geocaching culture where I live. YMMV, etc.

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

 

I know this to be a fact as it pertains to the geocaching culture in my area. Aside from "challenges," which I assume are PMO mostly to keep n00bs away who couldn't possible understand or meet the requirements, most of the PMO caches near me are power-trail nonsense or uninspired geo-litter by inexperienced cachers. It's not entirely unusual to see people mention the PMO thing in their logs, i.e. "TFTC, but why is this lamppost skirt hide a PMO?"

 

I may have miscommunicated - my question related to:

 

The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

which seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

 

I can only speak to the geocaching culture where I live. YMMV, etc.

 

But the statement - and this forum cover a much broader context than where you live - hence the question.

 

I think I work at making the game better - and I wouldn't say that want my caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

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Wow, a lot of elitist snobs in this topic!

 

Look guys, I've been Geocaching for three months. That's nothing, I'm definitely a noob. I use a free app on my smartphone, because my smartphone has GPS on it. I didn't go out and buy my own dedicated GPS device because they're expensive, and I need to afford rent. I have an account obviously (a premium one at that), and if you think "smartphone users are destroying the community" then you need to grow up.

 

Your hobby has reached a wider audience and you're upset that you're not the only ones who know about it anymore. Yes, that brings complications along with it, but you should be happy that more people are enjoying the caches now. I know I am!

 

Basically, let other people enjoy this. Get mad at vandalizers, obviously, but don't go assuming that every noob with a smartphone is just destroying caches or won't find multi's. Because you would be wrong.

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Ummm... the original topic as the INTRO APP users, not all smartphone users. :) Besides, the topic evolved from there on how to get those that we cannot even contact to learn about the etiquette of the game they're playing.

 

Signed,

A free app, smartphone user

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Wow, a lot of elitist snobs in this topic!

 

Look guys, I've been Geocaching for three months. That's nothing, I'm definitely a noob. I use a free app on my smartphone, because my smartphone has GPS on it. I didn't go out and buy my own dedicated GPS device because they're expensive, and I need to afford rent. I have an account obviously (a premium one at that), and if you think "smartphone users are destroying the community" then you need to grow up.

 

Your hobby has reached a wider audience and you're upset that you're not the only ones who know about it anymore. Yes, that brings complications along with it, but you should be happy that more people are enjoying the caches now. I know I am!

 

Basically, let other people enjoy this. Get mad at vandalizers, obviously, but don't go assuming that every noob with a smartphone is just destroying caches or won't find multi's. Because you would be wrong.

Glad you're enjoying the game, and from the free app as well.

 

You're not alone in the smartphone user group, and not alone in the realm of those who use the free Groundspeak app to successfully play the game with everyone else.

 

What the problem is, once you read from start to finish in the thread, is the inability to contact new, free app users unless they have completed validation processes on the website through their actual, active email address. That, and some new users are not engaging in the resources they could (and should) to learn how to play the game so it remains a positive experience for all, is sustainable in process and environmental aspects, and to realize the level of community responsible for making this game possible.

 

If you have an active email account, you have your geocaching.com account linked to an email account you monitor, you have learned the Guidelines, you have taken time to learn more about the game through available resources, and have enjoyed the game you're playing, you're not in bad company.

 

It's not about being "elitist", but thank you for bringing that topic up again. It must be time for that comment to be on rotation somewhere in the forums, right? :unsure:

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Wow, a lot of elitist snobs in this topic!

 

Look guys, I've been Geocaching for three months. That's nothing, I'm definitely a noob. I use a free app on my smartphone, because my smartphone has GPS on it. I didn't go out and buy my own dedicated GPS device because they're expensive, and I need to afford rent. I have an account obviously (a premium one at that), and if you think "smartphone users are destroying the community" then you need to grow up.

 

Your hobby has reached a wider audience and you're upset that you're not the only ones who know about it anymore. Yes, that brings complications along with it, but you should be happy that more people are enjoying the caches now. I know I am!

 

Basically, let other people enjoy this. Get mad at vandalizers, obviously, but don't go assuming that every noob with a smartphone is just destroying caches or won't find multi's. Because you would be wrong.

...It's not about being "elitist", but thank you for bringing that topic up again. It must be time for that comment to be on rotation somewhere in the forums, right? :unsure:

 

Just because it's been said before doesn't mean there isn't an element of truth to it. A lot of the posts in this thread are decidedly elitist. Not all of them, and I'm sorry if it came off that way! But more than there ought to be.

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You own a smartphone. I don't have one of those because can't afford the monthly fees. To me, you are the elitist.

 

Except I never told you to get a smartphone or that you're "ruining the community".

 

It doesn't bother me that you don't have a smartphone. That's fine by me, I understand your position.

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Reading through this it can be summed up by saying many people that have been doing this for a long time think noobs are killing the hobby. In a way that may be true simply because there is a level of etiquette that is supposed to go along with Geoaching. As a newbie I'm doing my best to learn and follow said etiquette. However reading through some of the topics here there is a level of hostility towards newbies that is easy to see. By the way, I'm using one of the apps to get involved in the hobby. Hopefully I'm not "killing the hobby" in the process.

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Reading through this it can be summed up by saying many people that have been doing this for a long time think noobs are killing the hobby.

 

No, I think you got something wrong. What many are saying here can summarized as "Groundspeak is doing something wrong by allowing users to use the intro app and search for caches before they have validated

their e-mail address and without making sure that they ever visited the website and know that something like guidelines exist. These cachers are unreachable and cannot be contacted in case something went wrong.

It's Groundspeak's business strategy that causes the problem, not newcomers that have existed over all the years.

You can be contacted by e-mail and you even came to this forum. This is not the group this thread is about.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Reading through this it can be summed up by saying many people that have been doing this for a long time think noobs are killing the hobby.

 

No, I think you got something wrong. What many are saying here can summarized as "Groundspeak is doing something wrong by allowing users to use the intro app and search for caches before they have validated

their e-mail address and without making sure that they ever visited the website and know that something like guidelines exist. These cachers are unreachable and cannot be contacted in case something went wrong.

It's Groundspeak's business strategy that causes the problem, not newcomers that have existed over all the years.

You can be contacted by e-mail and you even came to this forum. This is not the group this thread is about.

 

 

Cezanne

 

See, that makes a lot more sense. That seems like a genuine problem, in fact, giving people access to all this without at least an ounce of orientation. I agree with that.

 

But there are still a lot of people in this thread putting the blame on newcomers as a whole, and not Groundspeak. And I wish they wouldn't. :/

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If one reads the thread they see that the 'hostility' is directed to the proliferation of the Intro App experimenters - those who hear about Geocaching, download an app and start finding caches WITHOUT registering an account, verifying their contact info, learning any of the Guidelines & Etiquette of the hobby. Those are the types who are 'killing the hobby', not noobs who are learning and reading about the 'way it should be done'.

Each of us was a noob once. After learning and doing the hobby for a few years, some see the difference in behavior of new cachers back then and how that behavior seems to have changed at about the same time as the Intro App was introduced. It may be an over-generalization, but it may also be warranted. The Intro App is tagged as responsible because it is the gateway for most of these new, un-verified, un-educated, cachers.

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Wow, a lot of elitist snobs in this topic!

 

Look guys, I've been Geocaching for three months. That's nothing, I'm definitely a noob. I use a free app on my smartphone, because my smartphone has GPS on it. I didn't go out and buy my own dedicated GPS device because they're expensive, and I need to afford rent. I have an account obviously (a premium one at that), and if you think "smartphone users are destroying the community" then you need to grow up.

 

Your hobby has reached a wider audience and you're upset that you're not the only ones who know about it anymore. Yes, that brings complications along with it, but you should be happy that more people are enjoying the caches now. I know I am!

 

Basically, let other people enjoy this. Get mad at vandalizers, obviously, but don't go assuming that every noob with a smartphone is just destroying caches or won't find multi's. Because you would be wrong.

 

My comments about people having a bit of skin in the game would seem to apply here.

 

If you've been playing the game for a while and bought the premium membership then you're someone who has a bit of skin in the game. I don't care whether you use an ancient GPS, a brand new shiny top-of-the-range GPS, a smartphone or take a best guess from the coordinates and a paper map. If you're someone who is willing to figure out how the game is supposed to be played and then play it accordingly you're not part of the problem.

 

There are always a few elitist comments and a few others that might come across as a bit elitist even if they weren't intended that way. But would anyone complain about people being elitist if they insisted that people who wanted to play soccer learned the rules and kicked the ball in the appropriate direction? Up to a point it works for people to play the game any way they want to but if someone turned up on the soccer field wielding a hockey stick so they didn't hurt their feet kicking the ball, or decided it would be easier to pick up the ball and run with it, the game would soon descend into chaos. It's not elitism to expect people to play by some basic rules.

 

Personally I think one of the basic rules should be that people have to have a validated email address.

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Although this may be slightly off topic, has anyone found premium only caches to be better? As in, more swag, not just film canister sized, ect.?

 

Absolutely not. In fact, around here, they're usually worse. The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

You know this to be fact?

 

I know this to be a fact as it pertains to the geocaching culture in my area. Aside from "challenges," which I assume are PMO mostly to keep n00bs away who couldn't possible understand or meet the requirements, most of the PMO caches near me are power-trail nonsense or uninspired geo-litter by inexperienced cachers. It's not entirely unusual to see people mention the PMO thing in their logs, i.e. "TFTC, but why is this lamppost skirt hide a PMO?"

 

I may have miscommunicated - my question related to:

 

The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

which seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

 

I can only speak to the geocaching culture where I live. YMMV, etc.

 

But the statement - and this forum cover a much broader context than where you live - hence the question.

 

I think I work at making the game better - and I wouldn't say that want my caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

And I think that your attitude probably stems from being in a different area where the geocaching culture is a little different. People around here tend to frown on PMO caches, or at least expect that a cache has been set as PMO for a good reason. If there's a desire to set the bar a little higher for a cache in order to elevate the caliber of cachers finding it, it's typically done by actually making the cache more difficult, i.e. with harder terrain, higher difficulty, a puzzle, a multi, etc.

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Reading through this it can be summed up by saying many people that have been doing this for a long time think noobs are killing the hobby.

 

No, I think you got something wrong. What many are saying here can summarized as "Groundspeak is doing something wrong by allowing users to use the intro app and search for caches before they have validated

their e-mail address and without making sure that they ever visited the website and know that something like guidelines exist. These cachers are unreachable and cannot be contacted in case something went wrong.

It's Groundspeak's business strategy that causes the problem, not newcomers that have existed over all the years.

You can be contacted by e-mail and you even came to this forum. This is not the group this thread is about.

 

 

Cezanne

 

I see what you are saying. But I also read through this whole thread and it's easy to get the impression from many of the posts that making the hobby more assailable is killing it. My response was not articulated very well. As I make my presence more known around here you will see I'm often good for that. By the way, I agree with having valid contact information before locations are provided to cashes.

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I may have miscommunicated - my question related to:

 

The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

which seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

 

I can only speak to the geocaching culture where I live. YMMV, etc.

 

But the statement - and this forum cover a much broader context than where you live - hence the question.

 

I think I work at making the game better - and I wouldn't say that want my caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

And I think that your attitude probably stems from being in a different area where the geocaching culture is a little different. People around here tend to frown on PMO caches, or at least expect that a cache has been set as PMO for a good reason. If there's a desire to set the bar a little higher for a cache in order to elevate the caliber of cachers finding it, it's typically done by actually making the cache more difficult, i.e. with harder terrain, higher difficulty, a puzzle, a multi, etc.

 

I set most of my caches as PMO for good reasons.

 

I also do harder terrain, higher difficulty, puzzles and multis.

 

I also do easier terrain, lower difficulty trads, puzzles and multis.

 

And I still don't want all my caches to be available to ANYONE who wants to look for them.

 

I want them to be available to those people who have some investment in and respect for the game.

 

PMO doesn't guarantee that - but I think it helps.

 

My choice.

 

Anyone who doesn't like it is free to simply ignore my caches.

 

Does that mean I'm NOT working at making the game better? Absolutely not.

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I may have miscommunicated - my question related to:

 

The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

which seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

 

I can only speak to the geocaching culture where I live. YMMV, etc.

 

But the statement - and this forum cover a much broader context than where you live - hence the question.

 

I think I work at making the game better - and I wouldn't say that want my caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

And I think that your attitude probably stems from being in a different area where the geocaching culture is a little different. People around here tend to frown on PMO caches, or at least expect that a cache has been set as PMO for a good reason. If there's a desire to set the bar a little higher for a cache in order to elevate the caliber of cachers finding it, it's typically done by actually making the cache more difficult, i.e. with harder terrain, higher difficulty, a puzzle, a multi, etc.

 

I set most of my caches as PMO for good reasons.

 

I also do harder terrain, higher difficulty, puzzles and multis.

 

I also do easier terrain, lower difficulty trads, puzzles and multis.

 

And I still don't want all my caches to be available to ANYONE who wants to look for them.

 

I want them to be available to those people who have some investment in and respect for the game.

 

PMO doesn't guarantee that - but I think it helps.

 

My choice.

 

Anyone who doesn't like it is free to simply ignore my caches.

 

Does that mean I'm NOT working at making the game better? Absolutely not.

 

As I said before, I suspect that's a function of the geocaching culture where you are.

 

The general attitude around here is that there is rarely a *good* reason for a PMO cache, and that respect for the game is better quantified through the quality of a person's actions in the game rather than the money they give to Groundspeak.

 

While a cache owner can always try to put out good geocaches, truly good quality geocaches come to be defined by the experiences of those who find them.

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I may have miscommunicated - my question related to:

 

The cachers who really work at making the game better want their caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

which seems to be a sweeping generalisation.

 

I can only speak to the geocaching culture where I live. YMMV, etc.

 

But the statement - and this forum cover a much broader context than where you live - hence the question.

 

I think I work at making the game better - and I wouldn't say that want my caches to be available to anyone who wants to look for them.

 

And I think that your attitude probably stems from being in a different area where the geocaching culture is a little different. People around here tend to frown on PMO caches, or at least expect that a cache has been set as PMO for a good reason. If there's a desire to set the bar a little higher for a cache in order to elevate the caliber of cachers finding it, it's typically done by actually making the cache more difficult, i.e. with harder terrain, higher difficulty, a puzzle, a multi, etc.

 

I set most of my caches as PMO for good reasons.

 

I also do harder terrain, higher difficulty, puzzles and multis.

 

I also do easier terrain, lower difficulty trads, puzzles and multis.

 

And I still don't want all my caches to be available to ANYONE who wants to look for them.

 

I want them to be available to those people who have some investment in and respect for the game.

 

PMO doesn't guarantee that - but I think it helps.

 

My choice.

 

Anyone who doesn't like it is free to simply ignore my caches.

 

Does that mean I'm NOT working at making the game better? Absolutely not.

 

As I said before, I suspect that's a function of the geocaching culture where you are.

 

The general attitude around here is that there is rarely a *good* reason for a PMO cache, and that respect for the game is better quantified through the quality of a person's actions in the game rather than the money they give to Groundspeak.

 

While a cache owner can always try to put out good geocaches, truly good quality geocaches come to be defined by the experiences of those who find them.

 

I'm sure you make a good point there - but I haven't got the foggiest idea what it is.

 

Although truly good quality geocaches coming to be defined by the experiences of those who find them - has absolutely NOTHING to with whether or not those geocaches are PMO - which was the context of your original comment which gave rise to my original question.

 

Unless you're trying to say that truly good quality geocaches can only be so if they are non-PMO - which would be incorrect.

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I'm sure you make a good point there - but I haven't got the foggiest idea what it is.

 

Although truly good quality geocaches coming to be defined by the experiences of those who find them - has absolutely NOTHING to with whether or not those geocaches are PMO - which was the context of your original comment which gave rise to my original question.

 

Unless you're trying to say that truly good quality geocaches can only be so if they are non-PMO - which would be incorrect.

 

It seems like you're taking my comment very personally, which is unfortunate.

 

I'll reiterate, one more time for those in the back, that my initial comment was related to the geocaching culture specific to the area I live in. That is to say that, around here, geocachers seem to find very little use in making geocaches PMO except in very special cases. The PMO geocaches that we do find around here are usually either challenge caches, which would have little interest/relevance for a cacher who can't run pocket queries to keep track of complex stats anyway, or they are unremarkable traditionals that appear to be PMO for no particular reason at all.

 

I think there's just a general inclination to recognize that high caliber geocachers, and quality geocaches, are not in any way defined by premium membership. Once again, your mileage may vary. I recognize that restricting access to geocache listings is more popular elsewhere. I just fail to see the point.

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It seems like you're taking my comment very personally, which is unfortunate.

 

Not taking it personally - no reason why I would as it doesn't affect me.

 

Merely pointing out the fact that it's flawed - even in the small context you intended.

 

Yeah, maybe there is some shadow community of geocachers here who see it in a totally different way. Could be!

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