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Flame: Putting it back where you found it


ExTechOp
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How hard is it to put a cache back where you found it? I've had to now repeatedly relocate some of my caches from inappropriate locations back to where I originally set them.

 

In one case, a magnetic microcache in a very muggle-prone area hidden nicely behind a billboard has repeatedly been moved to the side so that it is completely visible. What, did you feel the quite unmistakable original location was somehow too difficult, and wanted to make things easier for the next cachers?

 

In another case, a magnetic microcache which has a perfectly nice location hidden behind a vehicle guard rail has twice been moved into a narrow metal pipe where it is very easy to push in too deep. I've now stuffed the pipe with a foam rubber wad to prevent anyone from sticking the cache in there, I'll bet the next time someone complains the cache was hard to get into the pipe because of the wad...

 

Also, I've lost count of the times pencils and log holding tubes inside the actual cache container have been swiped.

 

Has geocaching become too much of a "popular" thing, and people no longer have the very basic skills and understanding required to make things work? Or do people have their unsupervised kids do the searching and hiding?

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welcome to the club :-)

you find careless people in all places and in all kinds of hobby or sports,

it is good to talk about it to try to educate people,

when I find bad things, I write about it in my logs,

this way others might see it and learn a thing or two.

 

also you as a CO could try to design your cache so it only fits where it is supposed to be

or hide it the most common way, so cachers can find it and rehide it correctly,

if you get too creative, you just drive some cachers nuts by long search times,

at least you want it to be found and you want to make people happy.

 

a few days agout i found a tiny micro in a large wall of bricks,

those kinds of bricks with many holes, and a whole wall of them !!

after writing in the log and turning arround to put it back,

oh.. where is the correct hole, where I found it..

you see a very good reason why things move a bit, BAD cache location in the first place..

if he put a tiny red dot near the hole, and wrote in the hint, look for red dot

and re-hide near red dot, then it will stay at right place.

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....too much of a "popular" thing and....people no longer have the very basic skills and understanding required

 

You've been caching about the same amount of time that I have. My observation re "people no longer have" is that there have always been those who put a cache back in the quickest, easiest place - or think that they need to "improve" on the location.

 

If that group is say 4% of cachers, and the number of finds on your hides doubles as the sport grows, then the number of times the cache ends up badly placed will double too. No real change in human behavior in geocaching.

 

Frankly, getting a cache properly stowed has always been tougher with micros, especially magnetic micros in the presence of a lot of metal.

 

I watch one for the owner, it's rated wheelchair accessible and is. A really nice camo job on it. Some percentage of cachers feel the need to move from the bottom of the array of things it matches, where a seated person can reach it, to the top, where it shifts to a terrain 4 (climb). This is "better"?!@#*

 

My personal solution is to tether, tether, and tether. I even tether ammo cans where practical. I own only one magnetic hide, and it moves....at least the available space is limited. There's significant difference in the safety of the hide in some locations then others, apparently that isn't within the range of thought of some finders, who leave it full view in front...

Edited by Isonzo Karst
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a few days agout i found a tiny micro in a large wall of bricks,

those kinds of bricks with many holes, and a whole wall of them !!

after writing in the log and turning arround to put it back,

oh.. where is the correct hole, where I found it..

you see a very good reason why things move a bit, BAD cache location in the first place..

if he put a tiny red dot near the hole, and wrote in the hint, look for red dot

and re-hide near red dot, then it will stay at right place.

I disagree. For one thing the red dot would be defacing the property. For another, if you are going to do that, why bother hiding it at all? Sure it would be hard not knowing which hole to put it back in, but you should be paying attention where it came from to begin with. 3 or 4 inches away won't make a difference, it's when the cache is moved 3, 4, or 10 feet away in a spot obviously not where it came from.

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I've had to now repeatedly relocate some of my caches from inappropriate locations back to where I originally set them.

That's the best plan. Only the Cache Owner knows the intention of the hide. One of my caches is rather evil when hidden properly, yet very obvious when carelessly set. When I see a Found log, I go check it, and often need to fix it (it's along my walking route). Either make it absolutely foolproof, or make the time to make adjustments.

 

People don't seem to notice (or care) how a container was hidden. It gets compounded in a group -- I've been handed logs to sign, and open containers, as everyone else is getting back into the car. "Where was this!"

"Somewhere under those leaves over there..."

Edited by kunarion
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Well, I'm not sure that its a new thing, but since we now have a much larger pool of geocachers in general, it stands to reason that we also now have a much larger pool of those that don't put the cache back properly, and therefore a much higher chance that one of them will hit your cache. Stands to reason.

 

But yeah, my experience does match yours. I'm seeing traditional ammo can caches that are left totally exposed to public view (and not just my own caches, either), caches that are not put back the way they were intended or where they were originally hidden.

 

That is especially frustrating when the cammo has been carefully designed to work in only one way. For example, I have one cache that looks like part of a wooden structure. I even added a couple of fake nails to the chunk of wood that houses the cache. I even put a large arrow with directions "THIS SIDE IN". Doesn't matter. Time after time I've checked on it only to find it put in backwards, with the nails in, and hidden from view.

 

It is more than simply frustrating, though, when thoughtless rehiding causes a cache to go missing. Don't be "that guy"! :rolleyes:

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>I disagree. For one thing the red dot would be defacing the property.

 

you are right, put in a tiny stick or something to mark the spot is offcourse smarter,

it was just an example, but a very bad one, sorry it missed its point

of marking the return it correct somehow.

imagine 100 visitors, just missing 2-3 holes each time ?

after a year the CO can not find it at all,

that is why I think it was smart if the CO marked the correct spot somehow

since visitors will not do it.

 

I rather compromize the hide out a little bit, and have it returned correctly every time.

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How hard is it to put a cache back where you found it? I've had to now repeatedly relocate some of my caches from inappropriate locations back to where I originally set them.

 

In one case, a magnetic microcache in a very muggle-prone area hidden nicely behind a billboard has repeatedly been moved to the side so that it is completely visible. What, did you feel the quite unmistakable original location was somehow too difficult, and wanted to make things easier for the next cachers?

 

In another case, a magnetic microcache which has a perfectly nice location hidden behind a vehicle guard rail has twice been moved into a narrow metal pipe where it is very easy to push in too deep. I've now stuffed the pipe with a foam rubber wad to prevent anyone from sticking the cache in there, I'll bet the next time someone complains the cache was hard to get into the pipe because of the wad...

 

Also, I've lost count of the times pencils and log holding tubes inside the actual cache container have been swiped.

 

Has geocaching become too much of a "popular" thing, and people no longer have the very basic skills and understanding required to make things work? Or do people have their unsupervised kids do the searching and hiding?

 

You littered to help your guardrail cache stay put? :blink: :blink: :blink:

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It's not a new phenomena. I've been encountering this since I started placing caches back in 2001

 

I think it comes from down to a few scenarios:

 

- Numbers hounds who are in so much of a hurry to get to the next cache they can't be bothered taking the time to rehide properly

- Large groups, where one person finds it, the log is passed around to sign, and someone who didn't actually find it is charged with replacing it.

- Dislodged from original hiding spot by wind, rain, animals and finders had no idea where it originally went

- Clueless cachers.

Edited by briansnat
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I think there is too much emphasis on putting caches back "as found", as compared to "hiding back well".

 

Unless you are the first one there, or if the hint says exactly how it is hidden, you really don't have any idea if the previous finder hid it back as the CO intended it. If an ammo box is found out in the open, many people will just leave it there. :blink:

 

I would rather see the cache migrate because the cacher tried to rehide it well, rather than be worried if they did it right. "Found cache out in the open, didn't know how it was to be hidden so I left it there."

 

Hiding it back in the wrong spot is much better than having it go missing. The more people that have found it increases the likelyhood of it being moved. All it takes is for one person to break the chain.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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Well, I'm not sure that its a new thing, but since we now have a much larger pool of geocachers in general, it stands to reason that we also now have a much larger pool of those that don't put the cache back properly, and therefore a much higher chance that one of them will hit your cache. Stands to reason.

 

In my time caching, I've deduced that one of THE laziest cachers in terms of rehiding is also one of our most well-known, well liked and prolific within our area. It's not who you think..

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So this is certainly a valid complaint, and I support encouraging people to do better. But, as always, keep in mind that in some cases it could just be an honest mistake, so don't assume it's intentional laziness even though it might often be.

 

I've actually come to be amused by my first cache, a simple nano on a sign post. It's obvious no matter where you put it, so I'm not too concerned when it seems to be in a different place every time I walk by. I decided one move was actually a big improvement, so I now consider that the official location, even though I rarely actually move it myself.

 

There's a puzzle cache near Princeton, NJ (Always F.T.F.) that I thought was cute but didn't have a chance to seek when I was there: it tells you to move the cache from the guardrail post you found it at to the post either one to the right or one to the left, so the cache moves up and down the guardrail at the whim of previous seekers. Now that's accepting the unavoidable. I was really annoyed when I realized we'd driven right past it before I saw it on-line.

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I did it myself this weekend. I was hunting a cache in a large rock formation. Hint said look about 12 feet up. After 45 minutes I was about to give up because there were literally hundreds of potential hiding places. I read the log of the last to find (it was in May of 2011, there were several DNFs since). He said he found it on the ground partially covered by leaves and replaced it in what he thought was the original hiding place. In his log he said was not confident it would stay put.

 

Well obviously it didn't stay put because I found it on the ground partially buried by leaves, about 30 feet from the rock face. I assume wind or water dislodged and washed it downhill where I found it. I had an idea about where it was probably hidden but I wasn't certain. Even if I was correct,it obviously had trouble staying where it belonged, so I lodged it in the rocks about eye level 6 feet below its probable hiding place.

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what can you do Briansnat ?

you did your best, found it, wow very good,

and hid it the bast place you could, and explained all about it in the log,

it is up to the CO to fix it, only he know the correct spot, but someone need to inform him something needs a bit of service :-)

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Well, I'm not sure that its a new thing, but since we now have a much larger pool of geocachers in general, it stands to reason that we also now have a much larger pool of those that don't put the cache back properly, and therefore a much higher chance that one of them will hit your cache. Stands to reason.

 

In my time caching, I've deduced that one of THE laziest cachers in terms of rehiding is also one of our most well-known, well liked and prolific within our area. It's not who you think..

 

Whew! I thought you were talking about me!

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... a magnetic microcache in a very muggle-prone area hidden nicely behind a billboard ...

... a magnetic microcache which has a perfectly nice location hidden behind a vehicle guard rail ...

Do your real caches (that, you know, have room for stuff) fare any better?

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Well, I'm not sure that its a new thing, but since we now have a much larger pool of geocachers in general, it stands to reason that we also now have a much larger pool of those that don't put the cache back properly, and therefore a much higher chance that one of them will hit your cache. Stands to reason.

 

In my time caching, I've deduced that one of THE laziest cachers in terms of rehiding is also one of our most well-known, well liked and prolific within our area. It's not who you think..

 

Yeah. There's one local who never hides it back well enough. I think he leaves the edge peeking out to make it easier. But it's supposed to be behind the rock to keep the bears from chewing on it! Please put the rock back.

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Too many times when I check on one of my urban caches, I can't find the stinking thing. I can't find it one day, four people find it the next day. I try again with no luck, another 4 people find it. Very frustrating. I rarely find them in the exact spot I hid them. On one cache, I had replaced it since there were 3 or 4 DNF's and then a week later I get a log stating they found 2 caches at GZ. :blink:

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I think there is too much emphasis on putting caches back "as found", as compared to "hiding back well".

 

Unless you are the first one there, or if the hint says exactly how it is hidden, you really don't have any idea if the previous finder hid it back as the CO intended it. If an ammo box is found out in the open, many people will just leave it there. :blink:

 

I would rather see the cache migrate because the cacher tried to rehide it well, rather than be worried if they did it right. "Found cache out in the open, didn't know how it was to be hidden so I left it there."

 

Hiding it back in the wrong spot is much better than having it go missing. The more people that have found it increases the likelyhood of it being moved. All it takes is for one person to break the chain.

 

So true. We aren't using survey grade GPS units. A handheld unit should get you to within 30' feet of the cache...not inches or millimeters. It's almost like they think that if you don't rehide the cache at the exact inch of where they found it, the next seekers will be bumbling around the woods, mystified that the cache isn't right at 0 feet.

 

If you find a cache exposed and you don't know where it was originally hidden, as long as it's not a custom camo (and that doesn't mean camo tape or camo paint), look around and rehide it somewhere within a 20' circle of where you found it. Odds are it'll be close enough to the posted coordinates.

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I think there is too much emphasis on putting caches back "as found", as compared to "hiding back well".

 

Unless you are the first one there, or if the hint says exactly how it is hidden, you really don't have any idea if the previous finder hid it back as the CO intended it. If an ammo box is found out in the open, many people will just leave it there. :blink:

 

I would rather see the cache migrate because the cacher tried to rehide it well, rather than be worried if they did it right. "Found cache out in the open, didn't know how it was to be hidden so I left it there."

 

Hiding it back in the wrong spot is much better than having it go missing. The more people that have found it increases the likelyhood of it being moved. All it takes is for one person to break the chain.

 

So true. We aren't using survey grade GPS units. A handheld unit should get you to within 30' feet of the cache...not inches or millimeters. It's almost like they think that if you don't rehide the cache at the exact inch of where they found it, the next seekers will be bumbling around the woods, mystified that the cache isn't right at 0 feet.

 

If you find a cache exposed and you don't know where it was originally hidden, as long as it's not a custom camo (and that doesn't mean camo tape or camo paint), look around and rehide it somewhere within a 20' circle of where you found it. Odds are it'll be close enough to the posted coordinates.

One other thing, if you're going to do that, you should definitely email the CO to let them know where exactly you relocated it. The idea is to hide it from the next cacher, not from the owner. ^_^

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I put out my very first cache on July 10 and I lucked out and it was published within an hour of submitting it, so it's been active for 4 days.

 

When I placed it, I put it about 3 feet high to make it kid friendly.

 

The latest person to find the cache noted tonight that they found the cache 7 feet up the tree!!!

The hint for the cache indicates what height it's supposed to be at, so the cacher placed it at a more usable height.

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Too many times when I check on one of my urban caches, I can't find the stinking thing. I can't find it one day, four people find it the next day. I try again with no luck, another 4 people find it. Very frustrating. I rarely find them in the exact spot I hid them. On one cache, I had replaced it since there were 3 or 4 DNF's and then a week later I get a log stating they found 2 caches at GZ. :blink:

 

Now that's funny!!! :laughing: :laughing:

 

I spent over an hour helping someone look for their cache recently. There were three of us looking and we didn't find it. Okay, well it is true that he adopted it out and the new guy seems to have moved it. But it's also true these two DNF'ed the cache many times before I came along to "help."

 

I have had cache owners ask me where I found their cache so they could do maintenance on it.

 

I found one cache in the dark by the light of my phone. I put that in the logs and the owner emailed and asked me how the heck I did that when he couldn't even find the thing in the day.

 

I had one cache moved once. The person logging it said it needed to be hidden better. I was indignant. What was wrong with the spot I picked??!!!??? Then I went to check on it. Within the one year since I had seen it last, the tree filled in the hole in the tree the cache was in. The tree had shoved the cache out of it.

I sheepishly thanked the person who moved it for me.

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