cache in SSSI

[islayhawk]

I published a cache recently which unfortunately was rejected because it fell within a SSSI area. This was pointed out to me by the reviewer. I work on the estate where this SSSI is located and the owner of the estate has given me full verbal permission to place the cache there. Is verbal permission suitable or do I have to supply written permission from the owner.

 

islayhawk

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Not sure what a SSSI is but if a land owner gives you verbal permission to place a cache on his property that should be sufficient.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Local lingo on a global forum...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site_of_Special_Scientific_Interest

[+hukilaulau]

Local lingo on a global forum...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site_of_Special_Scientific_Interest

Holy tortured tonguetwister Batman! That's more complicated than Yogi Berra's explanation of percentages in baseball! But my take on it is this: The owner of the estate may not have the authority to give you permission to do whatever it is that some government agency may decide they think that you are doing.

So the short answer will be "No". The long answer will be "Whereas and wherefore the here in named pluperfect of the also ran... blah, blah, blah, then no, you can't do that."

[+Beach_hut]

The best person to ask would be the reviewer. They may need a contact phone number for the person who gave you permission, or an email address, or it may be the permission you've got is sufficient. I'd err on the side of caution in their position for an SSSI? But the definitive answer would need to come from a reviewer.

 

Might be best to move this thread to the UK forum?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Sometimes the location of a cache, and obtaining permission might allow a cache to be published but still be a bad idea. Looking at a list of "Sites of Special Scientific Interest" shows that they're typically of biological interest or geological interest. In both cases, there may be an environmental impact that should be considered, not just for this particular cache, but that it might be seen by other cachers as a precedent for placing their own cache in a SSSI area.

 

An issue that can arise whenever a cache is placed which requires explicit permission is that generally, only the cache owner, the reviewer, and the person providing permission would be aware that permission has been granted, and rarely would someone responsible for maintenance of the location, law enforcement officers, or just someone from the general public that witnesses someone poking around the area would know that permission was granted. That could lead to those seeking the cache getting question by authorities and even detained, and subjecting potential cache finders to that possibility may cause more drama than it's worth.

[+wimseyguy]

If your cache was already published, and then the reviewer disabled it and sent you a note of explanation, you should continue this dialogue with them. It's highly unlikely that anything posted in this thread will influence the discussion between you and the reviewer.

[Keystone]

I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the United Kingdom and Ireland forum.

[GrandPotentate]

It's entirely possible that the owner of the estate doesn't have the authority to grant permission. If this site falls under some type of government regulations or protections the own may not be allowed to give that permission. In my area, if a park is purchased imporoved with a specific state grant, it is considered a nature preserve and no geocaches are to be in that park no matter what the county park director or property owner has to say.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

I had the same thing when we initially placed our cache. Initially I just moved it because I was ignorant of the wonderousness of ''magic maps". This is what the reviewers use to detect sensitive areas for want of a better explanation. Basically they load up magic map (a government based programme available to us all online just google it) and select creat own area. Then they click on various 'layers' and see what comes up. But with SSSI it's slightly complicated. Because the people that impose and enforce sssi sites may give you permission. In fact it's quite possible they will. If not they may provide a suggested alternate location very near. Or they may refuse.

 

From word of mouth some SSSI officers reply right away and are very helpful but others don't even respond. But that's people. There is a rather good thread knocking around that started when someone asked the same thing. It seemed as though the permission of the SSSI people trumped that of the land owner in some cases and in others it was the other way around. And this comes from the fact that SSSI is not a hard and fast blanket situation. There are within its bounds about 6 levels. From (my wording not theirs) beyond help through improving, up to prestine. It could be a rare snail. An orchid. Or some special moss. But it may be seasonal. So a chat with the SSSI organisation could well be enough. It's very fluid depending on the details. It may take some time to sort out though. Here is a better source of info -

 

https://wiki.Groundspeak.com/display/GEO/United+Kingdom+Land+Areas

[+Happy Humphrey]

I had the same thing when we initially placed our cache. Initially I just moved it because I was ignorant of the wonderousness of ''magic maps". This is what the reviewers use to detect sensitive areas for want of a better explanation. Basically they load up magic map (a government based programme available to us all online just google it) and select creat own area. Then they click on various 'layers' and see what comes up. But with SSSI it's slightly complicated. Because the people that impose and enforce sssi sites may give you permission. In fact it's quite possible they will. If not they may provide a suggested alternate location very near. Or they may refuse.

 

From word of mouth some SSSI officers reply right away and are very helpful but others don't even respond. But that's people. There is a rather good thread knocking around that started when someone asked the same thing. It seemed as though the permission of the SSSI people trumped that of the land owner in some cases and in others it was the other way around. And this comes from the fact that SSSI is not a hard and fast blanket situation. There are within its bounds about 6 levels. From (my wording not theirs) beyond help through improving, up to prestine. It could be a rare snail. An orchid. Or some special moss. But it may be seasonal. So a chat with the SSSI organisation could well be enough. It's very fluid depending on the details. It may take some time to sort out though. Here is a better source of info -

 

https://wiki.Groundspeak.com/display/GEO/United+Kingdom+Land+Areas

In my experience it's easy to get permission for a cache on an SSSI. They are normally very suitable areas for geocaching and people are encouraged to visit (it helps Natural England justify the designation if they can demonstrate that people take an interest).

You do need to give the reviewer details of the permission granted. It might have been via a phone call but you should still have contact details in case Groundspeak have to check.

Further details at

The Wiki. You normally contact the landowner and if they're OK with the cache make sure that they also check with NE.

 

I'd also mention on the cache page that permission has been granted ("Thanks to Quarries Ltd and Natural England for permission to place this cache"). That makes cache seekers confident that their visit will be welcome, and will prevent trouble from anyone anti-caching who assumes that the SSSI shouldn't be used for this purpose.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Happy Humphrey

[+Ant89]

As the Estate owner has granted permission for the cache verbally, you should mention this in a reviewer note on the cache page and provide a contact number for the estate owner so the reviewer may contact them to confirm permission.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Ant89

[Deceangi]

Provide a Name and contact details for the Landowner [Phone Number is sufficient] and that is all the Proof you need to provide. Contact details are required, should there be issues in the future, it provides a imediate route to contacting the person giving permission. This information is confidential, and will not be accessible by anyone but Reviewers and Lackeys. Just make sure you select Reviewer Note as the log type, pre publication

 

To make it clear, it is the Landowner who has to Give Permission, not as some presume the Designating Authority, Natural England, SNHi, Natural Resources Wales (NRW) [formally CCW] unless they actually own the property. The Designating Authority, if they do not own the Land, can only give Approval. The UK Reviewers leave the decision in regards to Approval off the Designating Authority to the Landowner.

 

To make it clear, it is not something we require, only Landowner Permission.

 

The same situation applies to locations Designated as a Nature Reserve, or a Scheduled Monument.

 

In the case of Scheduled Monuments the Designating Authorities are English Heritage, Historic Scotland, CADW.

 

Deci