Logging Virtual and Earthcaches, what is allowed?

[+FolkertenJose]

Dear geocachers,

 

We are addicted to geocaching since our sign up april 2012. In august 2012 we became premium members. We have a question though. We've been om vacation to Canada this summer and of course we cached a lot there. We also found some virtual and earthcaches. A question came to mind. Virtual caches are generally very easy. Just take a picture at some place and thats that. Sometimes earthcaches are simple as well. We've been to a lot of places were there are virtual or earth caches, for example the piramids of Egypt. This was in 2009 though, when we were not yet familiar with geocaching. The question is: is it allowed to log virtual and earthcaches afterwards? for example can we log a virtual of the piramids now that we visted in 2009? I'd love to hear is this is acceptable or not.

[Mr.Yuck]

Dear geocachers,

 

We are addicted to geocaching since our sign up april 2012. In august 2012 we became premium members. We have a question though. We've been om vacation to Canada this summer and of course we cached a lot there. We also found some virtual and earthcaches. A question came to mind. Virtual caches are generally very easy. Just take a picture at some place and thats that. Sometimes earthcaches are simple as well. We've been to a lot of places were there are virtual or earth caches, for example the piramids of Egypt. This was in 2009 though, when we were not yet familiar with geocaching. The question is: is it allowed to log virtual and earthcaches afterwards? for example can we log a virtual of the piramids now that we visted in 2009? I'd love to hear is this is acceptable or not.

 

You'll get differing opinions, I'm sure. Personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal, and the Geocaching Police will not come and take you away.

[+ngrrfan]

Dear geocachers,

 

We are addicted to geocaching since our sign up april 2012. In august 2012 we became premium members. We have a question though. We've been om vacation to Canada this summer and of course we cached a lot there. We also found some virtual and earthcaches. A question came to mind. Virtual caches are generally very easy. Just take a picture at some place and thats that. Sometimes earthcaches are simple as well. We've been to a lot of places were there are virtual or earth caches, for example the piramids of Egypt. This was in 2009 though, when we were not yet familiar with geocaching. The question is: is it allowed to log virtual and earthcaches afterwards? for example can we log a virtual of the piramids now that we visted in 2009? I'd love to hear is this is acceptable or not.

To me this is a slippery slope question. Can you meet the requirements of the cache and answer any needed questions? If so, contact the CO and see if they will allow it.

ECs and Virtuals aren't just "go take a picture" caches. Most have questions that need to be answered as well as a picture.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

If you were there and have the required information ( photo, info on a sign, etc ) I'd say log it.

On many I've done recently a photo is asked for showing your GPS.... this shows your visit was to find the cache as the CO didn't want old photos of family vacations not related to caching. If we are traveling and I'm in an area that I'm sure would be a great virtual but haven't downloaded any caches for the area I'll take a ton of pictures including all information signs with GPS in photos......I have been able to log several this way.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Messes with your statistics...

If you log it as 'Found' in 2009, all your milestones will be wrong!

[Clan Riffster]

Personally, I won't retroactively log a virtual or an earth cache based upon a visit I made to a location prior to my caching career. To me, it would just feel like cheesy stat padding. But do the guidelines prohibit it? I'm not sure they do. The purpose of both virtuals and earth caches is to get you to visit a location, hopefully to see something way Kewl, or to learn something of interest. Since you've already been to the designated spot, does it make sense for you to return, just for the smilie?

 

I wouldn't do it, but it's really between your conscience and the CO.

[4wheelin_fool]

You weren't geocaching at the time, nor a geocacher, so many virtual owners would delete your log. Most virtuals have a specific item to locate, rather than a pic of the general area.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Messes with your statistics...

If you log it as 'Found' in 2009, all your milestones will be wrong!

 

I thought that would be the case to but its not. The GC site lets you " Lock In " your milestones so that the addition or subtraction of a cache along the way won't affect them.

[+K13]

When I was in high school in the early 80's, I was in a group that visited Washington, D.C. and we did loads of photos (school equipment & film). I could likely qualify for almost all the Virtuals that were placed there 18 to 20 years later. Do you think that would be within the spirit of the 'Rules'?

[+hydnsek]

When I was in high school in the early 80's, I was in a group that visited Washington, D.C. and we did loads of photos (school equipment & film). I could likely qualify for almost all the Virtuals that were placed there 18 to 20 years later. Do you think that would be within the spirit of the 'Rules'?

+1 and ditto.

[+dprovan]

When I was in high school in the early 80's, I was in a group that visited Washington, D.C. and we did loads of photos (school equipment & film). I could likely qualify for almost all the Virtuals that were placed there 18 to 20 years later. Do you think that would be within the spirit of the 'Rules'?

Just for the record, I just did the DC Mall last week, and I'll be you can't. There are a couple virtuals on the mall that have no requirements, true, but most of them have at least one subtle requirement that you're very unlikely to meet by chance.

 

Even so, I think you're making a good point. I don't think it makes sense to log a cache because you were there before the cache existed, and I don't think it makes any more sense to log a cache before the geocaching version of you existed.

 

Interesting example on the Mall, actually: before I was a geocacher, my son went geocaching with my sister, and a virtual cache led them to something really cool on the Mall, which he showed me when we were there a couple days later. So I know all about it and have for years, but since I didn't go there in search of the cache, I've never logged it. When we were there last week, we were within a tenth of a mile of GZ, but we didn't have time to go over there, so I still haven't logged it.

 

Naturally I don't care whether someone else logs a virtual because they were once there before geocaching (although to be honest, I will snicker). But I have to ask: why would anyone want to do that? Are the numbers that important? If so, are they important enough to log a virtual that you haven't been to at all, if you can meet the explicit requirements?

[+BAMBOOZLE]

When I was in high school in the early 80's, I was in a group that visited Washington, D.C. and we did loads of photos (school equipment & film). I could likely qualify for almost all the Virtuals that were placed there 18 to 20 years later. Do you think that would be within the spirit of the 'Rules'?

 

It depends. If the CO wants a picture of you and your GPS , then no.

If the CO wants a picture of you with a monument ( no GPS ) but it was taken 40 years ago, probably no.

If a CO asks you to describe what is at GZ ( say a monument ) I would say yes. The monument was there long before it was a cache and knowing the information requested qualifies you to claim the find.....I've never seen a time element set by a CO on these type virtuals. Many CO's go to great pains to ensure the internet, google earth, etc can't be used for armchair logging.

You were there, you know whats there, and barring any special restrictions on the cache page, sending an email to the CO describing whats there gives you the find IMO.

[+FolkertenJose]

Thanks for the replies. Just for the record: we are not saying that we will log the vc's and ec's that we visited before our geocaching career. We are just curious what your opinions are. We also think its a bit cheesy to log caches like this, but we met people who did do that...

[+briansnat]

I think the point behind geocaching is "Go here", not "Have you been here?"

[+lamoracke]

I have logged one such virtual. I went to Yosemite before I was a cacher and stayed at a friend's house a couple of nights in the area. Years later when talking to him, he mentioned there was a virtual in his very backyard. I was like, what? Given I had personally stayed at said house for like 3 days, I really did not feel I would need to travel down there again to just prove I was in his backyard again (he has a business so its not like folks do not go there) and I knew the answers, so to me, it was a no brainer. I have not tried to research other older virtuals like the Empire State Building or any in the Paris area or other past trips, but I felt I already had experienced this virtual to the full extent possible so I logged it.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Virtual caches are generally very easy. Just take a picture at some place and thats that. Sometimes earthcaches are simple as well. We've been to a lot of places were there are virtual or earth caches, for example the piramids of Egypt. This was in 2009 though, when we were not yet familiar with geocaching. The question is: is it allowed to log virtual and earthcaches afterwards? for example can we log a virtual of the piramids now that we visted in 2009? I'd love to hear is this is acceptable or not.

 

If you have really been there and can provide all the requested information to the CO (which might just be a photo for some Virtuals, but Earthcaches nearly always have other questions you have to answer as well) then I think it is fine.

 

I did this for 3 Virtuals at Gettysburg. I started geocaching 7 months after I was there. I had the answers and photos; I provided them to the COs before logging a find and they gave me the okay to log the find (one expressed some hesitant because of the situation, but felt he didn't have grounds to say no).

[+geodarts]

Many virtuals and earthcaches specify that visits from past vacations don't count. There has been periodic discussions on the earthcaching forum about whether people can log the find based on past visits. The earthcache FAQ states:

 

1. There is no rule that says somebody has to visit the location after publication in order to make a log.

2. HOWEVER, in GSA’s view, somebody has not actually visited an EarthCache if there was no EarthCache there at the time of their visit!

3. GSA has no problem with a cache owner deleting a log from somebody who has clearly not visited the EarthCache after its publication date.

4. If a cache owner wants to allow such logs to stand, that's fine too. (That's up to the cache owner. Maybe in some cases they would feel as though the person logging the cache did get a good lesson, by combining an earlier visit with solving the cache's logging tasks after the fact. The cache owner can be the judge of that.)

 

Geoawarehq has written that the same principle would apply to visits that took place before people became aware of the game: "I'd call logging an EarthCache that you didn't truly visit (after it was published, and after knowing about its existence) "cheesy" as well! Good descriptor."

 

Ultimately its between the CO and the cacher. I once let a prior earthcache log stand because the cacher had planned developing one at that site and had all the information -- i just beat him to it. But generally I would go along with geoaware's assessment. I don't think it's possible to find something that I did not know about. If I didn't know about a virtual or earthcache - or if the earthcache was published after the visit - I could not say I found it as part of this game. Perhaps someday I'll return to some of the areas I visited that now have great earthcaches or I later discovered have virtuals. I have been able to do so in some areas and for other places It would be one more reason to go back.

Edited August 18, 2013 by geodarts

[+T.D.M.22]

As long as you can meet the requirements I don't see why not. If it's "take a picture of such and such and answer this question" and you can do that then you should be able to log it. If you can't answer the question or it's something like "Take a picture of your GPSr on top of this nearby benchmark, and tell me the elevation" then you can't log it.

 

You weren't geocaching at the time, nor a geocacher, so many virtual owners would delete your log. Most virtuals have a specific item to locate, rather than a pic of the general area.

 

I disagree with the first part. I'm sure if the question was "I found a geocache three years ago and signed it but I didn't sign up until this month, can I still log it?"

people would say as long as you signed it you can log it.

 

True if they didn't meet the requirement the shouldn't log it, no matter when they found it.

[+K13]

If you do log one of these as discussed above, you should add the following tag line to your on line log....."Greetings from Germany"

[4wheelin_fool]

As long as you can meet the requirements I don't see why not. If it's "take a picture of such and such and answer this question" and you can do that then you should be able to log it. If you can't answer the question or it's something like "Take a picture of your GPSr on top of this nearby benchmark, and tell me the elevation" then you can't log it.

 

You weren't geocaching at the time, nor a geocacher, so many virtual owners would delete your log. Most virtuals have a specific item to locate, rather than a pic of the general area.

 

I disagree with the first part. I'm sure if the question was "I found a geocache three years ago and signed it but I didn't sign up until this month, can I still log it?"

people would say as long as you signed it you can log it.

 

True if they didn't meet the requirement the shouldn't log it, no matter when they found it.

 

Many would delete the logs, and Groundspeak would probably back them up. You can disagree all you want, but that won't restore any logs or make them valid. There was no GPS used, nor website, and it falls under the category of armchair logging, although a little less cheesy. With that being said, someone could probably get away with it, if they didn't say anything. The Lincoln Memorial virt has no requirements at all, and anyone could probably log it, although not a good idea.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Several years ago on the way to a vacation in Maine we stopped at the Delorme HQ in Yarmouth, Maine. I found two traditional caches near the parking lot then went inside to see the rather unique exhibit there, spent an hour or so perusing the map store and even bought a couple of books and a t-shirt. I discovered after I got to our vacation house and was logging the traditional caches that there was a virtual cache located at the location. I could easily answer all the questions but I didn't take the obligatory photo of you and your GPS in front of a specific location. Since I wasn't aware that there was a virtual at the time I was there and I didn't have a photo with my GPS in it I didn't feel right logging it as a find. The CO knows about my story and thanked me for no logging the cache without completing all the criteria.

I have also been to Yosemite many times before I started geocaching but wouldn't log a find on a virtual there either.

A few days ago I was in St. Louis and saw that there was a virtual cache at the Arch (about a block and a half from my hotel). It was sort of a multi/puzzle virtual where one had to visit six locations at the museum under the arch to fill in a set of coordinates which led to a plaque which had a word that could be sent to the CO as verification that one visited the arch. I was definitely at the Arch but since I didn't meet all the criteria that the CO asked for I wouldn't think of logging it as a find.

[+Packanack]

I have always believed that logging your find should be relatively contemporaneous with the visit to the location. so I think you should go back to Egypt and visit the pyramids once again. Do so soon.

[+fizzymagic]

Dear geocachers,

 

We are addicted to geocaching since our sign up april 2012. In august 2012 we became premium members. We have a question though. We've been om vacation to Canada this summer and of course we cached a lot there. We also found some virtual and earthcaches. A question came to mind. Virtual caches are generally very easy. Just take a picture at some place and thats that. Sometimes earthcaches are simple as well. We've been to a lot of places were there are virtual or earth caches, for example the piramids of Egypt. This was in 2009 though, when we were not yet familiar with geocaching. The question is: is it allowed to log virtual and earthcaches afterwards? for example can we log a virtual of the piramids now that we visted in 2009? I'd love to hear is this is acceptable or not.

 

I won't do it. I want my geocaching stats to reflect where I actually went and what I actually did. To me, there is a big difference between visiting someplace and caching there. I can't tell you what to do, but if you choose to log those past visits as finds, I think you will regret it in the future.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Logging Earthcaches retrospectively

The subject has been discussed in the EarthCache forum. "Cheesy". If the CO chooses to delete the log if one has visited the location before the EarthCache was published, Geoaware will not contest that deletion.

If the CO opts to accept such a log, GSA will not complain.

The same thought should apply to Virtuals. "Cheesy" to claim a log on a cache that did not exist when one was there.

[+Don_J]

When I was in high school in the early 80's, I was in a group that visited Washington, D.C. and we did loads of photos (school equipment & film). I could likely qualify for almost all the Virtuals that were placed there 18 to 20 years later. Do you think that would be within the spirit of the 'Rules'?

 

I've been to the local Walmart about 200 times. If someone sticks a cache in the parking lot, should I simply log it online? I mean, I already know where it is and I know that I'll have no problem finding it. I don't even need my GPS. What's the point of actually visiting and doing the actual work?

 

Somebody up thread said, "slippery slope", and I totally agree.